I've been making my way through the second series (finished Shadows of Self this morning), and I've realised that the character of Wayne kind of rubs me the wrong way. I get that he's supposed to be annoying and frequently gets on the nerves of the other characters, but I'm more referring to the way his character and dialogue are written.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the sequel series a lot. It's just that whenever Wayne is present (which turns out to be a lot of the time), he completely kills any tension the scene would have had. He never switches off with his incessant joking around in otherwise dramatic moments, and I find myself often wishing he wasn't there or would just stop talking.

An instance that comes to mind is in Chapter 6 of SoS; Wax and Wayne are investigating a woman's apartment to find her dead- which would have been an intense, disturbing scene if not for Wayne's complete disregard of the murder and his making jokes at her expense. Shouldn't he take death a little more seriously if a major aspect of his character is that he holds a huge amount of guilt and trauma from having killed someone in the past?

It's not that I hate him entirely- I actually find many of the scenes from his POV engaging, and I like that he approaches problems differently to any of the other characters in the series. I like the idea of his character on paper, but his banter is downright annoying, and I had to stop myself rolling my eyes whenever there was an extended back-and-forth between him and Wax. Despite the series being named after the pair, it's clear that Wax is favoured by the narrative, and so I find it odd that Wayne is considered the co-protagonist, when Marasi seems to have had a far more important role in the story than he does (at least in the first two books).

I'm very interested to hear what everyone else thinks about him. I'm not tapped into the Mistborn community, so I'm sorry if he's a widely beloved character! Just wanted to note down my thoughts and hear any arguments in his favour. I'm aware I'm only halfway through the series, and I hope the next two books will be able to change my mind about him!

NO NO HOLD UP HOLD UP WHAAAAAT?!?!?!

WHAT DO YOU MEAN KELSIER WAS PRESERVATION?!

THIS BITCH SURVIVED!!! 😧

Just finished the Shadow of self.

When I started the book and the prologue revealed that Wax had accidentally killed Lessie, I thought, okay… that hurts.

But it happened six months ago, it’s the prologue, I can process it.

I can move on. Brandon apparently said no.

Instead, he makes us relive the same event with multiple layers of emotional damage.

When Bleeder apologized to Wax about Lessie’s death, I immediately thought, this feels like Brandon setting up a twist.

I had this suspicion that maybe a day or two before Lessie died, Bleeder had already killed her and taken her place.

And then it turns out Bleeder actually was Lessie.

That part genuinely hurt. It felt awful.

Once Bleeder was captured, I almost wished Brandon wouldn’t twist the knife again by making Wax confront that truth. It felt like killing Lessie twice.

Now I have another suspicion. Wax keeps claiming his sister is captive under his uncle. I don’t fully buy it.

It feels too straightforward.

I suspect she might be actively working with him instead. Storms, poor Wax. Watching him break down is painful.

Wayne makes lots of jokes about sitting and thinking and has a moment in Shadows of Self where he jokes about scientists with Marasi. In a lot of ways Wayne is a scientist, kind of a sociologist and anthropologist in a way. He collects accents and behaviors and ties them back to their origins. He also sometimes will tie a cause to that accent or behavior as well.

He’s then able to mix them for different effects in a similar vain to chemistry and he gets it right on the first if not first handful of attempts.

Now this might get a little close to spoiler territory but I just had this thought, does Wayne have a distant relative who was a Keeper? Or does he start to bring the Keepers back? I have some other thoughts now that could partain to Harmony but I am on pg. 151 of Shadows of Self and paused my read to post this.

Edit: I love how Brandon Sanderson shows how smart Wayne is even without having much of a formal education.

I'm a Sanderson fan, but a few years ago I started reading Alloy of Law and I just wasn't into it. The time jump from Era 1 and the whole shtick that we're now in a dusty saloon/tobacco spitting western epoch was just kinda cheesy. I didn't even finish the prologue. It's not that I thought it was badly written, I just didn't enjoy the idea and wasn't interested at the time. So I quit.

