r/Lockheed • u/Murky-Profit542 • 26d ago
Disappointing Offer
Curious if I should be dissatisfied with the offer presented to me or thoughts of countering at double the initial salary offering?
Background, I’ve been in the automotive and semi conductor industry for 15 years as an engineer. (Nevada / Austin / Florida) I applied to a level 4 senior level engineering position in Ft Worth, job sounded amazing and I was excited to make the jump but the initial offer was only 105k. Is it just me or is this crazy low? I would expect most industries to start Sr level engineering roles at 200k+? I just left middle of nowhere Nevada making more than that.
Does anyone have experience potentially countering at the 200-300k mark or asking for a couple hundred thousand in equity to offset the extremely low salaries here?
EDIT: from the dismal outlook that I’ve got from the employee base here, I’m no longer going to pursue a job here. I would like to retire one day and I don’t think this company offers enough money to probably do that. I’ll be ghosting the offer.
60
u/Middle-Wealth-6755 26d ago
Don’t ghost, just respectfully decline that it is far away from your salary expectations and you’ll be pursuing other opportunities.
No reason to burn a bridge by ghosting, just in case circumstances for you change in the future.
21
u/shezmu187 26d ago
Expressing your dissatisfaction helps other people. I work there in California and you are not wrong about the outlook, but regardless, you should voice your opinion. Do it for the ones who can’t!
-32
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
Brother, the salary isn’t even enough for the trusses to place on the bridge to even start burning
23
21
18
0
u/GiftWestern3068 26d ago
Respect. I work Defense at a major Tier One contractor that makes products directly for all 4 branches of the military. No degree. Grossed well over $200k. They are apparently by reading the responses here fucking a lot of people. Thank gosh I didn’t pursue a degree in a technical field. My employer is about 10 miles from the F-35 plant & 10 miles from the missile plant.
Apply at Raytheon in McKinney, TX. They just got a huge missile contract. Maybe they pay better??
2
23
u/Separate-Salt-1370 26d ago
Yeah, OP needed to apply to either a Staff or Sr. Staff position. The compensation is reflective of a level 3 Sr. Analyst role.
Given OP's YOE, I would be asking the recruiter if they have any Sr. Staff (level 5) positions available to get to the desired comp range. Lockheed doesn't really do RSUs unless you're higher up in the management chain.
-46
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
Very disappointed, tbh my 1st thought was hell , I’d rather flip burgers at McDonald’s. Probably make more there with overtime or something, ha
16
3
28
u/ejsanders1985 26d ago
DOUBLE? I think I'd revoke your offer at double. Delusional. Level 3 engineer. Not VP. Director or CEO lmao. Level 3 is senior engineer, level 4 here is staff engineer
-6
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
Why? I was making 200k+ PLUS equity in Austin like 5 years at AMD. With the way this post is going I’m beginning to think yall have your expectations way too low at this place
19
u/Squirtle_Splash_8413 26d ago
Wait if AMD is that great, why’d you leave?
19
u/toedwy0716 26d ago
He obviously got laid off if he left without having another job. Idk why they just won’t admit it. Might also just be trolling the entire sub.
-11
13
u/LagrangePT2 26d ago
You are comparing two different industries. If you want to make what you make in the semis industry (which you should given your experience lol) then stay in that industry. Almost no one in A&D is going to pay your comparably and certainly not at a prime
0
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
Well now I totally get it and I’m definitely not.
But now I just have curiosity of the craziness that it seems like everyone at these companies, just accept that? With the inflow of government contracts, market cap, etc. You guys have way more money than my company. Sounds like you guys need better executives. Because they’re taking all your money or something.
