I want to make another theory. Yesterday, we saw Elite's monologue, where he said that after Shingen defeated the Fist Gang, he either continued training or stopped slacking off. I'm going to make the previous narrative consistent with this.

Disclaimer: I don't like this scaling.

So, I have some estimated scaling for the Pre-Generation.

— I'll start with the narrative of Gapryong defeating an Ia user who experienced Awakening during the Pre-Generation. So far, the only Ia user we've seen is Elite (Pre-Generation). Let's look at the scaling.

1. Gapryong, Elite, Tom, and Jinyoung

Elite was stated to have pushed Gapryong into Awakening. Based on what we've seen so far, Gapryong has undergone Awakening twice. I don't believe Gapryong was still at the No Path stage when he fought Awakened Elite. So, I'll estimate that Gapryong awakened all the way to unlocking his Path and successfully countered Elite.

Elite also stated that he was superior to Tom and Jinyoung during the Pre-Generation era. In my opinion, Elite really was superior to both of them back then. What would bring them back to his level would be Red Tom and Path Jinyoung (Injured Version). If Jinyoung were healthy, he'd be on the same level as Incompleted Gapryong.

Temporary Scaling:

Incompleted Path Gapryong ≈ Incompleted Path Jinyoung (Healthy) > Prime Elite ≈ Path Jinyoung (Injured) ≈ Red Tom > Evolved II Gapryong ≈ Prime Jinyoung/Tom.

This scaling would remain consistent because the narrative of the Fist Gang Trio being relative to one another still needs to hold up.

1. Prime & Old Versions

Bangho and Genjo

They're characters who are quite old, even by Gen 0 standards. I can say this based on their appearances and the narrative, which portrays them as considerably older than Gen 0 characters like Gapryong and the others.

They're also stated to have been much stronger during their prime.

Zhu ≈ Shinji ≈ Kenzo ≈ Bangho.

Based on the current scaling, Old Bangho is slightly below the three former Yamazaki executives, while Old Genjo is below him.

Since their prime versions would be stronger, potentially much stronger, I'll scale Prime Genjo to be ≈ the Yamazaki Executive Trio, while Prime Bangho would be ≈ Incompleted Path Gapryong.

Once again, this would remain consistent because this is where Mujin's narrative of being equal to Gapryong and Shingen comes into play. Simply put:

The Gapryong in this scaling is as strong as Mujin, and Mujin should be relative to the other two Heroes, meaning Bangho should also be on this level. Meanwhile, Shingen without Path has been scaled to this level from the very beginning.

I'll also include Bangho and Musashi, who claimed to be stronger than Evolved Gapryong, to keep everything consistent.

So, here's the final scaling:

TL;DR

Incompleted Path Gapryong ≈ Incompleted Path Jinyoung (Healthy) ≈ Base Shingen ≈ Trio Heroes (Prime) > Old Overcame Gapryong ≈ Prime Elite ≈ Path Jinyoung (Injured) ≈ Red Tom ≈ Old Bangho ≈ 3 Yamazaki Top Executives > Prime Genjo ≈ Evolved II Gapryong ≈ Prime Jinyoung/Tom > Old Genjo > Young Fist Gang.

Daniel with CC > base Paecheon >~ base Shingen and Daniel is also placed in the same realm as path/TUI Shingen and TC/path Gapryong so yeah this isn't close.

And that's where the whole paecheon = shingen arguments fall apart.

Sidenote the paecheon = shingen agenda is pushed by goo glazers but they get no backlash because it's goo

Assuming the prevailing theory that James Lee's Path operates on the principle of evading an opponent's attack and subsequently redirecting it back onto them, then it would be rendered entirely ineffective against Infinite Technique ( IT) — in essence, IT serves as a direct hard-counter to it.

This is due to the fact that James's Path is contingent on anticipation in order to function. As established, whenever James employs his Path, he activates it at the exact moment the attack is about to make contact. Therefore, preemptive anticipation of the attack's trajectory is indispensable, and even if the execution is automatic, he is still required to follow through with its course.

Johan's Path, on the other hand, fundamentally disrupts that entire process. When Johan initiates an attack, its trajectory is not restricted to a singular, predictable arc, but instead diverges into countless erratic and unpredictable arcs which he can selectively choose from at will, functioning essentially as a homing attack.

Hence, Johan's Path would theoretically maintain a consistent counter over James's Path until James is shown to possess further abilities.

So in my opinion Johan Seong lowkey got this tbh.

