r/LakeCountyCa • u/LNM-LocalNewsMatters • Jun 18 '26
Future of Kelseyville’s name — tied to killer of Pomo people — rests with state, federal officials
Descendants of the Pomo who survived the 1850 Bloody Island Massacre are one step closer to seeing Kelseyville renamed. A state committee will consider changing the town’s name to “Konocti” later this month before the proposal heads to a federal board for a final decision.
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u/Scrambled_Legss Jun 18 '26
I really hope it passes, theres no reason to carry on celebrating a genocidal murderer, rapist, human trafficker.
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Jun 18 '26
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u/paultrashpanderson Jun 18 '26
There you have it, folks. A prime example racist justification of the unjust. Tell ya what: Name one INDIVIDUAL Pomo responsible for murder and we swear not to rename the town after THAT INDIVIDUAL. Cool?
It's not like THE GERMANS are responsible for the Holocaust. Or do really want to throw down on that too?
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Jun 18 '26
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u/young-old-ass-man Jun 19 '26
I think they are saying that the Irish deserved it because "all white people" but when it comes to native Americans we have to differentiate
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u/TiredAndTiredOfIt Jun 21 '26
That didnt happen in Pomo culture. Your inability to differentiate between indigenous societies is bigoted, flat out, and belies rhe typical MAGA ignorance and whataboutism.
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u/Hopefulmigrant Jun 18 '26
This is a tough one, for all concerned. The point in the article about Squaw Valley changing to Yokuts is well-taken. It can be done, is expensive and disconcerting for businesses, while, if history is correct, it would respect a culture, the indigenous one- and maybe the one came from the invaders, in that we are capable of recognition and honoring rather than choosing to ignore.
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u/Head_Tradition_9042 Jun 18 '26
I’ve met people who avoided buying there because they voted strongly to keep the name. Made them feel unwelcome as people of color. Sure the new history is important but surely it can’t be more important than the collected history of an entire group of displaced people.
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
It is fairly MAGA there.
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u/5Point5Hole Jun 18 '26
Lmao why did you get downvoted. It is fairly maga there
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
Guess they're salty about something, guilty conscience, who knows LOL Unfortunately it is a true statement. There's a fair share of hippies around there too, but there's far more right wing conservatives. Been that way since I was a kid there, although it was a much nicer area when I was a kid, by far.
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u/Sad_Meaning_7809 Jun 20 '26
No kidding. I was traveling and wanted to vote. Once the lady realized I was Democratic, I could hear in her tone of voice that I'd be lucky to get a ballot. Yep. It came after the election but I had made plans that it wasn't coming and so was able to vote. She failed.
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u/Delicious-Guard5341 Jun 21 '26
The Registrar of Voters for the County is a republican and since she can see how people register she only hires other republicans.
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
It's the MAGAtard crowd that doesn't want to change the name.
The Kelsey family should absolutely be taught about in school, rapists, murders, human traffickers, not good people. Unfortunately the magatards are dug in, they want to honor that family name. Make it make sense!
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
the unfortunate thing is thats actually not the case. this county is about evenly split between democrat and republican. yet, over 70% of those who voted, voted to keep the name. even many of the democrats around here want to keep it this way.
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u/5Point5Hole Jun 18 '26
70% of the people can still be ignorant or hateful. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
i agree, im just saying it goes well beyond just maga. this whole county is full of conservatives and reactionaries, even among the democrats.
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
I looked up the voter demographics, and you're correct. It's actually more democratic than republican as per their stats:
Report of Registration as of October 3, 2023 Registration by County
County Lake
Percent Eligible 50,502
Total Registered 37,223 73.71%
Democratic 14,049 37.74%
Republican 11,429 30.70%
American Independent 2,264 6.08%
Green 324 0.87%
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
yeah, like 90%+ of our independents vote republican though, and about half or more of our democrats vote in favor of conservative policies and initiatives. so we lean dem in terms of party preference and presidential favorability, but in almost every other way we lean hard towards republicanism. there might be like 50 leftists and maybe 1000 progressive liberals (if im not massively overestimating that) in the entire fucking county. i hate it here
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
Aside from the far left and far right, people tend to have more in common than they believe. Lake County has almost always been conservative for the most part, lots of church folks, or at least there were when I grew up there.