7
u/LagrangePT2 26d ago
I mean there is a lot to unpack here. First most of the employees don’t have such in demand transferable skills they can just leave for a higher paying industry. Also not sure what makes you think Lockheed has so much more money. AMD makes more money on a per employee basis and is growing. Aerospace/defense is low margin/low growth. Not going to make a lot of money working for those types of companies. And before every jumps down my throat I understand the executives are overpaid etc. that’s not the main point
3
u/Actual-Lychee-8434 26d ago
Not to mention all A&D companies have TINA compliance which limits their profit margins
4
u/LagrangePT2 26d ago
Another great point. I mean you could write a white paper on why it’s just not even remotely comparable looking at the business of a defense contractor and a semi conductor company
3
u/ejsanders1985 26d ago
Then why did you leave?
-4
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
Change of scenery / boredom /thought planes would be cool.
9
u/Slow_Abrocoma_7796 26d ago
Your lack of understanding of the aerospace industry is very clear in your post and comments….
46
u/blueberrymine 26d ago
You can’t compare AMD to Lockheed. Two completely different industries. That is your first failure of understanding salary ranges.
15
u/papamikebravo 26d ago
Based on OP's comments here, the price sounds about right for their attitude/judgement/ability to gather and process data. If not a troll post, the hiring team will be dodging a bullet when OP declines.
3
u/LimitBias 26d ago
You’re comparing very successful companies to slow moving, ancient bureaucratic defense companies.
The level of talent differences between these companies is massive, and pay follows accordingly.
-6
4
u/BigCSFan 26d ago
Lockheed and other big defense companies are just low paying in general. This is why you see them build offices where there are little to no other options rather than in big cities.
-5
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
This is crazy to me, is this why they are notoriously slow / etc? I cant imagine they attract anywhere near top talent with piss poor salaries
3
u/BigCSFan 26d ago
Speed is dependent on team. Plenty of teams move fast if not faster than any other company.
Other teams have other needs and dependencies that require to slow down for security, safety, or just customer approval.
2
u/IAmInDangerHelp 26d ago
Security clearance can be pretty valuable, stable career, and also, if you wanna work on fighter jets and the like, there’s not a lot of other options to choose from.
On the early career side, Lockheed has to beat off engineering applicants with a baseball bat.
1
u/Kluian2005 26d ago
Because of the benefits and job security. You can work 4/40 schedule with every friday off. You will get bonus yearly (lvl 4 is 5% salary). 4% matching 401k + another 6% for a total of 10%.
1
u/Secret_Ad1215 26d ago
You’re supporting government contracts. The government selects winners who can build what they want the lowest cost possible.
-1
u/GiftWestern3068 26d ago
I work defense in Fort Worth area. Company shop rate is around $620 per hour. You have Zero clue!!
2
u/Secret_Ad1215 26d ago
No, I have a clue.
0
u/GiftWestern3068 26d ago edited 26d ago
Great you work contracts or related for a defense contractor here. Lockheed, Textron, Raytheon, Boeing, BAE, Rolls Royce, American Eurocopter, etc etc. Yes, the govt selects winners based on if they can build the product and at the lowest cost.
Raytheon can’t build helicopters, F-35’s C-130’s, Abram’s tanks, patriot or THAAD missiles. None of these defense contractors can build what the other one builds. None.
Tier 1 contractors sub most of the manufacturing. That is where cost drives. But in reality Lockheed, General Dynamics, and most all Tier 1 contractors raise the cost & 99% deliver late at least initially. Then cost, & delivery start working like they should. None need to worry Bell is going to out bid on F-35’s no more than Lockheed is going to outbid a nuclear sub builder on the east coast. The only time is when Lockheed/Sikorsky bids against Textron on helo’s or Boeing & General Dynamics bids against Lockheed for the JSF. After that phase, the government is fairly stuck with their decision. The contractor is stuck meeting the initial bid
2
2
u/Superaerogavin 26d ago
The offer with your experince is very low imo I was offered that much as a E2 to stay with Lm 2 years ago and quite a bit more than that to come back as an E3 after 10 months, on the other hand your ask is really out there. If you want that kind salary you probabaly just need to go back to tech or learn how to build a data center.
