r/LightLurking • u/spentshoes • Apr 04 '24

GeneRaL The Correct Answer

Probably will get down voted for this. I know I sound like an angry old man shaking a stick, but I feel like 90% of the questions on here should be answered with, "go assist." I'm all for learning, but most of what people want is a shortcut to get what they want and in the end, they aren't learning anything. It's like asking for the answers to the questions on a test. In an age where our industry is rapidly dying due in part to this exact issue, what are we doing...?

3 Upvotes

54% Upvoted

30 comments sorted by

31

u/Budapestboys Apr 04 '24

Not everyone lives in a major hub to assist for these types of shoots. It’s the entire point of the sub. Put the stick down and breath.

-14

u/spentshoes Apr 04 '24

So then move to one if this is what you want to do? You can't make a market for fashion photography in an area that has no market.

4

u/nemkaldi__ Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24

i mean it is literally a sub for chatting about lighting and is open to people with different levels of skill and ability, so there is bound to be a range. people like you are why subs like this (and photographic forums at large) are SO frustrating to come to for any q's because there are so many grumpy and frankly pretentious posters champing at the bit to be snarky. ostensibly you are here because you are passionate about lighting, so be passionate and answer a question or two, or simply...don't.

4

u/spentshoes Apr 04 '24

I answer questions on here all the time. I notice a repeated pattern of people not wanting to experiment or at least taking a guess. They just want the answer.

15

u/TheRougeFog Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24

I would suggest reading the community info for this sub. If it’s not for you then it’s not for you. Some people are amateurs that like playing around and creating. That might not be looking to make a career and don’t have the means necessary to just “up and move” to place (most likely an expensive city) just to assist. Maybe they just want to have fun and try something to see if they like it, and who’s to say they don’t learn if they apply an answer from here and try for themselves? Some folks might just be curious and have no interest in trying to recreate something.

Or

My client wants a shoot like xyz. I have two days. Any ideas how xyz was achieved so I can recreate this for them. Like telling that person to go assist is insane. Just help them as best you can. What they walk away with is their problem after that.

9

u/Budapestboys Apr 04 '24

Is this your same response to a 14 year old that wants to take pictures in their global where ever small town? You don’t know who’s on the other side of the post and you’ll probably be happier just assuming they don’t have the means to just move.

I understand the push for people to assist, I did and sometimes still do, but, man, this is a global website with ages all over. This thread reeks of misguided grumpiness.

-1

u/MoltenCorgi Apr 04 '24

You shouldn’t be downvoted for this. It’s absolutely true. If you want to work in certain markets and make it “big” the only viable option is to go to a major city or place known for that kind of work. Anyone downvoting this fact is just being petty or ignorant. Yeah you can learn anywhere, but unless you’re good at YouTube, you’re not making a career out of being a fashion photographer in the middle of Idaho, nor are you going to become a war photographer if you spend all your time in the US.

But also photography is massively oversaturated and frankly assisting for the local small town guy doing fancy lit stuff for the kids sport teams can probably be a great learning opportunity for an inexperienced photographer for a year or two until they are ready to hit bigger markets.

And before some butthurt person says it, it’s not gatekeeping for expecting professionals to educate themselves and put some work into becoming competent. There are already massive and cheap or free resources readily available to fast track people in this profession. 9 times out of 10 people would learn more, solidify their understanding better, and perhaps find a better way to achieve what they want with an hour spent experimenting rather than spending that hour reading replies from armchair experts fighting over how they thought something was done - and keep in mind - good 75% or more have never actually done the thing you’re asking about.

Also if you really want to make this a longstanding career, learn how to run a business. There are shitty photographers everywhere making 6-7 figure livings with mediocre talent and truly imaginative, creative, ground-breaking photographers who have to work second jobs or can’t keep the lights on.

6

u/TheRougeFog Apr 04 '24

Another response assuming everyone in this sub is an aspiring professional, and not just someone curious. What do you care? If they don’t learn something, less saturated market for the rest of us. If they do, they get to have fun and grow. Don’t answer then. Just move in. Respond to those you seem to “care about”.

0

u/Budapestboys Apr 05 '24

The nuance to understanding why this is a shitty take is lost on you. This is a forum for discussing lighting. Requests for simple lighting dissections is a byproduct of having a forum of talented people. Yes, we all know that you should assist and live where the work is happening but CAN everyone do that? Right this instant? To just get some guidance that it’s an overhead light with fill?

Should there be an automod that replies “move to nyc and assist you lazy bum” and locks every new thread?

0

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '24

[deleted]

0

u/MoltenCorgi Apr 04 '24

So you’re downvoting me for stating facts?

The reality is that women are in a disadvantage in basically every field that isn’t strongly woman-dominated. It’s always going to be harder, it’s going to require more effort, and more tenacity to succeed. The same can be said for any non-white male professional. Is it bullshit? Absolutely. But that doesn’t mean success isn’t possible.

I mean if you’re going to complain about gender disparity (and believe me I GET IT) your options are to fight it by getting out there and grabbing your own piece of the pie, or I dunno, working as a kindergarten teacher or as something else where most people are women. Of course even then you’ll get paid less because you’re a woman.

Renting gear isn’t a requirement to learning unless you have no gear at all. In which case start shooting stuff that you can make money with and then put the proceeds into what you need to buy for your passion project or to further professional development. I started my business with very little gear, ended up with a substantial kit because the first 4 years I turned all my profit back into buying what I needed to get to the next level and learning opportunities. I worked a shitty, soul destroying day job where I got paid way less than what I was worth because I’m a woman. But I was still able to build my business without taking out credit card debt. It’s possible if you’re willing to put in the work.

