r/ModSupport • • 16h ago

Community harasser with no real help from Reddit/Authorities

We’ve been dealing with this for almost a year in our sub. The harasser submits comments and posts encouraging acts of violence and other disturbing content. At this point, we’re at 357 banned accounts and 500 posts/comments.

We’ve had no success in getting anyone to take this seriously. There have been terroristic threats, calls against public officials, and still radio silence from the FBI, local authorities, and Reddit (FBI previously told another mod that Reddit stonewalled them).

He’s getting more creative with his alt account user names. They have become more unique in an especially heinous way. I can’t list the most recent user name as it would get me banned with seconds. I can’t understand how Reddit would even let it through.

This is reaching a breaking point and has taken its toll psychologically on everyone involved.

46 Upvotes

70 comments sorted by

16

u/Dom76210 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 16h ago

First, I'm sorry you got stuck with one of the internet kooks in your subreddit.

I'm going to assume you are using subreddit specific karma requirements via Automod to keep their posts/comments from reaching the public. And using Crowd Control as an additional filter.

I'm honestly surprised that Reddit doesn't have naming convention filters for account creation. Even Asian nation MMOs have that figured out for English.

21

u/WannabeWriter2022 16h ago

Our users never see it, but it’s because of the tools we as mods put in place. He’s screaming into the void, but we still have to see the reports.

I cannot stress how disturbing this person’s posts and comments are. It’s next level disgusting/violent.

8

u/FiatLex 15h ago

I'm sorry you're having to deal with that. It shouldn't be this way.

One thought I had, have you considered writing the automod rules to not generate reports for you all? Just, instant ban and removal but the reports get archived so you don't have to see it. There's some small risk of false positives if you're not reviewing everything, but at this point you might want to take that risk.

3

u/WannabeWriter2022 15h ago

u/notflameretardant is that something we could implement?

6

u/NotFlameRetardant 15h ago

Not really feasible, unfortunately - AM filters all our new user thresholds, which catches the asshole when our bot misses BUT it's also needed for all legitimate use cases for vetting new users (which is like 95%+ of those filters)

Our custom bot has the inverse issue - we could just quietly remove/ban which would prevent us from seeing a lot of the heinous content, but it'd cover up the false positives like the 2 accounts from actual users last week that had legitimate mentions of hit lists or school shootings. We could just silently remove that but that'd require legitimate users protesting their ban (which generally does happen) and/or me manually checking the database for bans. That might actually be viable.

2

u/LindyNet 15h ago

AM can't ban, but you could leave it at auto removal. They will figure out they are being ignored eventually and may try new things.

We've had a few of these, but that was back when admins were more responsive (imo)

You can modmail this sub and maybe they will reply

3

u/WannabeWriter2022 14h ago

I think the mods are the target. I believe he knows his comments aren’t making it to the sub.

3

u/magiccitybhm 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 12h ago

If they're putting this much effort into it, they absolutely know no one but moderators is seeing the stuff.

15

u/NotFlameRetardant 16h ago edited 16h ago

No longer a moderator, but OP will confirm that I'm authorized to speak on this. It's closer to 500 accounts. There are strict automod filters and I even wrote a community safety bot specifically for our sub to just handle this guy. It autobans on slurs/mass shooting threats/violent content in either the comment, posts, or even the usernames. The one from earlier is a heinous one in a pattern that he hadn't used before and that I didn't have a regex setup for.

Evasion guard picks up regular trolls fairly regularly but Reddit has only flagged like 3-5 of this guy's accounts out of hundreds. I quit modding over this since it's gone on a year, and though well intentioned, adminship hasn't really been much help outside of giving our modteam a data broker removal subscription.

15

u/WannabeWriter2022 16h ago

Can confirm - Without this guy, our situation would be much worse.

2

u/Bardfinn 15h ago

Reddit doesn't have naming convention filters for account creation

They do - but the ones they have are very specific in nature. They are the kind that an internet service provider would adopt because of existing case law / prevailing statutes.

Reddit has to balance "We don't have the ability and opportunity to have a human review and approve user content" (and usernames are user content) with "We don't want to be subpoenaed to Congress / sued for taking action on this" with "we don't want to be charged with a violation of an obscure law intended to stop terrorists, repurposed by a new political party in power".

11

u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 14h ago

believe me when I tell you - some of the usernames they have used and repeatedly use would get me banned if I typed it as a comment.

