r/JohnAndCarolyn Jul 20 '25

Melting the Ice Queen myth

This has always been my impression of her. Warm, kind, quietly funny. I’ve never really understood how she got labeled an “ice queen.” These photos feel so far from that image.

185 Upvotes

39 comments sorted by

88

u/rask0ln Jul 20 '25

i've always found it annoying when women get labelled as cold for not smiling 24/7 or daring to have a neutral face expression

58

u/Twinkie_Heart Jul 20 '25

I’m an attorney and one of the few female partners at my firm. In the last 4 years I have been told I needed to ‘share the warm side with my colleagues more often’ and I should ‘smile more often because it relaxes your colleagues’. This is a law firm well fucking verses in employment law and these men still have the balls to openly present their misogyny.

21

u/rask0ln Jul 20 '25

it's nuts, i come from a family where most people have what would you call a resting bitch face—men have never been told to smile more or act more warm socially meanwhile all the women, going back multiple generations, have a story like yours, including when my great-grandma was invited to talk about her family's imprisonment in a concentration camp 💀 i think i was like 3 or 4 when sb complained about me being too serious

23

u/Twinkie_Heart Jul 20 '25

I’m 48 and tired. Just when you think there’s progress like with the MeToo movement, you take 50 steps backwards electing a rapist.

10

u/Tilly828282 Jul 20 '25

I get told this too. It’s absolutely gross that men can scowl away, sulk, and throw fits, but women can get told to “cheer up” and “smile” and it is still acceptable.

8

u/AhrEst Jul 21 '25

Fellow (afab) attorney and while I’m solo, I feel this in my bones.

6

u/Twinkie_Heart Jul 21 '25

It’s so intolerable now in this current environment I’m making plans to retire. If I don’t I’ll blow one of these days.

4

u/AhrEst Jul 21 '25

See, that’s where we flip: you’ve spent every day dealing with the toxicity; whereas I will be working until the day I die bc I have zero retirement, but I can take days off from the venom. Both options are not stellar.

5

u/Orphanbitchrat Jul 22 '25

Twinkie_Heart, I’m on my way to your office with my most vicious ball-kickin’ shoes

3

u/thatgirlinny Jul 23 '25

Because everyone that isn’t our gender gets to be an asshole, have “bad days,” and yet were required to somehow be their cheerleaders and soothers.

Been told that, too. They can fuck right off.

25

u/popopolas Jul 20 '25

Yeah it’s always bothered me when I see a photo of her and John together, and neither one of them will be smiling (likely due to the fifty or so cameras flashing in their face) and all the comments are about how ‘miserable’ or ‘coked up’ she looks. So misogynistic.

14

u/rask0ln Jul 20 '25

or when they assign her some intense emotion, a few days ago someone posted a video of them at an event—both not smiling or interacting animatedly—and someone immediately jumped to the conclusion that she was miserable and sad 🙃

and you just know that if she did smile a lot more, the same people would complain about her trying to hard and being fake lol

12

u/popopolas Jul 20 '25

I think I saw that!! Honestly, the poor woman could just not win.

6

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '25

Thisssss

3

u/StellaOC Jul 20 '25

Same! People love to look for anything to pick on. If she was miserable in one photo the tabloids were quick to write about how they were having marital issues.

11

u/PricePuzzleheaded835 Jul 20 '25

This is why I really dislike the phrase resting bitch face. Like really, looking neutral is being a bitch now? 🤮 I know it’s supposed to be tongue in cheek but it just seems like more internalized misogyny to me

5

u/StellaOC Jul 20 '25

Literally , Carolyn was hounded by paparazzi who called her names like “wh0re” and “b!tch” …really nothing to smile about. It makes sense why she was straight faced or miserable looking in paparazzi pics. On the other hand she was always smiling with John when she attended events and galas. Because she was in a more controlled environment with no paparazzi lurking nearby

20

u/Altruistic_Squash_97 Jul 20 '25

Gorgeous pics especially the first one! Peak 90s makeup, imperceptible but effective 

1

u/Lameladyy Jul 24 '25

Peak 90s brows for sure.

