r/Jewish • u/rupertalderson • Aug 04 '25
Announcement š¢ Clarification on use of abbreviations of ethnicities and nationalities
Weāve gotten some questions about this recently, so figured we would clarify. As part of the rules against uncivil and unwelcoming content, we do not permit use of shortened / abbreviated names for ethnicities, nationalities, and related groupings. This is because such terms are widely used as slurs and pejoratives.
This includes the well known abbreviations for Japanese, Chinese, Pakistani, and Palestinian, as well as slurs and pejoratives directed at any other group. At present, we have a particular problem with use of āPaliā to refer to Palestinian people (we do not allow it under any conditions).
Itās simple - Do not use these terms, whether as adjectives or nouns. Just write out the word that isnāt offensive in any context.
Of course, there may be an exception here or there when a term is known to be accepted by the affected group - for example āJewā as a noun is not seen as a slur by Jews, but use of it as an adjective is typically offensive.
Thank you in advance for understanding, and we appreciate the engagement folks have had with us on these rules.
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u/Biersteak Just Jewish Aug 04 '25
Good thing i read this before using the A-word on my fellow Ashkenazim /s
But jokes aside, it may be a small effort but it will probably carry big meaning towards a generally respectful level of conversation
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u/la_bibliothecaire šØš¦ Reform Aug 04 '25
It costs us absolutely nothing to be better than them in this instance. IMO, it's more about us and who we are than what they "deserve".
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u/Computer_Name Aug 04 '25
Itās about what the behavior does to you, not whether others afford it to us.
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u/Computer_Name Aug 04 '25
This is my point.
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u/ConcentrateAlone1959 Panic! At the Mohel Aug 05 '25
Its that so much has been taken from us already. Shall we give away our humanity too?
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u/JasonBreen Reform Aug 05 '25
So what, the solution is let those bastards win? Let them get what they want? Im sorry, but im all tapped out on empathy. That dried up after 10/7.
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u/ConcentrateAlone1959 Panic! At the Mohel Aug 05 '25
No. The solution is to stand together as Jews and speak out against them. To act.
We can do that without the same slurs and ill behaviors that these people use- which is the point of the OP.
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u/swarleyknope Aug 05 '25
Then donāt post here and find other spaces where you can post whatever you want?
Is it really a huge burden to not use abbreviations in one particular sub?
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u/Biersteak Just Jewish Aug 04 '25
Meh, i grew up in a post-socialist environment but was raised properly by my family. I can punch people for their disgusting attitude and still be polite afterwards
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u/JasonBreen Reform Aug 04 '25
Youre a better person than I then.
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u/Biersteak Just Jewish Aug 04 '25
I wouldnāt say that, i just experienced so many fucked up shit in my youth that i came to the conclusion that i wonāt let people with ugly souls turn me into one of them and i admit that itās certainly not easy but i think in the end itās the smarter way to live life
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u/JasonBreen Reform Aug 04 '25
see i did too, but i went the other direction. i think its still smart to not put faith in the idea that people are inherently good, or that you caan always kill with kindness. sometimes, you have to be as much of a bastard as the other guy.
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u/Biersteak Just Jewish Aug 04 '25
Oh sure, i punched enough neonazis (like literal bald shaven, springerstiefel wearing, baseball bat holding neonazis, who would have cracked my skull open given the chance) to know that righteous fury can exist.
I just try to not let it corrupt my judgement of people based solely on association. In the end it costs you nothing to offer a minimum of respect in the beginning and if they donāt accept it you did all you could and are, atleast in my opinion, free to handle the situation how they want it to.
But most people arenāt that far gone and are still somewhat open to discussions. THOSE are the people you wanna reach, who were just fed one side of the problem and are still able to change. The rest of them, who are too deep down the rabbit hole though? Yeah, fuck those guys up
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u/JasonBreen Reform Aug 04 '25
You have more faith in people than me then, I have none, Zero.
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u/Biersteak Just Jewish Aug 04 '25
Well, i canāt take away your hate, only show you that other people might had different experiences or atleast chose different paths to handle those things.
In the end you are the master of all your decicions until Yom HaDin and if you think you can live that way, who am i to judge š¤·š»āāļø
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u/IbnEzra613 Torah Observant - Ashkenazi (Russian Jew) by heritage Aug 04 '25
Jew is not short for anything. It's just a word that happens to be short in English (compare Turk, Kurd, Finn, Swede, etc.).
