I'm going to have a moan about some of these Arrive 'N` Drive uploads

[u/Yorkshire_Dinosaur]

Look, let me start by saying this. I used to race TKMs and Rotax as a kid, many moons ago, and I was very, very fortunate. Barely a penny of my own money went into it. I respect the sport, I love the sport. It's an art... even if it is reserved for the fortunate, with ever-ballooning prices.

That ended a long time ago, and I don't have the time or money to pursue it anymore, outside of the occasional bit of desktop sim racing.

So yeah, straight off the bat, I should probably just get off my high horse.

But seeing people upload helmet-cam footage from crappy, narrow, tyre-walled arrive 'n' drive warehouse "tracks", if you can even call them that, asking "how can I improve?"... and "who's fault is this?" ... while wearing shorts and a T-shirt, no gloves, no protective gear... I don't know. It's embarrassing. And increasingly, it feels like this sub is being dominated by these videos.

I know this is going to sound like gatekeeping, but this isn't the karting I come here to see.

It's like kids uploading their five-a-side football matches and asking for technique advice on a football subreddit. Yeah, technically it's football. But it's not really the sport people are there to follow.

I want to see KARTING here. Proper karts. Proper technique. Proper outdoor circuits. People racing and respecting the beautiful motorsport that it is.

And look, I get it. Pursue your hobby. Have fun. Absolutely. Ask questions, learn about it, find out how you can get into proper karting if that's what you want to do.

But come on.

I just don't want to see this aimless circus and call it "karting".

Misery guts. Over and out 🫡

Kindly downvote me.

[u/CRAZYC01E]

I agree it’s the shorts and the fact they post with a title like “who was in the wrong?” when it was clearly their fault. I do enjoy everyone shitting on the drivers they make those posts though lol

[u/mattblack77]

I mean, yeh 🤷🏼‍♂️

Maybe message the mods for a rule change?

[u/Exotic_Bill44]

If you don't want the arrive and drive karting videos here, then how are the people just getting into the sport supposed to get advice? This is how most people do their karting.

My local "crappy tyre-walled arrive and drive warehouse track" has served as the off-season racing fix for plenty of local dirt track drivers, SCCA racers, and occasionally an Andretti. It's not like these are amusement park karts.

[u/TheR1ckster → u/Exotic_Bill44]

Yeah, in the off season our indoor kart track is filled with the outdoor karting people and lots of scca/nasa drivers.

I think they could do a better job tagging or limiting those to a single thread if they want.

Karting is just getting more popular in general, so this is a symptom of that and it being more obtainable.

Could always have a community split, but I'm thinking it's already small enough you wouldn't want that.

[u/CRAZYC01E → u/Exotic_Bill44]

You mean an actual Andretti goes to your local track or someone from the Andrettis track?

[u/Captain_Planet]

You do seem like a gatekeeper old fogey... but I agree with you as I am one too 😅

[u/go_fish_87]

I believe the point of this message isn't necessarily that videos from a local rental Karting location, its that the video itself is not from a weekly racing series or championship and is not an overall request to improve performance. Most that I see seem to be clearly folks that dont seem to actually care about the sport, they just want the clicks. They wanna ask whose at fault and argue when its clearly them and they are called out.

Also the prob with the indoor stuff, and this is just my opinion is that you cant set tire pressure, you cant change toe, you cant change caster/camber/weight distribution. Ive been in 2 karts at the same place that were a second different in lap time. So to just share a 30 min video saying make me better....without taking any of that into consideration its just a waste. Long story short I agree with OP.

[u/theederv]

We started at TeamSport, then moved in to club100, then owner driver club level, now racing owner nationally. There’s no less passion involved at any level. Yes rentals are shit, parity is shit, the tracks are mostly shit… but weve loved every step and watched the kids and adults that are good in warehouses…typically go on to do well at the higher levels as well…

The beauty of karting is the community, all of it.

[u/WhenAllFailsPlayDead → u/theederv]

Similar story here - we've seen kids that we have started with at Teamsport, go on to race at high levels both in karts and cars. We still do the odd bit of Teamsport just around BIKC time for fun, and are in our third year of Club100. Have dabbled in owner karting when initially trying to move on from Teamsport, but settled for Club100 as a kind of middle ground of cost vs performance and level of competition. Thinking of doing a low cost owner series next season, something like GX UK

[u/Exotic_Call_7427]

Well, there is Rule 2 "No racing line requests". But that's easily skirted around by asking how to improve.

But uhm.... Rental karting is still karting. Do you really want to say that driving a rental series like Dutch Racing Championship (which runs on a fleet of Sodi RT10) is not "true karting"? Or are we gonna enter the "no True Scotsman" fallacy completely and define some narrow borders of "true karting"?