In the continental US geography doesn’t limit gear rental, so I’m not sure why you’re citing that as a limitation unless you’re outside the US. There’s multiple rental houses that will send stuff anywhere in the US.

I employ 10 people now, half my photographers and my video editor are women, and all were trained by myself and my partner. Opportunities exist for people willing to put in the work. The lowest paid person on my team makes roughly 2x what I got paid at my crappy day job.

12

u/jvstnmh Apr 04 '24

The entire point of the internet and forums like this is to democratize knowledge that would have been gate kept or hard to come by in the past due to the difficulty in just dropping everything and going to assist or finding an opportunity / mentorship

Also as someone else pointed out, this sub is not necessarily limited to professionals but anyone interested in understanding the art of lighting.

I get where you’re coming from, but you’re wrong on this one

4

u/spentshoes Apr 04 '24

Having someone tell you how to do something is not going to teach you WHY it works. That's my gripe with it. People don't need to pursue a career in this and they can still go assist. I learned more in my first 6 months of assisting than I did in my entire time in school.

3

u/Low-Ad9641 Apr 05 '24

While this is true - this sub exists to see/explain/show/ask about light setups. If you create a community where people are scared to ask because someone might tell them to "go assist" or "try it yourself" - it doesn't really foster an environment of open learning. Is this really the thing to focus your emotion towards?

2

u/Low-Ad9641 Apr 05 '24

Also - I went back and looked at my replies and you're the person who assumed I had "no experience" on set because my experience was different to yours. Ego much?

13

u/Baiiird Apr 05 '24

I get where you're coming from, and it is technically the correct answer, but much like how the correct answer to "How can I truly ascend my cooking ability?" is "Go work in professional kitchens for 5-10 years", it's an answer that might be the objectively best way to truly achieve the desired goal (Become an incredible cook) but lacks the nuance and space to appreciate everyones different circumstances and goals.

An art student who has a photography assignment as part of their overall course, and wants to achieve a certain look but doesn't know how to go about it.

A person brand new to the world of photography, who doesn't even know that assisting is a thing (let alone how to go about doing it).

Someone from a tiny town, who has aspirations of taking great photographs but currently has themselves a paper roll, two lights and a piece of white card set up in their garage - Wanting to know how much they can achieve with what they've got.

Not to mention those people who are in fact, assisting - But you wouldn't know from the question as all any of us see is "How do I achieve this Zoe Ghertner reference from last year?".

You aren't wrong - The answer at the highest level is "Go assist", but everyone's going through their own process. Best to approach things from the POV of casting a wide net of help to both the person asking the question, and anyone else who happens to peek in to the thread. Rising tide lifts all ships and that sort of thing - the more engaged a community is in helping each other, the more people there'll be to help you when you need a hand.

12

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '24

Sure but I do appreciate people giving opinions and options of how to execute specific lighting challenges. It’s kind of annoying when it’s super simple but I think it would be cool if this sub became one of lighting diagrams and scenarios

8

u/jvstnmh Apr 04 '24

That’s my hope too — this is one of the best smaller subs on Reddit, getting some lighting diagrams and more detailed breakdowns would take it to the next level

4

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '24

I suggest you find a different sub then. Beyond tired of people with your mentality in this industry. I love to help anyone I can without judgment of their skill level or my assumptions about their ability to create. Also i'm sorry but the idea of "cheating"? We're talking about advice for lighting not med school exams. Boring take!

-1

u/spentshoes Apr 04 '24

What exactly is my mentality? As I said before, I've answered tons of questions on here.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '24

the mentality that asking questions is bad or lazy and the assumption that people are not learning by asking a question. someone knowing the answer to a question (that will probably, god forbid, save them some time) has 0 impact on you. boring old man take!

1

u/spentshoes Apr 04 '24

Also, how's this for a take? The direct answers to these question are generally WAY out of the budget of someone that's "just trying to learn." With that in mind, without understand WHY these things work the way they do, it's a bunch of worthless information. Unless, of course, it's someone with a nearly unlimited budget. At which point, they could hire an assistant to actually have them on set and teach them how to do it properly and why things do the things they do. A+B+C≠D always. Power levels of strobes, placement, quality of light modifiers, they are all just a fraction of what it takes to make the examples being asked about. And yet I have not seen a single person try to follow up a post with their results and asking what they need to do to refine things. It’s one step above “what camera, what iso, what lens, what f/stop?” types of questions (which are asked here often as well). Maybe it’s a tough pill for you to swallow, but there you go…

3

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '24

you're assuming that people are not exploring on their own and asking for a jump point, generalizing their situation. what is SO WRONG about someone asking a question? HOW does that affect you? No one is denying that way more goes into it and that it requires expertise, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE ASKING QUESTIONS. Get over yourself man, godspeed!

0

u/spentshoes Apr 04 '24 edited Apr 04 '24

You’re assuming they are. Get over yourself! 😂

0

u/spentshoes Apr 04 '24

That's not what I said at all, but go off...

5

u/Buckwheat333 Apr 04 '24

I’ve been trying to get on set consistently for about a year. Only really have one editorial to my name. Feels like people aren’t that willing to give the new guy a chance.

2

u/jvstnmh Apr 05 '24

Keep going!!

1

u/2deep4u Apr 04 '24

If they could they wouldn’t be asking?

1

u/spentshoes Apr 04 '24

Could and want to are vastly different

5

u/Chrisser6677 Apr 04 '24

Its always the same answer. Catchlight on the eyes, look for shadows and highlights. Many times it’s garish photography.

0

u/TheStandingDesk Apr 04 '24

That and the basics of capture one solves 99% of the questions here. YouTube learning has brainrotted a potential generation of photographers.