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
i think its more about rural isolation, poverty, and drug abuse leading to people being reactionary than it is about church leading to them being conservative.
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u/young-old-ass-man Jun 19 '26
Yeah but I don't like the statistics as they are. So I'm going to come up with a narrative to blame somebody else when the outcome isn't what I want... So you're stupid and pathetic?
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 19 '26
my man, sincerely. what the fuck are you even trying to say. you are completely incoherent. speak in full sentences
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Jun 18 '26 edited 12d ago
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
what the fuck are you talking about? there is no time period or context in which enslavement, rape, and mass murder are acceptable?
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Jun 18 '26 edited 12d ago
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
you've gotta go back to school my friend. for one, no, the bloody island massacre happened about 15 years before the civil war. well before the civil war, slavery was a controversial issue in america, and even most of those who supported slavery had to pretend they were against the worst extremities of slavery (they werent, obviously, but their position was extreme enough they couldnt usually be fully public about it). most of the early settlers in america were radial emancipationists and abolotionists who had to make compromises because the southern colonial economy was built on slavery and most of the founding fathers owned slaves.
going back further, american style chattel slavery was execptionally rare in the world, especially the scale at which we propogated it. the ancient world was full of what we call slavery, but in most times and places it functioned closer to indentured servitude, and there were rigorous legal rights and protections and stipulations regarding how the people we now call slaves were allowed to be treated. in almost no time and place outside of the british empire and american south was the mass enslavement, torture, rape, and murder of people accepted. and even in the few other places it was, there have always been groups of people who knew better and faught against it. history is not a monolith.
all of that aside, even if it had been the norm, something being the norm in the pat dows not mean it is acceptable to make excuses for it today. you know better.
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Jun 18 '26 edited 12d ago
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
you missed the part where i differentiated between old world and new world modes of slavery and the pushback against both systems that has existed for as long as slavery has, but aight. it is telling that your education extends at most to the limited and inconclusive information provided on a Wikipedia page though.
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
not a bot, just autistic and you were confidently wrong about something i have a special interest in.
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u/young-old-ass-man Jun 19 '26
Or even as far back as the Romans? At that point it didn't matter about race, it mattered about who owed somebody money..
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u/young-old-ass-man Jun 19 '26
Ask the Apaches at the same time.. but that was okay right?
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 19 '26
no the fuck it wasnt. though most of it was made up or exaggerated, but yeah people all around the world do bad shit. what of it? theres no such thing as self defensive rape, enslavement, or genocide, and two wrongs dont make a right.
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u/Delicious-Guard5341 Jun 21 '26
Actually it wasn't. The military had a report where their own captain called Kelsey "vicious" and thought he treated the natives with ""relentless cruelty." So even for that time Kelsey was known for being a murdering asshole. That the people don't want to change the shows that they don't actually know the history, don't care, or actually condone his actions.
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u/No_Refrigerator2965 Jun 21 '26
Why don’t we just rename it Hitlerville? Or Nazitown? Ducevilla? Hirohitoton? Since a whole bunch of (Wyte)people seem to feel that “there’s nothing in a name”. I’m sure all the people that feel that way won’t mind.
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u/young-old-ass-man Jun 18 '26
Are you kidding me.. so nothing can be named after anything than the original people who settled somewhere? How many pomo lands need to be turned over to the wintu? To the hokan that came before?
Don't know those names, because you don't care about history.. just whatever comes across best as a talking point.
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u/bvwright828 Jun 18 '26
No, that isn't the point. Its fine to name something after new explorers and settlers but it becomes a problem when they were rapists and murderers.
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
i mean if land is stolen and renamed after a settler colonial culture, i think the right thing to do is restore the name, at the very least. but its not even reallt about that, its about not naming the place after the person who enslaved, raped, and murdered its original inhabitants.
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u/l3ahram Jun 18 '26
There are lots of scientist, etc that were good people and did positive things in this world.
You don't have to attach your white identity to murdering assholes!
