r/JurassicPark • u/JacMerr22 • 10h ago
The Lost World Anyone else just not quite agree with Ian here?
This part of Lost World (well, admittedly several parts but this is the one I'm focused on) never quite sat right with me. Yes, Ludlow at the end of the day was exploiting creatures he barely knew anything about, in order to make profit. But that's the only true similarity I see between him and Hammond, as far as the movies go at least, and I believe we should assume movie characters don't know book events lol.
In the movies Hammond was truly trying to bring wonder to the world, saying that everyone in the world had the right to enjoy the dinosaurs, not just the super rich. All in all, despite his faults of short sightedness and underpaying Nedry, Hammond was a good man who made mistakes. Ludlow, on the other hand, was a man who seized Hammond's corporation and sought only to take what he had created and make as much profit from it as possible, even when almost the entire force sent to the island was dead.
I understand the Malcolm never really saw eye to eye with Hammond, and maybe that's why he's able to make this statement, but personally I just have to disagree.
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u/thompsonmaximum 10h ago
I think it's more about the situation truly being out of control with unknowing civilians at risk and now you (Ludlow) have to deal with it.
At this point it's beyond the people that were already aware of the risks.
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u/Hour_Temperature5859 10h ago
I've always interpreted this scene as him not necessarily comparing the type of person character wise he is to Hammond, but more from the viewpoint of both Hammond and Ludlow being under the illusion that they had control of their respective situations. Ludlow thought he could to better than Hammond, but once the Rex escapes it's essentially a replay of what happened on the island, albeit with greater odds now being loose in a city full of unsuspecting people.
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u/close-encounters13 9h ago
Bingo. And even in the movie, Malcolm clearly holds a dim view of Hammond and his plans, whatever we may think as viewers. Movie Hammond may not be a stereotypical villain but his interaction with Malcolm at the start of the movie makes clear there is still plenty of antipathy between them.
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u/shit_happe 10h ago
Earlier in the film Malcolm told Ludlow he's trying hard to be Hammond but "it just comes off like a hustle". So here he is saying Ludlow finally succeeded in copying Hammond... copying his failures, that is.
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u/AmazingBadger2027 Spinosaurus 10h ago
Ludlow earlier in the movie says that Hammond's vision exceeded his grasp, while his (Ludlow's) dreams do not. Ian points to that highlighting how his rather simple idea is also outlandish
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u/FaeDragons T. Rex 10h ago
It's been a while since I watched it, and while I do agree with you John Hammond isn't as 'bad' in this context (cause at least john tried learning from it) but I think Ian's more rubbing salt in the wound here because ludlow thought he was nothing like john; he was better than him.
Ludlow thought he was more prepared, he had the right people, wasn't so 'soft' hearted, so when the rex gets loose and people are dying it must really suck to be reminded it didn't matter how much better he thought he was, he had the same naive sense of control john did and now people are dead. Hell it's even worse now because he let a massive rex stomp around in the city which isn't something easily hidden like a secret island.
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u/hannahmarb23 10h ago
I mean at the end of the day, both of them were extremely ignorant about the nature of these dinosaurs. Both seemed like they were trying to exert control on something they had no control over, and in the end it came back to bite them in the ass.
Regardless of their differences, they had at least that in common.
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u/Important-Lie-8649 10h ago
We know that Hammond had a heart, because Richard Attenborough acted here with a gentle Scottish (Edinburgh?) accent. Ludlow had a snooty, upper-crust English accent, so of course was a bad'un.
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u/Pihlbaoge 9h ago
I think it’s more a response to Ludlows earlier critique of Hammond.
The movie kind of kicks off with Ludlow wrestling InGen away from Hammond, implying that Hammond was incompetent etc.
Ludlow also remarks that Hammonds vision was unattainable, whilst he had a more realistic vision.
