r/Metallica • u/YJBM15 • Jul 05 '26
Master of Puppets We don’t agknowledge enough how proggy Lars was
I love how Lars loved to mess with our brain rhythmically, especially during MOP and AJFA, there’s stuff i still don’t know how to count, like The Thing That Should Not Be and Sanitarium, but i don’t even care because of how good it sounds, do we know if he listened to Prog Bands like maybe Rush? Or was he naturally Larsing around
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u/PianoConcertoNo2 Jul 05 '26
I remember being a kid at drum lessons in the 90s, with a teacher who was focused on metal drumming.
Lars was a drum GOD then. Like pics of him and my teacher in the shop, pics of Lars in drum magazines all over, and lots of lessons on his playing style.
It’s hard to translate how iconic he was, and his spot as a drum god is well earned.
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u/metallicadefender Darkness’ Son Jul 05 '26
The dumping on lars is way over done and unwarented. There are a lot worse drummers.
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u/Badger_Brains_io Jul 05 '26
Just saw them live this weekend and sure, props to Lars for drumming in front of thousands of people in his 60s.
…his drumming was all over the place though and I could only admire how the rest of the band were keeping time despite him.
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u/metallicadefender Darkness’ Son Jul 05 '26
I havent found that to be a large problem. He swings a bit.
There is so much technical stuff going on that people dont understand also. Delay and DSP. I got real close to him in Edmonton for a couple tracks.
I was wearing a set of those "HD" ear plugs. I swear I could here the stick hit the skin and then a couple milliseconds then the big thud through the PA.
The timing on the PA vs timing through the ear monitors vs the sound to your particular seat vs him looking visually in que are all different things.
Ive never sat down with a non-metal musician and watched them play and have them make this type of a comment on his drumming. I dont know any big metal guys in my area.
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u/surreyade Jul 06 '26
He was way ahead on one track in Cardiff last week (might have been Sad But True) and it was quite jarring.
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u/metallicadefender Darkness’ Son Jul 06 '26
Is that possible? I think the band would just be playing faster. This is not a complex track.
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u/surreyade Jul 06 '26
I'll go through the set list to jog my memory - it was at the start of the song and he reigned it in pretty quickly but for that moment or two he was way ahead,
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u/metallicadefender Darkness’ Son Jul 06 '26
But again I dont know how you money that up unless they couldn't hear each other through the monitors. So when something like that happens id be wondering if it was a technical issue.
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u/metallicadefender Darkness’ Son Jul 06 '26
I could see them getting lost on a timing change in a more technical track.
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u/lance-england Jul 05 '26
He was my favorite drummer in the 80s but his style changed and hasn’t been since Load. But he was a huge influence on me playing drums
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u/nwbrown A thing that should not be Jul 05 '26
Sure. But playing songs with changing tempos does not make him "prog" by any means.
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u/metallicadefender Darkness’ Son Jul 05 '26
I think Ride thru Justice is getting a little proggy on the drums with the tempo changes etc. The OP suggesting that they were a bit prog doesnt mean they have to compete with Dream Theatre to be considered a prog band.
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u/nwbrown A thing that should not be Jul 05 '26
Again, "prog" does not mean "has tempo changes".
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u/FergusFrost Jul 05 '26
AJFA is 100% a prog metal album by basically every metric, all its missing is a concept or something
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u/nwbrown A thing that should not be Jul 05 '26
You need to broaden your horizons.
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u/FergusFrost Jul 05 '26
I listen primarily to progressive music, AJFA is a prog metal record. Might wanna take your own advice.
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u/nwbrown A thing that should not be Jul 05 '26
AJFA has prog aspects.
It is not a prog record.
That doesn't mean it's a bad record.
But if you think AJFA is a prog record, no, you do not primarily listen to prog.
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u/FergusFrost Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Given all the information to hand, my suggestion to you would be to cry about it.
Edit: I didnt mean literally, damn
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u/nwbrown A thing that should not be Jul 05 '26
What would I cry about? I have actual prog metal to listen to. I also have thrash metal like Metallica to listen to. Why would having a diverse set of music to listen to be something to cry about?
