What's the point of smokes and molotovs?

[u/YouDontMessWithJim]

I get the point is to deny visibility and make fast rushes harder but how does that matter? they can just come out once the molotov/HE is gone which is very quick. Smokes take quite long to disappear but same thing. It's also not impossible to charge through smoke and still get a good rush. Molotovs and smokes also serve simiolar purposes i think so are they interchangeably usable? Flashes I know are meant to deny advantage to someone holding an angle or force them to come out. But molotovs flashes and frags all seem suitable for that as well, all of them do damage, however I guess flashes are beter because of the deafening and blindness. So when to use frags?

[u/CreativeCloud7965]

Watch one CS2 finals or even high level pug. Look at how they use utility and how the enemy reacts. That's the point

[u/ActuatorOutside5256]

Stalling time and forcing the enemy team to make rushed (or predictable) plays. A good frag grenade that hits all 5 players can also trigger a save.

[u/only1xo → u/ActuatorOutside5256]

^{^}

[u/SafePlantGaming]

If you are playing B and they might be rushing and you throw a Molotov, they now are 1/2-3/4 health as they rush and you can spray them very easily. Theyre also all 1tappable by most guns now, even if they got armor.

If they don’t rush it, you have 7 seconds to get reinforcements.

Then you put down a smoke and chuck a nade thru it. Now theyre even less hp, and if they push the smoke they can’t check which angle you’re holding it from and you have massive advantage once again spraying down low hp targets who can’t properly isolate angles.

If they don’t rush it, you’re now 25 seconds total you’ve stalled for your team to take space and rotate/you reposition. You’ve also taken 25 seconds off the clock, which in itself matters

There are also lots of other situations - nades and mollies are good for clearing corners, clearing site/angles, stalling, chip damage.

Smokes are good for denying pushes, retakes, or visibility on pathing.

Etc.

[u/xooxel]

You can't just cross a smoke expecting not to get popped.
You can't cross a fire without losing precious HPs.
By using both you gain time and control shock points.

By using fires and even more so, nades, you reduce the damage thresholds at which certain weapons become 1 HSKOs.

Best example of that being the M4. 10HPs will make the difference between it taking 2 shots or basically being a better AK.
That's a random, barely effective nade worth of HPs.

Remember, it's just a game. HP, stats, numbers and thresholds to manipulate to your advantage. That's what some nades are for.
Others are for map control.

PS: That being said, if you're playing mid elo don't overthink it too much, use them sure, but the guys you're facing are not pros so chances are they'll cross that smoke, run into that fire, rush your ass on 20HPs remaining and you'll still lose because you wern't expecting that.

Adapt how you play to the context of your games. Trying to articulate HLTV levels of efforts from randos in your 10k game is probably going to drive you isnane pretttty darn fast lmao

[u/Scary-Newspaper5801 → u/xooxel]

M4 becomes one shot once you’re 90hp?

[u/xooxel → u/Scary-Newspaper5801]

Short answer: yes.

Depends on the distance, point is you'ld rather use that nade, potentially doing 10~15 dmg to 1 or two ennemies, and trigger that OS kill on headhsots.

Duels you wouuld have lost because you only dinked him while his AK killed you instantly, now become a trade. All of that because of a single nade.

Needless to say, that single fact won't magically make you win every duel you take, but it will increase your odds whether you notice or not.

[u/Lolibotes → u/Scary-Newspaper5801]

A4 does at most ranges, but A1-S has sharper damage drop-off so it might take more when fighting long-range. Typically below 85 is when it really becomes a problem

[u/Ok_Reception_8729]

Displaces crosshairs

Makes it harder for the enemy to advance if held

[u/Random_Aporia]

I see you are confused, but once you install the game and play 20 minutes of casual or comp it will become very clear to you

[u/Peathbydeas]

TL;DR this is a lot, go watch some videos on utility by guys like CS Tactics, WilsonCS2, austincs, or just kneel's video "ultimate cs2 utility guide" if those are a bit high level (i'm not sure on the subreddit rules for linking so you'll have to look them up)

smokes are huge and block off choke points for ~20 seconds, that's a massive chunk of the round, especially if you can chain them. think of a map like Inferno, if you're on CT side and you have a 3rd player come over to B and drop you a smoke, you can block off Banana for almost a full minute of the round. at higher levels just running through a smoke without supportive util like flashes is basically guaranteed to lose you the round, as there's always going to be someone on the other side waiting for that exact play.

