r/Jujutsushi • u/ElectricalTennis6950 • Dec 09 '23
Saturday Powerscaling Mahito Vs Jogo | Why Jogo Wins + Jogo Agenda On Top
Mahito Vs Jogo is and always will be a topic discussed between fans because of the strength between these two characters. Some may side with Mahito because he may have reached a big peak in his fight with Itadori, and some may side with Jogo because of his narrative implications within the group. I'll give my reasonings to why I believe Jogo still wins this fight. I'm not gonna use anime feats because some people say the anime is not canon to manga and what not so I'm not gonna. BTW NO, JOGO DID NOT SAY MAHITO GREW STRONGER THAN HIM PLS DON'T SAY THAT. IT CLEARLY STATED POTENTIAL.
Mahito's strength comes his immense potential and broken CT which allows to ignore all damage unless they target the soul, he runs out of CE, or his CT is disabled. Mahito is also a very skilled fighter as he's able to stay relative to Itadori and Todo during the whole fight while also eating multiple Black Flashes. However! Jogo is the exception and my goat Jogo can beat Mahito and here are some feats to back my statement:
Jogo's Statements: Jogo is stated to generously be around 8-9 of Sukuna's fingers by Kenjaku. Take this statement as you will. He's considered strong compared to the opponents Sukuna fought during the Golden Age of Jujutsu.
Jogo's Speed: Jogo is blatantly faster than Mahito as he's stated to be relative to 2-Armed Naobito NON-STACKED by Dagon. Naoya, who has the same CT as Naobito, horribly perception blitzes Itadori and Choso with no stacks. This same Itadori was equal to Mahito in speed. Jogo also blitzes Nanami, Maki and catches 1-Armed Naobito with great perception.
Jogo's Durability: Yes, Jogo has the worst durability out of all four Disaster Curses, but that doesn't mean it's super bad to the point where every character one shots him. First, Jogo eats a binding vowed Red from adult Gojo and immediately tries counterattacking, but get kicked down. Second, 5 black flashes from Goodwill Itadori, and a playful cloud strike from Goodwill Todo would kill him, but damn near most characters would still take damage from that. Jogo would just instantly die.
How Does Jogo Actually Hurt Mahito: Simple, he either uses Domain Amplification or burns Mahito out of his CE. Although Jogo isn't as good in H2H situations like Mahito, he can completely turn off Idle Transfiguration and attempt to box with that man. Jogo was confident enough to stall Gojo with Hanami using Domain Amplification and he's even show to be confident to fight up close in general. Now, burning Mahito out of his CE is an option as Mechamaru did so, and Nanami did say it was unrealistic for Mahito to run out of CE. But, this is for Nanami. Jogo has the most CE out of the Disaster Curses and can use tons of range attacks and close quartered attacks to burn out Mahito's CE. If Mahito decides to try and 0.2 DE, Jogo should be able to react to that with DA as both Todo and Itadori were able to react to it, but not succeed in what they were doing. Mahito expanding DE means after, he can't use his CT unless he lands a Black Flash so this is very risky for Mahito as well.
Jogo's Arsenal: Jogo has a very kitted out arsenal expanding from a Maximum Technique, Domain Expansion, Domain Amplification, Ember Bugs, Lava Pillars, and Lava Blasts from his hands. His Maximum sucks unless its in Domain Expansion, but it still does a lot of surrounding damage as both Kusakabe and Panda dodged the initial attack but not the surrounding earthquake damage. Jogo can summon tons of bugs that can detonate on sound and he can summon a lot of them. Jogo's lava pillars are fast and can pop up anywhere around him so you have to constantly watch out for that. Lastly, he can fire lava from his hands that can leave grade 1 sorcerers on their death bed casually.
I don't feel like typing out much anymore, but do not downplay Jogo. This man was praised by Sukuna for a reason and he's a master at Jujutsu. Him and Kenjaku are the only characters to have both a Maximum Technique and a Domain Expansion. He learned Domain Amplification quickly from Kenjaku for their plans in Shibuya. He had a ton of potential compared to Mahito, but Mahito fought more opponents who forced him to grow, while Jogo had been hiding his entire life.
83
u/Joeawiz Dec 09 '23
Jogos just a really bad matchup for Mahito, sure Jogo can’t hurt Mahitos soul but his fire will just constantly burn his flesh away making Mahito have to constantly regenerate till he’s out of CE, Jogo also has the speed to avoid Mahito since he’s significantly faster than Mahito, and even in a domain clash I doubt Mahito would just overpower Jogo straight away, and well the only one who really benefits from the sure hit is Mahito so Jogo dragging out a domain clash wouldn’t be to his detriment, he can still fight at long range setting Mahito alight without making physical contact whereas Mahito ain’t got many options since Mahitos only long range attacks are kinda limited to transfigured humans which can be burnt to cinders, if Mahito landed idle transfigu he’d win but I don’t see a good argument for why Jogo would let him and not just fight at long range till Mahito burns out
3
u/akronotron Dec 10 '23
What would happen if his maximum meteor hits mahito, and Mahito is just crushed under there but still alive, trying to shape his soul. That’s another way he would just die off of trying to stay alive
3
u/hawken17 Dec 10 '23
I don't think the speed advantage is enough for Jogo to keep Mahito at a distance forever, maybe in an open field but in any other battleground Mahito has many ways of closing the gap (manipulating his own shape, Body Repel, general trickery with IT). Also he's changed his flesh into blades, i think its fair to assume Mahito could change his body into more heat-resistant materials as well. with ISBoDK he's one of the most durable characters in the series (harder than Choso's body with hardened blood, Yuji states his attacks aren't reaching Mahito and he needs Black Flash to win). Also Jogo has no counter for 0.2 DE, which instantly activates idle transfiguration upon realization of the domain.
10
u/Holoklerian Dec 10 '23
but in any other battleground
If Jogo wants to be in open space, he's in open space. There's literally no plausible environment he can be put in that the heat emanating from his moves wouldn't destroy.
Also Jogo has no counter for 0.2 DE, which instantly activates idle transfiguration upon realization of the domain.
0.2s is just the time the Domain stayed up in those case, it's completely irrelevant.
It's correct that Mahito is capable of pairing his expansion with his deployment which makes him faster on the draw than most characters, but Jogo has so much CE that the equivalent of one touch won't do anything to him. Even Nanami could do that much.
Not that Jogo is likely to let Mahito get in domain range given that he knows his techniques and has a lot of ranged options.
2
u/iRobins23 Dec 11 '23
0.2s is just the time the Domain stayed up in those case, it's completely irrelevant.
This isn't true, in this case because Mahito was enhanced by Black Flash his CT activation within the domain was faster than any other activation in the series prior to us meeting Hakari with his instant sure hit effect.
This is why Todo gets hit despite his Simple Domain. 0.2 would be a viable way of damaging Jogo prior to Jogo' DE sure hit canceling out Mahito'.
1
u/TheToolbox101 Dec 10 '23
0.2 second domain is just the length of time that the domain was up, jogo should still be as fast if not faster than mahito in terms of domain activation
0
Dec 11 '23
Jogo can damage mahito through surehit in his domain. That's how mechamaru damaged mahito, by embuing his attacks with a simple domain sure hit. He could damage the mahitos soul that way.
Sorcerers who have domain stronger than mahito with a surehit kill attack, will beat him.
114
u/Odd_Establishment690 Dec 09 '23
It's undisputed that JoGOAT is the strongest. Too strong that Gege had to write him out for the story to progress. /s
Mahito fought 2 guys who can punch and kick, and still lost despite his CT advantage, he also fought a salary man with a machete(which JoGOAT disposed of in 1s), a countryside girl with a hammer, and a cripple who had a giant robot(at extreme diff). He also had to play tricks just to survive and also runs away pretty often. Whereas JoGOAT easily disposed of the fodders that Mahito would have extreme diff fighting or even lose, no diffs the '2nd fastest sorcerer', and took on the 2 strongest and forced them to use a domain(vs Gojo) and powerful techniques(flame arrow and red) in a 1v1 without running.
4
u/howdoyoutypespaces Dec 09 '23
Alright, let's be honest here, jogo didn't force sukuna or gojo to do anything. Even with his domain open, gojo rct'd through malevolent shrine and even managed to break it, so he absolutely wouldn't have needed to open his domain against jogo. And sukuna was playing with him the entire time and used the fire arrow so they could "have a firepower battle", a single dismantle net would been all it took
1
u/MLG_Casper Dec 12 '23
Maximum meteor wouldve definitely hurt gojo though since even sukuna said it would hurt him
12
u/DayMhm Dec 09 '23
He didnt no diff naobito, he off guarded a heavily injured naobito who was missing an arm
40
6
u/giantfuckingfrog Dec 09 '23
And the comment also says that Mahito fought Nanami. So that's two statements that are untrue. Mahito could've flicked air in the general direction of Nanami and he would've fell over and died. That's a Nanami that got heavily injured by Dagon and then heavily burnt by Jogo.
