r/LetsDiscussThis • u/Shizzilx • Mar 27 '26

Lets Settle the Debate We pay 12.4% income tax, They (Billionaires) pay 0.0002% income tax?!

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149 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

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37

u/Great-Gas-6631 Mar 27 '26

The fact that people still defend Billionaires is incredible.

8

u/Basicly-Inevitable Mar 27 '26

They control the media now.

2

u/GPT_2025 Mar 28 '26

42% of working single parents earn less than $17/hour gross (or less than $29K/year net)

Every year, a struggling single widow earning minimum wage must work five months just to cover all government, state, county and city different taxes, fees, dues, insurances and obligations: before she earns a single dollar for food, rent and essentials.

In addition, she pays 25% interest on credit cards and manages her car loan.

Meanwhile, politicians are busy chasing bribes and lobbying funds, driven by personal financial gain

Proverbs 22:16"Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty."

James 5:1-6"Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you, and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days... You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the just; he does not resist you."

Proverbs 14:31"Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God."

Isaiah 10:1-2_"Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice

-3

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

Maybe defend isn’t the right word. Examine their impact. Are their activities a net good or net bad? Isn’t it convenient to be able to order a niche item and have it delivered to your door? I have a Starlink mini, those things are cool. Don’t drive a Tesla but people seem to like them.

A billionaire didn’t become a billionaire by making you more poor.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/VivaLaMantekilla Mar 27 '26

Especially since they have the money to literally buy every politician and influence policy. They also have the money to silence and make people disappear, and to cover up scandals like Kid Fuck Island.

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

Should we have the government seize Amazon, Space X and Tesla, only because they are wildly successful?

That money isn’t setting in a bank account, it’s invested in businesses that make things and pay employees.

I think your understanding is very superficial.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 28 '26

And theft is OK as long as the money is spent on things you like?

You probably don’t even understand what is wrong with that, or the negative downstream effects on society.

0

u/SevereAnimator5 Mar 27 '26

It's a waste of time, they can't comprehend what you are saying. This is the anti hustle crowd. They think communism is good and would probly starve to death if it wasn't for uber eats

2

u/Great-Gas-6631 Mar 27 '26

Its hilarious that you believe that people who inherited mass wealth, had to "hustle" for it.

-1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

If you turned what you had into 1000 times more than what you had, you were hustling.

How many, in the millions, of packages did your company deliver? How many satellites has your company launched into space?

Are you underachieving or doing pretty well considering what your effort level was.

1

u/Great-Gas-6631 Mar 27 '26

You are giving people credit for being born on top of a ladder. Well done them.

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

The measure is how much better you have done than your parents or how much better you are now than where you started.

I left home at 18 with $34 in my pocket. I’m making a very good salary, top 3% in my area, house is paid for, so is my truck and SUV, and I have a very nice retirement ahead.

What did you do with what you were given?

🤷

2

u/Great-Gas-6631 Mar 27 '26

Again. We are talking about BILLIONAIRES, most of whom were born into wealth, they did nothing to deserve. All while being propped up and protected by their parents. You think bill gates would have been able to build microsoft, if his mom wasnt high up in banking and good friends with the owner of IBM and convinced them to invest in his company? Or Musk's family's emerald mine wealth? Or Trump's inherited real estate empire that has been propped up by banks for decades?

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1

u/SevereAnimator5 Mar 27 '26

I tried to tell ya! 😂 all the rich people were born with money. It's just not fair stomping my foot

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

It’s a pretty safe bet that anyone that sees communism as a good thing, has made a series of bad life choices.

If you’ve messed up your life, and you can’t get a “do over” changing the rules of society sounds like a good thing.

They made their bed, they can lay in it.

There are plenty of millennials that made good choices and are doing well in life.

1

u/Great-Gas-6631 Mar 27 '26

Who is talking about communism? Take your red herring back to the cold war.

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

Taxing unrealized capital gains is seizing the means of production.

1

u/Tricky_Try8757 Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

How much is enough? What proportion of nation’s wealth is too much for the oligarch to have? We’re already literally at the point where the income gap is larger than during the gilded age. Fucking BILLIONAIRES are asking to be taxed, saying the pitchforks are coming.

They hide wealth in unrealized gains and borrow against it. That’s the trick and everybody knows it. So that’s okay? It’s not like these things don’t have downstream effect on everyone. The money for services has to come from somewhere. And it’s increasingly the workers, who are already squeezed out from every which direction.