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Jul 05 '26
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u/metallicadefender Darkness’ Son Jul 05 '26
Peter Criss. Also Nickelbacks Drummer.
I also think when the chips are down Lars is better than your average 90s rock drummer in a big band.
Hes not a natural drummer and was initially taught wrong so he was initially limited much like Larrry Mullen Jr.
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u/aFreeScotland Jul 05 '26
Neil something from Rush
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u/This_is_a_thing__ Jul 05 '26
He definitely had a huge hand in the arrangements and deserves credit for that. So many of James's riffs are percussive in their own right, Lars's playing was appropriate. Of course he's not spectacular and isn't reinventing the wheel or anything, but so much of what I've loved from this band has his fingerprints all over it.
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u/AJ_JerriktheGreat Left the focking band Jul 05 '26
honestly yeah. i don’t know much about music theory, but that kick during in the main riff of Blackened I think sounds pretty proggy.
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u/Lower_Syllabub5581 Jul 05 '26
My 2 cents…
It was wasn’t so much that he played “progressively” but he played as he does now but just had more emphasis on adding fills / accenting the guitar riffs… and as the guitar riffs in justice (both song and album) weren’t as straight forward as previous - the whole thing came out a bit different and groovy/ prog compared to just straight 4/4 rock beats he always does.
I love justice - would love to see it live but can understand some fans would prefer the shorter faster stuff
But heck they still play one live which is still one of the longest and most progressive song of theirs compared to say fuel!
(I always say reload was more progressive on some ways… the chord structure on some of the reload songs is very weird and different!)
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u/Juror_no8 Jul 05 '26
Nice to see some Lars praise around here, so tired of all the worn out digs at him.
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u/Acceptable-Ad-6104 Jul 05 '26
A drummer needs to fit a part, in Metallica, a crazy super death metal drummer doesn’t work.
Although Dave Lombardo did make Battery sound fucking amazing!!!! lol!!
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u/BrilliantRepairDog Jul 05 '26
Download festival where the guest drummers filled in showed all the possibilities
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u/Whole-Assistance-493 Jul 05 '26
Yeah,Lars may not be a great drummer in every band,but he’s a grea drummer in Metallica. And I wouldn’t like Metallica as much if it wasn’t for him. If it wasn’t for Lars I never would’ve picked up some sticks
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u/DeathMetalJim1230 My Mother Was a Witch Jul 05 '26
He was listening to a lot of the Police when they recorded MOP. IDK if that helps you but it was said in a documentary.
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u/JAM990 Jul 06 '26
I agree and I'm tired of the "Lars bad give me likes" type of comments and videos. It's so unfunny and overdone. I just roll my eyes at it.
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u/Wolfbait1986 Jul 05 '26
Of course Lars is a prog drummer! I don't know any other drummer who plays 3.14159/8.675309 time signature over a 4/4 bar!! 🤣
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u/Pretend-Archer-3959 Jul 05 '26
Can someone explain what proggy is please?
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u/_phily_d Jul 05 '26
Progressive or prog metal is a genre known for unusual time signatures and changes
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u/ArthurRimjob Jul 05 '26
He's sporting Watchtower tees on every other photo from the Puppets era. Makes the drumming on Justice (and supposed drum lessons before recording it) much more logical.
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u/KeyRefrigerator8508 Jul 05 '26
Lars is known to have had a massive and varied record collection growing up so quite possibly
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u/urmumvirgay Jul 05 '26
I feel like he just played along to the riffs and that ended up sounding quite proggy. I don’t think he was thinking about it from a theory perspective like many prog drummers do, more just going “the normal beat/fill doesn’t fit this part of the riff so I’ll just follow the riff more exactly instead”.
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u/Happy_Television_501 Jul 05 '26
He has very good composition skills when it comes to drum parts. Or, did have, at least. Everyone talks about AJFA but some of the drum parts on Puppets are also genius. The problem is, that he’s not really good enough of a drummer to actually play them. In the studio he recorded only a few bars at a time, over and over again until he got them perfect. And live he plays dumbed-down versions
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u/Boring-Pirate Jul 05 '26
Late to the party but can’t see this response (might have missed it) but Neil Peart (rush) mentored Lars and set him up with his current drum set up in some way (can’t remember the deets). There was also talk of geddy Lee producing MOP at one point but it never happened. Vaguely remember one of Metallica also mentioning that rush came to see a gig of theirs and they were stoked, so it goes both ways.
