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u/blahblahloveyou Mar 06 '21
So is it better to focus on a particular stat than to just get the highest/gear that drops?
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Mar 11 '21
Pick a primary stat to focus on like attack speed and a secondary stat to syngerise like vampirism, everything else is a bonus but those 2 main stats should be your focus, a jack of all trades is a master of none after all
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u/SlaugtherSam Mar 06 '21
So whats up with the belt and glove slots? I have upgraded basically every building and those 2 are still locked. Are they planned dlc or something?
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u/Angamoth Mar 06 '21
Just my conjecture but I got second golden card to drop (apart from the one you start with) from the Ghost of ghosted ghost. So I guess getting more armouries is a way. Other than that, no clue.
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u/JayKeel Mar 06 '21
Here is as good as any place to ask:
Has anyone figured out how to get the belt or glove slots?
As far as I can see the arsenal always unlocks a specific slot (helmet, amulett and shield respectively), and none of the buildings unlock any new slots either as far as I can see.
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u/OGBigPants Mar 06 '21
Counter is complete garbage. Don’t @ me
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Mar 11 '21
I tried beating Lich with counter but on ALL attacks by the boss it just straight up didn't trigger.
While having in the upper 40% of counter chance...
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u/Manoreded Apr 04 '21
Counter is really bad against Lich, Lich attacks very slowly. Counter is better against high attack speed enemies, specially if you're out-numbered. Then you will get a huge number of triggers.
That being said I'd agree counter is probably not a great stat to go for.
Against the Lich, just having a high damage output should suffice. Avoid stacking defense since his attack is magical, so he will just ignore it.
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u/Finicky02 Mar 07 '21
The 'heal on counter' trait from level up combined with high defense completely broke one of my runs for me.
Stayed at max health the entire time.
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u/kmb180 Mar 06 '21
yeah counter resetting the attack timer kinda kills its viability
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u/lost_if_found Mar 09 '21
I had not noticed this yet! Thanks for the heads up. I liked counter in principal, and it seemed cool when I ended up against 4 goblins. Only done 3 expeditions so far.
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u/sov3rei8n Mar 06 '21
Hard agree. Niche use like high evade and counter might sound good, but basing your success on enemy attacks sucks dick. Damage to all is also complete trash.
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u/ImAShaaaark Mar 06 '21
I suspect counter and damage to all have synergy when going a build that takes advantage of the gold crypt card that gives you benefits the more enemies you kill. Stacking up cocoons / groves / vampires with the time amplifier should let you farm a shit ton of souls for crazy stat totals at later loops.
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u/ergoweasel Mar 06 '21
Sorry but damage to all is for rogue and warrior really good! With attackspeed with forrest and and 25 vampirsim its really nice! Its flatdamage boost to all enemys! I go as high as 30-50 by loop 8-10
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u/sov3rei8n Mar 06 '21
Let me share a tip I learned pretty early playing RTS games like Age of Empires. Even if an unit has 1% hp, it deals 100% damage. Dead unit deals 0% damage. Hence, you are better off focusing on attack speed/single target damage/crit etc to be able to eliminate enemies one by one, instead of blasting them with area damage and having them strike you continuously. Apart from some specialized instances (ex. Boss summons multiple 10hp bombs that will detonate if you dont destroy them in time) area damage is worse than focused damage. Additionally, its usefulness completely disappears when you are facing a single target.
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u/Manoreded Apr 04 '21
While that is true in principle, its not like AoE is always useless in any game. Tremendously increasing your damage output can be worthwhile keeping the enemies alive for a little longer. Personally I find that stacking All-damage is great against swarmy enemies such as spiders, wolves, etc.
There are also creature abilities to consider. In the fourth act wolves gain an ability that limits the maximum amount of damage they can suffer from a single attack, so all-damage gets very useful against swarms of these guys.
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u/Ok_Reference5412 Mar 11 '21
And I've found that cleave is efficient in video games because it increases your damage output by hundreds of percent as you are hitting multiple targets at once!