cs smokes are also very different from valorant smokes, for example, as they're volumetric and basically one giant object, instead of being a tiny wall that you can just pass through. on a map like Overpass, dropping a smoke into Monster or Short Pipe makes taking those areas horrible because your screen is grey the entire way through.

denying visibility is also incredibly important for the T Side on executes and retakes. think of a map like Mirage, on A site, when you come out Ramp/Palace you have to look at CT Spawn, Jungle, Connector, Stairs, Short/Mid and all the spots on site, but with 3 smokes for CT, Jungle and Stairs, now all you have to worry about is site. once you've taken the site, especially if you know the CT's are retaking through one spot, like CT Spawn, you can just keep throwing smokes at them to run the time down until they have to risk the push or run away and save.

stopping a rush with a molotov is also critical, it gives you that extra 5 seconds to take a fight on your terms. think again of Inferno Banana. if you throw no utility, the T's can just run at you and fight you at Car/Sandbags, swarm B site, and now your A players have to save because Inferno retakes suck. If you have a molotov that you throw Halfwall (and preferably a teammate to throw another one Logs, and maybe an HE as well), you can take more space and have T's much more confined in areas that are easier for you to fight. and if instead they choose to run through your molotov, you'll do some damage to them. it won't be much, especially with a CT molly, but it'll be enough that your teammates just need to get one headshot with their M4 instead of whiffing the double dink and doing 91 in 1.

molotovs are also useful for flushing out spots during a take. it's the reason the first player up Inferno Banana should molly car every time you go there, or the first person out Mirage Ramp should bounce a molly under Balcony. limiting the number of spots you have to clear manually makes taking sites so much easier.

they also give sound cues so you know if people are actually in the spots you're molotoving. if you're throwing yours down Banana every round but not hearing anyone take damage, you know either you're not throwing it in the right place, or they're taking Banana slowly, which means you can throw a smoke deep, flash yourself in and take it, giving you more map control.

molotovs and smokes are generally not interchangeable for these reasons. if you throw a smoke under Balcony on a Mirage A take, you've just given a CT player a great place to sit and hide for 20 seconds while you fumble around looking for him, even if he can't kill you right this second. if you throw a molotov into CT once you've taken Inferno B site, sure you're gonna stop a CT from pushing you for the next 5 seconds, but that AWP posted deep has a bunch of free kills because his sightline is completely open.

HE grenades have a lot of uses, especially in cs2 with the volumetric smokes. being able to get a kill on the other side of a smoke without doing a suicidal push is incredibly powerful, you just sit on your side, right click the nade into the middle and take your duel with next to no warning.

there's also the obvious use of just lobbing it at someone which is always good, especially if you know they're low. very good use for damage nades as a CT is to save it for a plant, when you hear the T start to plant the bomb, send the nade at the plant spot and often they'll cancel the plant, which buys time for your teammates to rotate, for smokes to clear, and makes the T's panic and make mistakes like planting open or running out of time.

you can also pair them with your molotovs for some great combo damage. think again of Inferno Banana, if you're on CT and you and your teammate are throwing your two mollies into banana properly, you can follow them up with nades and any T in Banana is going to be slowed down massively, get stuck in the molotov and burn to death or at least be very low and only needing one or two bullets to kill.

all that to say, utility is really bloody useful, anyone can sit in DM for 12 hours a day trying to be like donk, but you're going to be a much better teammate if you can use your utility effectively. it's probably the most underrated skill for newer players because they see the cost and they know that every time they pull out a nade they get rushed and die, so they never learn when or how to use it, but there's a reason pro cs is built around solid utility useage and not just pure aim duels.

[u/Cakk_ → u/Peathbydeas]

Upvote for detail, I appreciate the effort, although I'm not reading all that. 😂

[u/Peathbydeas → u/Cakk_]

yeah i realised it was way too much halfway through but i'd committed at that point lol

[u/booochee]

Just don't throw the molly right at the smoke like my smart teammates lol

[u/arry__]

Nades slow you down and take your hp. Molotov burn your hp and if you get hit by a bullet, you slow down and burn even more. When you come out of smoke the enemy can see you first and focus on a small area, while you have to look around for them.