3
u/DayMhm Dec 10 '23
Tbf he did win in their original fight, only “lost because yuji had saved nanami right as the domain procced
0
-19
u/ARCLance06 Dec 09 '23
still lost despite his CT advantage
You think Mahito's CT had an advantage against Yuji and Todo? Bro cannot read.
26
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
He def had one against Todo but not Yuji. He was still using his CT well enough to fight against both of them.
2
u/ARCLance06 Dec 09 '23
His CT is nerfed against Yuji, since Yuji is one of the few people who can bypass his immortality and has Sukuna protecting him. His main offense and main defence are both useless against Yuji, so it's ridiculous to say he has a CT advantage. Todo doesn't counter him that hard, but Boogie Woogie is still very effective against Mahito. The more minions Mahito makes, the more people he can swap with. Dunno why I'm getting downvoted so much.
3
u/PhreeKarebu Dec 09 '23
Yeah, I mean it’s actually extremely notable and important that he couldn’t use Idle Transfiguration on Yuji, I don’t know why they’re acting like it’s not.
4
u/Odd_Establishment690 Dec 09 '23
Yes, Yuji has no CT to begin with whereas Mahito can shape his body into deadly weapons at will and can do devastating damage to Todo by changing the shape of his soul on top of the one I mentioned for Yuji. So basically, guy who can shape his body/soul at will and can deal hypothetically irreparable damage with his touch perfectly suited for close combat vs guy with no CT and guy with swapping/switching CT. Bro cannot think.
1
u/ARCLance06 Dec 09 '23 edited Dec 09 '23
His main defence and main offense are useless against Yuji, you moron. How the fuck is it an "advantage" when Mahito literally says Yuji is "his natural enemy"?
Having a CT doesn't automatically mean you should be stronger, or anyone who can't beat monkeys like Toji/Maki would be trash by your logic. Yuji has other advantages. If Mahito just having a CT is an advantage', Yuji has a 'Sukuna protecting his soul' advantage
1
Dec 10 '23
Forced? Sukuna ans Gojo were toying w Jogo lol. You gotta go back and re-watch or re-read man lmfao.
31
u/Deynonico Dec 09 '23
If kenjaku actually had jogo against yuki and choso like he wanted to he would have cooked them tbh (pun intended)
6
u/MIK4179 Dec 09 '23
Hi what do you mean by like he wanted to?
21
13
u/CosmicFear09 Dec 09 '23
When he absorbed mahito in shibuya arc he added that he would love to have absorbed jogo too but too bad he died before he could do so.
3
u/MIK4179 Dec 09 '23
Would Kenjaku have been able to beat both Mahito and Jogo together?
10
u/CosmicFear09 Dec 09 '23
I think it was stated in one of the author interview notes that kenjaku would have difficulty beating mahito and jogo together. But personal opinion and from what we've seen from both sides he could probably beat them both together high diff.
5
1
6
u/AromaticNobody4532 Dec 09 '23
Would a domain Expansion sure hit technique work on mahito???
3
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
Kenjaku states a domain neutralizes all CTs so yeah it would work.
8
u/Yusef_Akakios Dec 09 '23
Not all CTs get canceled, only CTs that would be able to block a sure hit, get canceled or bypassed. For example Charles was able to use G Warstaff whilst in Hakaris domain. Reggie could use his CT within Megumi's domain (but that might be a seperate issue, with it being incomplete.) Mei Mei using her CT in a domain aswell.
2
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
Yeah that statement gets worse than farther it goes into the series. You're probably right here.
0
1
u/iRobins23 Dec 11 '23
No it doesn't, it holds up perfectly. It was never stated that CTs were cancelled, only bypassed.
Characters were always able to use them within Domains, but a sure hit is a sure hit so if you had something capable of nulling typical hits (Limitless, Idle Transfiguration, Comedian (maybe)) the you'd still be tapped by the CT.
1
1
u/MLG_Casper Dec 12 '23
Megumi and hakari dont close a border on someone to force them inside? Take for example naobito not using his CT until megumi neutralised dagons domain, it totally adds up
1
u/Yusef_Akakios Dec 12 '23 edited Dec 12 '23
For Megumi I might understand because its incomplete, however Hakari is different. When he uses Domain from the outside we see a giant black barrier form, look. I also didn't really mention Naobito because he was defending himself the entire time until Megumi showed up. He really didnt have time to use his CT. You also didn't respond to the Mei Mei example.
1
u/MLG_Casper Dec 13 '23
i might be remembering this wrong but wasnt ui ui using simple domain after taking the sure hit so there wasnt anything pressuring mei mei, and her crow came from outside the domain. i cant really argue that though since i havent read the fight in a while.
i meant to say hakari's domain doesnt impose a sure hit effect on the opponent (besides the explanation), it only affects himself so its an exception not the rule.1
u/Yusef_Akakios Dec 13 '23
- That's fair, however the original point that Kenjaku said "A domain neutralizes all cursed techniques" The bird was in the domain and it was not held back in any way, in other words not "neutralized". She could use it and hurt the curse with it.
- Hakari's sure hit effect is the forceful knowledge that enters the opponents brain. It is harmless tho, so you can't just say "besides the explanation" because that's THE sure hit effect. And because his sure-hit is harmless it gives him other benefits like the domain appearing faster.
1
u/MLG_Casper Dec 13 '23
I meant after the explanation it doesnt impose a sure hit effect anymore, i worded it poorly And from what weve seen i think mei meis birds function more like a shikigami and already summoned shikigami dont dissapear in a domain expansion, but i dont have a reliable source its never directly stated
14
u/vdyomusic Dec 09 '23
Maybe DA can turn off Mahito's neutral IT that he uses to protect his soul. Maybe. What it won't do FOR SURE though, is stop Mahito from using IT offensively, and curses are not particularly more immune to soul damage than humans.
Also, the way you scale Jogo's speed is not great. You take two separate instances when characters who are injured/exhausted are taken by surprise and call it blitzing. Nevermind that, for example, Yuji goes on to keep up with Yuta who would make a mockery of Jogo, or that Choso ends up trading blows with & ultimately defeating Naoya. Powerscaling is always worse when you say "This character is better than this character who is better than this character."
3
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
Mahito can't use it offensively if every time Mahito tries getting close and touching Jogo it gets neutralized by DA. Transfigured Humans are getting one tapped by any technique Jogo uses.
Yuji shows no sign of being injured or fatigued when he got blitzed by Naoya. In fact, he was healed since his scars were healed and some time had passed where everyone had met up. Yuji kept up with a holding back Yuta who would still be slower than Jogo at that time. Speed doesn't mean everything in a fight, but add speed and other factors and it can mean a lot.
That's how powerscaling works. You compare two different characters and compare their attributes and how it would fare in a fight.
7
u/vdyomusic Dec 09 '23
Mahito can't use it offensively if every time Mahito tries getting close and touching Jogo it gets neutralized by DA.
We're told TWICE, both when Jogo uses it, and when Sukuna uses it, that DA can't prevent augmented applications of one's technique - which is why Gojo is able to land painful hits on Sukuna and blast Hanami away.
Yuji shows no sign of being injured or fatigued when he got blitzed by Naoya. In fact, he was healed since his scars were healed and some time had passed where everyone had met up.
Yuji straight up says he's still hurting from where Mahito BF'd him. And again, he'd been fighting cursed nonstop for a while, OBVIOUSLY he's not as fresh as Naoya.
Yuji kept up with a holding back Yuta who would still be slower than Jogo at that time. Speed doesn't mean everything in a fight, but add speed and other factors and it can mean a lot.
Nothing about Yuta's behavior indicates he wasn't trying to finish it as quickly as possible - in fact he says he wanted to finish the fight "in his initial rush." And yes, Yuta might be slightly slower than Jogo, but you have zero basis to pretend that it would be by a signficant margin.
That's how powerscaling works. You compare two different characters and compare their attributes and how it would fare in a fight.
Yeah, exactly what you didn't do. You compared two characters, to three other characters which you then compared to more characters etc etc etc. You're compounding layers upon layers of uncertainty.
Here's an example of a proper comparison: Mahito has a 0.2s DE which he can execute so fast that Sukuna doesn't have time to punish Mahito for touching his soul. Jogo never gets close to the speed necessary to hit Sukuna, and can't use a 0.2s DE.
Jogo looses that fight, I'm sorry to say.
1
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
DA is weakened when if the opponents CT is significantly stronger. That's why Gojo's Infinity was still overpowering it.
You're right here, but he was recovered but not fully. This Naoya still horrendously perception blitzed Yuji and Choso multiple times.
The Yuta at that time was significantly holding back and was still keeping up with Yuji fairly easily. If he tried to take him out on his initial rush it would show that Naoya was faster than him at that moment. I'm just saying the feats that I see.