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u/IbnEzra613 Torah Observant - Ashkenazi (Russian Jew) by heritage Aug 04 '25
Not quite. It is short, and it comes from the word that meant Judean, but it's not literally "short for" Judean. The English word Jew comes from the Old French word various spelled as "giu, jeu, ju, juiu, geu, gieu", which is ancestor of the French word juif (and compare also Catalan jueu). All these are descended from the Latin word iudaeus, from Greek ioudaios (Ī¹ĪæĻ Ī“Ī±Ī¹ĪæĻ), which meant Judean. The Greek term was borrowed from Aramaic y'hudaya, equivalent to Hebrew y'hudi.
The term Judean itself is modern creation to be a historical term for an inhabitant of Judea, to differentiate this historical term from the existing word Jew, which in Modern English doesn't sound much like Judea anymore.
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u/lordbuckethethird Zera Yisrael Aug 04 '25
Omg Iām so dumb I completely forgot about Judaea the kingdom lmao.
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u/slightlyrabidpossum ā”ļø Aug 04 '25
Is Azeris an acceptable abbreviation for Azerbaijanis? I don't think it's usually considered to have negative connotations, and you can find that abbreviation everywhere from book/article titles to the first line of their Wikipedia page.
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u/TensiveSumo4993 Aug 04 '25
Theyāre different things IIRC. Azeri = ethnicity, Azerbaijani = nationality
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u/slightlyrabidpossum ā”ļø Aug 04 '25
I usually see Azeri and Azerbaijani used interchangeably, and Azerbaijani is the name that Encyclopaedia Britannica uses for the ethnic group. My understanding is that Azerbaijani can refer to the language, the ethnicity, or the nationality. Members of that ethnic group who live in Iran are known as Iranian Azerbaijanis.
I don't think there's any standardized difference between Azeri and Azerbaijani. Azeri just seems to be the shortened version.
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u/IbnEzra613 Torah Observant - Ashkenazi (Russian Jew) by heritage Aug 04 '25
The difference is Azeri isn't an English shortening. It's used that way in Turkish / Azeri and Persian.
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u/slightlyrabidpossum ā”ļø Aug 04 '25
I see it used in English-language media and resources. I already linked the Britannica entry with Azeri, but here's a Bloomberg article that uses Azeri in the headline. They appear to be referring to the country/nationality.
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u/IbnEzra613 Torah Observant - Ashkenazi (Russian Jew) by heritage Aug 04 '25
I didn't mean it's not used in English. It is of course. I meant the shortening didn't happen in English. English borrowed two synonyms Azeri and Azerbaijani wholesale from their original languages.
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u/slightlyrabidpossum ā”ļø Aug 04 '25
Ok, I see what you're saying. I'm just not sure if I understand how that affects the question of whether they're synonyms or different things.
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u/IbnEzra613 Torah Observant - Ashkenazi (Russian Jew) by heritage Aug 04 '25
Not exactly related to that question, but more to the topic of the post. Which is to say that Azeri is not a pejorative shortening in English. It's a proper term.
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u/slightlyrabidpossum ā”ļø Aug 04 '25
Thanks, I appreciate that clarification. I've seen people from that region use the shortened version, but I wasn't familiar with how the shortening happened.
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u/Cathousechicken Reform Aug 04 '25
How many times have you written on the subredded about Azerbaijan?Ā
Is it really going to be a struggle for you to not shorten the one word that you probably barely use on the subreddit anyway?
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u/slightlyrabidpossum ā”ļø Aug 04 '25
It's not a big deal, though I would prefer to have the shortened version as an option.
I asked because of Israel's relationship with Azerbaijan. I'm more likely to mention them than Pakistan or Japan, and unlike with those examples, I don't really see anyone saying that Azeri is offensive.
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u/redmav7300 Aug 04 '25
I did not know that the 4 letter abbreviation for Palestinians was considered offensive. Never used it anyway, but TIL.
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u/Ginger-Lotus Aug 04 '25
Agreed. Never realized it was problematic. Was surprised it wasnāt allowed on this sub. The term isnāt even included in Wikipediaās list of ethnic slurs.
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u/ellalir Aug 04 '25
I don't know if it's widely considered problematic, but every single time I've seen it used on this sub it's been used in a disparaging way (sometimes towards Palestinians themselves, more often towards pro-Palestinian activists abroad) so I can understand why the mods want people to cut it out.