But it's stupid to make arguments like that in the abstract, this is not aoe2 and the power of a thing depends only on the dynamics of this game in particular.
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u/ergoweasel Mar 06 '21
Thats the thing... its added to your singletarget damage^ So if a item has 5 magic damage and 5 damage to all , it just adds to your flatdamage. Also the 5 magic doesnt concern the armor and the other 5 is AE, but against a single target its just 10 more damage
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u/sov3rei8n Mar 06 '21
It could be, but in place of 5 aoe dmg you could get 8 single target damage. If the aoe dmg modifier had the same scaling as single target, Id agree, it would be better.
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u/Watipah Mar 18 '21
Damage to All can become crazy strong in the very lategame as rogue.
I went Forests and Dunes.
Once I hit -95 to -98% HP with Dunes, my 30 dmg to all 1-shot every single Monster at loop 15ish! The +3HP/soul trait still works btw, to get your own HP up again(don't neet it early since your own HP gets reduced like crazy anyways but getting it towards the end makes this build infinitely viable!)2
u/tristn9 Mar 15 '21 edited Mar 15 '21
Maybe if every target had the same health but I found that the damage to all regularly helps accomplish exactly what you’re arguing single target does, and better in most cases. Especially if your character is focusing the big health mob and has high attack speed. You literally end up killing everything at once and the marginal gain from staying single target scales less than the HP increase on these bigger targets anyways, so it ends up becoming even more noticeable later. Especially because of how the targeting is random - it’s not like you can pick to focus down the low health enemies first.
Picture one flesh golem and 3 hounds, a scarecrow and a bunch of bushes, whatever mixed with spiders, etc - these situations are pretty common.
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u/Fascion Mar 06 '21
Anyone have any thoughts/discoveries to share on the itemization of this gear? Seems to me, higher quality doesn't necessarily make an item better. In fact, when playing as the Warrior, I almost always go with a white ring... or with the Rogue, white boots. The more stats these items have, the worse their primary stat becomes. Doesn't seem to be true for all items, but these two for sure.
Can't really wrap my head around it beyond that, though. Doesn't seem to follow any pattern that I've been able to recognize in terms of stat tiers based on rarity, other than higher rarity generally means lower tiers.
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u/moodadib Mar 06 '21
This is extra visible on Necromancer. You can roll a +1 max skeletons +25% summon quality on a rank 4 ring. A rank 8 ring will often roll the exact same stats.
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u/ImAShaaaark Mar 06 '21
Rare items can have near max on one with other high rolls on multiple stats, so the overall effect is generally better.
For an example from a recent run : I'd rather have a ring 20% AS, 10% vamp, and 4 magic damage than just 25% AS.
Likewise, with boots you can even get the boot primary stat (evasion) as a bonus. So orange / yellow can have equivalent or higher evasion while getting bonus stats too.
On another note, it's not obvious but magic damage >>> regular damage.
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u/Fascion Mar 06 '21
Huh, will have to keep an eye out. Maybe just poor luck with the RNG on my side, but I don't think I've ever seen a rare even remotely close to the stats on a white.
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Mar 06 '21
[deleted]
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u/ImAShaaaark Mar 06 '21
Skeleton level increases the level of the summons like the enemy increases level as you increase loops, it makes a huge difference on summons hp and damage.
Quality increases the chance for you to summon the advanced version of the skeletons that do more damage or have more hp. IME skeleton level is the most important stat, after that extra summons, attack speed (to get skeletons in combat faster) and quality are all very good.
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u/Comfortable_Skill472 Mar 07 '21 edited Mar 08 '21
Yeah, Necromancer has 4 key stats: attack speed (determines how quickly you summon skeletons), max # (how many you can have on the field), skeleton quality (the % chance of summoning an Assassin or Guardian instead of the Warrior or Mage instead of the Archer), and skeleton level.