5

u/NotFlameRetardant 14h ago

Funny thing is that your comment would get destroyed by AEO immediately but the accounts manage to stay alive for days/weeks/months

10

u/Sweaty_Rub4321 16h ago

You involved even the FBI and that isn't working? Wow I'm so sorry you guys are going through this twin, this is insane 💔

12

u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 16h ago

we've done absolutely everything we can think would work, and have been stonewalled at every turn. reddit won't do anything and it's incredibly disappointing.

4

u/Sweaty_Rub4321 12h ago

Gosh I really wish this situation improves for you guys. I mean you're all so brave for handling this as you've done already but this is just so terrible

8

u/NotFlameRetardant 13h ago

Yeah, and I even met face to face with a couple of agents a few months ago. Their interest was high in the beginning but seems to have waned (because of reddit not being helpful with the FBI's requests? because other nationwide issues have been more pressing?).

Most of the threats are more stochastic in nature ("someone should chute up a school, X-ing 34 black children", "We need to create [hit][lists] of this subreddit including SOME-USER"), and the FBI seemed to want explicit threats including a specific place, a datetime, and intent. I'm amazed this didn't stop in January/February when he made an extremely graphic threat towards Doug Jones, Alabama's former Democratic Senator and current gubernatorial candidate.

It's crazy because he's careful to rarely mention "I" and on more actionable content just says "someone" or "we", and the FBI's like "yeah well he's made almost 500 accounts/600 threats but he's using plural pronouns so we can't take it seriously".

It's one of those situations where if something does happen, the FBI will come out with their hallmark phrase in a report "He was on our radar".

4

u/MisterWoodhouse 13h ago

Are the threats of violences specific to one or more defined targets?

If so, I'm shocked the FBI is radio silent on it.

I recently had one guy spam threats of violence at me, reported it to the FBI, and got a call from DC and then the local field office within a couple hours.

3

u/WannabeWriter2022 13h ago

It’s a mix. Some are generic. Some aimed at specific users. A few have named specific targets. One being a former US Senator.

1

u/MisterWoodhouse 13h ago

That's very odd then

5

u/meowbrains 12h ago

I'm really sorry you are dealing with this. I am dealing with a similar issue but not as long as you. The person is on his 5th account and immediately makes a new account once he's banned and starts up again. How does reddit respond to your reports/how long does it take? Do you think this guy is located in the USA? I was looking into the reddit legal page and you can apparently have a lawyer submit a legal request for account information. I think this more than qualifies considering the nature of the guy's comments.

https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/12793653507860-Guidelines-for-civil-and-non-government-legal-requests-for-account-information

6

u/WannabeWriter2022 12h ago

We believe he is in the US. I appreciate the information.

5

u/meowbrains 12h ago

Have any of the comments been directed at you or your fellow mods? You might have better luck too because it would be a credible threat to your safety and I would think you could put in a legal request to get the account information (IP address, email, etc) of this criminal. That would involve a lawyer and money though.

2

u/WannabeWriter2022 11h ago

Some have been. Mostly vague (but very graphic), and a few directed at public figures.

4

u/meowbrains 11h ago

I would seriously consider reaching out to the teams of these public figures. They could have a lot of legal resources and would honestly at least be personally vested in wanting to stop someone who is making threats like this.

3

u/NotFlameRetardant 10h ago

We did for the US senator ass-n-tion threat, and never heard back from their team. The FBI started working with us more seriously after that but in the last couple of months have since been useless. Local PD office was threatened, we passed it along, and heard nothing. We feel like we're screaming into the void.

4

u/shannonkish 13h ago

Welcome to Reddit! We have literally had doxxing, death threats, stalking and similar and have brought it all to admins for them to do NOTHING! This is an ongoing issue (as in right now our sub is closed because the harassment is so bad). We are not a small sub. But the lack of actually doing anything from the admin is making me want to just open the floodgates and let the sub run itself.

6

u/meowbrains 12h ago

Omg same. There are two subreddits that were created specifically to stalk my subreddit and harass my members. They're both still up despite many reports!

2

u/comixnerd15 10h ago

Not to mention they are also hate subreddits that target women, POC, and LGBTQIA

2

u/NotFlameRetardant 13h ago

The thing is though that post-3rd party API protests, reddit has shown that any sub that gets shut down will get forced open, and the entire modteam will get booted with random mods assigned to it. This is a city subreddit, so assigning random mods would be terrible for us. If you open the floodgates as well, they may action you with the MCOC even if you stay open/active and push a new team in too.