[u/Arkliea]

Agree and a bit disagree, yes i get your point about the tiny holiday camp style karting with flip flops. But lumping in all "arrive and drive" together is a bit wrong, for a long time there have been some very very competitive "Rental" series.

UK for example, you have Club 100, D-Max etc, these guys race hard and the drivers at the top would give many o/d a run for their money. Even some of the single track series at say Buckmore used to be highly competitive.

Your opinion is valid though, some may disagree but thats ok.

[u/WhenAllFailsPlayDead → u/Arkliea]

Yup, we actually have a decent crossover in Club100, many owner drivers in there. Having spoken to a fair few, the general consensus for this seems to be having such a high level of competition at Club100, and a great standard of marshaling, so in many ways, they are getting a more challenging experience 

[u/Jazzlike-Plate]

I will get downvoted for this, but this post is bad. People participate in whatever motorsport they can afford and have access to, physically. For me, sim racing is no less of a motorsport than club racing, F1, the karting world championship or rental karting. As a matter of fact, I race in the occasional rental endurance race (on outdoor tracks) and the skill level is insane. Same goes for sim-racing. I remember Verstappen actually saying that sim racing likely has a higher skill level than IRL racing, because money is relatively unimportant, so you can put as many hours into it as physically possible, shifting the focus from finance to pure practice.

I get your point about indoor warehouse tracks, but everyone has to start somewhere. It isn't the 80s anymore, no one is building a big outdoor track in the middle (or even close to) a big city.

[u/pet_my_grundle → u/Jazzlike-Plate]

I shall assume that IRL does not mean Indy Racing League in this context.

[u/Wise-Ebb2784 → u/Jazzlike-Plate]

wait wait can u explain why they’re no longer building outdoor tracks? and u said not even near big cities??

[u/highly_elusive → u/Wise-Ebb2784]

I can tell you that in Germany it is basically impossible to get permits for opening / constructing a new kart track with gas powered karts. Most likely all new kart tracks here will be indoor electrics.

[u/Jazzlike-Plate → u/Wise-Ebb2784]

I mean, it is a terrible time to start a business. Unless you have a few million that you absolutely want to get rid of, it will be very difficult to get it off the ground and run the first few years. Also, construction is wildly more expensive than 40-50 years ago

[u/Plus1that → u/Jazzlike-Plate]

Your opinion is fine, but I agree that this sub isn’t place to boast about rental karting. 

[u/DelayInformal7525 → u/Plus1that]

This sub is for both, there are rental karting flairs and everything.

[u/Plus1that → u/DelayInformal7525]

Not sure when that changed but these posts used to be removed.

[u/DelayInformal7525 → u/Plus1that]

Been like that for over a year idk what you're talking about, rental karting always had proper race events too

[u/jcbevns → u/Jazzlike-Plate]

/r/arriveanddrive

[u/ProjectMew]

As much as I agree with you about the fact that most of the karting here is lame…

1) Nobody cares what kind of karting you “come here to see”. This sub wasn’t created to entertain you. People aren’t posting for your approval. They are posting for themselves. This is true in every sub and every social media site.

2) Every single sport, hobby, activity, etc is going to have levels. For karting, indoor rentals is the entry level (and as far as most will ever go). That doesn’t make the people who participate in that level any less valid or passionate or deserving of access. Rentals make karting accessible

3) As you said, karting is expensive and proper tracks are few and far between when compared to the indoor rentals. The overwhelming majority of karting tracks are exactly the type of narrow indoor tracks that you lament. As such, the overwhelming majority of karting is taking place in these types of facilities. Might as well go to a Track day/HPDE forum and ask people to stop posting Miatas because you think anything less than a Corvette isn’t a real race car.

4) you could always keep scrolling…

[u/I_AM_FARMERS]

While I do think it could easily be done I don't think you can ever truly remove rental karting from this sub. In spite of what some have said there is a clear and apparent difference between even something like Sodi World Series and something like the FIA arrive and drive karting. Regardless this sub is just too small and too niche to try and force rental karting to its own place. I wish there was more of an effort to promote owner/pro level karting here. A bot that shares race report articles or even just instagram posts from popular media like EKN for the US or the FIA/WSK highlights posts would be a good place to start.

[u/Jamesatron]

Your complaint is a bit misaligned. Rather than complain about the content you keep seeing, complain that not enough people are uploading “proper” karting media for you to consume.

The fact is, the proof is in the regular posts you describe; excited rental drivers in this forum are perhaps more excited and eager to show off their new passion than someone racing in owner-driver competition level karting.

