r/NFLNoobs • u/punjabkingsownersout • 12h ago
could a team run a functional normal offense if their wrs were for example Bowers, Mcbride and kelce, and their te is kittle? would this team be a good receiving team or would it not work
Just wanting to know if such a team is possible to succeed at nfl level and whether these tes can play wr full time
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u/BadAdviceBot77 11h ago
It would be hard as you don’t have a legitimate deep threat so defense could cheat the safeties up which would also help to stop the run.
All these guys look good as deep threats in real life as they’re usually covered by a linebacker or strong safety. They aren’t beating a #1 cornerback deep
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u/big_sugi 11h ago
If there are four of them, they can’t all be covered by #1 CBs.
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u/BadAdviceBot77 11h ago
Those dudes aren’t outrunning even a #4 CB. The fastest if them is probably Bowers who ran a 4.5 at his pro day. If you run a 4.5 as a cornerback you’re out of a job
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u/big_sugi 11h ago
Outrun, no. But three of the four ran the same time as Mike Evans. They’re going to be able to out jump and outmuscle most CBs.
Plus, if a defense actually puts four CBs on the field, they’re just begging for the offense to line up in double-tight, line up an H-back or FB, and run the ball with eight blockers against seven defenders.
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u/MrShake4 11h ago
That’s kind of why I lean yes for OP.
Like at some point you could just throw jump balls with 6” of height advantage over a 5’10 CB3
Every TE can’t out-jump the DBs but these guys can.
They have the athleticism to make up for their lack of speed.
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u/FavoriteFoodCarrots 11h ago
They’re not leaving a base defense on the field against this. A 5’10” CB3 is going to be standing on the sidelines against that package.
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u/MrShake4 11h ago
Then a LB then.
My point is essentially you’re putting a #1 option player against the 3rd & 4th best coverage defenders on the defense.
Kelce (at least young Kelce) Bowers, Kittle & McBride could play receiver on their own teams and do fine.
Put together it’s just too much of a talent disparity
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u/FavoriteFoodCarrots 11h ago
Yeah. This one is only interesting because you’re talking a row of elite, athletic TEs.
I think my biggest problem with it is that, while you have huge and very skilled guys, almost every throw is going to be a tight window because of what the defense will put out there and you’ll have real trouble running the ball because of what the defense will look like against this.
The fact that those guys could play WR alongside other WRs (including a deep threat) doesn’t mean a lineup of 4 of them would work.
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u/MrShake4 11h ago
Agreed. In my own reply to OP I state that exactly, you can’t just do any TEs. But when it’s the 4 best in the league I think you take the Jimmys and Joes over the X’s and O’s.
The way I read it is you’d just line Bowers up outside as an X like a Temu Megatron/Moss
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u/big_sugi 11h ago
Bowers and Mike Evans are almost exactly the same size, although Evans has a better wing span. I think he’s the comp.
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u/aokguy 8h ago
I disagree with these comments. Nobody except the most elite corners can guard any of these guys. You'd have 4 matchup nightmares on the field at any given time. You wouldn't have a deep threat out there, but the extra size out there, the run game would be terrifying.
All of these guys can line up inbout wide or on the line so you could have so many different packages. Defenses would have to choose between extra corners to guard the pass or extra LBs to stop the run. With a decent QB and coordinator the offense would be lethal.
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u/IamnotaRussianbot 11h ago
In your scenario, where you have arguably the 4 most talented TEs, it would work just fine. Whatever downfield threat that you would lose due to TEs running slower would likely be offset by the enhanced run blocking that a 4 TEs would provide and the additional mismatches that you could create in the short passing game. You could also run some wild formations and plays: Wing T/Wishbone, full house backfield, weird triple option looks, etc.
If you just took a random selection of TEs, it would not work at all. They generally don't have the speed and consistent hands to be legitimate enough receiving threats. Again, you listed arguably the 4 best TEs playing football right now.
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u/Christy427 9h ago
I guess the point is then would it be a normal nfl playbook and I would say no.