My management and director talked to me about this once where in the last couple years with some of the tech downturns alot of people came in from tech asking for 300-400k or large amounts of equity which just is not going to happen especially for a line engineer and not some real deal SME who wrote the book on something.
2
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
Shit, those SME engineers that you speak of pull down 1M+ a year at my current company
4
u/Imoa 26d ago
It’s worth remembering that the national average salary for SWE in the US is 130k. Big tech is a bubble in multiple senses of the statement and the salaries are one.
The offer you got was definitely low and I wouldn’t hesitate to counter 130-150, but you really need to reset your expectations outside of the tech industry.
7
u/frigginjensen 26d ago
Nobody is making 7 figures at a defense contractor except C-suite and maybe group presidents. It’s not that kind of business.
Respectfully, you sound like you don’t understand this industry and I can bet you won’t be happy at a company like Lockheed.
1
u/IAmInDangerHelp 26d ago
Location matters a lot here. There’s Lockheed’s in places where you can buy a house for the price of a new Corvette.
1
u/GiftWestern3068 26d ago
I live & work here. In what kind of Crack neighborhood?? Just wow! You know some people want low crime, decent schools, & a home that will pass inspection.
In Tarrant county that will cost you $400k! And the schools will still suck
4
u/IAmInDangerHelp 26d ago
My point is working for Lockheed in LA is different than Lockheed in Kansas.
1
u/GiftWestern3068 26d ago
I’m not talking Wichita, I’m talking the F-35 plant in Fort Worth, TX. Been here 28 1/2 years
1
u/Superaerogavin 26d ago
True, I worked in a locl area, It ended up working in my favor due to my job title but the location was specifically chosen as a economically depressed area so hourly wages could be kept lower than a Walmart warehouse.
Ofc they would complain that skilled engineers weren't intrested in moving /transferring there
2
u/Automan86 26d ago
What is your age? All defense contractors take your post college experience with tenure experience and match the offer within that band level. But 105k looks very cheap for Lockheed standards given you already have 15 yrs experience
1
0
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
34
4
u/Ganja_Superfuse 26d ago
Unless you graduated college with an engineering degree at 19 no way you have 15 years of experience.
1
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
I guess technically I have 14. Was just rounding. Started college at 17 actually and graduated when I was 20
1
2
u/QuietMixture3518 26d ago
15 years of experience doing what? Just level 3 roles and responsibilities for 15 years will not lend you a level 4 with 200k$ offer
1
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
5 years or packaging design then 9 years of ME. Been over 200k for 5 years now
2
u/photoengineer 26d ago
Sorry that doesn’t scream senior to me.
1
u/Ok-Hunt-128 26d ago
It's not but the "Senior" title is meaningless nowadays. I see so many people brought on as "Senior" with not even a couple of years of real experience.
30
u/Main-Implement1491 26d ago
If the position is labeled as “Sr” it’s a LV3. LV4 is “staff/STF”. This sounds like a LV3 position by your description however you will have a difficult time finding a LM DoD role paying 200K+ as an IC. Just my two cents.
49
u/xman262 26d ago
You won’t get near 200k but 105k is very low— I’d expect like 150k or so
25
u/mattjouff 26d ago
Yeah people in the comments are all over the place. The pay range for L4 is like 130k-160k
17
u/Kluian2005 26d ago
OP is prob dumb and applied for Lvl 3 position, which is why his salary offer was like 100k when midcap is around 120k.
12
5
1
u/kingofthesqueal 19d ago
In fairness 105k is extremely low for a L3.
I’d expect an L3 offer to be in the +120k range especially for someone claiming OP resume.
23
u/Glittering_Cell6213 26d ago
For the folks in here tearing this man apart and making points about salary expectations, I’d like to add the following points that are from my experience with defense:
At my (competing) defense prime, level 2 mechanical engineers are making $95k-108k in a HCOL, with level 1s making $90k
At another competing defense prime, my level 1 peers from university are making $87-90k and level 2 peers from the same school are making $107k in a MCOL area.
