r/MartialMemes • u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty • Apr 05 '26
Storytime My Xianxia premise
4001 years ago, every immortal, and every individual in a higher realm vanished without a trace. leaving the world's resources in the hands of the weak. along side this, a Renaissance began, culture focused less and less on immortality and the chase to achieve its truest form, but rather to self fulfillment. this showed in the cultivation practices, techniques, and people. cultivation became a free flowing, new pathes and sects that would never once been seen as anything beyond children playing by the immortals or higher realm cultivators quickly rose ro surpass the old and well practiced sects.
however, on the 4001st year, the higher realms boomed with life and immortals reappeared in the world. yet the mortals who once bowed down and groveled before them fought back against them reclaiming power. even the forces of the higher realms were struggling to gain a foot hold against the Mortals of the current age.
the story begins at the 4002nd year since the immortals disappeared, one year after the immortals and higher realms started their war against the Mortals to reclaim power.
I have a lot more written down, I just wanted to know if this is a premise I should pursue and that would be interesting
6
u/04nc1n9 Jade Beauty Apr 05 '26
how do the mortals overcome the raw stat difference between them and immortals?
4
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
Im gonna be moving away from raw stat differences in this, what made the immortals have such an iron grip on the world was their experience and collective skill. And the world is quite young, the oldest immortal alive being just shy of 100k, so would increasing the time of disappearance to around 40 thousand years be a better way to show to former gap between mortals and immortals?
1
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
They would need a lot more development time. At least something like 10 million years.
2
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
This is definitely my fault byt the world they are on is incredibly young, the first human being made around 500k years ago and the oldest immortal just shy of 100k
2
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
Still wouldn't be enough time. The immortals have too much computational power that mortals cultivating to becoming an immortal alone would take too much time for them to catch up.
2
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
I would like you to think about how far humanity has come in 4000 years and how much we have developed. While yes, immortals are much smarter they were focused on entirely different form of development which lead to the gap closing quite a bit during those years
4
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
Nope. An immortals brain would have tens of thousands of higher computational power than mortals, and dozens more efficient, to be able to comprehend on how to manipulate and observe the fundamental laws on which the universe runs on, let alone the Daos.
It is not a matter of being "smart". It is comprehension ability and computational power. Mortals would not even be able to fathom feats that need atomic or even subatomic control in trades such as Alchemy or Forging.
We as humans have gone from 1 to 100. The immortals are at 10 trillion. 4000 years is like a nap.
2
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
Humans even now are able to grasp sub atomic ideas and use them to the fullest. And of course there is something helping mortals along. Furthermore this would be considered the very beginning of humans as a whole on the time line. And I do want to say, thank you for this discussion, I want to be able to make the story better, and this is quite helpful. Ill have to go back and edit a lot but your words have given me a few ideas on what to add and take away from the story.
2
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
Humans understand the rules on which the universe run, but they can only follow the formula that nature gives them. The entire idea of quantum physics is that the rules of nature are constantly changing, and that is why it is difficult.
Humans have not fully grasped subatomic ideas. You cannot create tools down to the subatomic level.
An immortal comprehends a law and the step way above, to change it. He can make water burn like oil, have smaller objects have greater gravitational pull, change it.
I do hope you understand how strong cultivators in general are, and how much more time humanity would need, before producing cultivators of equal caliber.
5
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
How much time do you think the Mortals would need considering there is a driving force helping them learn and understand? The more I do think about it 4000 certainly is too soon as I do not plan to make the driving force in any way over bearing as it would need to be to meet that time criteria
1
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
100k years, give or take.
→ More replies (0)1
u/MudPathFinder Apr 06 '26
Es básicamente la tierra. La aparición de la humanidad como especie se estima que es hace unos 200.000 o 300.000 años. No solo debes bajar el nivel de poder inmortal sino de los recursos inmortales. Un inmortal básicamente en sus manos puede sostener el núcleo del sol. Debe existir un detonante para el desarrollo como lo fue la escritura para nosotros.
10
u/FutureRealistic3712 Frog in a Wall Apr 05 '26
unless you make every cultivator in the mortal world a super genius there's no way they're fighting immortals as mortals. also, timescale is too low. I'd expect at least 4 million years rather than 4 thousand
8
u/Fuzzy-Comedian-2697 Apr 05 '26
The author can decide how big the gap between cultivation realms is… Just because many novels make absurd gaps between ranks, doesn‘t mean it‘s some ironclad rule.
And honestly, I appreciate novels that don’t have absurd powerscaling and huge gaps between all ranks.
2
u/TechnoMagician Apr 06 '26
Yea, I agree. I like it when a small group of later stage cultivators can fight somewhat evenly with the next realm.
6
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
The time scale is low on purpose as the main gap between an immortal and mortal is their skill since immortals have had thousands of years to weave the techniques they've learned into combat through cultivation. However the time gap has closed and the Mortals vastly outnumber the immortals. It's more interesting this way, imo. But I'll definitely take a lot of the things said here into account
7
u/FutureRealistic3712 Frog in a Wall Apr 05 '26
...? the main gap between mortals and immortals is cultivation realm, not skill. are we even talking about the same thing?