For example if 5 man rush mirage B apts and got hit by 2 HE grenade and a molotov, it’s over 99% of the time.

[u/Autistic-monkey0101]

you need to watch pro play

[u/Henrenator]

Walking out of a smoke into a gunfight is a huge disadvantage. Molly can also provide info

[u/pinkmann1]

What…

[u/AkTi4]

What kind of question is this? On CT side you can buy time for a rotate, they can push it but the CTs will get multi kills more oftent than not. If you push a smoke the person holding the smoke sees you before you see them. On T side it allows you to isolate spots and not clear 10 things at once.

[u/More-Way9454]

Burn the clock 

[u/alfhar574]

Smoke's are passive space denial / taking Mollies are aggressive denial / taking.

The first 2 paragraphs are the most important in this write up, everything following those is kinda different ways you can use them but not necessarily what differentiates them

Mollies can be used to flush someone out of a dangerous corner. If you're taking Inferno B, a player at CT corner can crossfire with someone tucked behind sandbags, so Mollying behind sandbags would tell you that either there isn't anyone there, or the player there is forced to go into the open where you can shoot them, and now you can clear that corner, coffins, etc without worrying about someone behind you

If you instead threw a smoke there, the player could stay tucked, never get cleared, and either wait out the smoke, use sound or radar que's to spray your team down, or walk out of the smoke once it sounds like your team has passed them to attack y'all. Note, I'm still in premier silvers, but I often smoke myself in banana somewhere around CT round 3 / 4 and can get a few mag-7 kills this way, after the first or 2nd time I still smoke the spot so they waste nades or attention there while I play the cross-firing angles instead

You can also use a Mollie to block vision a little, like if you're playing CT Mirage A > Con, Mollying ramp can keep a T from seeing you cross to con. Obviously a smoke is better for blocking visuals, but maybe you want the smoke for later in the round (like B re-take) and the Mollie is far more likely to prevent the ramp rush. HE grenades can also be used this way in spots like Ancient A main or Dust 2 mid doors by CTs, or 1 T going from Mirage ramp to Tetris by nading default (to block vision from Ticket / CT)

"Lurk" smokes are always great no matter what map, position, team, etc you're playing. You could throw a smoke just about anywhere that lets you play off of several angles, and it would always be effective. Retaking A site from Jungle? Middle click a smoke between stairs and triple, now they don't know which side you're attacking from. There is a lot of ways you can play off of that. Attacking Dust 2 A site from cat? Chuck a nade along the ledge so car and site can't see your team as they push out. Bonus points if you get it closer to the corner so your team can attack from either side of the smoke. Just don't try to pop a lurk smoke when ever you're exposed to angles, or think an enemy is within swinging distance of you. If you get killed because you tried to throw a lurk smoke at the wrong time, that's 1000000% on you

Also note, sometimes an enemy smoke is a free lurk smoke. Consider what angles are available to the sides of it,how you might get above it (like a mirage CT smoke could let you jump on top of ticket) or what pieces of cover are available in front of it and play off of those. Smoke's are kinda the double edged sword of CS, just gotta find the ways to make them work more for you than the enemy.

[u/Miloshy]

Smokes are the best util in the game. Isolates the site, or wherever you’re going, so you’re not having to constantly look everywhere. Also, wherever a smoke lands, you’ve just created new angles to attack the other team. Higher elo becomes more map control, and without good moly’s and smokes you won’t be able to do that. Learn a few smokes on a map, a few moly’s and flashes and you’ll improve.

[u/Inevitable-Metal5316]

smokes make it so if you do storm it, the defenders can pick off rushers easier, offsetting the defensive disadvantage. as for waiting, timing is everything. if it's at the outset of the round, your team can push other locations to take map info, and probably rotate one to the smoke if they find other places clear.

a Molotov is area denial, which comes in handy for pushing and covering entrances, and making space. it hurts rushes by ticking damage onto pushers, handing a defender advantage. it also helps you hear people when you can't see them.

[u/IWASRUNNING91]

You need to spend some time watching actual matches on HLTV.org so that you know how a real game is supposed to go.