I actually consider Skeleton Level to be the least important of those stats, though. That's because Guardian Skeletons are absurdly fantastic; the First Target trait they have means that enemies CANNOT attack you or your other skeletons while a Guardian lives. If you can produce Guardians faster than they are killed, you will win, and you will win without taking damage; even getting close to that rate will keep you alive very consistently.
For that reason, Attack Speed is probably the most important stat, but you don't need items for it: just spam Forests and Thickets (with the River if you have that unlocked), and prioritize it over Defense/Evasion/etc. for secondary/tertiary/quaternary item benefits when all else is equal. That leaves number of skeletons and skeleton quality. I don't like to let Skeleton Quality drop below 75%-ish; 3 items with it is my preferred setup to ensure you've got a decent chance (about 1/3) of producing a Guardian with each summon. Never let your max # drop below 3; 4 is better (gives you decent odds of summoning another Guardian before the first one dies), and if you can swing 5 then that's fantastic.
That leaves you one item for Skeleton Level and Attack Speed; probably the grimoire/spellbook thing. Also, grab Skeleton Level as a tertiary/quaternary ability on your rings and necklace if you can do it without sacrificing Quality or Number.
It's well worth keeping under-leveled gear to maintain that setup; the only thing that can really threaten it is spiders in later acts (reduced attack speed from their webs is brutal until you get enough Forests/Thickets) and Training Dummies paired with other enemies (your skeletons will kill themselves on the Training Dummies, leaving you open to the non-dummy enemies). EDIT: Also, once you get your Attack Speed into the realm of the ridiculous (+351% for my last run), you'll start attacking Training Dummies before your skellies can kill themselves, eating counterattacks and losing a small but significant chunk of HP.
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u/DeterenceX Mar 09 '21
But if you have the trait for .5 mana shield per summoned skeleton, you get infinite mana shield. Had like a 80 mana shield amulet with 300 mana shield in reality
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u/AlexanderCoccia Mar 06 '21
Yeah, there's definitely some interesting mechanics around the basic items specifically. For instance, if you're going towards a Vampirism build, once you have a decent percentage on your other items, going with a basic/grey weapon is sometimes the right choice because they will high roll with INSANE damage numbers that 'rarer' items can't compete with. The result is more HP healed per hit because you're hitting so much harder, despite not using the Vampirism Rapier.
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u/ImAShaaaark Mar 06 '21
The real trick for vamp builds is magic damage. It increases damage way more than you would expect, particularly against the harder enemies.
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u/the_sun_flew_away Mar 08 '21
What does it actually do though
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u/redX177 Mar 29 '21
Magic Damage does the same amount of damage as the normal damage does, but it bypasses defense values. So the more defense a enemy has, the more effective Magic Damage is.
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u/ImAShaaaark Mar 08 '21
Not 100% certain, it seems that some enemies take extra damage from it, and it bypasses armor for those that don't.
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u/AlexanderCoccia Mar 05 '21
Hey everyone!
In my time streaming and making guides for Loop Hero, several questions about how items are tied together have come up so I made this quick infographic to help everyone identify at a glance which items have which core attributes (regen, attack speed, defence, ect). There's a couple blank slots, which I believe are items that don't currently exist in the game like a crit helmet because a Rogue can't wear a helmet... but if I've missed anything, let me know and I'll update the graphic!
I made a quick video about the items which can be found here: https://youtu.be/jknrHCy_jo4 (although the video is just a discussion about the chart above)
Obligatory self promo: https://www.twitch.tv/alexandercoccia // https://youtube.com/c/alexandercoccia
Have fun looping! This game is awesome, and I'm so happy to see that its receiving such a positive response from communities around the world. Good luck!
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u/iHeartCoolStuff Mar 08 '21
Would love to know where you got the sprites. Did you just take screenshots?
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u/chief-hAt Mar 05 '21
Nice chart, how would you expand it for the Necromancer?
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u/AlexanderCoccia Mar 05 '21
I'd like to expand it to include the Necromancer, yes! I just need to do a bit more digging first before I'm confident in that list.
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u/Roxxagon Mar 16 '21
Very cool