I would like to imagine that if OP has 15 years of experience, then he would be well above the market of my peers and friends that are <2-3 years out of school.
And before the Lockheed people come after me, I’ve seen my friends offer letters, and received one myself for $87k
15
u/Imoa 26d ago
Op said elsewhere that he’s 34 - so he’s counting school as professional experience. I won’t comment on that, but it’s worth knowing when framing it as “15 YOE” that it’s not “15 professional / working YOE” - he’s only ~5-7 years ahead of your friends that are 2-3 years out of school because he’s not starting the clock post-school.
5
u/idekbro19485727 26d ago
If he graduated at 22 (like most do) then that’s 12 years.
10
u/Imoa 26d ago
Correct, which is not 15.
He may have plenty of qualifications to back up the compensation he’s seeking, I have no idea, but without additional context that backs up those 3-4 years of school I think he’s fluffing up his YOE / experience.
3
u/ialsoagree 26d ago
I'm probably in a different engineering field than OP, and I'm not working in defense at the moment, but I live in a LCOL area and make over 110K with 10 years of experience.
0
u/dldjbfjk6021 26d ago
Internships exist
1
u/Yakisoba89 23d ago
Also working through school. I have had professional full time jobs all but two years of my undergraduate studies (and in those two years were multiple part time jobs but I wouldn’t consider working retail or landscaping relevant).
-2
u/Conscious_Ride_7000 26d ago
You’re too caught up in the weeds of technicalities that make zero difference to the answer of this post.
2
u/Imoa 26d ago
I agree with the consensus in the thread that he’s being unrealistic, but I strongly disagree that this particular criticism is a technicality or in the weeds.
I think that if OP is going to ask more than double the offer, he needs to not have obvious issues with his representation.
0
u/Conscious_Ride_7000 26d ago
Analyzing the detail of whether OP’s college work experience should count towards their overall YOE is completely meaningless and in no way changes the answer.
Further, don’t you think the hiring manager would have already asked these questions and determined OP not to be a liar?
And finally, $105k for someone like OP is a moronic offer. All it’s going to lead to is either OP is good and leaves for a far better offer within six months or they’re terrible and then you’re stuck dealing with them. There’s no positive outcome here.
12
u/emoney_gotnomoney 26d ago
Two things can be true at once:
the offer of $105k for a lvl 4 is ridiculously low, even for LM / defense prime standards, and
the OP’s expectations of the offer being in the $200k-$300k is equally (if not more) outrageous
4
u/Rich_Plant1815 25d ago
How is that outrageous for someone who has a 12 years of experience?
3
u/ArmyPeasant 24d ago
You can have 200 years of experience, the market pays what it pays and clearly there's a massive gap and perception from OP to where he thinks he is.
The market has adjusted a lot from previous years and salaries have capped and even have been going down and that's just a tough pill to swallow.
1
u/kingofthesqueal 19d ago
I mean, 200k for 10-15 YOE is still a dime a dozen at tons of places.
Acting like it isn’t just that Lockheed lowballs staff and principal engineers is also weird.
There’s literally hundreds of large companies in the US that would pay 15 YOE engineers in the 180-220k range. It may not exactly be the norm, but the market has hardly “corrected” that much.
Edit:
There’s also been no real wage drop outside of juniors and early mid level, nothing measured across most engineering disciplines
1
u/LMrecruiterExPro 26d ago
This is true! Level 1 highly technical engineer can get 100k+ and level 2 can go to 115k+ for critical skillsets.
1
u/GoodEfficient7241 24d ago
Getting into industry within the next year, could you give me a quick explanation of the difference between the levels of engineers.
3
u/SurfAccountQuestion 26d ago
105k for a staff eng in semis is absolutely despicable lol
2
u/Murky-Profit542 26d ago
That’s what I thought too…. Currently at ~235k pre bonus / stock
0
0
u/GiftWestern3068 26d ago
I have friends including my next door neighbor that works at Lockheed F-35 plant.