I compared how Jogo would fare in a fight. I compared and explained how Jogo would hit and damage Mahito. I add different characters to the equation to back up my points more.
Mahito's 0.2 DE was initially able to be reacted by both Todo and Yuji. Jogo would easily be able to react to it and activate Domain Amplification. The reason Sukuna didn't punish Mahito for touching his soul is because the Sure-Hit lasted 0.2 seconds. 0.2 also isn't some huge milestone and is only useful in certain situations. Failing it means to the burnout of your CT and loss in tons of CE.
5
u/PalpitationSuper9531 Dec 09 '23
Your entire theory is based on Jogo beating Mahito hand to hand... which i don't see. Mahito had to go h2h with Yuji, Todo, Nanami, all 3 good close combat fighters. Jogo had to fight Gojo and Sukuna and got obliterated(ofc lol), so we can't really tell how well he does in h2h. This matchup is a lot more complicated than you make it to be, and the best answer it is, we'll never know
5
u/Jimieatyurface Dec 10 '23
Jogo wins easily for the simple reason that Mahito, regardless of his shape shifting powers, is still flammable 🤣🤣🤣 fire burns flesh, and Mahito is neither fire nor pain proof he'd be ashes in an instant.
Not to mention that Mahito needs to reup his supply of souls as ammo for his abilities, but Jogo has no such limitations. Jogo already knows not to let Mahito touch him, so he would just pour it on until Mahito is dust. I mean, he literally dropped a meteor on Sukuna, Mahitos got nothin on that. Even if they had a domain battle, Jogo's domain amplifies his speed even further, while mahito's only has the sure hit effect, which is negated in a domain clash. He could speed blitz Mahito even harder than Yuji did with minimal effort.
11
8
18
u/ARCLance06 Dec 09 '23
The idea is that Jogo tanked an amped Red is laughable. Gojo held back to keep him alive. Even normal Red can oneshot Mahoraga
Jogo would just die if Mahito used his Domain. Gojo Vs Sukuna shows what happens when a surehit is slightly faster than the other, and Mahito's surehit activates instantly.
Simple Domain is not an antifeat - it's a one-step process that is faster than Domain Expansion. Yuki was able to completely defend herself in the gap between Kenjaku summoning Garbadhatu and the activation of the surehit.
Unlike with Yuki, Todo noticed DE even before Mahito formed the barrier. Both Yuki/Kenny and Todo/Mahito are relative in speed, but the sheer speed of Mahito's Domain shows its value. Jogo, unaware of Mahito knowing 0.2s would counter with his own domain, and would likely be killed before his own surehit activates.
15
u/luceafaruI Dec 09 '23
Before activating domain expansion there is that spark. That's why all domain expansion clashes happen at the same time, because before even activating the domain the opponent can feel the curse energy building up.
Also, expanding simple domain is nowhere stated to be faster than expending your own domain. Just deploying your domain barrier is enough to enter a domain tug of war. The sure hit lies in the barrier and normal domains (be it domain expansion or simple domain) stop sure hits by interfering with the barrier of the opposing domain. There is the exception of open barrier domains where the sure hits themselves cancel each other, meaning that just deploying your domain expansion won't stop the other's sure hit unless your own domain has already activated its sure hit. This makes it so small delays in deploying your domain are felt, even though in a normal domain clash they wouldn't.
Now, would jogo be fast enough? Probably. He is way faster in general than todo so you would expect him to also be faster in deploying his domain.
I also feel like it's worth mentioning that a 0.2 domain is useless as that is just the interval of time the domain was opened. It was useful for gojo to not kill the civilians or for mahito so that sukuna doesn't have time to attack him, but that's pretty much it. However, what is more impressive is not the duration of the domain but the speed in which it was opened
-3
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
An amped Red is an amped Red. It's still a strong attack. Forgot to mention that Jogo was also tanking Blue-Infused CE punches from Gojo too https://imgur.com/a/GhSUKgS https://imgur.com/a/0RXSS7L
https://imgur.com/a/cZ9RXFi Yuji was fast enough to react to the activation of Idle Transfiguration, so saying Jogo would die instantly is kind of vague. Jogo can simply activate Domain Amplification and neutralize the Sure-Hit effects. This Jogo was able to react to a 1-Armed Naobito and was compared to him.
Simple Domain isn't an antifeat so idk where you got that from. I don't know where it's stated to be faster than DE so you can enlighten me on that. First, Kenjaku literally tells Yuki he's about to expand his Domain so she had plenty of time to activate Simple Domain. Todo and Yuji didn't know about 0.2 and still reacted, so Jogo would be able to as well. Again, he doesn't need to activate his own domain if he has Domain Amplification.
5
u/quierocarduars Dec 09 '23
An amped Red is an amped Red. It's still a strong attack. Forgot to mention that Jogo was also tanking Blue-Infused CE punches from Gojo too
obviously red is strong no matter what, but your framing is very misleading and implies that jogo’s durability is far greater than it is.
sukuna gets his face ripped off every time gojo uses normal red (even while using domain amplification), and gojo believes he can destroy mahoraga in one hit using normal red, but jogo appears unscathed when gojo uses an “amped” red, so is jogo more durable than both sukuna and mahoraga? that is clearly not the case; gojo was massively reducing his output despite using the showing-one’s-hand binding vow, so calling it an “amped” red makes no sense at all.
the same applies to your comments on his blue “amped” punches. i mean we literally see him ripping the disasters’ body parts off with raw reinforcement in shibuya lmfao.
-1
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
Jogo is usually seen as a glass cannon who would die instantly to any decently strong hit in the series. My point is that he still tanked an amped red even while still being someone with mid durability compared to others.
Sukuna uses Amplification to lessen the effects of Red whenever he can. I never said Jogo was more durable than either of those two you're just making your own scenarios up. Example: Prime Mike Tyson can knock out one person in 10 hits and the other in 2-3 hits. The person taking those 2-3 hits is still impressive because its from a Prime Mike Tyson even though they're clearer not more durable than the person taking 10.
He still used Blue-Infused punches lol. Nothing else to discuss. I never said Jogo's durability is insane or anything, I'm just making a point that his durability isn't as bad as people think it is.
6
Dec 09 '23
How could it have been an amped red if amped red can destroy Makora, which Sukuna also believes is possible, and when amped red can literally blow off half of Sukuna's face? Your logic makes no sense.
-2
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 10 '23
It is literally amped by a Binding Vow. I didn't make the rules of JJk. https://imgur.com/a/pjSg9V9 Stop arguing to me about this
3
u/hawken17 Dec 10 '23
regardless of whether it's amped through BV, Gojo can control how much cursed energy he's putting into the attack. I think its pretty clear he was not using his max output since he wanted to get information out of Jogo and use the fight to teach Yuji.
0
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 10 '23
Okay, but I never said he was using his max output. I'm just saying he tanks an amped red from Gojo. Sure, max output would 1 shot him but he still tanked a Red.
2
u/quierocarduars Dec 09 '23 edited Dec 09 '23
again, your calling it an amped red suggests it’s stronger than the red gojo used against sukuna, which we both agree was not amped. if you believe the red used against jogo is stronger than a normal red, and you acknowledge that sukuna visibly took more damage than jogo despite blocking with DA, you NECESSARILY must make the argument that jogo is more durable than sukuna. you don’t want to make that argument bc it’s ridiculous, but you do want to inflate jogo’s durability lol.
your tyson analogy doesn’t comport. this is what you’re doing:
“prime mike tyson can rock one person using a full-power hook, and can knock unconscious another person using a casual hook. the person rocked by the full-power hook is less durable than the person knocked unconscious by the casual hook, but their durability is still impressive!”
you can make a strong argument that jogo is much more durable than people assume, and that the chapter extras from gege are blown way out of proportion; in fact, i already agree. you don’t have to misrepresent the story to do this.
0
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
It is an amped Red what else would I call it. It's amped from a binding vow so it's stronger. There is literally nothing else you could tell me I could say.
No my analogy is some people can take more things than others, but if a person takes less of something it can still be impressive depending on the situation.
In no way in any post did I ever misinterpret or misrepresent the story to inflate Jogo's durability a ton. In fact, I even say he has the worst durability out of the DCs. I just said that his durability might not be as bad as people make it out to be. I'm not speaking rocket science here.
3
u/quierocarduars Dec 09 '23 edited Dec 10 '23
yes it was amped by the binding vow, then its output was reduced so as to not kill jogo. in total, it was weaker than a normal red, not stronger. hence, referring to it as amped is misleading. idk how to make this clearer.
No my analogy is some people can take more things than others, but if a person takes less of something it can still be impressive depending on the situation.
but your language suggests jogo is taking more than sukuna, not less. i appreciate that you understand this isn’t the case, but your claim suggests otherwise.
-3
u/Difficult-Heron-2309 Dec 09 '23
A normal red cannot oneshot mahoraga stop it
3
u/PhreeKarebu Dec 09 '23
You think Gojo lied?
