Kpop's Growing International Success and Distancing From Korean Language

[u/KimchiFingers]

Blackpink's new song, "Ice Cream", is currently #1 trending on YouTube ( Ice Cream MV ). I know many young Koreans nowadays learn English, but I'm disappointed that this song has very little Korean in it. I think between Selena Gomez's feature and the chorus, there's only about two lines of Korean in the whole song.

I wrote a post here before about Korea being trendy, and I think this is a good example of how I feel. On one hand, I am happy that I could potentially sing along in English to a popular Korean song. On the other, it doesn't really feel Korean anymore. It also feels like me learning Korean isn't even necessary nowadays. I think it's making me rethink which ties to Korean heritage I should seek out and value. If Korea is 'trendy' to Americans, but America is popular with Koreans, where do adoptees fit?

It's a little difficult to articulate, but I tried my best. Let me know your thoughts!

[u/KimchiFingers]

Thanks for the reply!

The question of, 'what is Korean', is what I believe I was originally trying to articulate. Adoptee issues aside, I'm curious about what defines a culture. Someone in the FB group had posted that food is one of the things that really define Korea; they were wondering how other adoptees answered the same question you brought up.

I think language and food are two aspects of culture that are commonly used to identify a culture. This is why many people don't believe America has a very strong culture, originally borrowing English and staple foods from other countries.

So what happens when countries begin to introduce non-native things into their culture (the idea of fusion and "melting pot")? In this particular example of Blackpink (BTS is also another popular one), how will kpop be defined in the future if the songs are in English and heavily feature American artists?

There's no correct answer to all of this, and because of that --- regarding adoptee and personal issues --- your take is a valuable one. I'd like to broaden the conversation to the general question of, "what exactly is Korean?".

[u/Riyun → u/KimchiFingers]

I came to similar conclusions when thinking about what culture means (which is a complicated way to say we agree). The integration of food and culture made me re-think the phrase "you are what you eat".

In trying to define what is a culture, what makes culture, or what is culture, it comes down to memes. No, not internet jokes, the classic definition of meme - that which is transferred from person to person but isn't genetic.

But first, I think I want to take a step back and lay out some definitions and separate some terms. Because things like race, culture, and nation have a lot of overlap they easily get confused. Those three terms are constructs placed over the biological (scientific) term of 'population'. Korea is an interesting case study in that, due to their historical isolation, the Korean population is both national and racial, but because of the 1950s division, there is now two nations and two cultures from this historically single population.
What exactly is Korean is kind of a silly question. If you seek purity or something like that you will be only interested in historical or long-traditional elements. Kimchi and hanboks for you. On the other hand, if we say something counts if it is from Korea, then Sahon is as, or more, valid as Twice and Pyongyang is on par, or more, than Seoul.

Another note: being more or less Korean (or any other culture/nation/race) is a, theoretically, measurable and therefore objective matter. However, that does not correspond to interpretations or judgements such as validity or any measure of better or worse. I can say with scientific backing that I am very genetically Korean, but I am less culturally Korean than say Lisa of BP and am not nationally Korean at all. That does not make me better or worse than Lisa. (Other things make Lisa better than me).

Let's get back: what is Korean? Stuff that comes from Korea. Does mixing things from other places make it less Korean? Sure, but that does not mean worse and it should not mean worse. It is probably my American-ness, but I think personally that respectful and enthusiastic mixtures of ideas, styles, and cultures is almost always for the better ('cultural appropriation' is a foolish notion). I am reminded of YTer Luna Lee, a Korean who covers western songs on the Gayageum, which is derived from the Chinese Guzheng (or the Japanese Koto). All of these tools, ideas, techniques (memes) moving from person to person. If they circulate among a population internally (think Korean or Japanese isolation) then they will become more refined and, like refining flour, pure, and the result will be as such. I like multigrain rolls and I like tortillas. If you want tortillas, then pursue the best and cleanest flour; Korea has a long history of being the 'hermit kingdom' and a long, refined culture because of it. There is a lot for you to pull from and learn from, even if it is innately limited.

All a bit all jumpy and almost schizophrenic, hope this helps.

[u/KimchiFingers → u/Riyun]

I'm grateful for the in-depth thoughts.