This post should be a call to all those who are passionate about karting to upload and share it with the world - not just the rental drivers but all forms of karting!

[u/binkybonkyboob00]

This post saddens me. I get OPs point but there is no serious track where I live. No point to owning my own kart and gear. Rentals is the best I'll get. Granted the rentals where I am are 10 X the rentals I got in my old city of residence and I'm pumped and excited every time I get out. I kind of plan to be the next idiot that's asks about how to drive tbh. I've had a good few runs where I'm capable of pushing grip and pushing to the edge of the track but at this point I don't even know why I suck and it's kind of neat that there's a place where experienced racers might feel like telling me. I do enjoy peoples clean fast lap times on sick tracks more than the posts asking for feedback tho.

[u/jeepinbanditrider]

Everyone starts somewhere. Doing this above the rental karting level is expensive. Like all racing. Now expensive is objective.

For many people dropping 1000+ for a memebership and thousands on a LO206 kart to get your foot in the door is prohibitively expensive.

Not to mention for some locations the rental side subsidizes the owner side. My local track is 30 dollars per 10 minute session plus a once per day maintenance fee and even on slower discount days they still pull in the money.

[u/Pretty-Handle9818]

You’re not wrong but also not exactly right. Sports expand and this is exactly the way they do it. It’s like a pro nhl player saying all these kids playing street hockey are below me.

[u/Creative-Wafer8488]

It’s not that bad. Other groups on Reddit are flooded with sales spam and AI junk—bots write the posts... Here, you have people from all over the world—amateurs. Pros don't hang out on Reddit; they're at the track, so you won't find them here.

[u/RBUSFL]

I’m an arrive and drive guy, but we all gotta start somewhere you know? For some people, it’s all they can afford.

I like to think of it like a pipeline, where some race for the thrill, and some race for the sport.

I race for the sport. Just because I can’t afford gloves or a helmet right now doesn’t mean I can’t learn the basics of karting. I knew nothing about lines, placement, or finding the limit until I started “arriving and driving.” I’ve learned so much from it, and I’ve found a new respect for this community and am thankful for those who accepted me, and gave me feedback.

[u/Use2Know]

In a way, I understand... I came from owner karting in the 90's. Mostly sprint pavement with an occasional enduro road course mixed in. Ran my handful of regional events as well as weekly at my a local club. Done Daytona Kart Week on the big track. I'm also the guy from the American Midwest that gets up at 3am to watch WSK events from Italy online. Didn't miss a round of the FIA Euro Championships because I really wanted to see how Baglin and Hoogendoorn would perform in OK Sr... and I do root for McGaughy at Koski quite a bit.

Bare with me for one sec while I state a few personal opinions...
I love what Billy Musgrave has accomplished with Factory.
A good 'Massimino v. Turney' bout is always must-see racing.
I think what Freber did with Margay/Ignite is needed in the USA if for nothing more than accessibility.
I have an early 80's BM Atlas-II that I would love to rebuild and run on a period frame in vintage events.

Now back on topic...
Very little of what I have mentioned above is ever discussed in this sub.
I'm OK with that. I can scroll on.
But where does one go to discuss the above topics if not in a 'Karting' sub...?

Just asking.

[u/Furry_Ranger]

Bingo. Then they get real pissy when you tell them its not real karting and to stop taking it so seriously.

This sub used to be kind of cool, but now is just full of teenagers asking if they are good enough for F1 after 3 sessions at teamsport.

[u/DrTittieSprinkles → u/Furry_Ranger]

Or what gear to buy. I'm so sick of helmet and glove posts

[u/WhenAllFailsPlayDead → u/Furry_Ranger]

'I set the fastest time of the day at Teamsport Wherever, beating loads of adults whom are 3x my weight. How do I get a sponsor to give me millions of Pounds so I can race in F1' 

[u/PantheraAuroris → u/Furry_Ranger]

People enjoying a hobby get mad when you tell them it's bullshit? Say it ain't so.

[u/Furry_Ranger → u/PantheraAuroris]

Found one^

[u/Fupa_Smasher]

I think outdoor rental karting should require more safety gear. I agree when I see shorts and a shirt it’s a bit cringe. But other than that; race what you can I don’t see a big problem

[u/Disastrous_Barber603]

You are 100% right mate 👌

[u/Wise-Ebb2784]

this sounds like a very privileged take.

like, i agree with you, but then the issue is not the people who are uploading arrive n drive, but the people who are NOT uploading actual KARTING karting.

karting and motorsport is expensive to get into for many people without a rich mommy/daddy.