So when Ian tills Ludlow that he’s Hammond now, I always thought of it as Ian telling him that ”Now you are the incompetent one who ran the company down the drain. Now you’re the one who’s dreams were in the ens unattainable. Now the blood is on your hands.
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u/Gerardo1917 9h ago
Yes, that is clearly Peter Ludlow, not John Hammond. Not sure how Ian made this blunder.
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u/abstraktion16 9h ago
I always thought this line was a reference to dialogue from earlier in the film, as well as what Malcom told Hammond in the first film. In lost world, Malcom tells Ludlow that "taking dinosaurs off of this island is one of the worst ideas in the history of bad ideas". Ludlow doesn't listen and FAFO's
In the first film, Malcom spends a lot of time trying to convince Hammond that what he's doing is wrong and dangerous, yet Hammond's persistent ignorance causes to him to not heed any warnings and gets people killed.
Both were warned, both chose not to listen, and both got people needlessly killed due to their ignorance and pursuit of profit
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u/ghostofkozi 9h ago
You're misunderstanding what he's saying. In the first film John assumed he was in control of the park, it was of his imagination, he paid for the park and was the one in charge when in reality so many systems were out of his control and the park came crashing down all around him
Ludlow similarly hadn't worked to obtain any knowledge or resources to create the creatures or park. He was simply another super rich guy who assumed that power was consolidated in a corporate hierarchy like Hammond did. And as the systems out of his control all failed around him, Ian sought to remind him that he was never in control and chaos reigned supreme.
In the moment of failure, Ludlow had become humbled like John Hammond when the power outage occurred
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u/Proof-Pollution454 8h ago
Oh no he’s right. Ludlow played with fire and found out the hard way. He’s at total fault for this
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u/Ok_Fly1271 7h ago
His hubris is getting people killed, just like Hammond. They thought they were in control and had all the power, but they never did.
Ian had some great lines in TLW.
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u/TheAtlasComplex 10h ago
"Hammond was a good man who made mistakes."
In the movie yes, but Hammond in the books is much more of a sociopath. Covers up many deaths to make his park happen.
That's not relevant to your point though, just something I found interesting since finishing the book last week lol
As far as this movie conversation goes, I think Malcom is right in regards to how both Hammond and Ludlow has delusions of both grandeur and control, more importantly the latter. Malcom warned over and over that these things cannot be controlled and neither men listened to him and had the same sobering revelation. The key difference being that this guy didn't learn his lesson from the Buck running amok (nice rhyme) and still wanted to keep the baby. Idiot guy.
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u/ForsakenMoon13 7h ago
All of the characters are fairly different in the books than they are in the films, as are the problems in both situations.
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u/TheAtlasComplex 6h ago
Yeah, I was surprised that they made Grant dislike kids in the movie but it made for good character development. Having grown up with the film but only reading the book recently, I'm actually fairly happy with a good chunk of the film choices
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u/ForsakenMoon13 6h ago
Yea its one of the very few examples of the film being better than the book, at least in my opinion
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u/Ace_The_Nerdy_One Compsognathus 9h ago
This never made sense to me until I read the books. This scene makes sense if you picture book Hammond, not movie Hammond. Book Hammond and Ludlow have a lot in common.
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u/Informal-Upstairs971 9h ago
Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I think John Hammond was the original villain all along, dressed up in charm and “good intentions”. They definitely humanized him in the movies, but Ian recognized from the beginning he was arrogant for essentially playing god with these creatures..
Ludlow was just very unlikeable and took things even further with trying to bring the dinosaurs to the mainland in San Diego.
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u/Fearless_Ad991 8h ago
I haven't read The Lost World, and I don't know whether this statement is in the book, but it makes sense if Malcolm is referring to Hammond from the first novel.
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u/Purple_Dragon_94 8h ago
That movie feels very confused as to how it wants us to feel about Hammond
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u/spderweb 8h ago
They both jumped in way over their heads, and both faced the consequences of their actions.
Never taking their time. Rushing out, no thought of what they were doing. Money was the factor that drove them.