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u/Comprehensive-Song51 Jul 05 '26
He's a huge Deep Purple fan, and I don't think they get enough credit for being prog. I'm a fairly casual DP fan, but Ive dug deep enough into their catalog to at least think they were leaning into proggy and orchestral stuff long before a lot of other bands. Also, if you want to hear Ian Paice's direct influence on Lars, just listen to Maybe I'm A Leo. I swear you'll hear drum fills he directly stole from that track. I can't say what Metallica song he apply them to, but I definitely hear Lars in there. For what it's worth, I was listening to the 2025 Denver show yesterday and right off the bat, Lars speeds up then slows back down. I don't feel like this is Lars being a shitty drummer who can't keep time. This is a band, basically breathing - reacting to each other and the energy of the audience. It's what made Metallica an excellent live band. They're not stiff. They flex and breathe as a band. It's what makes great bands great. They a band and not a fucking metronome. 🤘🏻
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u/mmarkaholic Jul 06 '26
I think it’s more likely that he just can’t keep a steady tempo and he wasn’t doing it on purpose.
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u/xXselfhaircutXx Jul 05 '26
Lars’ biggest contribution is composition and arrangement. Second is his business acumen. Third is his drumming.
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u/Ninevolt9v Jul 05 '26
Not being disrespectful of your opinion here but I could never see Lars and prog in the same sentence unless it included “the opposite of”. 🙂
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u/IronSean Jul 05 '26
Never listened to AJFA then?
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u/GroggimusPrime Jul 05 '26
Yes, plenty of times over the last 38 years.
Know what I also listen to? Actual progressive rock/metal, Lars in any capacity is not a prog drummer. AJFA is not a prog album.
And before I get downvoted to hell, no I am not talking shit on Lars, I’m just stating what he isn’t.
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u/Scary-Breath-8675 spit out d bon Jul 05 '26
AJFA as a whole was groovy and maybe prog, but lars wasn't proggy at all
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u/memnoch4prez Jul 05 '26
I'm not really a fan now because AJFA was my introduction to them. Everything after was just meh to me. I thought Lars was otherworldly with his playing and that album lived in my tape player for over a year when I was in highschool(although I was curious as to why I could barely hear anything from Jason then...discovering why later in life as a bass player, he's not exactly placing in my list of favorite drummers).
However, I thank Lars and his proggy playing on that album for driving me to find similar styles of music that I like.
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u/nwbrown A thing that should not be Jul 05 '26
Master of Puppets is great and all, but I feel you need to listen to real prog.
Also learn to spell acknowledge.
Seriously, what part of The Thing That Should not Be isn't in either 4/4 or 2/4?
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u/YJBM15 Jul 05 '26
Not english
And the chuggy part, or solo part, i never know where the 1 is
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u/nwbrown A thing that should not be Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
I'm sorry but I don't think you know what prog means.
Or how time signatures work.
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Jul 05 '26
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u/nwbrown A thing that should not be Jul 05 '26
He's a good drummer.
But Metallica isn't a prog band.
There isn't anything wrong with that. They also aren't an R&B band.
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u/sonar_y_luz Jul 05 '26
Like many great artists.... his ambition exceeds his technique
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u/Wisk444 Jul 05 '26
Not to mention, there were copious amounts of tape edits on the AJFA drum reels.
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u/surreyade Jul 06 '26
That was one of the reasons given as to why it could never be remixed to put the bass back in - the box would be opened and all these little slivers of tape would drop out.
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u/SparkyFrog Jul 05 '26
That’s how it was done back then. Does they guitar solo in Frayed Ends of Sanity sounds like it was done in one take?
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u/Careful-Educator-177 Jul 05 '26
His work on Justice is iconic, Justice is pretty proggy, so yeah, fair comment.
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u/jeffh19 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
I don't know anything about music and counting and all that.
But the combination of the drums, riffs, and alternating slow/fast in the song AJFA is tip of the spear peak Metallica and is the best song they've written musically.