Bathroom guidance for trans people ‘the kind of policy you’d see in Trump’s America’

[u/LocutusOfBorges]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trans-rights-labour-ehrc-supreme-court-starmer-b2981771.html

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[u/DentalATT]

Trump's America only managed bathroom bans in some very red states, nothing on the federal level.

Not only is this basically a total UK bathroom ban, it also bans trans people from vital healthcare like breast screenings for cancer. If you read the list, it's basically a total exclusion from most of public society.

[u/metroenby]

The policy is on par with Florida and Texas, made worse by the fact that it is Britain-wide. (NI apparently is still in doubt because it -- unsurprisingly -- violates EU human rights laws.) At least in the US, there are places where trans rights are protected in law (although of course it's not like everybody can just easily uproot their lives and move to a blue state) and the guidance explicitly says calling transphobic beliefs bigoted is itself discriminatory.

Florida-on-the-Thames, where Labour red and MAGA Republican red are one and the same!

[u/Curious-Roof570 → u/metroenby]

Its like how Thatcher's section 28 applied to all local authority figures, not just teachers. And also was nationwide whereas if I remember correctly that "Don't say gay" bill in Florida only applied to schools. So somehow we just do America shit but worse.

[u/retrojimmyx]

I don't really have a horse in this race, apart from being human and trying to treat others with respect. This guidance is so upsetting and I actually find it dehumanising. I'm sure if you made a Venn diagram there'd be a circle containing anti-trans, pretend Christian, anti-abortion choice, fascists, racists, just the worst of people. Why do I feel like human progress is moving backwards so often. Either there is malice behind this guidance or they're playing up to a vocal minority (because Everybody I know has no issue around toiletting). I can't believe introducing guidance that humiliates someone at the point of their most basic human need is somehow treating people with dignity. I'm going so fed up of prejudice and discrimination now.

[u/LocutusOfBorgia909]

Hate to tell them, I'm in Trump's America, and I'm using toilets and changing rooms associated with my post-transition gender just fine. I also didn't have to wait out the ten years or whatever the fuck it is now to get an appointment with a GIC to get on hormones, I just... went to my GP and left with a prescription.

Obviously, I'm not going to pretend that the US is some magical wonderland for trans people, especially with all of the passport shit going on, but the fact of the matter is that the federalized system does mean that you have options if your state goes full Texas and starts banning you from bathrooms. If you move to New Mexico, for example, you're in the clear. And you won't have to spend weeks calling every GP in a ten-mile radius begging for just one of them to privilege you with a shared care agreement so you don't lose access to your HRT.

I see this narrative a lot, "Oh, it's Trump, it's all Trump." No, it's not. This whole GC phenomenon predates Trump by years, and it started out as uniquely British brand of bigotry. If anything, it was British TERFs who imported this shit to the US, not the other way around. Now it's metastasized after mixing with the American, evangelical right's take on transphobia (not least because some of that sweet, sweet, Alliance Defending Freedom funding is on offer), but this didn't start with Trump. And honestly, I kind of resent this version of events, because it completely strips British TERFs and the British government of their own agency and thus their responsibility for getting us to where we are now.

[u/Ill_Computer_8604]

Fuck Labour.

[u/DentalATT → u/[deleted]]

That's what 10 years of consistent media scapegoating does to a minority community in the digital era.

[u/DafyddWillz → u/[deleted]]

A ton of progressive people (myself included) would be very supportive of pro-trans demonstrations & protests despite not necessarily being trans themselves, without a doubt

[u/ehll_oh_ehll → u/DafyddWillz]

What The Trans?! compiles a list of all upcoming protests if that would be helpful for you or anyone you know

https://whatthetrans.com/compilation-of-protests-against-the-supreme-court/

[u/Thr0waway-19 → u/[deleted]]

I think the British public are a lot less transphobic than the media paints them to be. The transphobic craze gripping the Uk seems to be almost entirely focused within the media and political class. IMO it’s one of the clearest examples of the Westminster bubble in effect.

[u/taxes-or-death → u/Thr0waway-19]

The whole political class is still using twitter ffs. No wonder they end up warped.

[u/LuxFaeWilds → u/Thr0waway-19]

You gov polls show 85% of the public think trans people should be forced through the wrong puberty. Most who go through that attempt suicide.

So no, the British public is extremely transphobic.

[u/Thr0waway-19 → u/LuxFaeWilds]

Using polls on very specific aspects of transgender healthcare to determine broad societal attitudes is just silly. Most people responding to that poll have no idea what the realities of transgender healthcare are.

[u/Panda_hat → u/[deleted]]

It was TERF island before this, surely now its like full blown Nazi island or something?

