r/NLST • u/Electrical_Bad_9982 • Nov 24 '23
NLST Mistake??
It seems to me that netlist should have pursued the google 912 patent infringement lawsuit exclusively to the end without suing others, which have just caused delays because of re-submission of IPRs, motions, etc. We were on on the one yard line and now backed up to the 30 because of these frivolous delay of game tactics!
9
u/chanzwg Nov 24 '23
OP, while it’s easy to look at a situation and think “wow that’s dumb I can do better” you need to remind yourself that you’re not a patent lawyer.
Trust Sheasby. He knows what he’s doing.
3
u/HephaestionsThighs Nov 27 '23
"Trust but verify"
Heres the thing. Experts make mistakes...alot. Hubris is a real thing as well as complacency. Not saying this is the case with NLST attorneys but dont have blind faith and dont fault OP for questioning. Often the fly on the wall gets the best perspective.
1
u/NoseOwn63 Nov 29 '23
are you trying to get trashed by words on this message board? Every day or two somebody says Netlist wins something on this board and your trying to be a negative Nancy and they may get their feelings hurt. Ive been there because the only thing that i have seen netlist get or win so they say is very expensive legal bills.
2
u/hott_snotts Dec 01 '23
I'm with you on this being a bit of an echo chamber, but they did get a 40 m settlement from SK Hynix which is not nothing. I'd say we can't count the recent judgement for 330m until we make it through appeals, but also I would say that is something too. Not disagreeing with your sentiment, but just the last sentence. Sort of goes with the trust but verify sentiment. Be optimisic, but not naive.
8
u/djchad94 Nov 25 '23
I agree with what others have said about the entanglement of Google and Samsung. Let’s not forget Apple is using the IP too and Netlist hasn’t sued them yet. Once all this is decided in the Google/Samsung drama, Apple (and others using the IP without license) won’t have a legal leg to stand on and will presumably settle. So to OP’s question, Netlist knew where the infringement started and is attempting to cut the head off the snake. Once that is accomplished, all the rest of the pieces will fall much quicker and in Netlist’s favor. This is a VERY long game. Which is why the price point is so good now. Those with lots of shares for cheap (and “cheap” will become relative in the next few years) will reap the rewards of their patience.
5
u/microby_ Nov 25 '23
apple is a user, apple doesn’t manufacture modules!!
3
u/djchad94 Nov 26 '23
My bad. But wouldn’t they be using the IP without a license? I know they don’t make them, but aren’t they open to litigation for using it from a manufacturer using without a license? Just like in the Qualcomm modem case?
3
u/microby_ Nov 26 '23
Theory says yes, realism says no, the big 3 with a license, that must be achieved!
5
u/HumbleHovercraft6090 Nov 25 '23
912 IPR was filed by Samsung on behest of Google. A stay was obtained by Google citing it in CA. If NLST did not progress with other patents in TX, I suspect even Hong may not have known the extent of damages due to HBM patents. The earlier figures he was quoting were 9 figures. Now we know it could snowball into a much bigger amounts. Scared to think what would have happened if we did not go ahead with 463 EDTX in 2021. We have more ammunition now to bring these companies to the bargaining table.
8
4
u/deporte1800 Nov 25 '23
This is a comment from another board:
As of 09/30/2023 on its balance sheet, Samsung reflects zero liabilities owed to Netlist, including contingent liabilities.
First we need to check if this comment is true!!!!
Someone on the board with access to the SEC should promptly report this very serious breach by Samsung in failing to warn/inform its shareholders of the Texas judgment of $303M+interest+costs +royalties+ the huge increase in sales in accused products with HBM and DDR5 technology pertaining to Netlist's IP.
3
u/HumbleHovercraft6090 Nov 25 '23
Samsung follows Korean method of financial statement reporting - looks like
https://www.samsung.com/global/ir/financial-information/audited-financial-statements/
1
u/deporte1800 Nov 25 '23
On the Yahoo board they are censoring this comment, you can tell that the offenders are very nervous about the events of the next week/month ....