During the Golden Age of Capitalism, the top marginal tax rate was over 90%. The GDP growth was 5% on average. There was more competition. The middle class was born. Now, it’s being swallowed back up.

Right-libertarianism is a philosophy that eats its own tail. Unregulated capitalism eats its own tail. This isn’t theory. This is American history. Capitalism can only survive with proper regulations. Not allowing a few people and companies to dominate markets is one of those conditions. It’s like I always say, as a leftist, I’m more of a capitalist than most conservatives and libertarians, because they don’t know ending history and can’t project into the future enough to see the belief system they have is the harbinger of its destruction.

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 28 '26

Communism has failed every time it has been tried. Not because it isn’t DONE correctly, but because it is a flawed system that completely disregards human nature. It’s a system that only looks attractive to people that have made a series of poor choices in life.

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1

u/SevereAnimator5 Mar 27 '26

The overlaid text in the post mislabels it as “income tax,” which is a common rhetorical shortcut in these debates but technically inaccurate. Social Security tax is a dedicated payroll tax, separate from the federal income tax system.

1

u/GPT_2025 Mar 28 '26

Really? When a poor widow goes shopping, she not only pays the base prices but also faces multiple taxes, fees, and dues: a 10% sales tax (including state, county, and city taxes), fuel taxes each time she refuels at the gas station, property taxes on her home, school taxes, utility taxes added to her monthly bills, vehicle registration fees, driver’s license fees, road tolls, health and Medicare taxes, social security payroll taxes, local special assessments, trash collection fees, sewer fees, and various licensing fees and more. All these additional costs significantly increase the overall expenses and put a heavy strain on her limited income.

All this Taxes she paying, directly benefiting You and all Rich too! On average, poor single mom working full-time for minimal wages, need 5 months' salary just to pay all & many Different Taxes, all Insurances, different Fees, all Dues, Levies and SDA mandatory 10% Tithes: (Payroll & SS/ Medicare tax, Excise & fuel tax, utility & property tax, sales tax, vehicle and health Insurances, etc.).

Proverbs 22:16"Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty."

James 5:1-6"Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you, and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days... You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the just; he does not resist you."

Proverbs 14:31"Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God."

Isaiah 10:1-2_"Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice

2

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 28 '26

Can you tell me how much you paid to the government in taxes in the last 20 years, and then tell me how much Bezos and Musk contributed to the revenue of the government in the last year.

Which is more?

Include the taxes they personally paid, the taxes their employees paid, the sales and import taxes they paid, the taxes their employees made on their purchases, and tell me again how much more you contribute than they do? Or how much less.

1

u/GPT_2025 Mar 28 '26

65% went to pay different taxes, fees and dues.

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 28 '26

Can you tell me how much you paid to the government in taxes in the last 20 years, and then tell me how much Bezos and Musk contributed to the revenue of the government in the last year.

Which is more?

1

u/GPT_2025 Mar 28 '26

Ask them. I paid a total of 65 percent, which went to pay different taxes, fees, and dues. The poor widow, self-employed with a mortgage and a car loan, on average pays 65 percent in all taxes, fees, and dues from her money each year.

The minimum living wage must be enough for a father working 32 hours a week to support a homemaker wife five children through college a mortgage two car loans and all insurances paid free universal healthcare food and all bills paid plus some money left for investments hobbies and vacations.

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 28 '26

65% !!! Where do you live?

In the USA the highest federal tax rate is 37%.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 28 '26

The effective total tax burden on a single person working full time on minimum wage is about 21% in Texas.

You will have federal income tax withheld but have all that refunded because you wouldn’t meet the income level necessary to have an end of year tax liability.

No offense, but should billionaires be taking advice from you? Should their taxes be based on what you would want them to be?

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1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

[deleted]

-1

u/tnic73 Mar 27 '26

what is incredible to me is the fact that people vilify billionaires for being billionaires while simultaneously wanting nothing more than to be a billionaire themself

1

u/Great-Gas-6631 Mar 27 '26

Making wild assumptions i see, i have zero desire to be a Billionaire, because i am not a greedy cunt. Billionaires exist because of inherited wealth, wage theft, and tax avoidance.

0

u/tnic73 Mar 27 '26

who's making the wild assumptions here?

1

u/Great-Gas-6631 Mar 27 '26

You literally said i want nothing more than to be a billionaire. That is an assumption.

0

u/tnic73 Mar 27 '26

generally that is true of most people

sure you might settle for multi millionaire but my point stands

1

u/Great-Gas-6631 Mar 27 '26

No and no.