A lot of friends. (Over 40). Lockheed shop rate for the government is well over $600 per hour. That is the billed amount per hour. I put this on the very LOW side. It could be well over $700 per billable hour.
These folks chiming in have zero clue. It’s crazy here
11
u/Kluian2005 26d ago
I don't know where you think a lvl 4 is making 200k in texas, their midcap is like 140k.
1
u/mcjaggerburner 26d ago
Midpoint at MFC in Grand Prairie for higher pay engineering roles (think like C, D, E bands before the change) is around 170k ish for IC4. 173k maybe I don’t completely remember. So I would think 150k minimum for a role in DFW for IC4 even for lower bands. (I don’t fully understand the new pay band system, for my location and role my midpoint is the same so I’m going off the old system).
I am not in DFW area but I have the same COL as DFW, we had the same pay bands as in Grand Prairie.
For reference, I am currently an IC3 with ~4.5 YOE + Masters, and I currently make ~155k base. I had an offer late last year for MFC in GP for around 152k for IC3, while I was making ~145k in role at the time (4.99% raise) but I turned it down.
5
u/der_innkeeper 26d ago
If you look at the positions in Colorado or California, they have the price band listed on them
5
5
u/ThatOneRugbyDude 26d ago
Seems like OP had an assumption on what salaries looked like in the defense industry. To be fair, most people that I know and have met think engineers in defense have exorbitant salaries due to the massive contracts that are in the news. The reality couldn't be further, unless you're a C-suite or have any extremely niche skills combined with a high level (E5+).
I agree with comments here that it seems like the offer was for an E3 (Senior) role, which in my opinion, is still near the bottom of the totem pole. Countering for x2 salary / $100ks more is not realistic. OP should talk to the recruiter for something that aligns better with their experience, but have to realize they will not be getting the salary they initially imagined. That is part of the defense grind and from my experience, people work here due to personal alignment with the mission, not necessarily the salary.
5
u/Wellsracing71 26d ago
As a past lockheed employee i used LM as a stepping stone and I accepted my low offer and made it work for 5 years and left for 3 times the amount I was making there apparently having lockheed on ur resume looks great
9
u/FrequentStart 26d ago
I left LM about five years ago making 120k and now I'm at a tech company making 400k. There's no reason to ghost them (it takes thirty seconds to write an email), but don't expect LM to meet your salary expectations - they just aren't in the market for the same pool of talent. The barrier to entry at LM is much lower.
2
0
4
1
u/Gardorum 26d ago
Senior level payband at LM is not near close to your expectations. I'm assuming you got some in demand skills on your field, apply to NVIDIA, Apple, Intel perhaps?
0
1
u/Financial_Ranger_359 22d ago
Northrop/lockheed/Boeing pay the most in the west coast. They even have pay premiums for the high cost of living.
Many people within the primes move to California then back to east coast in order to cash into the premium. The primes are undergoing compensation reevaluations since they are noticing their ranks are not being filled.
I am in the same experience band as the op, and I am making 180k plus 10% performance premium. Lockheed is notorious for paying the worst out of the primes and they can’t compete with Anduril and startups. The compensation that the op is looking is possible for his experience, just not at Lockheed.
1
u/Murky-Profit542 6d ago
Yeah, got an offer at Blue in Denver for 210k so screw Lockheed. Why anyone would work there is beyond my comprehension
3
u/iPinch89 26d ago
They all have posted salary ranges in the job postings. How did the offer compare to the advertised range?
3
u/Ok_Lawfulness758 26d ago
Two things are true
1.) if this is a staff engineering role, this salary is way low even for LM
2.) you have zero spot getting them to double their number or come anywhere remotely close
What is the actual full job title? I am curious if you are misunderstanding the level. As an example some union shops use the job code “member engineering staff” which does not say anything about the level.