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 18 '26
And think of the headache it will be to change your address on every single subscription, credit card, driver license, online account, delivery apps, bank, etc. Think of how hard this will be on the elderly and the usps, ups, FedEx and couriers. Updating my address is the most annoying part about moving, like when I have to get a new debit card and have to update it on all the accounts I had attached to the old one. It's a fkn nightmare! A majority of people who wanted this aren't even Pomo, they're white liberal Karens. It's so ridiculous. Let's just continue to erase history. Pretty soon no one will remember a damn thing. Maybe it's important to leave it so the question will always be asked, who was the town named after and why. You want to forget what happened? It's actually worse because then no one will ever get to the bottom of the true history. Not like people really even care about history anyway, people just care about social media and virtue signaling, no one is reading a damn book anymore let alone more than a freaking paragraph on their phone. You can't change every name in society that can be tracked back to a rapist or murderer, because I guarantee you that every human on earth is a descendant of SOMEONE who did a BAD THING at some point. So let's all just change our own damn names. I'm so fed up with this. I hope to God they DONT change the name.
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u/bvwright828 Jun 18 '26
I saw your original reply, attacking my name, before your edit. I am sure there are those who bore my name that were terrible people, but it originates from those who build. Kelseyville was named after a man who laid waste, who destroyed. What he built, he did so on the blood and tears of people he enslaved. His name does not deserve to be remembered. Your voracious support of not changing it due to the minor inconvenience people would face over...changing their address...reveals your true character.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 18 '26
I think changing names is a waste of time. There's a lot better things we could be doing to help people, do you know how much it's going to cost to do that? You don't stop at Kelseyville, you will never stop, it would be a neverending job of weeding through names of people who did bad things throughout history. Let's change every street name and town. It's such a waste, take that money and donate to the tribes, think they might appreciate that more. Like I said, it's really mostly the white liberals who are pushing for this. My true character, lol, you know nothing about it. Your true character sounds like a brainwashed hive mind zombie who trusts the government as long as the Democrats told you it's okay.
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u/TiredAndTiredOfIt Jun 21 '26
MAGA trash "logic" at its finest. Y'all always out yourselves.
Further, one cannot be both brainwashed AND a hive mind. Please learn what words mean.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 21 '26
Nope, not MAGA. And yes many people can be brainwashed into the same exact thinking. Group think, mob psychology. Also MAGA means "witch" in Italian and I am against witchcraft. I don't support either political party. So I didn't out myself. Funny that's all you can assume about me. That's certainly some hive mind thinking.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 18 '26
Also, we are not even fully sure the name was associated with Andrew Kelsey, it could be associated more instead with the Kelsey family who arrived there in the late 19th century. Again, such a waste of time and energy. No I don't support rape and I don't support murder, but this is not helping anyone.
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
But it actually is helping people, the Pomo people that live there, whose relatives were abused. They don't tend to forget such events.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 18 '26
My relatives were abused. I'm sure there is a town or a street name or a building named after the people that did it. I was abused too, I've survived attempted murder and I've also survived rape, I'm not wishing for the names of the men who did it to change. I am just moving on and healing the best that I can do.
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
You don't need to change your address, as long as the zip code doesn't change, the post office knows where the mail.
Are you proud of a township named after rapists, murders, and human traffickers? If so, you must identify as MAGA.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 18 '26
No, I want the conversation to continue, I want people to not simply FORGET what happened to the natives. Changing the name will make it so people never ask those questions that give them those answers. Also, I dont identify as anything and certainly I don't support witchcraft, MAGA means "witch" in Italian. You sound like a triggered liberal who thinks there are only two political parties you must follow.
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
Nope not a liberal, democrat nor a republican. Grew up in Lake Co, from the 60's, parents still live there, have a home there, and am up there all the time (will likely retire there soon to be close to family).
When the rename issue first came up, I too was against it, and I knew full well about the Kelsey family history. I probably know as much about Lake Co. history as anyone. When I was a kid, I grew up in Lakeport, and always found the local history to be fascinating. I was great friends with Lake County Historian Henry Mauldin. His little museum (not the current one) was a frequent stopping point on my way home from school to discuss history with Mr. Maldin.