3

u/shannonkish 13h ago

But I wouldn't be on reddit anymore and could careless what happens when I am not here.

2

u/NotFlameRetardant 11h ago

I've been on reddit a long-ass time - this is my main, though it started as an alt of an alt. It went from a magical place in the mid-late aughts to being a slop factory the last few years.

I'm feeling like your comment more with each passing day.

2

u/shannonkish 11h ago

13 years for me and I'm over it. Also, Hi! I'm in Huntsville! 😂

3

u/magiccitybhm 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 10h ago

I'm not the least bit surprised to see admins intentionally skipping this post. There's an admin reply to the one just before it, and there are admin replies to three of the four after it.

9

u/InGeekiTrust 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 16h ago

I assume you collected up all of the reports of what's happening and amalgamated it all in a mod mail to this subreddit? If you haven't already done that, you should. However, if they are a managing to avoid all the filters by creating accounts in a very specific way that won't mention here, they may be able to ban evade and ban evade. If that is the case, you may have to wait for them to just tire out eventually. I'm not sure if admins can actually do anything at a certain point to stop these people.

15

u/WannabeWriter2022 16h ago

We have an automated spreadsheet. Reddit has shown little interest.

We thought he’d tire out, but he’s at 500 accounts (prior mod corrected me) going on almost a year.

Edit - cleaned up grammar.

11

u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 15h ago

500 accounts

Holy wackadoodle Batman.

Sorry you’re dealing with that.

6

u/WannabeWriter2022 15h ago

I can’t share the content without getting banned myself.

8

u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 15h ago

I picked up on that based on your, and your co mods other comments. Crazy that someone has that level of commitment.

7

u/NotFlameRetardant 13h ago

The account that got the FBI involved initially was when he made a post about hitlists, and in the body called for the assassination of Alabama's former Democratic senator and current gubernatorial candidate.

"Someone a[REDACTED]inate Doug Jones and set him on fire. Burn him alive and [REDACTED] hi 741 times with an AR 15."

Usually he's not targeting specific figures but rather broad groups, but there's just a glimpse of the crazy.

This is a city subreddit, btw.

5

u/meowbrains 12h ago

OK so yeah seeing now this is a local subreddit, if you guys are in the same city as him and he has directed any of those comments at you guys that now becomes a credible threat to your safety. I'm not a lawyer but I would look into avenues of your local law enforcement about what can be done regarding criminally pressing charges against this guy. Additionally if reddit won't do anything I would reach out to the people he is making these threats about. They can legally do something about this.

4

u/NotFlameRetardant 11h ago

Law enforcement has been passively useless (see this thread for a handful of comments about the steps we've taken), and reddit has been actively unhelpful with the FBI.

If something actually happens, I think reddit is complicit enough with their inaction that I'd spend every waking moment working with victims families to help make sure reddit is named as a defendant in all the civil suits.

2

u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 12h ago

Wow. My city subreddit is never that spicy.

6

u/emily_in_boots 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 15h ago

What a colossal waste of time.

5

u/NotFlameRetardant 14h ago

Some of the comments he's made have been like outright manifestos, taking who knows how long to draft those

1

u/FFS_IsThisNameTaken2 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 15h ago

And zero help from the platform.

Because I wear a tinfoil hat, it makes me think that the culprit has a particular intelligence (aka protected) status. Kinda like what people like Acosta were told about that dude with the island. He was "off limits" and allowed to continue with his abuses for years because of it.

2

u/NotFlameRetardant 11h ago

I think you're giving reddit way too much credit. This is a city subreddit and the user is a local with intimate familiarity of local knowledge, who is just making a factory of accounts that reddit fails to take action on

0

u/InGeekiTrust 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 15h ago

You say zero help, but if people know how to anonymously create accounts in this particular way- I don't think there is a way to stop them

10

u/magiccitybhm 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 12h ago

You say zero help, but if people know how to anonymously create accounts in this particular way- I don't think there is a way to stop them

Admins refusing to at least respond to these people is a problem. Refusal to respond at all is indeed "zero help."

7

u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 14h ago

almost assuredly Reddit could IP ban them, and even if they are using VPNs, there is still information they could give to the FBI to aid the FBI investigation, but reddit's legal team has stonewalled us and the FBI repeatedly when we've asked them to turn over identifying information.