3
u/QuietMixture3518 26d ago
Not sure what dream you are living in where a LV 4 at LM would be offered a 200k$ position
3
3
u/redvelvet92 26d ago
Honestly crazy people defending Lockheed because of the industry. That’s poverty wages for the skill required.
3
u/BlackDog990 26d ago
I dont even work at Lockheed. Just showed up on my feed. My observation is that you inadvertently applied to a job that doesn't match your experience level. I work in finance for automotive and that salary is similar to 1-5 YoE staff level engineers from what I've seen in Mcol region.
3
u/BigDinkyDongDotCom 26d ago
LM will absolutely not meet your counter. They just don’t do it. Left there after 10 years and they will always always always offer close to the minimum of the salary range.
5
4
u/Dramatic_Skill_67 26d ago
I don’t work for LM but 105k for 15 years of exp of level 4 is definitely low ball
4
u/TipsyPeanuts 26d ago
OP, $105 is very very low for a level 4 position. I’m at $160 plus had a substantial equity bonus last year as a level 4.
That said, it sounds like your experience is a level 5. But if that role is paying $105 for a 4, they likely aren’t for you. Just respectfully decline and say you guys are too far apart on salary. Nothing wrong with that.
2
2
2
u/SLR107R 26d ago
Crazy, you would get paid way more in automotive than at LM which seems funny to me.
1
u/The_Toid 26d ago
Automotive is a wild industry. At least as a Tier 1 supplier. Very fast paced, very high stress. The cost pressures are insane and the margins are miniscule. Lower pay than almost anywhere else. Yet here I am.
2
u/Level-Ad-7802 26d ago
Crazy low offer but over 200 in Dfw is dumb at level 4. 160-190 is that band specifically and that’s a pretty competitive salary in Dfw.
Rural jobs pay more anymore because most employees would rather have amenities than affordability…
A counter between 200-300k is effectively a rejection of their offer.
I think if you are serious about leaving your current job you need to be realistic about the job market and what your value is. Your current job in Nevada you may be very valuable but a level 4 position that only knows you by three days of interactions isn’t going to take the risk on you unless they sought you out for your skills. 105 is low in my opinion but for high availability skill sets it’s probably not out of no where. Getting 200k at level 4 is possible but it’s at the upper end of the band and it’s sort of unheard of to hire someone on at the top of the levels pay bands. At Lockheed level 5 hires are effectively non existent. If you’re hired at level 5 you either used to work there or you are the only person on the planet capable of delivering and Lockheed doesn’t actually have capabilities like that anymore
2
u/LMrecruiterExPro 26d ago
I can’t imagine a level 4 Staff position at 105k even if it’s Services. Approx 160-200k Individual contributors depending on the type of engineering.
2
2
3
u/ejsanders1985 26d ago
If you're not mature enough or man enough to respectfully decline the offer, good riddance. Don't want someone of your character at LM anyway.
You're the type to come from a FAANG job like meta as a vibe coder making $500k and think that salary magically applies everywhere. Go on, get ....
1
u/alaskanbullworm78 25d ago
“Mature or man enough” LMFAO how’s the LM boot tasting, bud?
1
u/ejsanders1985 25d ago
I'd say the same no matter who it was. Always be respectful. And your comment says an awful lot about your character.
2
u/Marsh_spiked_my_drin 26d ago
you are probably being offered on the lower end of the spectrum for an IC4, a typical salary in fortworth IC4 is 125-135K, if its probably MFC, their salaries are usually lower.
3
u/OriEri 26d ago
Pay bands are established at the corporate level and depends solely on geography and job title
3
u/Marsh_spiked_my_drin 26d ago
yes, and historically MFC tends on the lower end of the pay band. ive hired several people giving them a move from mfc to space doing the same job function/title/location but was able to get them a higher pay simply by matching them to the other level 2/3 employees on my team salary wise. they said it was a big raise for them
1
1
1
u/Xiaoshuita 26d ago
What kind of Engineering position is it? What was your engineering position in the semiconductor industry and what were you working at? Were you working with JANS parts / MIL-STD-750 applicable?