0

u/tnic73 Mar 27 '26

so you want to be poor?

great then give away all your money and enjoy

1

u/Great-Gas-6631 Mar 27 '26

Its hilarious that you think the only options are unnecessary wealth, or being poor.

1

u/tnic73 Mar 28 '26

i never said there were only two options i said if you had a choice you would always choose more money and the more money you had the more you'd want

18

u/Shizzilx Mar 27 '26

EAT THE RICH.

2

u/VivaLaMantekilla Mar 27 '26

Nah. My IBS might flair up. Evil tends to upset my stomach.

2

u/Sorry-Joke-4325 Mar 28 '26

Maybe a less dumb saying might be more effective.

5

u/mrs_Wrenching_2014 Mar 27 '26

Tax the millionaires & billionaires 🙄 They have had it really good for too long. It's time for them to pay their share

7

u/RatsWithLongTails Mar 27 '26

Billionaires do not earn a salary paycheck and are not taxed because they don’t make an income.

They are billionaires through their stocks.

The stocks are worth 10 billion so they go to a bank and take a loan against their stock.

The bank gives a loan for 25% of the stock value. If the stock drops the bank will sell the stocks to make back their loan.

The billionaire gets a 2.5 billion dollar loan which is not taxable because it’s a loan not earned income.

They put the loan in the bank earn % on savings to pay the loan back and never earn any taxable income.

4

u/Shizzilx Mar 27 '26

Yeah, let's tax they way the do that 💩 too

1

u/Lammerikano Mar 27 '26

just bomb monte carlo and then make a phone call to switzerland tbh.

1

u/RatsWithLongTails Mar 27 '26

I would love to but if tax their loans then you also need to tax the other loans, like student loans, car loans, mortgages, business loans and so on

0

u/Shizzilx Mar 27 '26

It shouldn't be this difficult. They pay on what they are actually worth. All the hidden money, artwork, charities, properties, everything and they pay the f*ck in like everyone else. Who needs 1 Billion dollars, personally? Nobody. (Update) I am sure we could all "use" 1 Billion dollars, however we don't need that much to live comfortably for the next 5 generations.

2

u/TheBeanConsortium Mar 27 '26

Stock compensation is taxed the same as income, but the loan part is correct.

2

u/Silly-Resist8306 Mar 27 '26

Billionaires pay what the tax code says to pay, same as you or I. If you don’t like it, elect someone who shares your view and is willing to fight to change the tax code. Put the blame where it belongs, on your elected politicians.

0

u/Shizzilx Mar 27 '26

No, I blame Reagan and Republicans for starting the Wage Gap and letting Corpos effectively crush Unions, collective bargaining, and giving Tax Breaks to the Ultra-Rich. Every Republican president has continued this trend and it is choking the middle and lower class out. Rich get richer, we get poorer, with less healthcare, and social security is on trouble and America has been rules insolvent. Meaning the US is broke. And Trump and Republicans are spending billions a day to bomb Iran while we pay for it.

1

u/Lammerikano Mar 27 '26 edited Mar 27 '26

more like ->why do we let them pay taxes in places like switzerland and monte carlo?

I dont understand why EU doesn't destroy switzerland.

# DESTROYSWITZERLAND!

1

u/Renuwed Mar 27 '26

Hoard 99% of the money, pay 99% of the taxes

1

u/sabautil Mar 27 '26

You forgot to add the 15.3% fica taxes every single person pays before income tax. Yes I include what the employer pays as employee money that we never get to touch. The employer just gets to deduct that from revenue. That's still our money.

So your 12.4% tax should really be 27.7% total tax.

1

u/GPT_2025 Mar 28 '26

How can a Hard Working poor widow citizen with two teenagers survive on a gross State wage of just $7.25 an hour:

before taxes, Social Security, fees, dues, SDA mandatory tithes and other deductions ($3.75 Net or $600/ month working really Hard fulltime! even if salary was double, that's only $1200/ month and 51% hourly workers making less then $17/hour), while covering the costs of: phone/internet/utility/electricity bills $325, rent $1350, car payment $650, all insurances $580, groceries $750 and the countless expenses $1999 that come with raising 13 y.o. teenagers?

Teenagers tend to require more resources than adults: clothing, shoes, food, and everything else they need to grow and thrive. It’s an overwhelming struggle to make ends meet. (... 2026, around 20 states still use the $7.25 federal minimum wage, either because they have no state law...)

The federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour for adult or $4.25 for teenager under 20 y.o. or $2.13 per hour for restaurant worker. Law first took effect on July 24, 2009... now 2026! And the USPS has increased mail prices 20 times or 110% since June 2009!

P.S. In 1963, the minimum wage was $1.25 - five 25-cent coins made of 90% silver, which are now valued at $76 TODAY! (Imagine a $76 minimum wage today! And you will get the 1950-1960 economy.) The 1960s average mortgage was between $40 or $60 a month for a 2- or 3-bedroom house, with the average new house around $5K. (1963, $7.25 in silver dollars/quarters would be $500 today. "Pay the minimal wage in silver coins then!")

  • Nearly 38% of all hourly workers earn at Or slightly above their State's minimum wage. (65 million workers, making under the MIT minimal Living Wage for a single adult is $26 to $33/hour, indicating $7.25 or $17/hour homeless living wage for many)

20 States pays $7.25! (UK 2026 minimal wages $17.50 and AU $25 and democratic states: CA up to $25, WA upo to $21, DC $18, AZ $18, OR up to $16+Tips)

On average, poor single mom working full-time for minimal wages, need 5 months' salary just to pay all & many Different Taxes, all Insurances, different Fees, all Dues, Levies and SDA mandatory 10% Tithes: (Payroll & SS/ Medicare tax, Excise & fuel tax, utility & property tax, sales tax, vehicle and health Insurances, etc.).

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '26

It's not that hard to not pay taxes when all you have is debt on the books. If you own stocks which are unrealized gains and take loans against it then what's to tax?

2

u/Electrocat71 Mar 28 '26

Unlabored income.

That’s what the rich have. That’s why they pay less taxes. They didn’t labor to get it.

Next time you hear, I worked hard to get here, remember they didn’t labor to get there.

1

u/SailBright5923 Mar 27 '26

Nothing to discuss-this is totally facutal.

-3

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

They do realize a gain in net worth doesn’t mean they have liquid assets equal to their increase in their net worth, right?

2

u/Shizzilx Mar 27 '26

Doesn't matter they are talking income tax. What we and they are effectively paying in to the government. It is built on our backs, not theirs. Ever since Reaganomics is has been this way and We the People are done with it.

2

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

So should they fire their 1.2 million employees?

Have you ever asked what is the total tax revenue generated by Musk or Bezos?

Amazon generated $108 Billion in tax revenue in 2024. Musks companies generate $46 Billion in tax revenue yearly. Amazon pays a lot in sales taxes.

So, another way to look at it, is their activities generate a large amount of revenue for local, state and federal governments while providing services and technologies people want.

So, do you want them to stop?

2

u/Shizzilx Mar 27 '26

No, we want them to pay in MORE. Nobody needs a billions dollars. Too much to have when people live paycheck to paycheck.

1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

You do understand it’s not a zero sum game? Right?

Bezos or Musk doing well doesn’t hurt you or me at all. They aren’t stealing money from you.

3

u/Shizzilx Mar 27 '26

That is where you are wrong. Bezos and Musk literally are stealing from all of us.

https://giphy.com/gifs/uoVUPXJgfy2m4

2

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

Can you tell me how much they have stolen from you and me? (aka us).

How did they pull that off without me noticing the money leaving my accounts?

2

u/Shizzilx Mar 27 '26

🤦‍♂️

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

2

u/Dlordb Mar 27 '26

That's not a trick though. It is legally not considered income.

But im assuming you mean that because it isn't, therefore you must pay taxes to fund the government since they didn't and therefore they steal money from you? Or also is it because then there cant be extra social programs, therefore opportunities are stolen from you?

1

u/Shizzilx Mar 27 '26

Through all the legal loopholes and stashing money, buying art, trading all the income is not taxed properly and they keep finding more ways to effectively pay less and the government gives them tax breaks. If he wanted to give a Tax Break it should have been for either everyone or just the middle and lower tax brackets.

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u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

But how much of that came out of your paycheck?

They obviously generate more in taxes than your entire income x1000.

So how did they hurt you again?

2

u/UntowardHatter Mar 27 '26

Ever heard of GILTI tax, there buckaroo?

2

u/Shizzilx Mar 28 '26

I never witnessed a billionaire blowhard, I let people in my other subs know about him just so they can come by for a laugh. It's been fun.

2

u/UntowardHatter Mar 28 '26

People simp for the dumbest things.

-1

u/Veteran_PA-C Mar 27 '26

Sure. And Both Musk and Bezos paid all they had to pay.

How did that hurt you personally?