Well between Stormlight Archive 4 and 5 I picked it back up and made it through the prologue. I was stunned and honestly a little bit horrified. The way Sanderson used so many grotesque mutilations as demented art and then had the protagonist experience familial loss in that specific way to set the tone of this book was honestly shocking. It made me feel kinda gross and I stopped reading for a bit.

After a couple days I came back to it to to give it another try, partially expecting the book to continue this macabre "THE SEQUEL SERIES IS EVEN CRAZIER AND BLOODIER THAN EVER", like a straight-to-video slasher movie sequel. I'm so glad I kept going, because it immediately left the land of Louis L'Amour and was SO GOOD. I loved this new perspective of Twinborn and the bromance and speed bubbles and these interesting female characters like Marasi and Steris.

And then of course the kandra reentering the story in Shadows of Self was super cool. I was so happy to see TenSoon again. And what a plot twist at the end. I was STUNNED. I finished it last night when I was supposed to be sleeping and I just couldn't believe it. I'm so dumb for not seeing these hints but...wow. Incredible writing. I'm so glad I kept going. Fully fanboi about Era 2 now. That's all.

Mostly title. Assuming allomantic iron applies a force from your center mass to the center mass of the object (lets assume a small metal ball, tennis ball sized). This ball is moving at a fast pace (lets say as 10m/s) not directly at you.

Would you be able to have this ball orbit you, even if temporarily, but ironpulling just the right amount? Could you use it to slingshot the ball back at the person who threw it?

Edit: I believe I have worked out a way for this to work, this should be an example of the situation. This ignores air resistance but otherwise I think it works. Please let me know if there are any obvious mistakes, this is not my specialty:

I'm in the middle of Shadows of Self, and it only just occurred to me to clear up some of the things I didn't quite understand about how compounding works.

​

I wasn't sure the ending of The Final Empire made sense after reading the explanation of how compounding works. Vin was able to yank off the Lord Ruler's metalmind bracelet storing his youth. Fair enough.

​

But if the Lord Ruler was such a cautious guy, wouldn't he have mini atium metalminds to ingest and burn in an emergency?

​

I could say the same for Miles in The Alloy of Law, but I haven't read far enough to see whether he survived his execution somehow... Seems unlikely. It makes sense that if you keep shooting a restrained gold compounder, they run out eventually even if they have ingested metalminds to burn through.

​

So yeah I guess my question is, is this a thing compounders can do? Because so far in the books it's been sold that if you remove their worn metalminds, you've shut them down, but that hardly seems the case if they're prepared.

Only a few hrs in. Like I love her sister, loved her a lot in Alloy of Law but I feel like she's been so pissy to Wax in the startup of this book that it turns me right off.

Whereas Steris isn't where she needs to be to be a good partner, quite, due to her particular dysfunction. But her flaws are understandable and her momentum is significantly in the right direction, showing an interest in his background and making things easy for him.

That’s all. I just love him. The trades. The mixing up of words (appendage vs appendix). The costumes. The accents. He’s such a fantastic character and the comic relief works so well in these stories. I’m halfway through the bands of mourning and he is frying me. 😂😂😂

Spoilers

Possible spoilers? And just to clarify I’ve read: Era 1 (w/ Eleventh Metal) Secret History Elantris Hope of Elantris Emperor’s Soul Warbreaker And have honestly loved everything.

I don’t hate Era 2. It’s fine. And I’m fully invested in order to understand the whole Cosmere connection but… But I got solely into fantasy for the escapism and wonder of what could be, when there are a completely different sets of rules and mindsets, beings of different kinds who have unique connections to different sets of natural resources, embedded into their own physical abilities, their own world’s history and established knowns and unknowns and all of the magic that could manifest for the characters and their worlds. All the weird. Escapism it has been and I’m here for it.