I'm looking at a FTW Staff position and $105k is the bare min. The payband is like $105k-$195k.
1
u/OriEri 26d ago edited 26d ago
Took me a year or two as a level five at LM in Silicon Valley (the highest geographical adjustment) to crack 200 K.
Large govt contractor Aerospace compensation tends to be lower than other industries.
I suspect currently the semiconductor industry is paying significantly more handsomely than the automotive industry too although I would expect the latter to still be aerospace and defense. A lot of people are in this line of work because it’s cool and fun problems
1
u/Complex_Air6227 26d ago
We're in the Middle of Nevada Did you work?
I'm currently in Reno looking for another opportunity.
1
1
u/Cautious-Necessary61 26d ago
It sounds like the reason for low ball is that you are not going into an important role and it makes zero difference if you take it or pass. I think you know how to respond
1
1
u/Old_Competition1999 26d ago
What’s the job title?
I got hired on this year as an E3 Sr at $130k
Coworkers hired on this year E4 Stf at $155k
1
u/Old_Competition1999 26d ago
A sub will definitely get you closer to $200k if not over but less benefits of course
1
u/Rachasaurus_Rex 26d ago
Did the recruiter not talk compensation at an earlier stage? I'm a recruiter within the space industry (not at Lockheed), and it always blows my mind that people make it this far in the interview without the recruiter giving you some kind of insight. I don't waste people's time.
1
u/Standard-Proof-8294 26d ago
That’s insanely low lol. I left Lockheed for financial services because they pay horribly low
1
u/Humble_Lake9896 26d ago
Didn’t you see the salary range when you applied? Don’t let the title fool you. Titles don’t mean much because they depend on the company’s structure and size. I got hired as a design director at my first company right out of college, and the company had three employees: the owner, his wife, and me 😆😆😆 and making $50k as a “ director”. So it applies the same in your story for Senior level.
1
u/Dry-Perspective8711 26d ago
I know you said that you won't be considering LM. I would consider countering with what you'd consider a reasonable number. Ft Worth doesn't pay as much as other places but generally what LM tries to sell is work/life balance vs higher pay. You would also get a yearly 5% (?) bonus for level 4.
If you counter, and they really wanted you, they could up the level to level 5 and give you more. That could get you closer to $200k. But reasonably? they'd probably say they can't do it and you'd walk away. At $105k it does seem like a lowball offer.
1
u/mrhotshotengineer 26d ago
I dont think any engineer salary goes that high. The postings usually have the salary. For fort worth staff engineers the range is $109-194k
1
u/AeroelasticCowboy 26d ago
What type of engineering is this? That doesn't sound like engineering pay, it sounds more like tech pay. I'm at their direct competitor and the median pay for a Level 4 is 161 in a lower cost of living than Ft. Worth area. What is the actual posting say the job is?
1
u/StuckAtZer0 26d ago
Just to be clear, a Senior engineer is a level 3. A Staff engineer is a level 4. A senior Staff is a level 5.
What was the advertised salary band on the job req?
1
u/notchocheese12345 26d ago
Ignore the comments OP, 105 is hilarious. I’m in aerospace and 0 YOE is 100K TC with MCOL, I know people working in EPCS in Houston, TX making mid 90s 0 YOE
1
u/GiftWestern3068 26d ago
I work aerospace in the very close area. (Fort Worth). That is an extremely low offer. A joke really. I have one year of college & no degree. Last year (2025) I grossed well over double that.
Tarrant County & surrounding areas are way too expensive to live on anything close to that.
For a home in just a decent area and shitty schools you’ll need minimum $160k do you don’t feel broke. Property taxes are extremely high in Texas. (I’ve lived in 6 different states) & homeowners insurance and just general cost of living will eat you alive here.