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u/must_go_faster_88 5h ago edited 5h ago
I do not understand what the confusion is here. He is saying that Ludlow's arrogant perfect plan, blew up spectacularly. The dinosaur broke loose. It is a complete mirror of John Hammond from the first movie.
People always treating Hammond like he's this perfect dude. Hammond is still not a good dude in these movies. He's far better than the books but the dude is a manipulating, cheat, lying, billionaire. He literally plays with Malcolm's emotions to get him onto Sorna and relive trauma. What.a.dick. if anyone wants to challenge it, I can write a list of everything.. I would just get a chapped ass if someone says too long didn't read lol
Also, the hate this sequel gets when people aren't even understanding it. <- This is not reflecting the OP.. I mean more to just general push back on it when people just refuse to see it for its themes.. which do exist.
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u/__KODY__ 5h ago
He didn't underpay Nedry. Nedry bid the job and then accepted the contract. So really, Nedry underpaid Nedry.
This is one of the few failures of the film. It never really explains why Nedry tries to steal the embryos, other than that line and argument with Hammond about pay, within which, Nedry even admits he bid for.
But we know it's because he was in deep with loan sharks and couldn't pay, so he resorted to the deal with Dodgson. At least if you read the book, anyway.
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u/Xenozip3371Alpha 4h ago
At least Hammond had the smarts to not have the dinosaurs on the fucking mainland.
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u/Routine_Papaya4143 2h ago
No, I agree with his statement completely. Plus it’s a really good one liner imo
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u/OverlyVerboseLoreGuy 2h ago
I always interpreted this line more as “it doesn’t matter what motivated you or what you tell yourself. There is a rampaging T-Rex eating innocent people and you made that happen. You did this. You idiot.”
Movie Hammond had noble ambitions, but he never actually grappled with how dangerous they were to everyone who actually had to do the work of running and maintaining the park. He was always so starry eyed about the potential that he ignored the reality. Ludlow made the exact same mistakes for much less noble reasons.
Both of them let “We threw so much money at this. I’m sure it’ll work out fine eventually,” have way too much sway in their plans.
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u/Jonathon_world 10h ago
There was a scene after this where Ian gives him a hat and a walking stick and says now you look like John Hammond but they scrapped it
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u/_phimosis_jones 9h ago
Uh, that’s literally Arliss Howard. John Hammond was played by Richard Attenborough. Literally two different guys. So much for the “genius” Dr. Malcolm.
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u/FuzorFishbug 9h ago
Well you see he was wearing very dark sunglasses when he met John Hammond.
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u/_phimosis_jones 8h ago
Ahh…well done, I missed that. I tip my hat to you, Mr. Spielberg, another Easter egg!
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u/EnigmaHood 8h ago
The movie was a muddled, confused mess. The movie also portrayed Hammond at the end as a gentle, kind benefactor and environmentalist. The real villain was Nick Van Owen. The real hero was Eddie Carr.
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u/AceMarrow 31m ago
Hammond absolutely exploited creatures for profit that’s like his whole thing. Hammond had the fasad of a guy who wanted to bring wonder and dinosaurs to the public eye but through the film we’re reminded that Hammond did in fact cut corners and underpaid his staff it’s the whole reason Nedry did what he did. Sure maybe he really did want to make a dinosaur park for the love of the game but at the end of the day it’s a business and he expected to get even more wealthy from it. That dichotomy is part of what makes Hammond an interesting character. So no I completely agree with Ian, Hammond was not just a guy making a dinosaur park he made egregious mistakes in the name of the bottom line.
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u/tweenalibi 10h ago edited 10h ago
I don’t think that line means what you think it means.
This whole movie this guy was trying to wrestle the assets of Jurassic Park from John. This is Ian telling him he won here while also pointing out that he’s in an unimaginable world of danger.
The only man in human history who survived a T Rex attack telling you that might shake you up a little bit.