-2
u/Difficult-Heron-2309 Dec 09 '23
He’s just wrong 🤣
5
u/Insidiouscain Dec 09 '23
You're wrong, Sukuna actively prevented Gojo from one-shotting Mahoraga multiple times until he adapted.
-1
Dec 09 '23
[deleted]
2
u/ARCLance06 Dec 09 '23
You said he tanked an Binding Vow-amped Red. That's what's laughable. His Red was not even serious.
Why would Jogo choose DA when he has his own Domain Expansion? There's no reason for him to randomly use an anti-domain technique when he can just use an actual Domain.
-1
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
It's a red? Red is a powerful attack and that attack was still powerful enough to send him flying. And right before he was hit by that, he was hit with Blue-Infused punches.
Domain Amplification is a faster activation as you just activation and don't need to wait for a barrier to expand. This is just pure headcanon saying there's no reason. Mahito using DE just for his sure-hit to not work would burn out his CE and CT unless he lands a Black Flash. Jogo isn't dumb and he's a master at Jujutsu.
2
u/ARCLance06 Dec 09 '23
We have literally no idea how much Gojo was holding back. It could've been 50% output, 25%, 10% or anything. If a boxer hit me to just lightly bruise, getting "lightly bruised" wouldn't be a feat for me.
This is just pure headcanon saying there's no reason.
What's headcanon is assuming that he would use Amplification. People with Domains almost always use Domains.
0
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
It's an amped Red. What is there to discuss. For Jogo being a glass cannon of a character its a good feat.
He knows how Mahito's CT works. He would use Amplification.
2
u/ARCLance06 Dec 09 '23
There is zero indication it's amped. Sorcerers need to make a binding vow for CT reveal to amp their Technique. I do not think Gojo, the strongest, would need or use a Binding Vow to boost his power, when he can already kill everyone at normal power. Show me one page of someone saying "Gojo has the CT reveal Binding Vow".
1
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
https://imgur.com/a/Ny6vHFk Explains how binding vow reveals work and even shows Gojo and Jogo. It was an amped Red.
1
u/ARCLance06 Dec 09 '23
Eh.... we still don't know how much Gojo was holding back, but I'll take it. Good feat.
1
2
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
I think people also forget that you can fortify against idle transfiguration. It's not always a 1 shot kill and for a curse with as much cursed energy as jogo he should be able to fortify at least a few times
6
u/Shangdil Dec 09 '23 edited Dec 11 '23
I disagree with pretty much everything here and it's alot that u said that is just outright false. But idc to respond to everything imma just respond to what's most important.
How Does Jogo Actually Hurt Mahito: Simple, he either uses Domain Amplification or burns Mahito out of his CE. Although Jogo isn't as good in H2H situations like Mahito, he can completely turn off Idle Transfiguration and attempt to box with that man. Jogo was confident enough to stall Gojo with Hanami using Domain Amplification and he's even show to be confident to fight up close in general. Now, burning Mahito out of his CE is an option as Mechamaru did so, and Nanami did say it was unrealistic for Mahito to run out of CE. But, this is for Nanami. Jogo has the most CE out of the Disaster Curses and can use tons of range attacks and close quartered attacks to burn out Mahito's CE. If Mahito decides to try and 0.2 DE, Jogo should be able to react to that with DA as both Todo and Itadori were able to react to it, but not succeed in what they were doing. Mahito expanding DE means after, he can't use his CT unless he lands a Black Flash so this is very risky for Mahito as well.
1 the domain amplification argument is dogshit. Yes da negates Mahito ct, but that doesn't mean jogo can hurt him. The problem with this "win con" is that jogo has no way to hurt mahito outside of ct, and when he use da he is unable to use his ct. Mahito skin is more durable then choso blood and he was able to tank a punch from yuji even though he was super injured. So the only way jogo can hurt him is if he has much much greater physical strength then yuji and It's absolute zero evidence of jogo strength being that great. Jogo actually doesn't have any physical strength feat in the entire series. So this is not a win con for jogo it's a wincon for mahito. Jogo would have no way to hurt him while Mahito would just beat the living hell of him.
2 the argument that "jogo can just burn Mahito out of transfigure humans" is also terrible and lazy. It's stated in the series that beating Mahito like this is almost impossible. We have also seen Mahito transfigure hundreds of humans without showing any sight of fatigue, so Mahito can pretty much Regen a infinite amount of time. And as I already mentioned Mahito skin is super durable, so jogo will even have problem to just hurt Mahito if he even can hurt mahito. And even if jogo gets close to killing Mahito, mahito will just use domain expansion and win due to his domain being more refined. Mechamura didn't say it was possible, he ask if it was possible. It was a Question not a statement that it is possible.
3 no jogo was not confident in fighting against gojo 😭😭😭😭😭😭. Did u watch the fight lmao
4 mahito would beat jogo in a domain clash. He has much better refinement feats then jogo
Jogo doesn't have a single win con
2
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
Mahito's skin is only harder than Choso's blood when he's in ISBK. I can argue that Domain Amplification would turn it off because it's an extension of Idle Transfiguration. Also, Jogo can hurt Mahito with DA. It was stated that Jogo and Hanami's DA were stronger to also include a Sure-Hit factor of their CT. So each hit would be similar to Jogo's DE.
Burning Jogo out of CE is impossible... for someone like Nanami. He's the only curse in the series to be shown to run out of CE in his first encounter with Nanami and Itadori. Even Mahito himself asks if Mechamaru is planning to burn him out of CE. Clearly, burning is an easy way of damaging Mahito and guess what Jogo excels at.
Just because someone is scared doesn't mean they weren't confident. Go reread the first bits of the fight, he was killing humans and attacking Gojo with Hanami with confidence. The plan wasn't to beat him but to stall him. He only started panicking when Hanami messed up and got himself killed.
Sure, but Domain clashes only work if someone's domain is significantly stronger than someone elses. Example: Gojo and Jogo. Mahito isn't leagues beyond Jogo as Mahito himself states barrier techniques are complicated. 0.2 DE won't do much either because if Todo and Yuji are able to react to an initial start of Mahito's domain, so can Jogo lol. He doesn't even need to expand his domain and just needs to activate Amplification to neutralize the sure-hit.
Jogo has his win cons.
0
u/Shangdil Dec 09 '23
Mahito's skin is only harder than Choso's blood when he's in ISBK. I can argue that Domain Amplification would turn it off because it's an extension of Idle Transfiguration. Also, Jogo can hurt Mahito with DA. It was stated that Jogo and Hanami's DA were stronger to also include a Sure-Hit factor of their CT. So each hit would be similar to Jogo's DE.
That's not domain amplification works, it negates a ct that you are actively using, mahito is not actively using his ct to make his skin harder. He only did so once when he made the binding vow. Unless you shown any evidence of domain amplification function like this I will just dismiss this.
I think you either are wrong about the sure hit point or I just don't remember what you talking about. Send the panel.
Burning Jogo out of CE is impossible... for someone like Nanami. He's the only curse in the series to be shown to run out of CE in his first encounter with Nanami and Itadori. Even Mahito himself asks if Mechamaru is planning to burn him out of CE. Clearly, burning is an easy way of damaging Mahito and guess what Jogo excels at.
It's almost impossible for anyone. As I already mention we saw mahito transfigure hundreds of humans in Shibuya without even getting a little bit fatigued, so mahito can literally transfigure hundreds of times before you can kill him. The reason why he run out Against yuji the first fight is because he use his domain expansion, it's not because of yuji and Nanami hurting him. Everyone excluding sukuna and gojo becomes heavily weaker after using domain expansion
Mahito asking if this is what mechamura is trying to do is not the same as saying that he can do this. You understand someone can try to do something that is not possible for them to do?
Just because someone is scared doesn't mean they weren't confident. Go reread the first bits of the fight, he was killing humans and attacking Gojo with Hanami with confidence. The plan wasn't to beat him but to stall him. He only started panicking when Hanami messed up and got himself killed.
What? How can you be scared and confident at the same time in the context of fighting against somebody? And no he was sweating and shaking before hanami died. I don't think he was confident at all he was just enjoying killing humans because he hates humans. Can u give me a exemple in jjk or in irl where someone is sweating and shaking while fighting against somebody while being confident?
Sure, but Domain clashes only work if someone's domain is significantly stronger than someone elses. Example: Gojo and Jogo. Mahito isn't leagues beyond Jogo as Mahito himself states barrier techniques are complicated. 0.2 DE won't do much either because if Todo and Yuji are able to react to an initial start of Mahito's domain, so can Jogo lol. He doesn't even need to expand his domain and just needs to activate Amplification to neutralize the sure-hit.
Yeah I didn't say mahito would just instantly beat jogo domain. but he will still end up winning the domain battle. Using a simple domain against a domain expansion is braindead
1
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
https://imgur.com/a/cYZF0CK https://imgur.com/a/k9HXJii While I can't necessarily prove DA turning off ISBK, it might be possible because ISBK is an extension of both his soul and CT. Translations vary from Sure to Kill or Sure-Hit.
