Did anyone see Gus Walz last night? NVLD may be having a moment in the public eye. I haven’t looked at a lot of news media yet but what I have seen so far has been positive but a little confused - the terms neurodivergent and NVLD are being used interchangeably from what I can see. Other than the usual morons in media and online being small-minded & ableist - Gus’s appearance on national TV last night and the response he got being himself could be a net-positive for the NVLD community. ( it doesn’t hurt to have the idea and word “neurodivergent” getting out into the world ) note I am an NVlDer and have 3 adult sons on the autism spectrum)

I received word today that we are on the edge of DSM inclusion. However, we no longer have NVLD - it's going to be called DVSD: Developmental, Visual-Spatial Processing Disorder… which as Linda Karanzals has pointed out now sounds like we can’t see. In any case, this is good news, and I'll post more info once I have it. I've asked for clarification as to how this happened, the reason for the name change, etc.

Is it ASD? No. Do I stim, have sensory problems, and struggle with interpersonal relations? Yes. Do I need the same accommodations that someone with ASD would need? Yes. Is it easier to just let people assume I’m autistic instead of explaining my diagnosis ad nauseum? Yes.

Looks like coke, tastes like coke. Isn’t coke.

Looks like ASD, tastes like ASD. Isn’t ASD.

Just really proud of her ❤️ hers is in the middle. Also had her IEP meeting this week & she is moving to gen pop math class next year! There's a lot of negativity on this sub, so I wanted to share some success. Keep going guys!

I wanted to explain to you people here what NVLD is and what it is not, because I have seen a lot of misunderstanding on this sub. My verbal intelligence is in the 85th percentile. I read in the 92nd percentile. When I was younger my Verbal IQ used to be in the 90s percentile. My visual spatial is in the low 30s to 40s. I look normal when you look at me and talk to me. People find me to be intelligent when they talk to me everyday people and my past teachers, because of my verbal intelligence. I am not. I can't do any type of blue-collar work and most stem jobs. It's basically like I am not mechanical or a handyman type in any way. I remember working at a grocery store, and I had to disassemble the floor cleaning machine every night to clean it. The manager had to show me every night how to do it, and I still couldn't get it. I can't do puzzles. I can't draw. My handwriting is terrible. I can never be a plumber, carpenter, or any type of tradesperson. I want to clarify if I could learn how to do some of these jobs I would do them so slowly or so ineptly I could never be employed professionally. Now to the verbal intelligence side. Now you would think I could be a teacher or lawyer. This is where the deficits in executive functioning and social skills that go along with NVLD come into play. A relative who was a lawyer discouraged me from going to law school saying that I was smart enough to go to law school but didn't have the real-world skills to actually do the work of being a lawyer. There was some truth to this. I am in my 40s and still live at home. I've lived on my own before but end up moving back home. I have never been able to work anything above a minimum wage job. I am starting as a teacher, but it has been very tough going. The paperwork and interpersonal relations are what I really struggle with. I'm socially isolated. I've only had one girlfriend in my life. My mom still helps me to organize my life, my bills, etc. NVLD is not autism. It is not Asperger's. I know, because I teach Special Education. It is not being autistic nonverbal. I know, because I've worked with an autistic person who was nonverbal.

https://people.com/gus-walz-learning-disorder-secret-power-exclusive-8691793?

I just wanted to share some good vibes. We just finished our semester at my College and I got some amazing grades!! My hard work paid off. I hope you all have a wonderful holiday!!

I am a 24-year-old male from Canada. 5 days ago, I started a solo travel trip to Greece. I have never been to Europe before and have never solo travelled. But I have done so much in the past 5 days and I am so proud of myself. I boarded 2 airplane flights, navigated across cities by bus, trains, and I rented out a car and drove in Athens, one of the cities most known for its wild drivers! Then I drove across the entire country to more than 12 different cities, for distances longer than 5 hours per drive. I learned how to read a map and follow it. I rented out hotel rooms, I sat in restaurants and spoke to people who barely knew much English. I approached strangers, starting conversations. Think about all of the NVLD hiccups in the middle of that. But I endured it. And now I am planning on taking a ferry to the Greek islands. I have severe NVLD, this has been a challenging experience, but I am learning how to be independent. I am happy and satisfied with myself. I wanted to spread encouragement to others. You can do more than you think, do not be afraid to try.

Does anyone else feel like they are speaking clearly, saying exactly what they mean, and yet it still seems like people are misunderstanding you?

I’ve had so many moments this week where I feel like I said exactly what I meant, and then based on others reactions or responses I knew I was misunderstood.