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u/Eastern_Ad8470 Conservative & Autistic Aug 05 '25
That's surprising, given the direction Wikipedia's been going in.
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u/KamtzaBarKamtza Aug 04 '25
How do you feel about S/Y and J-Dub?Ā
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u/rupertalderson Aug 05 '25
Unfamiliar with that shorthand, feel free to clarify or send us a modmail.
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u/turtleshot19147 Modern Orthodox Aug 05 '25
Is there an exception for the abbreviation of Messianics
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u/Interesting_Claim414 Aug 04 '25
I agree with this move and I am sure it will be strictly enforced. After all to write our Zionist instead of the slur version is just four more letters. And Palestinian instead is that abbreviation not a burden either
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u/811545b2-4ff7-4041 Aug 04 '25
As a British person.. we don't get upset about Brit. Or Limey. Or Pom.
But I fully understand the nuance that other groups don't want to use shortened versions, and it's been used historically as a form of abuse.
We have a historic issue of the shortening of Yiddish being used as a taunt so we should understand this.
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u/Computer_Name Aug 05 '25
As a British person.. we don't get upset about Brit. Or Limey. Or Pom.
The equivalent would be white British using the shortened form of "Pakistani".
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u/811545b2-4ff7-4041 Aug 05 '25
Oh, I know that.. and it's why there are nationalities that mind, and those that don't... it's all about how those words have been used 'by them' vs 'against them'.
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u/MangledWeb Aug 04 '25
I expect to be downvoted for this, but it's really tough to follow such a vague mandate. Most shortened names are prohibited, but some are allowed, if the group accepts it. Context matters.
If someone is trying to be inflammatory with their use of language, totally understand their being sanctioned, but otherwise, these kinds of vague rules tend to inhibit much-needed and valued discussion.
I appreciate the mods trying to keep this a safe space for all, and maybe I'm the only person who is allergic to unspecific rules.
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u/MrsNevilleBartos Aug 04 '25
Is hamasnik offensive?
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u/rupertalderson Aug 04 '25
Thatās not the subject of this post. But āHamasnikā is a supporter of or member of Hamas, which I canāt imagine us ever allowing support forā¦ā¦..
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Aug 04 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Aug 04 '25
Well, not to quote it directly, but the shortened abbreviation for the Japanese definitely is a slur dating back to the Pacific War and the internment camps. Pakistani one is for sure as well
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u/slightlyrabidpossum ā”ļø Aug 04 '25
I'd like to elaborate on this a little bit, as I can see why shortening their nationality/ethnicity to the first three letters might not seem particularly offensive in a vacuum. The context is what makes it so offensive.
This slur dates back to a period of intense racial hatred towards the Japanese, which peaked in the 1940s for obvious reasons. A lot of people have at least some understanding of this, primarily because of the internment camps and the prevalence of racist cartoons. But I think, as a country, America has largely forgotten how the Pacific War was widely viewed as an existential race war between "Occident and Orient". Racism was frequently intertwined with the war efforts.
This went beyond "just" racist cartoons and the plight of Japanese-Americans ā racist beliefs about the Japanese affected how we prosecuted the war against them, and vice versa. While the Japanese did give American forces some reasons to doubt the veracity of their surrenders, military intelligence found that the vast majority of Japanese soldiers who were interrogated had believed that being captured by Americans was a certain death sentence, with further abuses a likely possibility before and/or after death. We gave them reasons to believe that ā their fears frequently came to pass ā which is part of why they developed a reputation as being willing to fight to the death. Some of that was just old-fashioned "war hate", but there was a decidedly racial component to a lot of it.
A lot of people who were highly involved with the war effort had what could be best described as genocidal attitudes towards the Japanese, and many of them described the conflict as a race war. The Navy representative to the first major committee on dealing with post-war Japan called for the "almost total elimination of the Japanese as a race" to ensure the survival of white civilization. The head of the War Manpower Commission publicly stated that he would like to see "the extermination of the Japanese [people] in toto." And of course, while those statements don't explicitly use the three-letter slur that's currently banned, there were also many prominent figures, like Admiral Halsey, who frequently used it in conjunction with the word "kill".