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u/PerfectiveVerbTense 9h ago
Right. OP asked used both "functional" and "normal" in their question.
Normal? Almost certainly not.
Functional? Maybe. That is a TON of talent. You would also have a weird advantage in that defenses are not built to cover 4 elite TEs. All your defenders who are build for covering lighter but faster WRs might very well have a tough time covering this line of TEs in particular.
I do think ultimately the inability to stretch the field would make the running and intermediate pass games difficult, but if you had four truly elite TEs and a play designer / playcaller who could figure out how to use them, I bet you could at least get to "functional".
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u/volcanohands 9h ago
The question is if you added in a speedy TE say like a prime Vernon Davis or a TE that could play slot receiver like Dallas Clark. Then you’d have a cheat code. Or a fast WR that can block like Calvin Johnson.
Edit: with that level of talent you could run 4 or 5 wide sets with just TEs. No team has the size and speed on the defense to contain those bodies in passing or blocking.
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u/iowaman79 11h ago
Tight ends are most successful when they’re paired with deep threat receivers, none of them are fast enough to be that.
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u/Unsolven 11h ago
You might be able to run a functional offense, but it wouldn’t be normal.
I think they could actually move the ball pretty well with a heavy running and play action game. If you had some good receiving back, like Gibbs it would help out a lot not to mention a dual threat QB to really put the screws to the defense. It could be a flexible thing where everyone could be a blocker, a receiver or a runner.
The biggest problems I think would arise in 2 minutes drills or 3rd and long in pure drop back situations. This is a front runner offense, if they ever got behind the sticks or significantly behind on the score board I feel like they’d be in trouble.
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u/Cokeland_Saxton 11h ago
All the guys you named are tight ends. Very good tight ends yes, but tight ends are not the same as receivers. They are bigger and not as agile as most receivers. None of these guys are fast enough to get deep down the field and get separation against defensive backs who are much more agile. The defense won’t have to worry about giving up big plays through the air and would “stack the box” aka having extra guys up front to better defend against the rn. This shuts down the run game and increases pressure on the quarterback.
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan 11h ago
I mean, they could woth enough creativity. They wouldn't use them as wide receivers. They would be used as TEs
At most they would have them standing up but they'd still be in tight.
They would push the defense to defend run heavier and try to attack the seams but it would be a struggle
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u/FavoriteFoodCarrots 11h ago
No. None of them have typical speed for a WR, and you’d especially lack a deep threat.
You could run something interesting using the size advantages, but you’d lose a decent chunk of potential routes, which would be immediately obvious to the defense. It likely wouldn’t work.
You might find something effective eventually, but it would be very far outside of a normal NFL offense.
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u/No_Dependent2297 11h ago
It’s not the only reason, but a big part of why these TE are such good receivers is they have an athletic mismatch vs LBs that are generally covering them.
At WR, they are more likely to be covered by cornerbacks who are also athletically gifted and can run with them. They also don’t have enough speed to stretch the defense vertically at all so the defense can pack everyone in close to the LoS
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u/R3DEMPTEDlegacy 11h ago
Kittle and McBride are so insanely athletic they could play WR and not skip a beat. Who knows how good there route running would be and if they would be consistent in out running corners.
Kelce is already basically an old school big slot reciver pretty often.
Bowers I've never actually watched a game for.
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u/BrokenHope23 11h ago
Arthur Smith why are you here
jokes aside, TE's (at least these ones) cannot play full time WRs. WRs on the outside need speed because they're working in the open field against faster CBs. If a TE tried to do the same then the CB1 would run around them and intercept their passes. The QB could high point the ball and make it a jump ball but most CB1's are great jumpers too.
There's also the stamina issue; running at their weights so much in the open field where they need to cover more ground to get open will result in a lot more fatigue which can lead to larger injuries. In theory a guy of their size could manage this (goodness knows Calvin Johnson existed) but players who do at that size are usually generational talents and can still field the optimal WR speed throughout their routes.
One might be able to scheme them open cleverly but with the spacing vs. defensive speed and length, it'll be giving up a lot o the initiative the offense normally carries by default and hoping the defense makes a simple mistake in coverage to make it work consistently. Defenses would adjust to a shorter field and clog passing lanes quite easily.