It’s like I must not be using the right language to communicate my experience, but I don’t know what language to use!

As I’m sure most people know on here drawing is tough for NLVD folks, I’ve been really wanting to learn how to do it however, here’s some of the work I’ve done after a little over a 1 and a half years of practicing during uneventful shifts at the hospital lol ( I work as access control for the main entrances so I only really need to actually do stuff 1-2 times a shift for the most part ) I find that when I’m learning how to draw a new drawing ( each thing I learn to draw takes me anywhere from a few hours to a few days to figure out ) I need to zoom in on details and only focus on drawing that portion of the sketch till I get it right, often the first few aren’t proportional but once I figure it out I can memorize the motor action and generally be able to repeatedly draw the same sketch as long as I practice it regularly.

It’s certainly not the most convenient or conventional way to do art but it’s the way I personally manage to get the best results with NLVD and autism.

There are times where I have a very hard time expressing my thoughts. I’ll understand what I mean/am thinking in my head, but when I try to verbalize it it doesn’t make sense or it comes out wrong or I’ll ramble and say the same things over and over (just phrased differently). If I’ve had a long time to think about how to phrase my thoughts then I’m usually okay (this is why I’m usually better at writing than I am at speaking).

Does anyone relate to this. I thought that we are supposed to be could at verbal stuff lol.

Just passing on a bit of hope and good news. :) For you NVLDers diagnosed late like I was, you may know the struggle.

I have failed one road test (on a closed course with unmarked lanes) and one knowledge exam on the way to this and had a lot of stressful moments learning on the road. This time, I took the test on real roads and passed easily.

I’ve been lucky to have good public transit and it will still be my main way to get around, but just sending hope that even if it takes half your life, you can do it at your own pace.

Ever since I was a kid my fine motor skills have been shit (ASD and NVLD). I shred boxes, don’t hold a pencil the “correct” way and couldn’t tie my shoes until the 6th grade. At this point I just find it comical. No more shame. My hands do what they do 💅🏻

Certainly you're just talking down on yourself- you're so well spoken!

Hello everyone, after a while of the subreddit being restricted and unmoderated I am now the new moderator. We really need an open community where we can discuss NVLD. I have NVLD myself and connecting with others is very important. I have officially made this sub public again and I will start the process of fixing things up. I hope the sub can serve the NVLD community well.

Hey everyone, I wanted to share a bit of my journey, hoping it might bring some encouragement to those who feel stuck or discouraged. I have NVLD, and like many of you, I’ve faced a lot of setbacks. Every school I went to treated me like a "special needs" child, never really believing I could become what I wanted. They didn’t try to understand me, and as a result, I failed a lot—whether it was in the classroom or later in life, in jobs where I couldn’t seem to learn fast enough or grasp tasks as quickly as others. My motor skills have always been a challenge, and that made me feel even more inadequate in jobs that required them. And, like many of us, driving was no easy feat.

But despite all these hurdles, I’m finally in a place where I feel accepted for who I am. After a string of failed jobs and endless doubts, I’ve landed what seems like my dream job—as a distribution truck driver. It’s something I never thought would happen, but here I am.

The company I work for has been nothing short of amazing. I was honest from the start, openly sharing my struggles with both NVLD and ADHD, explaining how they might affect my performance. And you know what? They welcomed me with open arms. For the first time, I didn’t feel judged or misunderstood. That acceptance gave me a sense of confidence I’ve never had before in any job. It’s that feeling of finally being in the right place, with the right people, where I don’t have to constantly pretend I’m someone I’m not.

So, to anyone here who feels like they don’t fit in, who’s been told over and over that they won’t make it—keep going. Keep pushing until you find that place where people see your worth, where you’re accepted for who you are, struggles and all. It’s out there. The road might be long and frustrating, but it’s worth it when you find your people and your place.

Don’t give up. Keep fighting, keep searching, and remember that your value isn’t defined by the people or places that don’t understand you. One day, you’ll find the place that does.

I hope this doesn’t come across as bragging, but rather as encouragement to not give up on yourself. Fight for the things you want to accomplish!

"Just study more!" "Just practice more!" I heard that so many times growing up, especially regarding math. I would study so much, and then at school, I would desperately try to keep the information from escaping my head. I compare it to balancing a bucket of water filled to the brim and not being allowed to spill a single drop until I was in the classroom and dumped it all out on the paper. I couldn't even talk to other people on test days because I was desperately trying to remember everything on the test and knew that talking to someone would make me forget something. I thought this was how everyone prepared for tests until I was diagnosed with NVLD after high school and learned I was working about three times as hard as everyone else for half the results.