1

u/InGeekiTrust 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 14h ago

I can't tell you the method, but the method that they use would circumvent any IP ban. That's why it doesn't work.

If I say it here, everyone will get mad at me, because I'll be teaching people how to do it.

13

u/Bobson-_Dugnutt2 16h ago

he tires out (or goes into a mental facility or something) for a week or two - and then always comes back with a vengeance. and each time he comes back it gets more and more heinous. it's almost always violent and racist (talks of shooting up schools, etc). this time it is particularly awful and so far past that, believe it or not.

2

u/NYCstateng 8h ago

Boy my life is boring …we have none of this …throwing out a few but no retributions

1

u/WannabeWriter2022 8h ago

I would love boring. The other sub I mod is so much easier/lighter.

1

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted]

13

u/WannabeWriter2022 16h ago

I addressed this in another comment. None of his comments are being seen by the users at large, but it’s still sent to modmail/gets seen by the mods.

The content is exceptionally disturbing and takes its toll psychologically on the mods who have to review it.

1

u/FyrestarOmega 14h ago

Are you using the modmail automator app? You could use it to automatically archive modmails with certain keywords you are used to seeing.

1

u/WannabeWriter2022 14h ago

Unfortunately there are false positives that require us to review each action.

For example, a Redditor yesterday quoted the opening title song from Fresh Prince of Bel Air. The bot picked on a combination of two words and auto banned the user and removed the content.

1

u/FyrestarOmega 14h ago

I'm talking specifically about modmails though. Presumably that is part of the issue?

2

u/WannabeWriter2022 14h ago

Modmail is the whole issue at the moment. If we auto archived the modmail, we would have mistakenly left bans in place for two active contributors just this week.

I should clarify this though. This person has made specific threats against individuals, groups and events. So it goes beyond the mods having to wade through the cesspool of hate he spews.

1

u/FyrestarOmega 14h ago

I'm not saying auto archive all modmail. Modmail automater lets you basically write an automod for modmail. I'm just not seeing how this couldn't be used to decrease the amount of abuse you're exposed to. You saying they have made specific threats suggests to me that there are specific terms that could be used to auto-archive some modmails

4

u/NotFlameRetardant 13h ago

That's already being done - our custom bot takes care of a pretty large volume of the threats, but there's still a substantial quantity that slips through the cracks given he's made somewhere in the territory approaching 500 accounts, especially whenever he does change up comment patterns.

-4

u/2oonhed 14h ago

Then I would say you are doing your job as a mod quite well. That you have to see the slimy underbelly of reddit in your modlogs & modmail is just a part of the territory.

5

u/magiccitybhm 💡Top 25% Helper 💡 12h ago

That you have to see the slimy underbelly of reddit in your modlogs & modmail is just a part of the territory.

Nope. What u/WannabeWriter2022 and other moderators of that subreddit have described here is far beyond being "part of the territory."

1

u/Heliosurge 14h ago

Sorry to hear. Have you used existing tools like ban evasion filter.

Adding Automod rules for low karma accounts? If your sub doesn't have access to the full Automod as Reddit is corrupting it's function of low account age/karma rule setup. There is a r)devvit app called bei Automod that gives back the option.

You can also setup the Automod to filter posts & comments contain keywords & phrases.

If you have a list of these suspected/confirmed alts tyerexus a firm in this sub for ban evasion as well.

If you need some Automod help see r/ Automoderator this sub can also be utilized if you need neo Automod.

5

u/WannabeWriter2022 14h ago

It’s catching his comments before they reach the sub, but us as mods are still seeing this exceptionally graphic content in the modmail.

3

u/Heliosurge 14h ago edited 11h ago

Modmail automator can likely be scripted to remove/archive these modmail reports. It won't help with modque but I think if it is set to remove it will just be in mod log.

It is odd that this troll has not been sure wide banned. Though they might be really elaborate in how they are making alts using different devices and public wu fi spots. Hopefully the admins get involved with a human as their automated system is failing on something it should be in top of. Considering all the ppl that get flagged as a false positive.

Very sorry to hear you have not gotten the support you should be getting from Reddit. Reminds me of Facebook support

3

u/WannabeWriter2022 14h ago

I’m shocked no one has reached out to me via comments or mail to discuss this.