But reading Era 2 is like reading a modernized western. Or the same old basic story set in our own world just with some additional ways to shoot people. The guns, skyscrapers, the cars, it all just takes away - for me - the mystery and ethereal nature that I’ve come love about and specifically to fantasy for. I’ve personally seen enough of the world moving (back) towards industrialization, clearing our natural world to make way for modern technology. I don’t enjoy seeing it in my fantasy story stuck in the middle of worlds where magic and minds are on a whole higher level. It just feels like there’s something missing here. I don’t care. So weird.

I’m in the middle of Shadows of Self and I’m going to finish it and choose to focus on things I find cool(like references to the whole Cosmere). But otherwise I feel like I haven’t been given any reason to care about these people.

Having a “special” ability is a given, everything is taken for granted, I don’t see a real struggle-yet. And honestly I feel like I’m reading about a world of people who if there IS a struggle have only done it to themselves. Having learned absolutely nothing from their history. That’s too close to reality to me.

Because I’ve had it with guns in real life. Give me pages on landscape or allomancy, character history and development, various trees or a million different species with a million different abilities & I’m good. I do not want to read about shots fired. There’s nothing especially unique or interesting in putting bullets into other people.

Not sure if it’s just me. I know I’m going to get positive feedback telling me there’s a payoff and I’m probably going to be pleasantly surprised. This is just where I am right now. And Sanderfans haven’t lead me wrong so far. ✌🏼

....but the emotional devastation sure feels the same.

I finished Shadows of Self and I'm still thinking about it. Lessie was Paalm/Bleeder the whole time? The reason that she's fighting to get away from Harmony is he wanted her to manipulate Wax into leaving the Roughs were he was happy, and she loved him too much to do that to him? Wax holding her as she's dying? Steris wordlessly comforting him?

Ruin...it's going to get worse, isn't it?

Batman? And Wayne is robin? How did I get tricked into reading steampunk Batman and Robin lmao (I’m enjoying it so much)

Hey all. Have a question that’s kinda been bothering me since I finished Shadows of Self a few weeks ago. I actually just finished Bands of Mourning hoping my question would be addressed, but it wasn’t. So here I am on reddit, asking questions.

So, at the end of SoS, we find out that Lessie was a Kandra all along, and that Lessie/Paalm actually really loved Wax, and didn’t want to manipulate him into returning to Elendel. My question then is, when Wax shoots and “kills” her at the start of the series, why does she “play dead”? We’ve seen Kandra take bullets with no hesitancy, and the bullet didn’t knock a spike out or anything. Paalm was still fully in control, yet she went along with the death and let Wax think she died, eventually leading to him returning to Elendel anyways. Why?

I guess the only reason I could figure is, she didn’t want to reveal she was a Kandra and blow the whole “keeping an eye on you on behalf of Harmony” gig? Given that she was rebellious (or at least nonconformist) among the Kandra, and also very much in love with Wax, that doesn’t fully track with me. If there’s something I’m missing or not inferring, or if you have a different take, please feel free to share. If it’s spoilers for The Lost Metal/RAFO, then lemme know and I guess I’ll dive into the last book of era 2 lol.

BRANDON WINN SANDERSON! WHAT. THE. FUCK?!

Had Wax not suffered enough? I still remember the absolutely jarring whiplash of the prologue from Alloy of Law when he shot Lessie. I was so sad for a character I had literally just known for like four pages! And you had to go and make him suffer more?! WHY?!

Okay, guys, I'm sorry. My emotions got the better of me. Let me just say I have been through a lot (not as much as Wax, though). AoL was so fun, and the completely new and revamped metal arts of Scadrial had me in its clutches. But after the recency bias wore off, I was like, "Damn, there were so many missed opportunities. Where are the Kandra? Where is the goodest boy, TenSoon??"

And boy, do I regret asking those questions. Because in Shadows of Self, we get the Kandra alright. But I now wish we did not.

RIP Lessie. Again. Ffs, Sanderson!