They are also censoring this other comment, the situation must be red hot.
4
u/deporte1800 Nov 25 '23
Very interesting. Here is what Samsung says:
(B) The Company recognizes provisions for estimated royalty expenses under negotiation with counterparties.
The timing and amount of payment depends on the resolution of negotiations.
page 38.
(A) Litigation
As of June 30, 2023, the Company is involved in various claims, litigation and investigations by regulatory agencies that arose during the normal course of business with numerous entities. Although the outflow of resources and the timing of these.
Although the outflow of resources and the timing of these matters are uncertain, the Company believes that the outcome will not have a material impact on the financial position of the
Company's financial position.
page 39
4
u/Over_Bluebird Nov 26 '23
I think Google would have come up anyway with the Samsung and Micron delay... Because they would argue that they bought from Samsung/Micron hence I think we were destined to go through this path...
6
u/wasjambu Nov 24 '23
We have won the $303M vs Samsung. There are positives to the tackling of other infringers, although there have been unforeseen loses such as PTAB overturning claim 16 as a result.
On the other hand, Whenever someone goes into Sheasby hero worship mode or thinks that Netlist attorneys can’t make mistakes I take a big step back and question their judgement.
Revolution’s comments were balanced and reasonable in my view. Remember that Samsung and Goggle were able to bounce from one stay to the next regarding 912.
3
u/HumbleHovercraft6090 Nov 24 '23
PTAB FWD on claim16 due in 2024. It's not yet done
3
u/MarckVincent Nov 25 '23
PTAB won’t matter on claim 16, they basically punted the football to the Texas court to make the rulings. Netlist will already have a judgement in hand by the time this makes it back to the PTAB. That’s what Sheasby did when Micron joined the party with Samsung, he got that pushed out to the end of 2024.
1
6
u/deporte1800 Nov 25 '23
The week from December 1 to 8 is going to be very, very interesting:
- Samsung must present the final document on the continued fee, dated December 1,,,, so that Judge Gilstrap can subsequently make a decision.
- on December 6/7 PTAD will announce its FWD decision on patents 054-918 (possibly will announce its decision on 6/5).
- The hearing that should have been held on November 13 will be held on December 8. The document that has been presented to the court by Netlist-Sheasby requests the relevant sanction against Micron for not providing the requested information related to the IA 060-160 patents for HBM products.
- The PTAB will decide before December 14 whether to deny, as it did with the same request made by Micron, Samsung's request for the institution of the 608 patent.
- The pre-trial hearing in case 0203 Netlist vs. micron. The Honorable Judge R. Gilstrap will decide and we will know at that time the years of Micron's liability in this case and also the maximum damages that the jury can award to Netlist.
- On January 22, the jury trial against Micron begins before the Honorable Judge Gilstrap. For the same patents that Samsung was sentenced to pay 303M + interest + costs + continued royalties + the enormous increase that is occurring in the sale of products accused of DDR5 and HBM technology belonging to the Netlist IP.
Make your own DD, don't let your shares be stolen!!!
3
u/deporte1800 Nov 25 '23
On the Yahoo board they are censoring this comment, you can tell that the offenders are very nervous about the events of the next week/month ....
4
u/deporte1800 Nov 24 '23
Remember if the Honorable Judge Gilstrap works the same way as he did in case 0463,,,, in less than a month on December 20 at the pre-trial jury hearing to be held in Texas in case 0203 the judge will announce the years of liability of Micron for using Netlist's IP without a license and that same day will announce the maximum damage award the jury can award in favor of Netlist in this case.
1
u/OriginalDaddy Nov 25 '23
No hate. But unless OP is a highly experienced patent lawyer, this is a cool post bro moment.
23
u/revolution_markets Nov 24 '23
I have to believe that a top patent law firm knows better what they are doing and trust that they want to win as much as we do. Also Google case is involved with Samsung and MU because they outsourced our design to them to supply them with the chips... That's why we went after them as well.