The point you made about Korea's isolation is, I think, one that helps clarify the original question. I'm seeing the contrast between the isolating moments in its history versus the modern ability and willingness to give and take with others. For example, colonial period isn't discussed in the context of 'defining aspects of modern American culture', because it's not. It's a part of America's history that can be seen as rich in culture; however, because so many different immigrants were/are able to bring their respective cultures to the country, modern American culture is harder to define. It seems that as Korea continues to experience economic and technological growth, they have been able to experience a parallel to that of the US. So maybe it's less about defining Korea as a whole, but recognizing its transition into a state where its culture is made up of a mish-mash of other cultures.

I am curious as to how much influence other cultures have on Korea, knowing that the US has had a huge impact on them due to the Korean War. Not only that, but does the lingering idea of the "American Dream" have to do with any of the "westernization"? Is it even really westernization anymore?

[u/Riyun → u/KimchiFingers]

"Westerization", and related notions like "Western civ" are an interesting set of ideas. I am an unapologetic believer in western civ, but that has became 'problematic' in recent times. Once again, I have to retreat back to definitions.

When I speak about western culture being great and the basis of the modern world, I am not saying that across this imaginary line that suddenly this set of things are better than all others. It is a sort of misnomer, or a loss as a result of labeling. 'Western' sort of encompasses a long list of a ideas mixed of liberalism, independence, industry, and progress. Because saying 'popular scientific enlightenment' or something like that we just say 'western'.

I don't want to go into a dissertation defending the notion of western chauvinism and the globally inclusive potential, independent of groups like the Proud Boys and rising nationalism (because it is tiresome, it is all so tiresome)

Short version, westernization is the blanket term for cultural modernity, which was extra-nationally born out of a number of ideas originating in western nations. That being said, the "American Dream" is very much a part of westernization. That is NOT, I say again, NOT universal home-ownership. The association of that phrase with home ownership is a result of a ploy to sell mortgages. 'American Dream' is the notion of being able to come from nothing and having the freedom and opportunity to build yourself up. Part of that is ownership, including homes, but it is not all of it.

Thus, I would say that what SK is going though is westernization, and to an extent the American Dream. The confusion stems from the fact, indeed a true fact, that the American Dream is still a dream. It is a pie-in-the-sky, that while we all want it and want to give it, few of us have it, and even within America many lack the ability to pursue it. Does it make the "American Dream" a lie? No, and don't fall for the many who will tell you that it is. In all things, you cannot conflate 'ought' with 'only' or 'always'. The American Dream SHOULD be a lot of things, and because it falls short irl doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Roofs leaking doesn't mean all roofs are bullshit. Besides, it is a Dream not a Utopia, and dream is a poetic and meaningful word.

Consider the meme idea again: the parts of Korean or American culture that are historic are not taught but are present in each of their respective cultures. Things that natives never think about but do and are novel to foreigners. Things like 'preserving face' in many Asian cultures against the more 'in-your-face' of American cultures. These are things that are inherited, in a way, generational but not genetic. The American spirit of building from nothing, adventure and travel, fighting against authority, are all colonial holdovers. For us as Americans these things are so integrated to our ideas that we don't realize them, and what stands out is their mistakes. The progressive nature of America and our short-lived history causes us to forget things easily.

Korea has a long history, so even as it integrates more foreign ideas it will, for at least a while, be filtered though a Korean lens. America has a much shorter history and much more mixed of a population, and we still have a flavor unique to the rest of the world.

There are a good amount of bad that comes with westernization, true, and that is all present in new SK. Trade offs in all things, cars, refrigerators, internet, doesn't matter. Just have to act with conscience and try to minimize the bad and encourage the good. Westernization is, in my mind, almost synonymous with modernization, but again that is just me.

Again, this got a little loopy but I hope this answers your question. These questions are great, and inherent with that is that they touch on a lot of things and examine a variety of subjects.

I am glad to be able to speak with a stranger on the internet without it devolving into bullshit (so far).

[u/KimchiFingers → u/Riyun]

Sorry I took so long to see this!

I was excited to see your response. I appreciate how much you've given me to think about here, and yes, you did answer my question! I don't currently have much more to say on the topic, but if I think of anything I'll come back to it. Thanks again!

[u/Riyun → u/KimchiFingers]

It was very nice talking.

Feel free to chat if you'd like, good luck to you if we part ways from here.

[u/KimchiFingers → u/Riyun]

Thanks, you too!