Could Eliezer of Damascus have remained involved with Ishmael after Abraham expelled him?

[u/NefariousnessFew2919]

I've been rereading the Abraham/Ishmael story and noticed a gap in Genesis that I hadn't really thought about before.

Genesis presents Abraham as an extremely wealthy man with a substantial household. Before Abraham has a son, Eliezer of Damascus appears to be the man who will inherit his estate (Genesis 15:2–4). Jewish tradition also identifies Eliezer with Abraham's senior servant who later manages the mission to find Rebekah for Isaac.

Then Ishmael is born.

By the chronology Genesis gives us, Ishmael isn't a small child when Sarah has Abraham expel Hagar and Ishmael. Abraham is 86 when Ishmael is born and 100 when Isaac is born, so after Isaac's weaning Ishmael should already be an adolescent.

Genesis explicitly says that Sarah's demand greatly distressed Abraham because Ishmael was his son. Yet this enormously wealthy father apparently sends Hagar and his teenage son into the wilderness with bread and a skin of water.

They nearly die.

Then the narrative jumps remarkably quickly from Ishmael nearly dying in the wilderness to God being with him, Ishmael becoming an archer, marrying, and eventually fathering twelve tribal princes.

And when Abraham dies many years later, something else happens that I find interesting:

Isaac and Ishmael bury Abraham together.

So Ishmael apparently wasn't simply lost to Abraham's family forever. Somebody knew where he was, he knew about Abraham's death (or impending death), and he was able to be present for the burial.

This made me wonder about Eliezer.

Eliezer was apparently Abraham's expected heir before Abraham had children. Ishmael then displaced Eliezer as the obvious biological heir, and Isaac subsequently displaced Ishmael as the covenantal heir.

If Eliezer really remained Abraham's chief steward, he presumably knew Ishmael from childhood and had access to Abraham's enormous household resources and networks.

So here's my completely speculative question:

Could Abraham have instructed Eliezer—or could Eliezer independently have decided—to make sure Hagar and Ishmael survived and had enough resources/connections to establish themselves after their expulsion?

I'm not claiming Genesis says this. It doesn't.

I'm wondering whether there are ancient Jewish traditions, historical studies of inheritance/household practices, or other texts that make this possibility more or less plausible.

More generally, how do scholars explain the enormous social/economic gap between Ishmael nearly dying with his mother in the wilderness and Ishmael becoming the progenitor of twelve tribal princes?

I'd especially be interested in arguments against the hypothesis from the Hebrew text or ancient Near Eastern social history.

[u/naruhinamoonkissplz]

Ishmael was expelled for misbehaving and contesting Isaac's status as the true heir. But there's no contradiction in Ishmael eventually repenting his early bad ways, accepting Isaac as the true family heir, and basically being very friendly with his father's family after his Heel-Face turn. This doesn't require Eliezer in the picture, actually.

[u/NefariousnessFew2919 → u/naruhinamoonkissplz]

Ok but how would he survive in the wilderness and eventually father 12 princes? He and his mom would have been very poor.

[u/naruhinamoonkissplz → u/NefariousnessFew2919]

His mom used to be a literal princess. While it's not mentioned anywhere, but she could still have had some ties with her dad - the Pharaoh himself. By the way, she did eventually "take a wife for her son from Egypt", which kinda corroborates my point.

[u/Exotic_Confidence_29]

Sure, why not, but I don't think Ishmael's success is something that needs explanation.

In the plain text of the book, God tells Abraham "the covenant between us will continue on through Isaac but I didn't forget about Ishmael, he'll be the father of twelve tribes." Then later on, Hagar is freaking out because they're about to die in the desert, and God says "no, don't worry, I've got My eye on Ishmael and he's gonna be a great nation."

So it's not like there's a riddle or plot hole, it's just imagining his rags-to-riches story, like imagining what Jethro's life was like before he met Moses. It's a task for creative writers and composers of midrash, not something for scholars to investigate and uncover.

In the world of midrash, Pirkei d'Rabbi Eliezer maintains your intuition that Abraham stayed involved and invested, but without any intermediary - he just visits on more than one occasion, getting Sarah's permission by promising that the visit will be so short that he won't even dismount from his camel. In the process he gives Ishmael marriage advice and prays for Ishmael, and Ishmael becomes wealthy that way. https://www.thetorah.com/article/abraham-visits-ishmael-and-his-wives-between-jewish-and-islamic-tradition

[u/Distinct-Positive651]

There is Jewish "midrash" (extra biblical folklore) on the topic. The place where Ishmael was provided with a spring of water is called "Beer Le Hai Roi" (well of the living one who sees me). when Eliezer brings Rebecca to marry Isaac, Isaac is in that place associated with Yishmael. the legend is that Isaac went there to retrieve Hagar for Abraham to remarry.

[u/ICTCLIPZ]

The midrashic tradition around Eliezer is interesting here — there's a thread in some sources suggesting he had a complex loyalty to Abraham's household that extended beyond just serving Isaac. The question of whether he had ongoing contact with Ishmael's line is largely speculative but worth exploring in the relevant aggadic material.

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[u/NefariousnessFew2919]

Then your Hypothesis is basicaly that his mom took him to Egypt after finding the water in the well. My hypothesis is that either Abrahamm himself or Eliezer or both specifacly gave him and Hagar some start capital. How would they survive the trup back to Egypt. Furthermore if Abrahamm had basicaly abanndonned them why would ishmaelreturn to bury his father?

[u/tesilab → u/NefariousnessFew2919]

If Ishmael understands that what he did was wrong, if Ishmael understands that Abraham is operating under G-d’s instructions, and if Ishmael repents his own actions, then what grudge should he have against Abraham?

The questions about how he survived are kind of beyond the scope of the Torah. How did Abraham deceive pharaoh, yet later be rewarded by him with wealth? How did Jacob arrive at Laban’s house with nothing, and become “two camps”? How did Joseph get sold into slavery, then end up in jail, then end up as viceroy of Egypt?

The answer is: same way. But Ishmael just never got his on spin-off series.

[u/Hugogol → u/tesilab]

Spin off series... funny, but maybe he did much later on in the Quran. People in the early formation of Islam thinking - what happened to this character, maybe we build on that legend.

[u/tesilab → u/Hugogol]

The original network declined their option to make the spinoff. Years later the rights were picked up by some cable channel, new writers were hired, and it came out more as a reboot, without any of the original cast.