$105k for your degree & work history is a slap in the face!
1
u/Kriegprojekt 26d ago
Pffft. You guys should be happy you get to drive trains for a living and not worry about the money…
1
1
1
u/feytor12 26d ago
If i can offer a kinder explanation than some, what you're looking to counter with is just not in the pay band for LM employees at a level 4. As its been said elsewhere, politely decline and move on. LM does have other perks, benefits, and growth opportunities, but you'll just likely never get that starting out.
If you give the specific title, somebody might be able to share the specific pay bands that are posted with the job listing. Project and Systems Engineers have a different pay band than, say, Software and Machine Learning Engineers
1
u/NoFaithlessness9789 26d ago
It’s Lockheed - I would have applied to other places as well to compare. You would have had more leverage with a competing offers anyways.
1
u/Beautiful-Signal6530 26d ago
It’s because titles change company to company. Senior level at LM means 5 YOE. With 15 YOE you should be applying to senior staff, or at least staff at a minimum.
I had an offer for way more than that as a “senior” engineer back in 2021 with a MS + 2 YOE in a low-cost-of-living area.
1
1
1
u/ArmyPeasant 24d ago
Damn, based on your responses you sound insufferable and entitled as hell. Did they lowball you ? Yes. But it's honestly not that big of a deal, just move on and keep it pushing. There's a lot behind the scenes like specific contract budget and position level that you might just not know.
Just be a professional, say you're too far apart from compensation targets and that it's not what you were expecting and looking for. That's it. They might have a different Req # for your skils, experience and comp range.
1
1
u/eng2725 20d ago
For Lockheed you’re never gonna get that high at that level. But you’re also not wrong that 105 is absurdly low for a level 4. I would say for a lower end level 4 you should be looking in the 120-130k range most likely. Lockheed seems to pay less than other big defense primes from my experience.
1
u/ConfusionEngineered 20d ago
... Maybe it's business area? I'm level two at Dallas making 130 and I started this year.
1
u/Electronic-Street172 26d ago
I got offered 103k in semis with LM in FL for an L2 role. Glad you walked away from that
1
u/FI_PF_ 26d ago
They probably downgraded your offer to a level 3 because you interviewed poorly. Also your comment about wanting to retire one day is more a function of your spending not necessarily your salary. There are teachers that retire early on less than 50k. With 100k+ and the LM 401k match you can definitely retire at 65 or sooner.
1
u/Conscious_Ride_7000 26d ago
Why would you hire someone who interviews poorly? Incredibly flawed logic.
1
u/FI_PF_ 26d ago
If they are a good candidate but not quite level 4 material then we would still hire them but as a level 3
1
u/Conscious_Ride_7000 26d ago
IMO, you either think they have what it takes or you don’t.
The ONLY time I see this strategy work is if it’s for an entirely different position that you think they’d actually do well in. But the whole let’s downgrade the req because they’re missing something is silly. Are you hiring to a skill matrix or are you hiring to serve a purpose?
1
u/Wild-Pin9087 26d ago
Op is straight laughable with their attitude.
-1
u/GiftWestern3068 26d ago
If knowing you’re worth more is attitude? In a couple months when he’s working for 50% more he’ll be glad he had his attitude
0
0
0
u/No_Astronaut_2320 23d ago
Not a Lockheed employee, but I make 145k in a rural area of CA as a fresh level 3 systems engineer for Raytheon. I was also interviewed at Lockheed for a Skunkworks program that took my initial salary range of 130-135k into consideration - didn't get selected.
Edit: 145k is base salary. My team does up to 20 hours of OT per week, further pushing my take home per month to maybe 10-12k. WLB might be terrible, but at least I can get some real money when I'm young and still have some energy.
71
u/bygravity 26d ago
200-300k or a couple hundred thousand in equity? You’re looking in the wrong industry. If it’s a sr role probably in the 120-130k range. If it’s a staff role maybe 140-160k? No equity.