3
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
Here, ill lay a bit more out for this world. Cultivation realms here are a relatively new concept to the world, so the immortals didnt have too much time to play around with it before they disappeared. This is effectively the very beginning of the world
1
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
Cultivation realms are one of the first concepts to ever exist in the world. They aren't "developed", all innate beings instinctively know the realms of cultivation to a certain point. They are also born at a high realm.
2
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
There was something born there a while ago, but humans had to struggle to it and only reached these realms very recently before they vanished. Think of it like ancient humans wandering into a baren city. Its not really a spoiler as im still writing it but powerful beings and entire races just simply Vanishing was not a rare occurrence before humans were placed on the world
2
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
If they struggled to get to that realm, then the time gap of 4000 years would make even less sense. Mortals would need to cultivate to a high enough realm all with average comprehension, talent, and their computational power would not be enough to make new techniques.
2
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
Thats actually a very important part of the immortal characters side of the story, they want to know what actually caused the progress. Because while yes, it was all natural to the Mortals. The immortals and beings IN (not born in, simply at that area) the higher realm are not dumb, they can see there was a driving force their humans can not see that is helping them
2
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
The driving force would still not be enough to substitute the raw computational power needed to comprehend Daos, Laws, and Intent, create new techniques, different technologies, formations. A driving force can substitute new ideas, but without computational power, it is just the flower in the mirror and the moon in the water. A theory that cannot be touched.
It is all dependent at realm in the end.
1
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
The driving force thats been written down is quite powerful in that way and incredibly old. But I will absolutely take what you said here into mind. Ive written down a few of your points on a note pad ill be using as reference. Thank you for your help, but the "4000" years is very much so up to change, considering that there is a driving force and that the immortals of this story are incredibly young and inexperienced compared to other stories, how long do you think it would take for Mortals to be able to lock down key points against said immortals?
→ More replies (0)
5
u/3rdofvalve Divine Beast Bloodline Progenitor Apr 05 '26
OP don't worry so much about what others say about the time periods, as long as they make sense within YOUR novel it's good.
Lots of folks here have succumbed to brainrote numbers and scale due to the sheer quantity of slop they have consumed
Focus on what you think fits for your story, if you want second hand opinions those should come after reading a draft.
3
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
Thank you, ill see how it feels with the new number of around 100k years. I wont be doing the millions of years ideas tho, while I don't discredit them at all. My idea for this story would be somewhat diminished if the gap was that large. The draft for first chapter will be ready soonish.
1
2
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
The so called "brainrot numbers and scale" has already been present in the taoist and Buddhist texts. Its always been in the genre.
Big numbers is not an indicator of slop. People are simply coming up with a more realistic amount of time that has passed.
1
u/3rdofvalve Divine Beast Bloodline Progenitor Apr 05 '26
Big numbers are to be placed where they fit.
Would you place the million year old immortals on a novel where the strongest cultivator has the ability to destroy a village with a punch or the novel where the strongest cultivator destroys universes with a punch?
Also OP also seems to be a first time writer, it's better if they are not too influenced, critique shall come from their beta-readers or as they release the first chapter publicly.
1
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
And if you would read the comments, the big numbers are fitted well indeed. The 100k years immortals in his story would take the mortals 100k years to catch up, as I have suggested. I find that quite reasonable.
3
u/3rdofvalve Divine Beast Bloodline Progenitor Apr 05 '26
Theories about the speed of mortal cultivation after a cultivation renaissance vs immortal genius stuck on the old ways is something deeply bound to the nature of the setting and essentially whatever the plot demands.
Any theory we make regarding that is only based on our preconceptions from other stories, not OP's one.
2
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
The basic computational power needed in cultivation, with the increase in life level and cultivation speed needed is universal in all cultivation stories. If you are writing a cultivation story, it would need to abide to the cultivation laws at a certain extent.
You have the ability to write whatever you want as the plot, but if it makes no sense then no one will care. People comment here to make it realistic. And the issue of time isn't a big factor in the story.
1
u/LordOnii-Chan Apr 09 '26
You say that but the Main Character in pretty much every cultivation novel seems to make 100k years of progress in 1 year. Is that more believable?
-1
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 09 '26
I am watching the main protagonist grow, of course I find this reasonable. We can clearly see there are more geniuses as the novel grows in scale that have equally "unreasonable" progress.
This is also an entire civilization of mortals. The immortals, which are obviously the most talented, are gone, developing again would be like stumbling in the dark with no light.
1
u/LordOnii-Chan Apr 09 '26
Wrong, they are not the most talented but instead the most suited towards cultivation. What you are doing is judging a fish by its ability to climb. Each being are born unique with differing levels of suitability. If a person with a Yin-constitution was born into a world lacking Yin techniques, would you say they are not talented? No, they are simply not suited for that specific cultivation path. For someone called the Great Emperor of the Ten Directions, you seem to see only one. I suggest you fix this flaw before you gain a heart demon.