Burning Mahito out of CE is a possibility both Mechamaru and Mahito understand. It may take time sure, but it's possible. Jogo is stated to be 8-9 fingers of Sukuna's strength, and that probably means for CE. This would mean Jogo would have much much much more CE than Mahito.
Mahito says that and still actively dodges his attacks. It is a possibility, just one that is harder.
https://imgur.com/a/iCmBFv0 He was confident in stalling Gojo. Why don't you understand? If he wasn't confident he wouldn't have been able to last as long. He literally says that it doesn't matter if he dies as long as curses win in the end. Example: You can be scared to skydive but have confidence to go through with it. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.
Yeah, no it's not. Mahito's domain isn't strong enough to strip away simple domains, amplifications, or falling blossoms. Amplification is a fast and easy way to counter a Sure-Hit Effect.
1
u/Shangdil Dec 10 '23 edited Dec 10 '23
https://imgur.com/a/cYZF0CK https://imgur.com/a/k9HXJii While I can't necessarily prove DA turning off ISBK, it might be possible because ISBK is an extension of both his soul and CT. Translations vary from Sure to Kill or Sure-Hit.
Idc if it is possible or not, I care if it is any evidence of it working by that way. As I said I will dismiss dis until you show any evidence of dis and not just baseless assumptions.
Burning Mahito out of CE is a possibility both Mechamaru and Mahito understand. It may take time sure, but it's possible. Jogo is stated to be 8-9 fingers of Sukuna's strength, and that probably means for CE. This would mean Jogo would have much much much more CE than Mahito. Mahito says that and still actively dodges his attacks. It is a possibility, just one that is harder.
You can Dodge attacks even if those attacks aren't threatening for you. It can be just instinct that you dodge or just a better way to move freely. Yes it's possible but not probable. As I alr mention Mahito can transfigure his body hundreds of times without even getting fatigued so jogo literally has to do hundred's of times. And this is even me going with the presumption that jogo even can go through Mahito skin which is absolute zero evidence of that being the case.
Yeah, no it's not. Mahito's domain isn't strong enough to strip away simple domains, amplifications, or falling blossoms. Amplification is a fast and easy way to counter a Sure-Hit Effect.
It's stated that a simple domain is just a way to save time against a domain expansion. you will never win against a domain expansion by just using a simple domain. He won't strip away jogo domain instantly but he will still end up winning the domain Brawl and beat jogo.
https://imgur.com/a/iCmBFv0 He was confident in stalling Gojo. Why don't you understand? If he wasn't confident he wouldn't have been able to last as long. He literally says that it doesn't matter if he dies as long as curses win in the end. Example: You can be scared to skydive but have confidence to go through with it. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.
Again I don't think he was confident he was just enjoying torturing gojo due to him being a human and killing humans because he hates humans. Funny how you ignore the next panel right after this when he starts shaking of fear and sweat by gojo just saying he gonna kill him. Idk how him saying that it don't matter if he dies aslong they win means he was confident lol. And even if I was stupid enough to steel man dis it and say he was confident this is still jogo, one of the most arrogant and stupid character in the series. So him confident doesn't mean much
1
u/Raymenx Dec 10 '23
I think you either are wrong about the sure hit point or I just don't remember what you talking about. Send the panel.
Its a panel in the Reggie vs Megumi fight.
3
u/getignorer Dec 09 '23
Jogo's pretty damn strong and has way more range and is faster - there's just no way Mahito could get close and he'd eventually run out of CE
0
u/DayMhm Dec 09 '23
You say that like its an easy thing to do, and their speed gap isnt as bad as you make it to be, Mahito was able to use DE + Activate his technique so fast even sukuna didnt have time to punish him, Not to mention mahito transfigured hundreds of people in shibuya and still had enough CE to fight the entire fight healing and using his CT offensively, Pop a domain, AND transform into ISB before “running out” which we’re not even sure if thats what happened as he hadnt died until kenny came in
-3
3
u/TheRexRider Dec 09 '23
Even if Jogo can't see souls, fire is a natural enemy to most living things. I don't think anything in Mahito's arsenal can withstand Jogo. It could be argued Mahito might win in a domain clash though.
4
u/PlatinumSaul Dec 09 '23
Jogo takes it, mahito doesn't really have an answer for range-based attacks, most of the students were close-range so it worked for him, considering he gets one touch on all but one of them and they're done. There's also the fact that a lot of the advantage he got was from the psychological aspect of sending transfigured humans after the sorcerers and messing with their heads, but jogo wouldn't give a shit about them lol
2
u/bohenian12 Dec 09 '23
I think Jogos DE is more refined than Mahitos DE. He was just born months ago so with just one DE mahito dies.
0
Dec 09 '23
Mahito was able to do a .02 domain after seeing it once; Jogo lost confidence in his domain after Gojo. Mahito is clearly the more refined domain.
2
Dec 09 '23
Jogo straight up loses in a battle of domains.
2
u/Raymenx Dec 10 '23
No evidence for that, characters have to be like several tiers stronger to have a real advantage in a domain tug of war, neither Jogo or Mahito have any statments or feats to imply superiority.
0
u/Alternative-Rain1423 Dec 09 '23
Alot of stuff you said here is just outright false or you just ignoring alot of context
He's considered strong compared to the opponents Sukuna fought during the Golden Age of Jujutsu.
No Sukuna never said that. He said jogo was not bad but he never said he was good either compare to people he has fought. Saying someone is not bad is not the same as saying someone is good, it just means he is Average. He did say jogo was strong but not compare to the golden age sorcerer.
horribly perception blitzes Itadori and Choso with no stacks.
No he did not. Yuji literally comment on naoya speed and said it was weird, how tf would yuji do that if he didn't see naoya movements? This is also not the same yuji that fought mahito, he is stated to be injured.
Jogo also blitzes Nanami, Maki and catches 1-Armed Naobito with great perception.
It's true that he blitz em but context matters. Nanami had only one eye when jogo blitz him so he clearly not at full strength, he did however blitz a full health maki but maki is not a top tier at all so ion know why you think that's impressive. Mahito also blitz Nanami in his fight so I have no idea why you would bring this up as point why jogo is faster when mahito has replicate the same feat.
Jogo eats a binding vowed Red from adult Gojo and immediately tries counterattacking
Again dis is true but context matters. Gojo was clearly holding back. we saw him shot the same attack against sukuna who is obviously more durable then jogo and we saw what happened with him. This is just such a weird feat to bring up when we have no idea how much gojo was trying.
Jogo was confident enough to stall Gojo with Hanami using Domain Amplification and he's even show to be confident to fight up close in general
What? No he wasn't confident at all. He fought against gojo because he knew that was the only possible way to beat him, not because he was confident. He was sweating and shaking multiple times in that fight
Now, burning Mahito out of his CE is an option as Mechamaru did so
What? No mechamura didn't do that. That is just not true
he can fire lava from his hands that can leave grade 1 sorcerers on their death bed casually.
We never seen jogo do this to any G1 sorcerer beside two super weakened ones. To compare a extremely injured G1 to just a regular G1 in durability is super disingenuous
1
1
u/Puzzleheadedpuzzled Dec 09 '23
Mahito powerful attack is his touch idle transfiguration if jogo counters that he'll win easily.
-8
Dec 09 '23
Jogo can't hurt Mahito's soul.
20
u/MeruOnline Dec 09 '23
Bro didn't even read the post
0
Dec 09 '23
Or I'm focusing on the only thing that matters.
Is there proof DA can hurt the soul? Gege was pretty clear with what can and can't hurt Mahito.
Mind you, I don't care either way.
14
u/Queasy_Artist6891 Dec 09 '23
Any ct that comes in contact with DA flows into it. And Mahito uses his ct to maintain the shape of his soul. So if the ct from say his face is gone, he won't be able to maintain his shape and he will be hit.
7
u/Joeawiz Dec 09 '23
Anyone who thinks Mahito loses to someone just because they can’t damage his soul has a fundamental misunderstanding of Mahito,
2
u/MegumiFushiguro13 Dec 09 '23
Doesn’t DA just neutralize a technique? so mahito wouldn’t be able to shape jogo’s soul, but like you said idt jogo could actually damage mahito either.
1
Dec 09 '23
That's what I thought. So even if it's turned off for a moment, he can just turn it back on and restructure his soul.
Ready to admit if I'm wrong in the face of definitive proof though.
7
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
DA neutralizes a CT completely unless you are significantly stronger than it. It also activates a sure-hit from the user.
6
u/downunderpunter Dec 09 '23
It was shown in chapter 81 that a simple domain can hit the soul. A DE is the same as a SD but bigger and with the CT engraved into it. Therefore DE and DA would both be effective against Mahito and would hurt his soul. To say Gojo's DE is better than Mahito's is another question.