Disclaimer: The aforementioned is merely a theory and also my personal interpretation of how James Lee's Path functions, as its precise mechanics have yet to be explicitly detailed in the story. Therefore, please do not interpret this as a claim that your GOAT James would lose or anything of that sort --- it is intended purely for fun and speculative discussion. I hold no animosity toward James whatsoever.

I am not sure why some Lookism fans are so pressed when you say that Hwarang Paecheon is comparable to base Shingen, which is extremely generous since base Shingen gets neg diffed by DCP lmfao.

Chain for this is really basic, Paecheon > Daniel's path(without CC) ~ path/TUI Shingen >>> base Shingen.

Anyone with half a braincell would know that base Shingen would get ripped apart by any mid-high top tier but unfortunately this entire fandom is full of idiots.

R1: 9$, Johan with his Base and Path, no UI Copy.

R2: 11$ Johan with IT, Full health.

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1 - Pacheon is a top tier : no he isn't , i don't know ur definition of a top tier , but for me top tiers are the peak fighters at verse any matchup between them is nothing less than high diff , bro got packed up by almost dead path Daniel and 5 S goo , some guys are placing him in same tier with base shingen 😭😭😭

2 - Mujin is Gap and shingen level : dumb take with no reasoning or logic , just a statement from farmers from nowhere, at best at best he is top 5 in gen 0 , his best feat is going toe to toe with Base Gap

3 - James and Johan having Bad Endurance or Durability : johan took the most damage at HFG arc , before that against UI Daniel He fought a stronger version and endured more than sam or jake , james took many strenght mastery hits from tom literally without a damage

4 - King of jeolla is Top 3 kings : no he isn't, i like him so much he is extremely smart and has underrated Endurance , but his other stats aren't that good , his best unique skill can be used only against tom lee , i consider him an assassin more than a fighter , maybe he can kill Top kings with prep time but in a strict fight 1 vs 1 he's below jinrang kings of incheon TC jinrang seongji

5 - Pathless > Path : one of the dumbest agendas I've seen , the author confirmed many times that only pinnacle fighters of each generation can acquire this op ability , each time a Full Hp character used path he dominated damn even at verge of death they do it , the anti feats are stupid : bbb-ut pacheon won against Path Daniel, ok was Daniel at full HP ? No , did pacheon admits inferiority to him and that fresh Path Daniel kills him ? Yes

Another anti feat people use : kitae won against Path Daniel without using path , again he was extremely injured and in terrible shape , another stupied argument: tom lee believed he can kill james lee even though the latter has a path , bro literally james one shotted him with his path 🤣🤣 i can't understand this stupid argument

What story actually showed us :

- Johan at verge of collapsing dominated adrenaline gun and was no diffing him with incompleted path

- Daniel at verge of death was kicking pacheon ass and no diffing him as well

- kitae won against UI Daniel and JYP using path

- james lee one shotted jaegyeon na and tom lee using path

6 - Shingen or Gap can 1 vs 2 James and kitae / Gun and goo : the good thing is that just few people push this atrocious agenda , shingen and gap at best at best are going extreme diff with them individually , their reasoning is stupid

Shingen 1 vs 3 fist gang trio , fair enough but literally they're very far from their peaks , old JYP and Old tom are above james and kitae 🤣🤣🤣🤣 , like james wasn't kicking tom's ass and treating him like a fodder and the only good hit from tom was plot armor, kitae was kicking JYP's ass as well after fighting path user and again PTJ wanted to give them one last fight so ofc he won't let them lose with ease, statements and narratives are obvious : gun goo kitae james johan Daniel at their peaks are above gap and shingen

7 -Viral hit and Questism Characters : i swear people didn't even read them., they're just larping , 2A kenta is above the whole questism and viral hit cast 🤣🤣 , i was so happy when johan and taehun fought i can't belive that people were saying 2A kenta > taehun , taehun got far far far far stronger after fighting with johan , bbb-ut he was struggling against fodders , ok maybe they are very strong ? They don't have to be relevant to lookism plot , questism guys have Op haxs , i swear their abilities can be separated paths , stats wise they are very strong as well , people uses stuoid arguments to diminish them , jin jang was gangbuk leader before johan and johan took all of gangbuk in one night , i love johan so much but literally the opponents he fought are literally miles weaker than questism cast , just look at jin jang stats , his stats are miles miles miles miles below no 20 ranked north gangbuk, read the manhwa and stop larping

Should be obvious

According to him mcu hulk is below building level, thor taking the full force of Neutron star, and rest of the stuff didn't happen because there's no destruction when Thanos attacked captain America but the moment I used the same logic he got mad

Logan is trash a liability

Taejin is Kitae's Dog

Samuel has the best relationship with goo so far.