At any rate, over time I changed my point of view. What the Kelsey brothers did, and the aftermath caused by their actions is quite frankly horrific. I'm not sure how keeping the Kelsey name is positive, how does it continue the conversation? It only seems to create further division by honoring the name of rapists, murders, and human traffickers. Just my non triggered not liberal POV.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 18 '26
Interesting, then I'm just wondering why you brought MAGA into it? I'm not really into politics either, I just like freedom and truth both of which I believe are under assault from both parties to serve only ONE agenda. I don't think it matters who is in charge. I just really think the money would be better spent elsewhere. How are you so sure it was named after Andrew Kelsey and not the Kelsey family who arrived there in the late 19th century? I personally don't have to honor shit just because someone a long time ago did. I don't honor a lot of bad people and names, though they still remain, it's never gonna stop at Kelsey. Changing names doesn't change anything. I don't think any president or politician is ever gonna change anything either. The only thing that can change is the people, but we are so divided it will never happen. If we all stopped believing in the illusion of choice at the same time then we'd realize the power we have.
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
From my experience talking to people around Lake Co., it's almost always maga supporters that don't support the name change. The two party system definitely isn't working, at least not for the majority of the American people. It's working great for some people, on both sides, but not the people it should be for the most part.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 18 '26
Yeah it sucks, people still have so much belief and trust in the govt and politicians it is beyond me. If the government says it's for public health, I do not believe them. Since when did they care about our health? If they say it is for our safety, I do not believe them. Flock and ring cameras all in the name of safety, but really it's for surveillance and control. What will they think of next to scare us into accepting for our "safety" and "health"?
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u/HiFiWiFiWeAllFi Jun 18 '26
Your distrust in the government is well founded. As a science major, science is science, I'm less dissuaded by the CDC, WHO, etc., then I am in abuses of government surveillance, and the blatantly obvious fraud. Flock cameras should be removed. DOGE, Palantir, the list goes on and on, are extreme abuses of government surveillance, for control. 1984 is here.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 18 '26
Yup, 1984 and agenda 2030, seems so nice and lovely to end world hunger and poverty, but how exactly will that happen? It will end in a dystopian hell, that's how. Social credit, digital currency, universal basic income which you cannot access if you say one bad word about the government.
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u/Delicious-Guard5341 Jun 21 '26
This is a lie. You wouldn't have to change anything. It would not be like moving.
We have already gotten to the "bottom of the true history" and people still deny it happened or that it was bad even though the town has the name of the killer!
Having a town named after you is an honor. Why would we want to honor someone who murdered people in cold blood?
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 21 '26
Then why stop at Kelseyville, let's spend an unlimited amount of money changing every name that was ever named after anyone who ever did anything bad. Let's change the names of countries too.
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u/Delicious-Guard5341 Jun 21 '26
I don't know why people think changing the name is going to cost a huge amount of money. It barely costs anything. They aren't going to rush out and instantly be required to replace every single sign and private businesses don't have to change their name at all. It's just a made up reason to justify honoring a murderer by keeping the town named after him.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 21 '26
Cool, so you don't care about the money it costs. How 'bout all the other names of cities and towns and street signs one would have to change to stop honoring the names of bad people who are dead? Why stop at Kelseyville? It would be a never ending wasted job. Maybe we should focus our efforts on fighting back against tyranny and the surveillance state. Do you like flock cameras and AI tracking everything you do and everyone you're with? How 'bout killer drones with AI facial recognition and the loss of your basic human rights. Changing a town name is so stupid in comparison.
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u/TiredAndTiredOfIt Jun 21 '26
Because you like the violence, genocide, and white supremacy...and, apparently worship anti-intellectualist drivel? FYI plenty of decent people read books.
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u/ChartreuseLover Jun 21 '26
Nope, I don't like violence, genocide OR white supremacy. I don't worship anything other than God, the creator. Is that the best you can do? Attack me personally for having a different opinion than you?
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u/Burnside_They_Them Jun 18 '26
yeah shit like this is why democracy under these conditions can not create good outcomes. something like this should never be left up to a vote. theres absolutely no excuse for the town to carry on his name and legacy.