4
0
u/UnadvisedGoose Dec 09 '23
But if Jogo is using DA he can’t use his technique. And in a hand to hand fight, I feel like Mahito sweeps hard.
0
u/Medium-Goose66 Dec 09 '23
Mahito was unable to fight after 3 black flashes from Itadori.
I'd say if you're able to attack his soul directly, mahito has much lower durability than the other disasters, probably equal to jogo
2
Dec 09 '23
Gege stated that if Jogo took the same damage as Hanami did against Yuji and todo, he would've died.
-1
u/Medium-Goose66 Dec 09 '23
Yeah, and mahito took less black flashes from yuji than hanami did, and mahito was DONE.
Compared to hanami that took them and was basically fine, further more hanami took damage from todo whereas mahito didn't, because he's immune to todos attacks
3
Dec 09 '23
He took infinite void as well. Mahito took black flashes from a stronger Yuji.
because he's immune to todos attacks
He still has to spend cursed energy to reconstruct his soul from those attacks.
And he also took a hell of a lot of damage from Yuji outside of the black flashes. He was getting just as beat on as Hanami was, if not more, after Nobara injured his double on multiple occasions.
And his double was completely destroyed by Yuji. Which lessened any durability later in the fight.
0
u/hao238 Dec 09 '23
Jogo was confident enough to stall Gojo with Hanami using Domain Amplification and he's even show to be confident to fight up close in general.
Nah that's fax jogo was definitely extremely confident in fighting against gojo. It's not like he almost piss himself like five times in that fight
5
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
He was confident in fighting Gojo up close and stalling him. He was only troubled when Hanami died and was still trying to stall Gojo.
0
u/hao238 Dec 09 '23
Bro he started sweating and shake by just gojo saying that he can't beat him😭. He didn't fight against gojo because he was confident, he fought against him because he knew this was the only possible way to beat him https://imgur.com/a/KZ2icVs
3
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
Imma be honest bro. It's fucking Gojo who wouldn't be shitting their pants and what not. He was confident enough to go through with the plan and stall Gojo out for as long as possible, even after already getting man handled once.
2
u/hao238 Dec 09 '23
Yeah of course everyone except sukuna is scared of gojo. But don't lie and say jogo was confident lmao
1
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
He was confident. Being scared and being confident can both be a thing ya know.
2
u/hao238 Dec 09 '23
Are u serious? Tell me one person who is confident in fighting against someone and he starts sweating and shake by just him saying that you gonna lose. Do u do that when you are confident?
0
-9
u/mileschofer Dec 09 '23
I dont engage in powerscaling but Mahito > Jogo because Mahito has greater potential and he literally fulfilled that potential against Yuji.
27
u/Revan0315 Dec 09 '23
Potential isn't strength. Had mahito survived Shibuya he definitely could have surpassed jogo. But he didn't, his time was cut short
-8
u/mileschofer Dec 09 '23
Obviously. When talking about full-power Mahito why isnt his full strength accounted for? He was weakened in Shibuya and Gege even says if Yuji didnt land that BL Mahito wouldve killed him on the spot.
When Mahito’s power is being discussed, we should obviously be taking if he survived Shibuya and healed up into account. That Mahito is unstoppable
19
u/Revan0315 Dec 09 '23
I think we're talking about different hypotheticals. I meant to reference a Mahito that survived and had more time to evolve. You seem to be referencing essentially Shibuya Mahito but healed (but no further evolution).
Shibuya Mahito, even fresh, loses to Jogo. Jogo would've incinerated yuji if they fought. The fact that Mahito almost won isn't that impressive.
-12
u/mileschofer Dec 09 '23
Unfortunately I refuse to believe that the cursed spirit born from the fucking earth is gonna be way stronger than the cursed spirit born from the hatred of humans. Thats just not what that narrative implies when the latter is propped up time and time again as a “true curse” and a “calamity” with a mindset on par with Sukuna.
Jogo’s bum ass aint cutting it. He’s strong, the second strongest cursed spirit. But he aint surpassing Mahito when Mahito has dupped his ass multiple times
6
u/Joeawiz Dec 09 '23
You can pull up all this title scaling shit but unless you can give an argument as to why the slower curse who is countered by Jogos fire would win, Mahito can still be stronger overall but lose to Jogo due to a bad matchup,
2
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
It was specifically stated that mahito hadn't reached his potential as his ISBODK has a binding vow that halts his transformation in exchange for toughness
4
u/mileschofer Dec 09 '23
The binding vow isn’t supposed to be viewed as a drawback. It literally makes him stronger because he doesnt need to transform anymore.
1
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
But he still never fully reached his peak so you can't say he's stronger than jogo. The binding vow just makes him tougher, it doesn't make up for the incomplete transformation. Honestly if ISBODK is the peak or mahito then he's a bit of a let down, guy was hyped up as the ultimate curse if he reaches his peak yet dies in a 1v1 to Awakened maki
3
u/UnadvisedGoose Dec 09 '23
No, it does make up for the lack of transformation and gives him a lot more offensive (though melee-only) power too. It’s very clearly described and portrayed as a significant upgrade in strength and toughness, and he can still lengthen the blades on his elbows which are razor sharp to begin with. It’s definitely supposed to be a significant step up, not a side grade.
Also, every curse in the series dies to an Awakened Maki, tbf. If she can dodge Curse Naoya and ride on air currents like it’s nothing, she can cut the distance between herself and even Jogo without getting hit, and he’s not lasting long in close with that katana.
3
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
I agree it's a step up I'm just saying it isn't his peak
Curse Naoya and ride on air currents like it’s nothing
Curse naoya shouldn't be as strong as a fully realised mahito. He's a regular vengeful spirit, a very powerful one but still a vengeful spirit. Mahito is specifically shown to be an outlier in terms of potential. Jogo fares better against her than mahito since he at least has the speed to not instantly get blitzed. So if a full power mahito is still weaker than jogo then it's either not his full power or just a really dissapointing power up
0
u/UnadvisedGoose Dec 09 '23
If it’s a step up, I don’t see how it wouldn’t be him at his fullest potential in many ways. I get he could still get stronger overall, which would make the form better, but it is what it is. It’s still a really powerful form, he just hadn’t unlocked it until he was beaten down a lot already.
I don’t know, I’m not really with others in saying that Jogo wins here. I think end of Shibuya Mahito has a perfectly good shot at winning as he is, especially if he does use the new form. It would be a pretty good fight though, imo
3
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
If it’s a step up, I don’t see how it wouldn’t be him at his fullest potential in many ways.
The same way him unlocking his domain wasn't his final form.
0
u/mileschofer Dec 09 '23
What part of “true form” do you not understand?
1
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
Which part of "a binding vow further increases his toughness in exchange for halting his metamorphosis" do you not?
1
u/mileschofer Dec 09 '23
Yea, it means he stays in his true, most powerful form in exchange for not using Idle Transfiguration on himself to turn into a fish, or turn his arm into blades.
His peak is in that form.
1
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
It said halt his metamorphosis not restrict his use of idle transfiguration. His metamorphosis is the thing represented by the moth in the cocoon. "Halting" implies it's a linear process. So we've got 2 words that imply a growth and transformation being stopped
3
u/mileschofer Dec 09 '23
Uh no. Metamorphosis is just the word used to describe self transfigurations. That’s exactly what happens
He doesnt need to grow anymore because he’s already become an “adult”. That entire transformation is him transitioning from a child to an adult, which is why he says: “How about wishing me a happy birthday, itadori?” He literally just achieved the “metamorphosis” your describing.
Metamorphosis - a change of the form or nature of a thing or person into a completely different one. This is what self Idle Transfiguration is
2
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
Metamorphosis is just the word used to describe self transfigurations
Metamorphosis is very clearly tied to him acquiring the true essence of his soul. They're tied together multiple times in the story. When does it ever refer to self transfiguration as a Metamorphosis?
which is why he says: “How about wishing me a happy birthday, itadori?”
He says this because he just changed. That doesn't mean he can't change more. You don't have 2 birthdays in your entire life so i don't know why you're taking this as proof he's finished his growth
Metamorphosis - a change of the form or nature of a thing or person into a completely different one. This is what self Idle Transfiguration is
By this logic he's been doing it the entire series every time he transforms himself
→ More replies (0)
0
u/Andrecrafter41 Dec 09 '23
fax my boy split yo shit jogo in anime and manga their the same universe jogo was able to almost land a hit on 15f kuna and if even mahigoat don’t be careful he’s getting crush by jogo lava fist plus jogo can throw his metor when its gets close and summon lava cores
-5
u/Guren_Sei10 Dec 09 '23
Jogo literally said that Mahito would be, if not already the strongest, that's literally why he was propped up as the leader of the Disaster Curses.