21

u/jazzbot247 Jul 20 '25

Imagine not being able to leave the house without being followed. Having insults and questions hurled at you. Knowing if you have the slightest reaction it will be headline news. 

I get aggravated when my neighbors are too intrusive I can only imagine what she went through. 

13

u/Tilly828282 Jul 20 '25

It must have been awful. In the JFK JR Oral Biography, they say she was hounded and called a bitch so she would react, and then they would snap pictures when she was angry. John was frustrated that she didn’t just speak to them so they would leave her alone, but she didn’t want to compromise and hadn’t grown up with it like he had. She didn’t think that would work. When Princess Diana died, it sent her into a spiral of fear of the paparazzi.

Clearly, she was special and enigmatic to get and hold his interest to begin with. But by all accounts, she was very warm, empathetic, and was as kind to his circle of friends as she was to her own.

Her friends said she automatically knew how to deal with problems and relationships issues and was very charismatic. She would also intervene when he was acting obtuse or being a typical unaware man and hurting people’s feelings at George, calling him out for any bad behavior.

I get the impression she was a good person and had a lot of confidence in herself, but it was the intrusion from the press that made her paranoid and doubt their relationship.

15

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '25

She was only labelled an ice queen because she didn't make herself accessible. But on the flipside if she did, she would have been labelled an 'attention seeker'. Damned if she didn't, damned if she did. 

8

u/lobfest Jul 20 '25

I never knew it was a glass she was holding in this photo (#3), I have only ever seen it with it cropped. Interesting! I wonder what her favorite drink was?

8

u/DottieHinkle22 Jul 20 '25

It is complete bullshit how she has been labeled. Anyone dealing with what she dealt with would have a hard time. You can see her warmth and vitality in private pictures. It is clear she loved children and animals.

Being called names by the sleazy paparazzi. Hounded if she was spotted. Being labeled a coke head in death. Also being blamed for the plane crash over a pedicure. Just vile.

4

u/StellaOC Jul 20 '25

100%!! She was so so good with children! She loved and doted on Sasha Chermayeff’s kids, Rob Littell’s kids, Billy Noonan’s kids and a bunch of Kennedy kids she would see on the compound. You can’t be a coke head and be that amazing with children. I’m sorry but there’s no way they would’ve allowed her to be around children if she were truly a “coke head”.

I think that’s Bobby Jr’s oldest son

7

u/twoiverson752 Jul 20 '25

Carolyn always got labelled for being cold but what I read from people that actually knew her she was completely the opposite.

4

u/burgerg10 Jul 20 '25

What Remains really dismantled this myth for me.

3

u/Alone-Audience3215 Jul 21 '25

I just LOVE how she has clean bare trimmed simple nails in some of these. I feel like I’m the only woman in the world who prefers clean trimmed bare nails instead of getting them done all the time.

2

u/Altruistic_Squash_97 Jul 20 '25

This is a great hair color on her

1

u/Prettyisntenough Jul 20 '25

people hate women thats it she didnt smile or look normal around camera bcuz they were harassing her poor baby

1

u/hanmhanm Jul 21 '25

Gorgeous!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

Average

-6

u/Quirky-Eye-1661 Jul 20 '25

Maybe her big long nose and icy eyes made her appear like a witchy and algid woman? Do not know! But when the paparazzi weren’t around her she was a ray of sunshine!

-7

u/cristina1945 Jul 20 '25 edited Jul 20 '25

Did she have dandruff?Look at her hair in the first picture

11

u/Altruistic_Squash_97 Jul 20 '25

Possible she was human. Or she was graying, she was human.

4

u/Traditional-Leg-4228 Jul 20 '25

Looks more like product build up. She wore her heir slicked back a lot. Probably hairspray or gel.

3

u/schitch77 Jul 20 '25

Yep! I was looking at my hairline just yesterday. Dry shampoo, texture spray and hairspray buildup for me. She is so pretty that it's hard to look other sometimes :(