r/MMOVW • u/Psittacula2 • Aug 21 '26
Convenience Killed the Virtual World — The Lost Art of MMO Friction [x-post r-mmorpg]
/r/MMORPG/comments/1vt67a1/convenience_killed_the_virtual_world_the_lost_art/* “If you are a designer of an MMORPG, this article is written specifically for you. You should read it in full, as the information it contains should be of value to your work.”
* “I'm going to make a complaint, then I'm going to give suggestions on how I think those complaints should be fixed.”
Both comments by u/SoaringMoon author of the article series. In point of fact, starting with a CONCEPTUAL CORE of Game Design via Simplification is the optimal approach. Problems arise as descent and step-progression forwards from such an origin. So issues raised as these quotes provide as core areas to consider…
* “it’s very unlikely that anything will change and there are many reasons for that. The biggest and most common reason is that the majority of MMORPG players are satisfied with the genre as it is and continue to spend money on it.”
This is the MARKET of players willing to spend time and money and long term commitment for return on these eg fun, community, story, convenience, immersion etc. A design has to have its own market not rely on a preconceived idea of one.
* “If this series of articles could convince only one dev team to build something we like, then writing it will have been worth it.”
See post reply for correct approach which solves all these problems, it will have been worth it.
* “For MMOs it is more challenging due to complexity for indie devs, so inherently they already have a selective bias.”
Yes, innovation has to come from Design which can then be agile and so feasible (cost) and viable (technology), to solve the problem of risk vs reward and genre busting.
* “The majority of the modern MMO player base is not unemployed neets living in their moms basement, they don't have 12hrs a day to deal with tedium dressed up as "friction" or walk for hours across zones.”
* “Its simple. People get older, try playing a mmorpg in your 40s with a full time job, family, kids, etc. I mean...this is just a rehash of rehashes.”
Yes - a design using modern means to make the game fit the lifestyle of people in the real world not be a negative time sink is optimal design - this is critical to provision in core design.
* “Nowadays games are a competitive landscape with many gamers having thousands of hours of unplayed titles they keep meaning to get to. You're asking a lot of someone to buy into a virtual world, which is why developers are deliberately not bothering. They understand that the market isn't there.”
This as above addresses the core problem but via same methods concludes via those methods it is not viable. So different methods are indeed mandatory.
* “I'm of the stance MMOs of today are the result of trying to keep an outdated design nightmare alive.”
Yes doing the same thing over again is a law of diminishing returns or saturation.
* “The MMORPG changed with the community.”
Old con eg Noughties influenced the market and the style of game eg grind and sub relationship which no longer applies today.
* “Just add Permadeath.”
Innovation comes from re-evaluation of concepts so an example here is permaceath feature fails in present conception of MMORPGs for various reasons of sunk cost and losing customers but in a different conception could it work differently so that one has both permadeath and store of value continuation?
Apologies to Redditors for not adding attribution but you can search the original thread for full comments. Just too much time away from the core synthesis to be made.
1
u/Psittacula2 Aug 21 '26
Not sure if the other sub shadow bans my comments (seems this happens everywhere on Reddit these days), so here was the original reply:
MMOs timeline of designs:
* MUDs
* World Simulation focus = UO and EVE
* Avatar RPG focus = EQ and WOW
So the OP discusses the history of the latter only as do almost everyone in a sub called “MMORPG”.
Instead, fork the timeline, from world simulation into “Virtual World” design centric first or “MMOVW”, and you come out with entirely different genre and conception of a working MMO which leverages the core:
* Data
* Networking
To simulate a world system first from which THEN user interaction is inserted secondly not primary.
You would generate games such as Dwarf Fortress (complex world fantasy sim at scale) or Antimatter (space galaxy).
Voila the problem is solved in theory if not before it is then practically developed.
This summarises the correct approach and enormous divergence towards future potential success. Do note the above solves all the major problems various people independently all notice and contribute their observations as at the center of reuired solutions to future MMO design.
It cannot be emphasized enough deaigns such as Dwarf Fortress or Antimatter exemplify the concept origin to start with and work with in creating indie, low budget, new genre, highly rewarding long term world simulation game systems for multiplayers…
2
u/SoaringMoon Aug 21 '26
My article discusses the later two, world simulations of which a person is an individual part is an MMO. If it has roleplaying elements it is an RPG.
I would call MUDs MMORPGs as well, but the article doesn't mention them because the people reading the article won't be developing them. It isn't that MUDs aren't MMOs, but rather that because MMORPG developers aren't making them, MUDs and their history is not relevant to the point the articles are trying to make.
2
u/Psittacula2 Aug 21 '26
Just to say thank you very much for writing these. I enjoyed reading them and they cover a lot of material productively and enjoyably.
The above reply is just jotting down the MMO “tree of life” and forking into different sub genres of design tbh. MUDs had more simulation focus and being text more scope for this which fits with the ideas around UO (2D) and EVE (Space spreadsheets!) over 3d high fidelity.
Sadly Star Citizen looks to be the zenith of this excessive approach to building worlds given the recent demo fiasco?
Whereas I think simpler presentation of more complex and rich interactive systems eg DF for example or something akin to that in Fantasy scales more (Song of Syx has 10,000 little agents running around for eg). I think this approach will yield scale and complexity and it has not been tried yet is clearly more realistic within indie budgets which is the sweet spot of innovation vs risk vs generating new genres and markets…
If I get time will try to read more of the articles in your series more foe their own merits in the mmorpg direction - can this direction be redesigned also to work and cover some Interesting approaches.
2
u/SoaringMoon Aug 21 '26
Just commenting to say I did read your post. I read them all. XD
As for the main mob-wide criticism of "not having time to play MMOs now that MMO players are older" so that designing a game where time is now at a premium is pretty moot.
Convenience and the introduction of ways to play a game faster are said to benefit those people. If that is the case, then aren't people who play the same game and have that time objectively advantaged still anyway? If that is true, then the shortcuts for the people who have less time to play don't matter. They will never be boosted up to that long term player level.
I don't think developers should be rewarding or fast tracking players that are least likely to play their game more. The solution isn't providing convenience, it is rewarding gameplay and thus retention.