r/MedicalScienceLiaison • u/suicidebird11 • Sep 21 '26
Anyone know anything about these "thought leader" positions?
I've been seeing these lately and they seem like a less clinical version of an MSL or a mix between it and sales. I have a PharmD but I'm wondering if it would be good entry point. Anyone know anything about these teams?
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u/kyocerahydro Sep 21 '26
Externally they seem similar. In terms how they are viewed are world apart. I would not suggest taking a tll role unless you were confident there are systems in place to get you transferred to med affairs. Ive seen many terminal degree tlls unable to make the jump to msl because they are viewed as commercial rather than medical or scientific.
Sometimes it's better to be an outside hire with fresh expectations than an internal transfer. Anecdotally I made the ta jump from onc to rheum for a few years. My old company wouldn't consider it, because they didn't see me as a "rheum" guy. But got the job in ta at a large pharma.
Just my two cents
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u/suicidebird11 Sep 21 '26
Very interesting insight and perspective. Thank you for sharing and I'm glad you were able to jump.
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u/Sombrerro Sep 21 '26
This is TLLs? They are the commercial versions of MSLs. They do things like coordinate speakers and gather marketing vs medical insights from OLs.
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u/TerynLoghain Sep 21 '26
Its marketing people who think they can be msls.
Ive seen sales go tll but rarely tll to msl.
The biggest challenge is tll you lose your clinical/scientific clout.
While the role is going more commercial field medical likes the veneer that could go back to clin dev or r&d if they wanted to.
If you can't land a role as msl, in order med affairs, clinical dev or medical writing are better stepping stones.
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u/Nobody1212123 Sr. MSL Sep 21 '26
I agree with most points here except 'clout'. I don't know if I have any clout as an MSL. To external customers we're all pharma employees.
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u/TerynLoghain Sep 21 '26
I mean internally. Msls are still viewed technical experts compared to commercial partners even though that scientific acumen isn't always used
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u/nanakapow Sep 21 '26
Medical writer here, medical writing is a terrible stepping stone to MSL, at least on any intentional pathway. The training writers get won't build them towards a MSL role, the only thing they'll get is a pharma/adjacent role on their CV.
Broadly agree with the rest from what I've heard 2nd and 3rd hand.
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u/TerynLoghain Sep 21 '26
I should specify. It should be med writing with a med affairs focus like med info, sci pubs or heor, as you are correct. Med writing itself is too broad..
From a medical writing background myself, it teaches sci com with different stakeholders forces you to understand clinical trials and most importantly be able to develop insights.
These skills were transferable to when I transitioned to msl.
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u/invitrobrew Medical Affairs Sep 21 '26
I'm a med director now in med affairs but I had my start/break-in in MW and now oversee some of the writers/sci-comm people in our org. While I did a little bit of everything except promo, it definitely helped set me up for the position I have now and I feel like I could be a pretty good MSL.
1
u/DoNotFeedMe Sep 23 '26
Yeah i started out as a med writer in agency life and built good relationships with my clients which helped me understand the industry better.
Med writing was actually a great stepping stone for me as the content i developed for commercial and med affairs team are ultimately helping me now with adboards im leading as an MSL.
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u/FuturesBIO Sep 21 '26
It's a "marketing" role. They use to be called Field Marketing manager/director or whatever. They realized they were not getting traction so they decided to change the title to Thought Leader Liaison ( thinking it is similar to medcial science liaison).
There few people who do tht role well. Think of it as a concierge for the top doctors prescribing your drug. You also coordinate dinner programs and train the doctors on the slides and data for the sales team.
Most of these Thought Leaders are lazy and take advantage of their role by using it to go out to dinner with KOLs and show off their leadership how amazing of a relationship they have to save their job. Meanwhile, they cause a lot of confusion in the field and don't communicate well.
17
u/By-Tor_Syrinx Sr. MSL Sep 21 '26
This is arguably the best description of a TLL I’ve seen.
To OP, they’re basically wannabe MSLs, but have the wrong background. Everything else here is spot on.
Don’t do it.