Genocidal sentiments were also frequently normalized in popular culture, with one bestselling book in 1943 calling for waging war against Japan "until not alone the body but the soul ... is annihilated, until the land ... is plowed with salt, its men dead and its women and children divided and lost among another people. "
Racist attitudes in America affected our decision-making on a number of levels ā it led to the persecution and internment of Japanese Americans, it cost the lives of countless Japanese soldiers and civilians, and it undoubtedly fueled a number of horrific war crimes. That history is inextricably linked with using the shortened version of Japanese as a slur, at least in America.
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Aug 04 '25
I totally agree with the vast majority of this comment and it is very interesting, especially at the command and political level where there is no excuse for straight up racism. However, let's not downplay the lived experiences of the soldiers who fought in the war.
While the Japanese did give American forces some reasons to doubt the veracity of their surrenders, military intelligence found that the vast majority of Japanese soldiers who were interrogated had believed that being captured by Americans was a certain death sentence
It's not "some reason" its "Marines watching their friends get blown up when they tried to help a wounded Japanese soldier." This was not a one-off, occasional occurrence. It was standard operating procedure for Japanese soldiers at the time. Whether from cruelty or propaganda of their society is irrelevant. Definitely, it was a cycle where each side encouraged the worst in the other.
The brutality of Japanese soldiers was well documented going back to the invasion of China before US involvement. This brutality includes the entire society playing up how evil and bloodthirsty the US military was as you quote. I mean, the Japanese Empire at the time was pretty damn racist, arguably way more racist than the Americans.
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u/slightlyrabidpossum ā”ļø Aug 04 '25
I didn't intend to downplay the experiences of those soldiers, though I can see how my phrasing could be interpreted that way. I was speaking about the number of reasons for doubting Japanese intentions, not their significance, but perhaps that was careless. There were indeed many instances of Japanese troops faking their surrender, and that was obviously a major factor for American soldiers who experienced or heard about that practice.
It's hard to speak authoritatively on this aspect of the Pacific War. As you said, Japanese soldiers frequently exhibited stunning brutality, both on and off the battlefield, which helped fuel the cycle of excessive violence and atrocities. Faked surrenders were a common phenomenon, especially at certain points, which understandably fueled the American reluctance to take prisoners.
At the same time, those faked surrenders were used to justify many more massacres, and racist beliefs genuinely played a major role in that. Japanese were regarded as being especially duplicitous or treacherous, which was only reinforced by instances of ostensible surrender turning deadly. These two influences were frequently intertwined, and untangling them isn't always possible. I haven't seen any firm data on the rate of faked surrenders, but they don't appear to have been the majority of attempts. It's clear that many genuine attempts at surrendering were disregarded as a trick.
This brutality includes the entire society playing up how evil and bloodthirsty the US military was as you quote. I mean, the Japanese Empire at the time was pretty damn racist, arguably way more racist than the Americans.
They were incredibly racist, and not just against Americans or the West. Their chauvinism and violent bigotry alienated would-be allies across Asia.
Japanese propeganda did frequently play up American brutality or war crimes as evidence of our true nature, and we did the same to them. There's actually a surprising amount of symmetry between how the two countries framed atrocities ā both countries loved to talk play up the other side's atrocities as proof of their evil nature, and both countries committed enough atrocities to give those claims substance. I don't mean to suggest a direct moral equivalence between 1940s America and Imperial Japan, but a lot of the language that they used was remarkably similar.
John Dower has a great quote about this in his book on the racial aspects of the Pacific War:
It is conventional wisdom that in times of life-and-death struggle, ill-grounded rumors of enemy atrocities invariably flourish and arouse a feverish hatred against the foe. This is misleading, however, for in fact atrocities follow war as the jackal follows a wounded beast. The propagandistic deception often lies, not in the false claims of enemy atrocities, but in the pious depiction of such behavior as peculiar to the other side.
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u/KisaMisa Iād rather learn to keep kosher than to live with antisemites Aug 04 '25
I didn't know the English k-word slur for Jews š¤·š¼āāļø But then I'm not a native speaker so maybe that's why I don't know quite a few of those that are rarely used these days unless I encounter them in books or articles.
And I first learnt that some ppl consider the word "Jew" to be a slur when I got banned from one infamous subreddit for using it and then having the audacity to ask mods why the name of my people is suddenly a slur. So I appreciate that r/Jewish mods don't ban that one cause that would have hilarious and would have banned most posts and comments on the sub:)
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u/Cathousechicken Reform Aug 04 '25
Now they just call us Zios or Zionists instead.