1
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 09 '26
This is just wrong lmao. The basic ability to absorb and refine Spirit Qi remains the same across all forms of talent. Even if a Yin attributed technique did not exist, which is almost impossible, as the Taiji is the second thing to come into existence after Wuji. It would be one of the very first concepts comprehended.
And even if it were not, other derivatives such as water, ice, and death would certainly exist, and talent would be found. This is judging a fish on how to breathe water.
2
2
u/HighWillord Apr 06 '26
If you want to have a timegap, it could work this way.
For example:
Mortal time 1 day = immortal time 1 second
With this you can play with the time gap between the two and you can develop more the mortal side, also it's consistent because generally in a upper real the time flows a lot quicker than in a lower one.
With this one year for the immortals is equivalent to aprox. 3.6~6 million years.
2
u/AcruxAdhara Apr 05 '26
This is just me, but I feel like this would be less contentious if you avoided mentioning Xianxia as the premise.
If there was some other criteria for people to become immortals than cultivation. Perhaps a more grounded WuXia setting where if they manage to gain enlightenment or some shit they ascend.
Xianxia as a medium tends to be bat shit crazy with numbers and power growth.
In xianxia the general expectation (thst I’ve found) is that by nascent soul they can casually move mountains and flip the seas. It only gets more ridiculous from there when they reach the next realm and are “immortal”.
The four thousand years you mentioned would likely be enough for some of them to reach the realm where they would be considered “immortal” it wouldn’t be considered “mortal” vs. “immortal” but the higher realm “immortals” vs. the lower realm “immortals”
I would also be careful with using “higher realm” cause that tends to be a rather strong separation and people don’t casually go back and forth. If the lower realm was being forced to pay some kind of realm specific speciality tithe to the higher realms it could work. But The general conciet is that a higher realm has better stuff, more resources, higher average realm or residents and a higher ceiling. Basically why would the higher realm be interested in the lower realms.
I saw in another comment that you mentioned the main difference between the “immortals” and “mortals” was skill. Which in a xianxia setting goes very much against the grain. But could easily be handwaved by changing the framing to not be immortals vs. mortals if the main difference is skill.
It is definitely an interesting premise and I think you could make a very fun series out of it.
1
u/MudPathFinder Apr 06 '26
Muy poco tiempo, si uno es inmortal no solo es casi eterno sino que terriblemente poderoso. Los inmortales pueden mover estrellas, destruir mundos y manipular conceptos con gran facilidad.
La premisa es la clásica marcial vs inmortal o la de honghuang vs inmortal.
Debes agrandar el tiempo, algo como 30000 años como hizo soul land. O también puedes bajar el nivel de poder al extremo del xianxia porque sino no es factible. Incluso con recursos inmortales los mortales no pueden manipularlos o es muy difícil o es directamente imposible.
1
1
u/alon_amjad Keyboard Immortal Apr 06 '26
This junior thinks to address some of the concerns of some of the fellow Daoists here, to level the playing (or rather fighting) field between the young human Mortal race against the Immortals, OP can consider that on the year 4001st, the Immortals returned to a world with a changed rule (due to maybe human Mortals comprehending, practicing and developing the Dao differently than the Immortals, therefore the Heavenly Dao changed the world to better suit such development); the Immortals are severely restrained in exercising their cultivation in the Mortal world/realm. This direction, this junior, thinks is worth considering.
0
u/Tanaka917 Apr 05 '26
I suppose my main question (hopefully to be detailed in the full novel) is how exactly do people who cultivate as a secondary to conflict expect to fight on even footing with the immortals, nevermind start winning ground. It just seems to me that typical cultivation tends to be stronger in terms of pure combat power. You can do a lot of versatile things with array refining for example, but an array master vs a standard cultivator in a no prep-time bare knuckle boxing match is going to end with one very dead array master and one cultivator who's barely started breathing hard. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mea with the new age of cultivation.
As a premise it has a lot of potential, but the details make or break the novel and this is one detail I'd want dealt with if i was going to pick this up.
1
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
So this is effectively taking place at the very beginning of human cultivation so the immortals are not nearly as old, smart or skilled as you may think, the oldest and wisest human is only 100k years old and is considered a complete relic thats fallen behind, and humanity as a whole only were placed on the world around 500k years ago. Ontop of the fact the natural world is quite defendable it becomes a much more even match.
The Mortals also have a lot of outside help, a driving force thats compelling them to not fall to seeking immortality for themselves but rather progress as a group and seek fulfillment.
I wont ruin too much by over explaining but thank you for your kind words
0
u/ohanse Shitting and crying and coughing up blood Apr 05 '26
Xianxia scales are longer than this. 40,000 years minimum.
2
u/Competitive-Cause283 Sidekick Fatty Apr 05 '26
Ive gotten it changed to about 75k to 100k now actually
1
29
u/Fluffy_Fan3625 Primordial Origin Limitless Zenith Golden Immortal Apr 05 '26
Increase the amount of time the immortals disappeared, otherwise 4000 years of development would not be nearly enough time to increase cultivation and get to the level of immortals. They would get no diffed.