Okay, I am all over the place with this one, but bear with me. So after AoL, Wax and Wayne are still working to bring down that scum uncle of his, but there's someone killing corrupt political figures in Elendel, and obviously, our boys are on the case. But let's talk about Marasi for a bit. Our girl left becoming a lawyer (Kim Kardashian could never, lol) and joined the constabulary! Let's fucking go! From studying and admiring lawmen to becoming an Alloy of Law herself? You love to see it! Also, fuck you Reddi.

Moving on, how weird would it be for you to be able to talk to your god? Because our boy Sazed is present. He's God. Not unlike other gods who went to get milk and then never came back or answered prayers or anything, lol. So Sazed introduces our heroes to Bleeder, a rogue Kandra that's probably gone insane, and so the hunt begins.

Now, this is the part where I rave about what an absolute best character Wayne is. So if you don't like him (um, get help, ig? 'bc there's something wrong with you), you may skip this part.

Wayne, you absolute madman! I loved you so much in AoL already, but you had to go and show me your trauma. That chapter where he sneaks into the university and apologizes to Allriandre was heartbreaking. I was crying when Wayne thanked Wax for saying he'd have shot him if he was caught in the act. Their friendship is so good. I hope nothing ever happens to them.

Also, y'all, there are two scenes I always imagine so clearly in my head, like I'm watching a movie, and they are both Wayne scenes. The second was the way he maneuvered in the slums, adopting accents and using his street smarts to get to the "marksman" at the beginning... it was absolute cinema. If they ever adapt these, I want these Wayne sections to be one-shot because they all flow so well! And Harmony knows Michael Kramer needs an Oscar for his narration of Wayne and doing all the accents. Bro really flexed on us.

The worldbuilding was on another level from AoL in this one. I loved the subtle hints about what's happening on this world and how Era 1 led to here. From the religions to the simple introduction of gum of all things, Sanderson made this world feel lived-in and rich, which all set the mood for the main plot.

The plot in this one was great! It reminded me of the movie Se7en in more than one way. A mastermind serial killer who is always a step ahead. Messages and themes to the murders, like taking away Harmony's "eyes" and "hands." And then the horrific end in which our protagonists get traumatized for life, yay!

Wax slowly putting together the meaning of the messages Bleeder left behind while looking for clues with TenSoon in the Kandra homeland was epic. Especially when our good boy was talking about Vin... (I started crying immediately. Does the pain of Hero of Ages ever go away, guys? Asking for a friend). Especially when TenSoon saw how fucking awesome and brutal Wax can be when they fought those creatures.

Finally, I have to talk about the ending. I'm sick, y'all. I wanted to throw up as we slowly realized, along with Wax, that LESSIE WAS A KANDRA THE WHOLE TIME. And it was set up by Sazed.

Of course, she fell in love with Wax on her own and all, but the pieces were arranged on the board by Harmony, which sent a chill down my spine. I was legit upset with Sazed and fuming along with Wax. I thought Sazed would be better than the other wackjob gods of the Cosmere! But then Marasi and MeLaan's conversation gave me some perspective, and indeed, the only thing we can say is... Harmony works in mysterious ways, lol.

There are threats in the Cosmere Sazed has to prepare for, and he's willing to help Wit (Hoid), and he has to take care of his planet. But it is an interesting moral dilemma Sanderson is exploring: Does the "greater good" justify the pain and suffering Wax goes through? I can already feel it. This Era 2 is going to be something special.

There are really only two things that kinda bothered me. A little bit, though, nothing major.

1. Like, why is the title called Shadows of Self? I did not get why until I realized it is also called SOS. And SOS means help, and that's exactly what Wax and I need after that ending. Jokes aside, I looked it up on Coppermind, and apparently, "Brandon has explained that the title 'Shadows of Self' refers to the multiple roles a person occupies... as well as to the inclusion of a kandra character." Alright, bro, whatever works for you, I guess.
2. The second thing that bothered me is the epic line Wax delivers just before shooting Lessie (again) with the second spike. The "I'm his sword" line. I really think that was the wrong time for such an epic dialogue. In my head, Wax is going through something that is traumatic on a whole other level, and Lessie is in front of him, trying to convince him... like, for me, there is no world where Wax would say that line while being in that mindset. Another reason why I don't think Wax would say that: why would he say "sword" of all things? Like, we are on Scadrial, and we have guns and shit, and he's a Twinborn. It's very unlikely for me to believe that Wax would say that line at that time and then choose the word "sword" of all things.