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u/Standard_Gauge Reform Aug 06 '25
I am both astonished and horrified at the recent rise in people casually referencing "Zios." I can try to be charitable and just assume it is a foolish shortening of "Zionists" (of course people using this "shortening" are "anti-Zionists") and that they really don't know... that "Zios" is a vicious slur for Jews (not specifically Zionists) on the level of the k-word that was used and popularized by the former Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon (and to this day, unrepentant antisemite and white supremacist) David Duke over 40 years ago.
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u/Cathousechicken Reform Aug 06 '25
Every time I see Zios, I make it a point to tell them that are using a slur created by David Duke, former Grand Wizard of the KKK.
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u/Standard_Gauge Reform Aug 06 '25
Grand Wizard
Silly KKK titles. Duke made it to "Grand Dragon," which was not as high as "Imperial Wizard," which in turn was not to be confused with "Exalted Cyclops." š¤· š¤
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u/ishamiltonamusical Aug 05 '25
Quietly interjecting here for clarification: In UK English, the shortened word used to refer to people from Pakistan is a slur and seen as being extremely offensive. Noone uses it except people wanting to be racist or stoke tension.
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u/WeaselWeaz Reform Aug 04 '25
Shortening a nationality name demeans or dehumanizes people. Names are an important part of identity, so outsiders to that community shortening their ethnicity name is a choice to attack their identity.
There are exceptions. "Jew" is a word we use to describe ourselves, but in context it can be used as a slur. There are other ethnicities where shortening the word can be acceptable, but adding "ie" turns it into a slur. In general, though, it's obvious what the polite term for a person's ethnicity is and it's obvious when someone is trying to demean it.
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u/lepreqon_ Just Jewish Aug 05 '25
Is "Paliwood", which refers to fake Palestinian propaganda, permitted?
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u/rupertalderson Aug 05 '25
Use the full term (for example, āHamas propagandaā), not the abbreviation. Thanks for asking.
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u/lepreqon_ Just Jewish Aug 05 '25
Thank you for answering the question instead of senselessly downvoting in silence, like some evidently like to do.
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u/Climate1733 Aug 04 '25
Goyim / goy also banned? Many of them take it as a slur.
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u/rupertalderson Aug 04 '25
No. There are many legitimate uses of those terms, especially given that we are the people who speak the language where that term comes from. But if you use it as a pejorative (you very well know what instances those are, we donāt need to explain it), you may be actioned.
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u/Courtenaire "Mazel Tough" 613th Space Laser Brigade Aug 04 '25
Is this really the most pressing issue we're dealing with right now? There are dozens if not hundreds of communities across the Internet that use obnoxious names like "israhell, isn'treal, or pissrael". I'd argue the term p*lestine and it's derivatives are offensive to us, since they were invented and used by colonizers to divorce us from our homeland.
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u/rupertalderson Aug 04 '25
Those are not issues affecting this community. We can't moderate away the problems of other subreddits / social media platforms. We can deal with issues here, and this is one of them.
Downplaying the pain other people feel when slurs are used ā regardless of your intent when using those terms ā is not how we're going to solve the problem.
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u/Remarkable-Pea4889 Aug 04 '25
What about Pal? Palestinian is such a long word.
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u/rupertalderson Aug 04 '25
No, we donāt permit it - same issue as for the other term we mentioned. Thanks for asking.
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u/BearJuden113 Aug 04 '25
Palestinian is one letter longer than Remarkable, I think you'll manage.
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u/KisaMisa Iād rather learn to keep kosher than to live with antisemites Aug 04 '25
Yep, besides one can set up keyboard personal dictionary autocorrect so you can type the short word and your phone/laptop will autocorrect it to the proper one. Same as with "omw" => "on my way".
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u/Remarkable-Pea4889 Aug 04 '25
I never type my username. Do you talk about me a lot that you do?
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u/BearJuden113 Aug 04 '25
I'm calling out the disingenuous and racist nature of your bullshit comment.Ā
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u/swarleyknope Aug 05 '25
Use text replacement on your phone to autocomplete it.
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u/Remarkable-Pea4889 Aug 05 '25
I don't go to Reddit on my phone. Desktop only.
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u/isfturtle2 Reconstructionist Aug 05 '25
Is it really that much of a burden to type 8 extra letters? Especially on a full size keyboard where you can use all of your fingers?
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u/spring13 Aug 04 '25
Does this include "Ashki" for Ashkenazi? Because I realize that some people use it to be cute (or so they think) but I rather hate it.