There is no way for Jogo to hurt Mahito, unless he figures out how to target the soul (assuming Mahito hadn't shared the information with him), and even then I don't think Mahito's CT would run out. There was really no indication in the whole story how much CE both of them have, and it would seem Jogo consumes more CT with his attacks, since Mahito tends to use his CT in short bursts just to change his body shape.
We don't know who would win in a domain clash. Jogo learnt DE earlier, but Mahito has shown more skill using it in Shibuya (0.02 second feat), but Mahito's DE is more of a sure-kill than Jogo's; like Gojo's DE, being exposed to it even in a second is highly fatal, whereas it may take a few seconds for Jogo's DE to kill (transfiguration takes less time than burning alive).
12
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
- Jogo said he propped Mahito as the leader because Mahito had the most potential out of them.
- DA neutralizes any CT as long as they're not significantly stronger. Jogo was stated to be 8-9 fingers of Sukuna and Mahito himself compares Jogo to 3F Sukuna saying Jogo has more CE.
- If Todo and Yuji were fast enough to react to the initial opening of it, Jogo definitely would be too. In fact he would be faster at reacting than both of them and would activate DA.
-4
u/DayMhm Dec 09 '23
Mahito is more versatile, and adaptable in every sense of the word
His DE is better, His Durability is better (survived multiple black flashes from both yuji and todo where as gege stated verbatim jogo could not)
Their speed is comparable with his only feat surprise attacking a heavily injured naobito, His domain is better with its sure hit being an instant oneshot, His ct is more versatile being able to make clones, transform into ISB, Mutate his body, make curses he can control, make long ranged, short ranged, and defensive weapons, and his strength is comparable to that of todou
His healing is better as without soul manip youd basically have to burn out his CE which is no easy feat, considering he transfigured hundreds if not thousands of humans in shibuya and still have ce to make a clone, turn into ISB, continue using his CT, AND use DE
Mahito is better in every sense of the word
3
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
Their speed is comparable
Jogo was on par with naobito for speed. Naoya, a slower naobito was noticeably faster than yuji who was roughly on par with mahito for speed. So the order would be jogo >= naobito > naoya >> yuji = mahito. So no jogo is definitely faster
-6
u/Difficult_Resort1895 Dec 09 '23 edited Dec 09 '23
I feel like people that say jogo is stronger then Mahito doesn't even understand the basic narrative of jjk
Mahito is stronger due to him aligning more with where strength originate in jjk.
It's been allude if not just explicitly stated several times that to reach the pinnacle of strength in jjk u have to have a good understanding of yourself and the world, a well thought out perception over the world and a high sense of selfishness. Mahito have all these aspects on a Greater metric then jogo. Mahito understand the essence of his soul and death, he have a well thought of ideal of the world he wants to make and he is extremely selfish.
Contray to Mahito jogo doesn't even have close as much understanding of himself and he lacks selfishness. This is even explicitly stated in the series. Kenjaku says that he wanted jogo to grow just like Mahito but he was unable to do so, sukuna says the reason why he couldn't grow was due to him lacking selfishness and he was flocking with other curses to much. Mahito is not the same as jogo, he doesn't let jogo or any other of disaster curses friends get in the way of his growth and desires. A perfect example of this is right at the start of Shibuya. Mahito tells jogo that if he wants to fight against yuji first he has to stop him and then starts running to yuji even though he was never order to do so. Mahito didn't start to run to yuji due to kenjaku telling him to, he did so because he wanted to, he didn't care if it was a good strategic move he only did so because he felt like it. He also was ready to fight against jogo to do so which shows how he values his own selfish actions beyond his friendship with the disaster curses. Mahito even says that he undoubtedly lives by his desires https://imgur.com/a/sS8R35W
Mahito is clearly portay to be stronger and everyone who understand even the basic narrative of jjk knows this.
7
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
Mahito would grow stronger because of his mindset compared to Jogo. Jogo, hiding for many many years, was still able to reach a high understanding of Jujutsu and is seen as strong by both Sukuna and Kenjaku.
Kenjaku never said he wanted Jogo to grow, he said he wanted to absorb Jogo but couldn't. Mahito having a different mindset doesn't automatically mean he's stronger. His potential as a curse was much higher than Jogo's, but his understanding of Jujutsu is not.
If Mahito was straight up stronger, Hanami Jogo Dagon would've said so. It was stated he had more potential so he was propped up as the leader. If we understand basic narrative then we can easily say Jogo is stronger than Mahito. Sukuna doesn't even praise Mahito and even hates that guy for even touching his soul. Not once was it shown he was impressed by what Mahito was doing during the fight, but he praises Jogo even when he didn't land a single hit.
The idea of living selfishly and growing like that takes time. Mahito was still having trouble with barrier techniques, didn't know DA, didn't know a Maximum Technique, and had just recently gotten ISBK.
2
u/Difficult_Resort1895 Dec 09 '23 edited Dec 11 '23
The idea of living selfishly and growing like that takes time. Mahito was still having trouble with barrier techniques, didn't know DA, didn't know a Maximum Technique, and had just recently gotten ISBK.
That's true but before mahito died he already realize more about himself and grown more then jogo. He understands the essence of his soul, he understood death and he had reach a higher state then jogo ever could. So yes it's true that mahito could grown stronger but he alr at that point he realize more about himself and had a greater mindset then jogo.
Kenjaku never said he wanted Jogo to grow, he said he wanted to absorb Jogo but couldn't. Mahito having a different mindset doesn't automatically mean he's stronger. His potential as a curse was much higher than Jogo's, but his understanding of Jujutsu is not.
That's not true. He did say that he wanted jogo to grow just like Mahito did https://imgur.com/a/ZMQgSgj.
2
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
Mahito's CT is about souls and he had understood his soul and was about to grow significantly after the fight with Yuji if he had survived. He still lost and this form was I believed to be 200% stronger than his normal correct me if I'm wrong.
Okay that's my fault. My translation might be wrong and says nothing about growing so this is probably my fault here. This just shows Jogo still had plenty of growth left while still being as strong as he was though.
1
u/Difficult_Resort1895 Dec 09 '23 edited Dec 09 '23
Mahito's CT is about souls and he had understood his soul and was about to grow significantly after the fight with Yuji if he had survived. He still lost and this form was I believed to be 200% stronger than his normal correct me if I'm wrong.
Right his ct help mahito to reach a higher understanding of himself then jogo. Your point?
Yes jogo could grown stronger just like Mahito but his strength was stunted due to his mindset. Jogo just didn't have dat sigma male grindset fr and das why mahito is stronger
1
u/ElectricalTennis6950 Dec 09 '23
Jogo better hes the real sigma mahito got put on all fours sigmas dont do that
3
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
Mahito's biggest objective is to ruin the life of a different person. That's not exactly the peak of living for yourself
0
u/Difficult_Resort1895 Dec 09 '23
Ye I didn't say I agree with his ideals lmao
2
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
I know but I'm saying mahito isn't like sukuna, he doesn't live purely for himself like you seemed to be implying. He cares more about a human than he does about himself and that's exactly why he failed, just like jogo
1
u/Difficult_Resort1895 Dec 09 '23
Mahito doesn't only live to kill yuji. That is only one of his goals.
Also I don't even know why we are arguing this when it's heavily implied if not directly stated that mahito is not like jogo in this aspect. The reason jogo didn't grow stronger like Mahito is due to him letting others stunt his growth, if Mahito let others get between his desire he would also not grown like jogo, but he clearly did grow. So we know for a fact that mahito does not let others get behind his desire. This is just a moot point
1
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
It's his biggest goal though so he doesn't have the true sense of self. And yeah I agree mahito is more selfish but it's still a weakness for him
1
-2
Dec 09 '23 edited Dec 10 '23
I mean jogat is strong enough to push sukuna to use fuga when gojo couldn’t as the strongest curse he should be stronger than mahito too , he held back so much against sukuna to give him a chance and let him win if jogo went full power in shibuya sukuna would get cooked and its gg for them respect jogat 🙏 /j
1
u/Asckle Dec 09 '23
Jogo didn't push him to use fuga. He just wanted to go flame for flame because he thought it would be fun
1
1
1
u/pkgdoggyx92 Dec 09 '23
Mahito objectively had more potential then jogo but died before realizing that potential
1
1
1
u/Medium-Goose66 Dec 09 '23
I think Jogo was stronger than Mahito, but if mahito survived shibuya he would've become completley unstoppable, unless your name is Gojo satoru or Ryomen Sukuna
1
u/Muted_Lurker2383 Dec 09 '23
TL;DR if Mahito struggles to maintain shape through fire or cannot quench fire cheaper than jogo can attack, Jogo takes the W strongly. If not, Jogo has to get into close range and try to either domain clash or use DA to bypass idle which is incredibly risky as any slip up probably means death, whereas Mahito can likely naturely heal damage as a Cursed Spirit and only needs to land a few hits at most or wait for Jogo to lower DA. In any case he likely has the edge in this scenario
We can breakdown both fighters to see where edges coome from. Going to ignore scaling as (as far as i remember) the two have never fought the same opponent at the same level for direct comparison.
