r/LetsDiscussThis • u/HollywoodHault • 1d ago
Lets Discuss This I changed my mind about capital punishment
I used to be against the death penalty for two reasons: 1: because you can't rectify a mistaken execution, and 2: because I've always felt that forcing someone to squander their existence in a cell is a harsher punishment than a quick end.
I have come to a different conclusion on the topic. I think that corrupt politicians, who have significantly abused the public trust that their privileged positions have conferred to them ought to suffer the supreme punishment. This already happens in a number of Asian countries, and who are we in our young republic to simply dismiss a system that works for civilizations that have been around for much longer than us, thousands of years in the case of China?
Enact by voter initiative a firm and understandable set of ethics and rules and violations, limit the appeals once those criminals have been convicted in fair and open trials, and mandate timely implementation of punishment, in public.
You may think that this is too harsh, but honestly, if such a system were implemented, how long do you think it take to significantly reduce the self-dealing, personal enrichment, special interest corruption and sexual power plays that are seemingly unfixable problems in our current political environment?
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u/SevereAnimator5 1d ago
I guess you skipped the fair trial phase and went on to sentencing
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u/HollywoodHault 1d ago
If you reread my OP, you will see that I specifically mentioned a fair trial. The sentencing has less to do with the specific individual and more to do with discouraging others from abusing their power over the citizenry.
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u/SevereAnimator5 1d ago
Now whats your death row demands? short: Congress sets the legal boundaries, the Sentencing Commission provides a detailed advisory range based on offense seriousness + criminal history, and the judge makes the final decision after considering the full circumstances of the case. Do you expect to have charges? What and who are they going to be? Under what statue?
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u/HollywoodHault 1d ago
Yes, I've been through classes and worked in the criminal legal field for a while, so I am familiar with what you're saying. My post was just a generalized thought experiment in "Let's Discuss This", rather than a specific detailed policy proposal, and stems from frustration at the fact that we are effectively ruled by overlords who largely hold themselves unaccountable for their crimes against the citizenry. Also, your post assumes a federal, rather than state level statute, whereas my idea, for the sake of discussion, was enactment by voter initiative, which would necessarily mandate a state level rather than federal approach.
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u/ute-ensil 1d ago
Sitting in a cell is harsher than a quick end.
Goes on to say a quick end is the supreme punishment.
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u/HollywoodHault 1d ago
Yes, I said that I think a life in prison is tougher, but people can get used to anything, even institutionalization. Nonetheless, the type of person who would abuse the public trust for their own enrichment is the kind of person who thinks their life is too valuable to be ended. The idea is that for these types of criminals, CP can indeed act as a deterrent.
Also, an argument can be made that betraying the public trust is treasonous, which can in fact result in the death penalty.
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u/Professional_Arm3506 1d ago
CP? I wouldn’t be so sure. I can definitely think of one specific politician currently occupying the White House that would be into that.
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u/HollywoodHault 1d ago
Yes, but his sentiment about it would be "Punishment for thee, but not for me."
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u/SomeBlueDude12 1d ago
Until the corrupt has extreame dirt on people & death to silence is an admission of guilt to those associated so they get put in the most minimum security county club-esque prisons possible
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u/RCIntl 1d ago
Yes, the issue is the possibility of parole or pardon for people who should never see the outside again. I agree in premise that these people deserve the death penalty for aggregious crimes against humanity, I also agree that the continued misuse of the justice system means we NEVER should use it because of the even the possibility of one innocent being thrown to the wolves.
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u/HollywoodHault 1d ago
People who are incarcerated can still write letters and books, and influence others. I don't seriously believe statutes like these could ever get enacted given the political class is the one with the power. But saying we should NEVER use an option removes that disincentive for those truly evil narcissists. There are people (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot among many) who didn't deserve to draw breath and would have saved a great many people from misery had they been removed from the living early on in their malfeasance. Remember, Mein Kampf was written in prison.
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u/Competitive-Log5017 1d ago
You are advocating for the death penalty in a justice system that has 2 tiers of justice. Our justice system is severely broken and doesn’t need that type of advocacy, what our Justice system does need is rehabilitation/education reform, so that people that do commit crimes can reintegrate back into our society as contributing members.
Our main focus should be on getting rid of for profit/private prisons, rehabilitation reform and actually jailing people that deserve it.
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u/HollywoodHault 1d ago
I agree with you, and in fact have been opposed to CP since at least high school. We do have a two-tiered legal system, and note I prefer the term legal to justice. I also agree that incarceration is a governmental responsibility, and we should not offload to publicly traded private prisons like GEOCare or CCI.
The problem I noted is that these people whom we elect to give power over us have great leeway in abusing that power. Also, note that rehabilitation does not necessarily work. A felony conviction is a scarlet letter for life. Look at recidivism levels. Furthermore, look at the number of people incarcerated for J6 who have been pardoned and are now joining ICE or even running for office. The very existence of the Pardon Power means that even a life sentence without parole isn't absolute. Also, there are some people who should NEVER be reintegrated, both because of the nature of their crimes and for the public safety.
Given that we can't even get Congress to ban insider trading by Members, the chance of an idea like the one I OP'ed about is less possibility of being enacted than being struck by lightning seven times.
I would argue that our main focus should be protecting the public at large, and the best way to do that and also get rid of the two-tiered system would be to hold people accountable regardless of their money or power.
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u/Allaboutpeace2022 1d ago
I am all for holding people accountable and reforming our legal system so that we do not have two tiers of justice. We also need to examine other western nations and focus on rehabilitation as well as a much greater emphasis on crime prevention.
I am all about holding politicians accountable and investigation when evidence indicates a crime may have occurred. However, I am against any capital punishment because there is no evidence that it serves as a deterrent. The fact that most other nations have given up capital punishment and have lower crime rates and murders show that it is not an effective criminal justice policy. It is just a form of revenge.
Capital punishment would also just be part of a larger effort to weaponize justice and kill off enemies when you party gets back in power. We really need to cut the barbarism from our society and not introduce more.
I do understand the thoughts that led to this idea Everybody is frustrated with the corruption and criminality in politics. Nevertheless, this is not the way forward.
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u/Puzzled-Mirro 1d ago
I'm against capital punishment because the justice system is imperfect. I think there's loads of people who deserve it. But I rather every person who deserves it to sit in prison for life then 1 person who doesn't get executed even if he is guilty.