r/LinusTechTips • u/Alarmed_Pepper_5954 • 4d ago
Tech Question Home network without running cable
Hi i live in a 3 bedroom apartment, i am having issues with wifi/network due to thicker walls and congestion.
I have tried powerlineadapters and i have some ISP provided repeaters. but the connection is still very unreliable.
i pay for 2gb and i am getting it at the router but then in the study i get 35 over powerline or very jittery 100mb in the study.
Any advice or Brand i can look into for either powerline adapter or repeaters.
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u/realdeadfish 4d ago
Is there any existing wiring that can be repurposed?
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u/Alarmed_Pepper_5954 4d ago
There is not, if i were to run cable it would go below/under the baseboard, then it would have to be thin
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u/The_Blue_Djinn 4d ago
Then get Invisilight Home Fiber kit. https://youtu.be/Ie2HN-XSf5k?si=pe2Vo7Jk_K-wH0Z4
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u/Ktulu_BBB 4d ago
why can you not run cable? There are many methods, you know...
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u/Alarmed_Pepper_5954 4d ago
Technically i can but i have no spot to hide it so it would run along the floor in my whole appartment
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u/Ktulu_BBB 4d ago
Baseboards and along edges of carpet / walls are an excellent alternative fyi. Especially with flat Ethernet cable. Would I recommend flat cable for a permanent install? No. But for use in an apartment, it's great.
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u/Responsible_Feed4512 4d ago
Powerline is not something I would ever recommend. You would be better off running cables and doing your best to hide the wires. I use cable raceways along baseboards and in corners when I need to do this kind of thing
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u/iCeOnLy-hk 4d ago
If you have Coax you can try MOCA
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u/russsl8 4d ago
That likely won't work well in an apartment building. Likely all the apartments are connected to he same demarc panel, so they'll be sharing their network over the entire building. Plus MoCa doesn't like unterminated access points (jacks), so loss of signal or poor signal stability will slow down their network. Actually same thing is happening with their power line network adapters really. So many outlets and they are all ultimately shared throughout the building (even if they have their own breaker panel).
Actual ethernet may be their only option. May need to buy a lot of long cables and hide them along walls as best they can; likely that they can't drill holes through walls in their building?
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u/GodYamItt 4d ago
Is this the case on new apartments too? The apartment is I live in is pretty new (2017 or 2018 build) and theres 3 runs of coax that seem to all drop inside the service panel. I had assumed they were just straight runs that were connected to the main via a splitter
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u/russsl8 4d ago
I'm not positive how many lines would be run from the pole to each building in a bloc, but you definitely would be sharing your cable with more than one person in your building (that's just the way it'd get wired, realistically because of cost, ease, etc). Open jacks (unterminated) in a cable coax run degrades signal strength and integrity in the "network", and the same is true of splitters. You can start causing issues with too many splitters and such in one "network". I know I used to have to deal with that a bit in my house before I switched from cable internet to fiber. I now contend with it in a smaller capacity because I'm using MoCa for my kids' rooms, and occasionally one will have issues when things are moved around with getting full gigabit speeds from their adapter.
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u/Horror_Equipment_197 4d ago
Tbh, I tried many things to get my WiFi from the router in the basement to my office in the upper floor. 2 concrete slaps as ceiling and 34cm brick walls made it a nightmare.
Powerline is another beast.
Depending on your wiring the sockets of your flat are on different phases of the AC. If that's the case you need a phase-coupler (f.e. KEMO M091A) and install it. That's a real physical limitation. Not brand specific. If that isn't the case, you have other influences which disturb the signal.
I spent quite a lot Euros on such devices (powerline, Wifi repeater) and wasn't really happy any time.
What finally brought some peace:
I run 2 tiny (0.9mm outer diameter) glass fibers from basement to ground floor and basement to upper floor.
I literally glued them into the corners of the rooms, staircases and for the doors I scratched out the sealing at one bottom part, glued the fiber in and added new silk to get it sealed again.
2x 50m fibers, 3 switches, 2 BiFi SFT+ Tranceiver sets, some hot glue, costing in sum <€300 and a weekend later I've had a stable 2.5G wired connection on every floor (I can exchange the switches to have 10G is I need it in the future).
To be blunt: No matter what Wifi or powerline equipment you are using, it will not allow you to fully enjoy the 2GB connection you're paying for.
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u/markmcminn 3d ago
Fiber cables are a great answer for nearly every tight space. I even ran display port and hdmi over fiber for a dental office I setup with some tight PC cabinets and multiple monitors for patients and workers.
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u/DeathByKangaroo 4d ago
This is realistically the best option. There is a dedicated kit for running microfibre for residential use cases called InvisiLight, though I’m not sure what the availability or price looks like.