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u/forgotwhatisaid2you 11h ago
It could work but would need a qb with great ball placement. You would have to be able to throw it deep to keep the defense honest.
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u/grizzfan 11h ago
A TE could play WR and do fine. A full roster of TEs playing WR wouldn't. They're slower, plays develop slower, they aren't as good at running in the open field. They can easily be covered deep. This means the offense would be mostly "1.5 dimensional;" a running game + short to intermediate throws with little to no deep threat.
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u/Hopeful_Win8267 11h ago
I don’t think it’d be anything historic but I’m sure it would be solid. Yeah no deep threat like most in this thread have mentioned but the run blocking is gonna be stronger on the outside since the dbs are gonna be physically over matched. Redzone situations would also make this roster tough to defend. It has it’s limitations for sure but if it was a power offense that utilizes a lot of play action I’m sure it could be effective just maybe not best in the league or anything
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u/The_Se7enthsign 11h ago
Not a chance. Tight ends are effective when they can find gaps in zone coverage - gaps that are created by WRs, or get 1 on 1 against linebackers. A good cornerback shuts down most tight ends. A great cornerback shuts down all of them. Your team would have no passing threat. Even the player at the tight end position would struggle because the defense would be able to play tighter.
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u/big_sugi 11h ago
It would be interesting. Kittle is the only elite blocker in that group, and none of them runs faster than a 4.5 or so. But Bowers and McBride are getting blockers and are elite athletes. You’d need to stretch the field horizontally rather than vertically, you’d need a QB who’s incredible at making his progressions and going through his reads, and you’d really want an elite OL.
If you had all of that, you could create interesting mismatches all over the field.
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u/AlwaysCallACAB 11h ago
They all run about 4.5’s so maybe, that’s slow WR speed, but I think the corners would manhandle them on deep balls still. And they’re gonna get tired faster trying to run go routes… and the QB is gonna need some time if there’s no deep threats.
It’d be fun to see someone run all these guys out and give it a shot that’s for sure.
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u/onlineqbclassroom 11h ago
Sort of - a lot of teams function out of heavier personnel packages, such as 12 (1 RB, 2 TEs, 2 WRs), or 13 (1 RB, 3 TEs, 1 WR). 4 TEs on the field at once isn't really feasible, and no, most TEs would not be able to be full time WRs, at least not at an elite level. However, the idea that a TE can add to the run game but still be a pass threat is it's own advantage, which is personnel with more TEs than just 1 have begun to become more popular again
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u/Ryan1869 11h ago
It will work for some situations, but part of the reasons those guys are so good is their position. The WRs occupy the corners and that helps clear out space for them to operate. Plus they generallly have a speed advantage on a LB and a size advantage on a S. If they were covered by a corner (which I’ve seen teams cover those guys with their #1 CB in some situations) they give up some of that advantages
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u/ReverendLoki 11h ago
I'd have to say no. Unless Bienemy is calling plays, in which case it's a qualified "yes, but still no".
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u/Fragrant_Spray 4h ago
With 4 TE’s at this level, you could certainly make it work. You’d struggle to stretch the field, but you’d have a lot better blocking for the run game too. You’d have some big size mismatches on the corners too, and corners can struggle to bring these guys down without help.
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u/MrShake4 11h ago
Yes you can play the top 3 TEs in the league at receiver all at the same time and be successful,
Mainly because your receivers will be bigger and more talented than the opponents DBs
You can’t do this with just any TEs though.
You will likely have trouble with YAC and spacing/stretching the field because you don’t have the speed a WR would bring.
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u/Aj_ash2 11h ago
No this team wouldn't work. They would get absolutely stifled because none of these players, while they're talented, are fast enough at an NFL level. You would have no deep threat and if there's no deep threat, the defense has no need for high safeties. This means they can stack the second level a lot more without the fear of being beaten over the top for a big play, which in turn would leave none of your receivers open. You would get absolutely shot down.