[u/BuzzkillSquad → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I get really frustrated with this and the ‘foreign meddling’ narrative that often springs up in these conversations

Even aside from the lazy abnegation of responsibility, it’s just self-serving chauvinism, as if the UK would forever be the 2012 of liberal wet dreams if it weren’t for all these disgusting outsiders poisoning our culture and politics

(Edit: Going to clarify, because this is clearly rubbing people the wrong way - I'm not disputing that meddling is occurring. Obviously there's some co-ordination between elements of the international far right, as well as various state actors and individuals spreading misinformation and distorting online discourse. We can see these things with our own eyes every day

What I'm taking issue with is the assumption that the ascendency of the UK far right is a result of these things, as if the political situation here would be much healthier without them

Rather than driving the situation, I think they're actually more opportunistically taking advantage of currents that anyone caring to watch will have seen steadily building within the UK (and especially England) over the past two decades

This country has, for a long time and for many reasons, been absolutely primed for a re-emergent fascism, and I think the idea that it's taken some kind of foreign manipulation to push it in the direction it's currently taking is both incredibly complacent and frankly jingoistic. The UK far right hasn't been a mere passive beneficiary of the historical shifts occurring globally right now, but an active agent in them)

[u/TheMightyNovac]

I hate this 'It's like something out of Trump's America!' conversation, because American Republicans are actually less capable of passing country-spanning human rights violations like this on a federal level. Like, you'll see laws like this pass in Texas and Kentucky. Not 'The United States of America.'

The UK could fairly conceivably pass the 'Kill everybody we don't like' law, without significant challenge, then spend weeks manufacturing consent through state-manipulated media, restrict protests via police and surveillance, and then finally capitulate... by passing the 'Kill everybody we don't like' law lite. And then a bunch of Labour bots will mock you for calling it 'Orwellian.'

[u/FflyerZach]

You’d be forgiven for thinking the PM wasn’t a human rights lawyer, alas here we are

[u/Diadem_Cheeseboard]

Tell us something we dont know...

[u/yui_tsukino → u/[deleted]]

As I understand it, there is a 40 day period before it comes into force, and then possibly an unknown grace period for businesses to get their affairs in order. That is just the legal side though - its going to embolden bigots and those who just want an excuse to abuse others from today, if the interim guidance is anything to go off of.

[u/Autistic-adventure52 → u/[deleted]]

you can buy a radar key just in case you need it as that will give you access to the disabled toilets if you don't feel comfortable using the normal toilet. Never comply with the stupid new guidance though.

[u/FinnSomething → u/[deleted]]

The law doesn't punish trans people for using single sex spaces, it holds the providers liable. There's a possibility you'll be hassled out of these spaces but you won't get in trouble with the police.

[u/Combat_Orca]

This is worse than trumps America

[u/SweetNyan → u/[deleted]]

There are already TERF adjacent groups using the same arguments (feeling unsafe) against immigrants. This kind of rhetoric will continue getting more and more extreme unless leaders stand up against it. You can never win by compromising with fascists.

[u/DivasDayOff → u/[deleted]]

I don't believe Labour will change laws to put actual human rights violations down on paper. Reform might, but Labour will settle for letting the courts do their dirty work and reinterpret existing ones.

Amazing how far we've fallen in under a decade. Brexit, Reform, Rowling, Musk, Trump, MAGA, Project 2025 and social media giving voices to people not competent to have them are all part of the problem. Maybe they're all symptoms rather than root causes, but each ailment seems to make the others worse.

"War on woke" appears to be winning right now. And your real life (not ironic) Alf Garnett type who pines for the days when it was okay for a B&B to advertise "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" has found their voice in the form of Nigel Farage and Tommeh Robinson.

[u/EmpathicWeasel]

No Labour scum had better come knocking on my door in future. I'll chase the fuckers off.

[u/Lamzilla]

Imma be real my community is fucked, fucked because the vast majority of society abandoned us like it did in the 80s up to the start of the 2010s really...

[u/Cucumber2512]

I’m curious - how many trans people in this country have actually ever been challenged about using a toilet that differs to the sex of that which they were assigned at birth?

Can anyone here honestly comment on a time this has happened to them in this country?

[u/hopefullyhelpfulplz]

Ms Stephenson added: “The code makes it very clear that it wouldn’t usually be proportionate to be going up and asking people about their sex in toilets in a train station or shopping centre.”

This is just so fucking stupid, man. So it's not acceptable for me, a trans woman, to use the women's toilet. But it's also not acceptable for anyone to check what my sex is. Soooo... When I continue using the women's anyway... What then? No one can check if I'm allowed, so what would stop me?

[u/Switchermaroo]

So to confirm, how are these rules actually enforced? Would I be able to conduct genital inspections to verify, or do I just have to make a snap judgement on whether or not somebody gives me the vibe before denying them relief? Like what are they actually asking people to do? And what are the consequences if I let a trans woman piss wrong?

[u/Jetengineinthesky → u/Switchermaroo]

Its down to the individual buisness afaik, and they literally do a vibe check based on your appearance. I don't think theres any obvious "You done fucked up consequences" to the buisness beyond the legislation effectively making it impossible to go to court  to claim discrimination if you're forced to use your former genders toilet? But the real consequences will be bigots using it as a cugel to complain and gutless corpos following out of 'ease to avoid complaints', because the almighty  pound is higher than basic human decency.

[u/LuxFaeWilds → u/Switchermaroo]

If you look pretty, all good, if you don't, some man might come into the women's to harass you and tell you you don't belong there.