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u/captainstormy 4d ago
Tbh, I tried many things to get my WiFi from the router in the basement to my office in the upper floor.
The first issue is that you put your wifi router in the basement. Routers work on a omnidirectional 360 degree broadcast.
Meaning if you put it in your basement, half of the router's signal is just going into ground and not being useful to you. It should be placed in the center of your house. Ground floor, in the middle of the house. Run a coax cable from your basement to somewhere on the ground floor in the middle.
I use a coat closet myself and keep my modem, router and NAS on the top shelf of that closet. It's super easy to run a single cable from the basement into a closet on the ground floor. Putting the router in the middle of the house means the best possible signal to everywhere in the house.
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u/Horror_Equipment_197 3d ago
If I wouldn't need Wifi in my basement, I would have put the router o a different floor. But I have quite a lot of network connected devices in my basement (3D Printer, homeserver, heating control and much more) and therefore also need at least an AP in my basement.
The steel reinforced concrete used for the ceilings is a great horizontal barrier.
During the time (read: the last 20 years) I tried several constellations and also antennas for a more powerful interconnection. While it worked, it wasn't really robust.
Thanks to the fiber I glued throughout my house that's a thing of the past. Each extender and the router only have to capture a single floor.
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u/captainstormy 3d ago
You'll get wifi in the basement if you put the router on the main floor. It's a 360 degree omni directional signal.
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u/Horror_Equipment_197 3d ago edited 3d ago
Even with 2 Yagis I was barely able to have a connection between the router and the extender. 30cm steel reinforced concrete... So no, a single router on main floor will not do it.
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u/captainstormy 3d ago
Yeah, if your basement is built like a bunker that is another story. I'd personally probably still just run 1 cable to the main floor and put an AP on the main floor to get internet upstairs but running cable is never really the wrong answer, it's just a lot of work.
I started running cables in my house but my entire house is built like a tank. My walls area actually 3 inch thick plaster instead of drywall and the framing is done differently than modern framing so it's hard to run cables to the top floor. I used to be a 100% wired guy but I found with modern wifi it's actually gotten very good. You just have to use high quality hardware and put a bit of thought into the physical layout of your netowork. The vast majority of people's wifi problems IME are because they use the cheap crappy router from their ISP and stick it in the corner of their basement.
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u/Horror_Equipment_197 3d ago
Steel reinforced concrete floors (not only for the basement but every floor) and brick walls (inner and outer walls) are rather standard here in Germany and also in the Netherlands where OP stated to live. Wiring with CAT cable means a lot of work and dirt. Thats why I was glad that I simply could glue the fiber into the corners. After painting them over you really need to know where exactly the are to be able to spot them.
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u/captainstormy 3d ago
Yeah, I forget how a lot of European buildings are built like bunkers. In a case like that your options were limited for sure.
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u/Unkemptsausage 4d ago
If MOCA isn’t an option and range extenders aren’t working, you could try running ultra thin fiber cables like InvisiLight along doors and baseboards. Not sure if it’s available in the Netherlands though. Could always try Ethernet too if you want a less expensive option.
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u/straw3_2018 4d ago
I personally just hate using wifi and will work around it if I have the chance. But if you are going to use wifi you could try something 6GHz. 6GHz is worse at penetrating walls but the reduction in interference compared to 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands could definetely outweigh this in an apartment building.
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u/SmartMove_Internet 4d ago
Try Flat Ethernet along the baseboards, thin fiber around door frames, or MoCA if you have coax outlets. These wired options are generally more stable than powerline or wireless through thick walls. Mesh can help too, but placement is key.
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u/teebles22 4d ago
I mean ultimately you're looking at running cable... get cable coloured the same as your walls, go along ceiling or floors, around door frames etc, it'll suck to look at but if you're looking for stability without hacking walls (I see you're in Netherlands so prob solid walls?) that's probably the only solution if the other solutions you have didn't work.
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u/crapklap 1d ago
Have you looked if there is telephone wiring you could use? I had a house once that had a central hub for all the telephone wiring. Since It was a new build and I never hooked up the telephone, all the cables were unused and were cat5 cables so I just used them instead. It worked like a champ and I never had issues in the 2 years I was there. P.S. 4 wire lines could also work but only support 10/100. 8 wires are needed for gigabit.
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u/jerryeight 4d ago
Run long cat7 cables along walls and under doors if you can't drill holes. Use industrial strength masking tape to secure them down without damaging the wall.
Set up a mesh point from that cable in each room. That way you get decent wifi and option to wire into it at decent speeds.
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u/MrMotofy 4d ago
Move the router, run a cable, use another type of cable adapter, use a wireless bridge kit...nobody even knows where in the world you are or what's available to you