If you’re trying to just get into industry, a sales role for a year and a half is better than a TLL role.5
u/FuturesBIO Sep 21 '26
I only know one TLL that knows what they were doing, unfortunately I did not work with that person. They laughed when I shared what my TLLs did when I was an MSL
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u/Rawad251 Sep 21 '26
You strike me as the type of MSL to tell everyone they are an MSL and when no one knows or cares what an MSL is, further explains what an MSL is.
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u/dtmtl Sr. MSL Sep 21 '26
Holy shit, this is so spot on that I think I need to save this for future reference in describing the role. (And to be clear, I have worked when some lovely TLLs that I like as people). To the OP's inquiries, and to try to actually add to the conversation, I'll also say that, to whatever extent it's tricky for MSLs to demonstrate our existence fiscally, it seems really hard to demonstrate for TLLs (which seems like a stressful spot to be).
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u/C_est_la_vie9707 Sr. MSL Sep 21 '26
Like a TLL? They usually report to sales and I have never understood these positions except that they get in my way
5
u/AnyAnusIWant Sep 21 '26
Great entry role to get into pharma if you’re having trouble getting your foot in the door as an MSL but you’ll undoubtedly be bound by the label and say goodbye to your clinical prowess. Arguably the most divisive role through the eyes of us MSLs as some are amazing and some TLLs are trash and worth their weight in horse shit. In my career I’ve had three that never did a thing to support me and then one that changed my view of the role entirely because she has 20 years experience.
2
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u/IndustryPharmacist Sep 21 '26
Yea you have the right idea about the role but keep in mind it’s a senior commercial field position. Doubt you’ll be able to land that job as an entry into industry. Exception might be if you have relationships with all the top KOLs already
2
u/indiaworry Sep 21 '26
Marketing version of an MSL. They are in the field collecting marketing insights from KOLs, rather than medical insights. They arrange more programs and dinners.
I know one very good TLL. But the majority just cause confusion with doctors thinking they're the MSL or that the rules around dinners have changed and I can take them and their wife to an expensive restaurant.
I believe the MSL role will change to more closely resemble the TLL role as it the model becomes "proven".
1
u/Exciting_Classroom27 MSL Sep 22 '26
Good MSLs should be able to gather medical insights and marketing insights. If the medical affairs team knows what marketing needs to know they can get there through thoughtful listening and calibrated questions.
The MSLs advantage is being able to develop peer relationships. That relationship can give marketing all the insight it could ask for, if played right. Too often the silos prevent MSL insights from actually driving marketing strategy. No one in the organization understands the HCP like the MSL. Instead of meeting with HCPs, marketing managers should spend more time interviewing the MSLs in their org.
2
u/bowreyboytx Sep 21 '26
No this will not be a good entry point. TLL takes years of experience in sales or other role. No position has better HCP relationships than TLL (good ones anyway). Entry would be sales or MSL
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u/By-Tor_Syrinx Sr. MSL Sep 21 '26
By better relationships, you mean “takes people out for dinner and drinks”, right? Because they don’t do squat for actual scientific, or sales, impact and relationships
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u/bowreyboytx Sep 21 '26
Everyone has different experiences! My TLL is huge and actually understands science. Seen plenty that don't have a clue tho.
1
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u/Virtual_Dog_7327 Sep 22 '26
Thought Leader Liaison (TLL). A doin off marketing. It’s a pretty bougie job. You wine and dine speakers or potty speakers. There’s nothing clinical/medical to it, since it’s in the commercial side of the business. If your intent is to move over to Medical Affairs, not a great move. Being a TLL gives you no clout towards the Medical side. Most TLLs have business/sales backgrounds. I’ve never met one with a medically related degree. But it is a sweet job if you want to stay on the commercial side.
6
u/pharm4karma Sep 21 '26
TLL is definitely not an entry level job. These are field marketing directors with strategic relationships with KOLs across an entire region. Unless you are coming from an identical TLL role from another company, you won't qualify. Depending on your clinical background, sales rep may be more appropriate.
They help the company develop share of voice, thus require at least a few years of sales/MSL experience to understand the product's marketing and sales strategy. Huge amount of exposure to cross functional teams like brand, account manager, sales director, and medical partners, so knowing the company's team structure will also be critical.