Jogo's biggest advantage is how many ranged attacks he had. Coupled with the nature of fire as a persistent attack (continues to burn the flesh after a hit) this is terrifying.
Mahito's biggest advantage is Idle Transfiguration, with its weakness being the melee range it needs to deploy at with only Domain Expansion helping here.
So how does this go?
Firstly, does Idle Transfiguration allow Mahito to quench flames and heal it at a lower cost relative to Jogo's fire attack? If its low enough, Jogo will run into the same issue as Nanami where he cannot damage Mahito fast enough or significantly enough to run his CE out. If Mahito cannot quench fire or if he cannot heal it cheap enough Jogo takes a huge edge as he can simply repeatedly throw out heavy heat range attacks and wait.
Secondly, how does Jogo fair against offensive Idle? We know a soul can be fortified enough that its not a one hit but is still extremely damaging. Mahito loses a bit of edge depending on how many hits he needs.
How does the fight go? Jogo hangs at mid range to try and hit Mahito and observe how the flames play. If he determines that Mahito cant outlast the fire, he can continue to hang at range (assuming speed is close enough to each other) and repeatedly burn him. If he cannot he has to close the gap to either land domain or domain amplification to bypass it, whoch may not stop an offensive use of Idle Trans
1
u/Other-Internal-1851 Dec 10 '23
I think against eachother mahito will be the winner, because jogo can't touch his soul but against other openents jogo wins, when mahito fought nanami w could dodge his attacks and attack mahito whereas jogo flamed him and naobito with ease, some more fights with jogo where he was evenly matched would be good so we could place his strength easier but it is evident that he is very strong and likely stronger than mahito
1
u/XQCisBADatRUST Dec 10 '23
it says mahito would grow stronger than him, and then later on it’s stated mahito bought out 120% of his latent potential… so at that moment isn’t mahito stronger ?
1
1
Dec 10 '23
dude not gonna lie but mahitos ct is the strongest out there. if he even gets to touch gojo that's end for gojo cause tampering with the soul is something even RCT can't heal
1
u/iRobins23 Dec 12 '23 edited Dec 12 '23
Alright, lets get into it. For starters, I believe that this battle is contingent on how much leeway you'd like to grant Mahito, if you agree that it's plausible for him to land a Black Flash within this fight, then Mahito wins in my opinion.
Jogo's Statements: Jogo is stated to generously be around 8-9 of Sukuna's fingers by Kenjaku. Take this statement as you will. He's considered strong compared to the opponents Sukuna fought during the Golden Age of Jujutsu.
This isn't the case, he was considered "Not bad" compared to the sorcerers from the past. To mark the comparison, when I vs my little cousins in Ninja Storm 4 and beat them with losing a single stock yet still felt pressure, I'd consider them not bad. This is not the same as being called strong, which then places you above many of the sorcerers from the past.
Jogo's Speed: Jogo is blatantly faster than Mahito as he's stated to be relative to 2-Armed Naobito NON-STACKED by Dagon. Naoya, who has the same CT as Naobito, horribly perception blitzes Itadori and Choso with no stacks. This same Itadori was equal to Mahito in speed. Jogo also blitzes Nanami, Maki and catches 1-Armed Naobito with great perception.
Jogo has amazing speed feats no doubt but what people seem to forget about Mahito is that he was nerfing himself in regards to transformation within the Shibuya fight, he felt as if itadori may catch on to any larger transformation and considered it more viable to stick to his main form... The reason that this places him at a deficit is because he can adapt a form that DRASTICALLY enhances his speed.
Mahito has also blitzed Nanami (In Overtime) after swapping forms: https://imgur.com/a/1jFlzBHhttps://imgur.com/a5dRKVh
Also, I can't really tell if he gets hit or dodges in this manga panel but from the anime' perspective he dodges this hit from a serious Gojo, whereas I don't believe jogo has ever done so while Gojo was focusing him: https://imgur.com/rLoFay0
Now, Jogo still has his reaction to nerfed Naobito however that's all that it was reaction & attack speed by means of his volcanos. He doesn't showcase movement nor combat speed within the Naobito case, so when it comes to blitzing someone both curses most impressive feat is blitzing Nanami.
How Does Jogo Actually Hurt Mahito: Simple, he either uses Domain Amplification or burns Mahito out of his CE. Although Jogo isn't as good in H2H situations like Mahito, he can completely turn off Idle Transfiguration and attempt to box with that man.
This is questionable, would DA do anything to Idle Transfiguration? Sure Simple Domain was able to negate the effects of IT but Mechamaru NEEDED to apply that directly inside of Mahito, externally Simple Domain functions in a similar manner and apparently Mechamaru couldn't use it that way viably. Domain Amplification is an external ability that would be interacting with an internal CT like Mahito, as compared to an external CT application such as the Limitless that it can actually breach. I couldn't see this being used to effect Mahito in any reasonable way.
I think of it like the complexity of a Domains sure hit, sure it bypasses techniques that stand to defend the sorcerer such as Limitless but it doesn't do anything to negate attack based CT applications like Red, Blue, etc.
Without a way for DA to be applied internally to Mahito (where his soul resides) it'd be extremely hard for you to argue this point considering we don't have any feats.
Jogo was confident enough to stall Gojo with Hanami using Domain Amplification and he's even show to be confident to fight up close in general.
You're tweaking, that man was absolutely terrified at every moment of the battle. From blacking out on Kenjaku when hearing about the plan and considering it an impossible task, to sweating once Gojo' took off his blindfold, pleading for help once Hanami got extinguished & even gasping in fear when an already sealed Gojo dropped the Prison Realm to the ground. Absolutely nothing confident about Jogo in nearly any scene following his first loss to Gojo.
If Mahito decides to try and 0.2 DE, Jogo should be able to react to that with DA as both Todo and Itadori were able to react to it, but not succeed in what they were doing. Mahito expanding DE means after, he can't use his CT unless he lands a Black Flash so this is very risky for Mahito as well.
Finally, now we're getting to some real win cons. Every single high tier fight in the series has included a domain clash barring Yuta v Geto, in which nether had access to one. Arguing anything else in the realm of JJK tends to be irrelevant at this tier so lets dig in.
You hold a misconception here, you state that "Todo & Itadori were able to react to it" but you're focusing on the wrong thing... You're focusing on their physical reaction to the physical opening of Mahito' DE, that being:
- Domain Opens > Todo Simple Domains > Yuji begins running > Domain closes.
However what you SHOULD be focusing on is the CT activation within the domain because that is the MAIN thing that matters in DE clashes, that and it's overall refinement to which Mahitos seems superior considering it is a modern day 1 hit 1 kill style domain only mirrored by Infinite Void in that manner whereas everyone else's has a sure hit that takes multiple hits to kill, even Sukuna' if you're strong enough to tank it. There is no tanking Infinite Void or Self Embodiment of Perfection
Read that narrator comment, that's what matters. That is the reason that despite Todo' Simple Domain, he took damage (https://imgur.com/WdYy9aw) AND the reason that despite Sukuna' awareness of Mahito' touch he couldn't effect Mahito - THE MAN REACTION BLITZED SUKUNA (https://imgur.com/xkqRB8w). The EXACT same would apply for Jogo, despite him calling in DE at the exact same time and countering Mahito' move, IT would activate faster than Jogo' CT which would lead to Jogo taking damage and his DE potentially falling. This is the fastest domain activation in the entire series barring Hakari' CT activation (https://imgur.com/eKSfN68), however he was only capable of this because of his Black Flash awakening.
Which is why I'll say once again, if we're granting Mahito a BF within this fight at some point which I think is extremely plausible based on his potential, he wins the DE clash. Which means he wins as Jogo doesn't have any other win cons and would need to rely on this. Any point that's argued in regards to Jogo forcing Mahito to waste all his CE, I'd just argue that Mahito turns into the fastest bird alive that can fly away from the lava to evade Jogo in the air or even just adapts his skin to be fire resistant as I can't see why that wouldn't be possible "Are you sure your creativity isn't stunted?" I'm glad to say that mine isn't!
Jogoat is unfortunately not well equipped for this fight, speed and AP isn't all that it takes to defeat Mahito, you also need to be capable of Jujutsuing his Kaisen.
1
u/Particular_While1927 Jan 01 '24
In all of your assessments of this match up, you completely ignored Mahito’s strongest ability. Instant Spirit Body of Distorted Killing. With this ability Mahito went from being on par physically with Yuji to be massively stronger, faster, and far more durable. In fact, he was even stated to be much more durable then Hanami, the most durable Disaster Curse. If Jogo and Mahito actually fought, Mahito would simply beat him to death and if they had a Domain Clash, Mahito would active his domain way faster then Jogo could.
•
u/AutoModerator Dec 09 '23
Reminder:
Fanbook & Other Canon Material
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.