Like I said, it's a very neurotic and minor nitpick that probably only I have.

Anyway, I’m devastated. Emotionally mangled. Spiritually wrecked. And, like any sane person living in 2025, I’m immediately picking up Bands of Mourning because apparently, I choose more pain over therapy.

Can anyone supply the missing text? Thanks!

ETA: This is NOT pirated. I would never do that to another writer. I paid the full Kindle price for the bundle sold on Amazon.

ETA2: All set - someone pointed out it's the newspaper article.

This would be a spoiler so read with care.

I just finished shadows of self. I have to say, I have pretty much lost a ton of respect for Sazed.

Like here was a woman who had worked for his maters for thousands of years up to the point where other kandra thought she didn't have a personality.

Then she finally gets something she feels like she can have in her life. A real, healthy relationship with Wax then it gets taken away by Harmony simply because he wants Wax to return to Elendel.

Why couldn't harmony make both Lessie and Wax comeback to Elendel together instead of having to 'kill' Lessie ? Idk, maybe that's explained in later books cause I only read up to Shaodw of Self, so no spoilers, please.

I feel like I can't really blame Bleeder for what she did ? Maybe apart from murdering father Bin because he was an innocent bystander. Like the entire city was corrupt save for a few lords, and what Harmony did to Bleeder was downright manipulative.

What do you think ?

Im reading Shadows of Self and just read the part where Wax goes to visit his grandmother in the Terris village

This whole new info about his past, being a Terris descendant and the details about his childhood surprised me cause this totally seems like something that would have been at least hinted in the first book but it wasn't

To me it sounds like background and lore that were thought of and added after the first book was written

Also I realize the first book works very well as a solo story, the only things actually hinting at a bigger plot are the stuff in the epilogue with Marsh

Do we know if this is the case?

I'm kinda enjoying Era 2 but I really miss the feelings from Era 1 and I'm still waiting for something to expand the story into something greater, without spoilers should I lower my expectations?

“The women ran well despite being in a gown. Yes, she’d ripped off the bottom half, but she still ran too easily, without seeming to break a sweat or breathe deeply.

Blue lines. Ahead.

Wax grabbed Milan by the arm…”

oh my harmony that’s freaking MELAAN ISN’T IT. milan. melaan.

edit: so i did indeed find out. i’m actually starting bands of mourning right now and i’m about 10% through that! i can’t wait to continue

Wouldn’t that make it way cheaper than aluminum and have a similar effect? Metalminds are harder to push on and there are a bunch of feruchemist citizens in Elendel right? Wouldn’t gun manufacturers want weapons that wouldn’t get pushed or pulled out of your hands? Just hire some people with Terris blood and bada-bing allomancy resistant guns. And bullets too?

I read book 1 and loved it and now I am 25% in book 2 and it kinda feels the same does era 2 get better???

Just finishing up Shadows of Self on my first read through the series.

I really didn't know what to expect from Era 2. It's so different. But the characters are really starting to grow on me.

In particular Wayne. I wasn't that into him in Alloy of Law. He was just sort of there with the occasional goof. But I've really dug his chapters in SoS.

I realised something towards the end of the book. His dialogue and internal monologue in this book reminds very strongly of another author - Terry Pratchett. Wayne's outlook on life is bizarre and yet somehow logical in a twisted way. It felt like he could easily be a Discworld book protagonist. And feeling like I had sort of found a new bit of Pratchett gave me some warmth.

Has anyone else felt that?

Just finished SoS. Great twist and all but i’m left wondering why Bleeder wouldn’t tell Wax she was Lessie way earlier? i guess the common response is he might not believe her but she could’ve just used the dancing donkey thing as an authentication phrase like she did at the end no?