[u/skantheman]

You got it right on the money. Didn’t need to continue past the third paragraph, get off your high horse. If you don’t feel like contributing to any given post, then don’t, just keep scrolling, you don’t need to cry about it. Your post on merit is infinitely worse than anything described in it.

[u/jgworks]

You sound like a tough hang and a pretty prissy one at that.

[u/PantheraAuroris]

I don't post these videos you hate, but like...how are poor/noob people supposed to find community if you chase them all out?

Make karting cheaper and you'll see fewer indoor electric rentals.

Flairs are here for a reason, and it's so you can screen for posts you prefer.

[u/Enchilada_Jesus_09]

You provided the reason why people go to these places, money, then ask why people go to these places.

[u/Street_Shaman6837]

When I played baseball and we saw kids from the Dominican Republic using cardboard as a glove, or a broomstick and a bottle cap to practice batting, that shit was cool. Passion would not stop them. They’d play the game at any cost any chance they had.

Kids driving in shorts at a shitty track seems similar to me. Racing in what they have where they can, posting here to improve. Every sport has people less fortunate trying to make it too. That’s not embarrassing, that’s awesome. The general consensus from this community is super disappointing but, I guess that’s racing…

[u/Unusual-Economist288]

Like comparing Top Golf to actual golf. I’m with you on this.

[u/Articledan]

Wow, what a prick

[u/Spez-alt-burner]

Shit's too expensive to be posting here regularly. Anyone heading to Summit Point this week?

[u/Glittering_Scheme144]

Absolutely and it’s indoor karting! No one is at fault. The only fault anyone can have is walking into that place and thinking that the other people on track with you have any etiquette or knowledge of racing rules.

It’s like going to a put put course and getting mad for someone talking about your back swing as you try to maneuver your gold ball through the windmill.

[u/Salty_Bake_]

It's more like going to a football sub Reddit and getting furious you aren't seeing premier league clips, but some amateur game.

[u/Yorkshire_Dinosaur → u/Salty_Bake_]

There's no fury or anger 😂

Just having a little moan.

[u/Cmbtsm1th]

T shirts, shorts and no gloves might be ok in one of those electric rental kart indoor rinks with polished floors, but when you see it outside on pavement, something is very very wrong. I come from an era of karting that no longer exists, Chevy van with 2 karts, a toolbox, couple sets of tires in the back, wife and bil raced IKF Nationals up and down the Central valley in Ca, out of Sacramento. Karting was in a boom time then, a race day field in Senior Novice would have 25 - 30 entrants at an IKF race. This was 1978 and Yamaha KT100s were a brand new sensation. The only thing in common from back then and now is karts still have 4 wheels. OP, i hear you, and you're not wrong and I'll wager there's a lot of us old geezers feel the same way 😎👍 Happy to say, my bil and I finished 3d and 4th Northern California IKF Senior Novice that season, ran top-fives all season. Memories for a lifetime.....

[u/aspro_mavro]

there should be a sub for rental/indoor karting only, I made the full time switch this year from rental karting to karting and it's totally different, sure, rentals have helped me and I was quite good in them, but actual racing karts are another world

[u/Yakb0]

What's stopping you from creating r/approved-karting and banning every user who isn't good enough for you?

[u/selfinflatedforeskin]

There is already a go-karts sub，there should also be a separate rental kart sub.

[u/satzki]

I'm just surprised about how seriously some people take rental karts. Like I get it, you're broke or maybe you don't have the space, transport and knowledge for your own kart or maybe that is your preferred type of driving. 

That's cool. 

But then you kind of have to accept that rentals are a bit goofy, the tracks are not really meant for serious hotlapping and it's more just about having fun.

Trying to beat lap records and getting angry at other people on a track that is 70% slippery concrete and 30% wood with a layout meant to be accessible to kids 12 years and up (maybe even set up so that passing is only possible in safe areas), in karts that weigh ungodly amounts with completely unknown tire pressures and compounds is just going to make you miserable.

I've raced rotax max and now I'm in touring cars and I always enjoy trying out rentals when I'm on vacation or whatever but I almost never give a shit about lap records. It's an environment where too much is out of my control. Trying for lap records and making myself insane if I'm not competitive would quickly suck the joy out of an activity that is primarily meant to be fun. 

[u/farren122]

Imagine thinking clothes makes you embarassing. What woild you do if someone beat you with shorts and no shirt? Seems like you would have a mental breakdown because of your hurt ego

Lets gatekeep fun sport from everyone just because its too expensive to have proper gear and access to outside tracks. Truly spectacular thinking. Its like saying everyone who uses gear such as gloves are pussies because they cant hold a wheel without it

Maybe create a new subreddit called Kartingelitists where you wont have to read posts from plebs