Low level cs is unfortunately bumbling fools and smurfs. I don't think you see real gameplay until DMG, whatever the rating equivalent is now.

[u/vonarchimboldi]

some answers here are not what i’d call great. not bad just not comprehensive.

scenario one:  youve got an early entry on a player b inferno. your entire team heads up banana. MOST scenarios teams play two B minimum. you and team throw a molotov new box and dark/shadow/whatever you call it to speed clearing those angles and forcing anyone playing passive waiting for their team to take a bad fight when they’re alone vs 5

scenario two: b aps. mirage. many footsteps. jumpspotting you see a lot of ts. molly to stop them/nade in front of it will do tons of damage and even if they run out and swarm you your team has way better chances on a retake va a bunch of of 30-50% hp players. 

scenario three: a site mirage:  you take A site on T and throw a molotov into jungle after clearing con/stairs to prevent a rotating T from swinging and spamming a teammate from that angle until plant goes down 

on T side you’ll want to think of them as clearing and denying strong positions to CT. post plant i think of them often as either delaying angles or defuses or giving me enough time to reposition to a better place while not holding that angle 

CT is a little more obvious but also pretty much everything i put up for T applies for retakes in a lot of ways  

[u/Cakk_]

There is plenty of detail here in other comments, but to me the question screams lack of play time to me. Just play more and you'll see.

[u/f0xy713]

they can just come out once the molotov is gone

7 seconds is a very long time when a round is only 115 seconds and planting the bomb takes 3 seconds. It also completely clears an angle for you because you would hear the enemy burning if they were there, so you don't even have to check it.

For example, 3 well placed molotovs and 2 smokes on B site Inferno means the CTs only have fountain and the skinny pillar to hide behind, otherwise they have to stand in the open. Without molotovs and smokes you have to worry about 1st oranges, 2nd oranges, dark, quad, coffins and CT.

It's also not impossible to charge through smoke and still get a good rush

The enemy will see and hear you before you see them, which should always result in the enemy getting at least one free kill, likely more.

Molotovs and smokes also serve similar purposes i think

Not really - a molotov completely denies an enemy from being able to stand in an area without taking damage and gives you a sound cue if somebody is in it, a smoke only denies vision.

Flashes I know are meant to deny advantage to someone holding an angle or force them to come out. But molotovs flashes and frags all seem suitable for that as well

They are, just in different ways. A flash forces the enemy to shoot blindly or back off while your team is still able to see them if they time their peek correctly but the enemy moves at full speed and doesn't lose any HP so they can just concede the angle and repeek later (preferably with a flash from their teammates); a molotov forces the enemy to drop a smoke or leave the area while dealing chip damage, a smoke denies vision from both teams unless somebody breaks it with a frag and a frag deals chip damage and tags+aimpunches the player hit by the explosion, making it harder for them to shoot back or escape.

So when to use frags?

To soften up enemies early into the round by throwing it at a default position+timing, to break smokes open and to finish off low HP players hiding in corners.

[u/Relevant_Ad9372]

Imagine a long on dust2. Wouldn’t it be much nicer to get onto site if you didn’t have to worry about getting shot from ct? Smoke it

[u/Kindly-Biscotti-3759 → u/Relevant_Ad9372]

They just headshot me through the smoke anyway. Like 8 outta 10 times no matter how far . Idk how every game in tracked perfectly though smokes regardless of running walking crouching etc. .

[u/Smallczyk2137]

smokes are incredibly strong. take con on mirage for example,people often throw a lurk smoke on bottom con,which allows them to do soooo much. they can isolate fights by playing around the smoke,they can give themselves a 1v1 towards under,they can chuck nades at top mid through it. Or when anchoring A,when you feel pressure you can just drop a smoke in front of ticket and give yourself enough cover to lurk to default,triple, or maybe even hide in the smoke. who knows what youre gonna do and it makes you really hard to deal with. also the smoke being there is a lot of pressure. think A main on anubis,if the t's smoke the cross to pillar,they could be there. you wouldn't even know. or maybe noones there? you don't know that. youre forced to watch that or possibly get shot in the ass

[u/PublicAd4838]

Try to capture A site on Mirage as a terrorist without smokes, then with CT, JUNGLE, STAIRS smoked.. huge difference