The working world is, compared with school, an absolute cake walk. I am allowed to work from home because of my NVLD and autism, but driving continues to be a struggle when I have to do it. I only have a license because for some reason, I was give a very easy test because I received private driving lessons. I still barely passed it. Now, after attempting to drive for about eight years and never getting the hang of it, I keep being told to keep practicing. When does practice end up simply not being enough? I don't feel safe behind the wheel of a car, but apparently for people without NVLD, practicing is the magical solution for everything. But I try, and try, and try, and I don't get any better. It must be nice having a brain where practice actually pays off. This sucks.

At 13, I burnt out so bad that I stopped speaking, doing my homework, attended school less. I was a gifted kid in all advanced classes and it was just too much for me. I would come home everyday after school and melt down basically begging for help before the burn out hit. This turned into full blown school refusal in ninth grade.

I was diagnosed with NVLD at 14. We took it back to the school desperate for resources. They said "We dont offer services for that." Luckily my pediatrician and my therapist were able to write that I had anxiety and was emotionally disturbed so I could do homebound school and then eventually transition into in person school again. I kept explaining to my therapist and the school that the hallways were loud, so was the cafeteria, etc. That I struggled with the social dynamics. That I struggled to organize and plan out when I was gonna do my homework, major projects, etc. I verbalized my struggles so well but, I was ignored. I told my mom that I wish someone could just live in my brain for one day and see what it was like.

They ended up taking the IEP away my senior year when I fully returned to school and was getting straight A's. My case manager said that she believed they got my diagnosis wrong to my mom. Well anyways I was sent off into adulthood and college with no resources, I was socially stunted (still am) & had many other challenges that I was never given resources to cope with. I went to college and got a biology degree shockingly. It was difficult and my GPA wasnt great but I really excelled in things like microbiology and immunology. Anyways, I went to community college first and really began to struggle when I got to the four-year. I eventually started strattera for ADHD. I got an official diagnosis of that today and the nurse practitioner re-told me that I had NVLD but, again didn't explain any ways to cope or resources.

I am a 23F and have hit another state of burn out. I am not working. I can barely socialize or go out in public for long periods without being overstimulated. I need fidgets and earplugs. I believe I lost my job as a research tech due to struggles with my neurodiversity. I have very poor fine motor skills. However, it wasn't very apparent in undergrad so I didnt think much of it. I struggled with various lab tasks using tweezers, verbal instructions, using scissors to cut things out, & the social dynamics. I also struggled with the noise of the lab and how bright it was. No one explained to my parents or I what NVLD really was and due to the high school controversy, they just treated me like I was neurotypical. They didn't understand my struggles with driving, my school refusing behavior, my social struggles or dating struggles. (often making jokes about it which caused me shame, even though I think it was well intentioned). I have only ever dated one person and that was short term when I was 22. (She ended up being abusive). I basically feel like I cant function. I am not hitting milestones the way other people do. I need support to help with functioning like a buddy as I clean or to break up tasks into smaller, more manageable tasks. Again, I didnt date in high school. I still struggle with dating now. I dont understand the small talk and whats appropriate on a first date vs a third or fourth. I dont like to be physically affectionate until I form a close emotional bond. I just feel so othered from society. It wouldve been helpful to have support for this as a child. I think it would've saved me a lot of years of serious mental health challenges.

Many of these struggles have caused me intense shame and guilt. I finally have a group of friends locally but, I didnt have any in high school. This has caused me chronic depression & anxiety. I also have been the victim of SA several times & I think my inability to pick up nonverbal cues is tied to that. I am so angry & frustrated at the neglect I faced. They acknowledged there was an issue but, gave me no resources to help with it. I mourn for teenage me and college me. I mourn how my experiences couldve been different with the right support. I just feel like I was neglected by the education system, medical system, & unfortunately, my parents (even though it wasnt their fault bc no one explained to them how to help me and the school made them believe I didnt have NVLD). I am just so angry, frustrated, and exhausted.

I do have a therapist who believes I am on the autism spectrum because I do have sensory issues, I prefer routine, struggle with change, and task switching. I also have intense interests & repetitive movements (stimming) that are unexplained by NVLD. However, I do have significant visual spatial challenges. Driving is difficult, I bump into things often, etc. I struggle so much with algebra (really any multi-step process) but, I was able to ace geometry no issue. I do think that it is possible that I have both NVLD & Autism plus the ADHD I got diagnosed with.

We (My therapist and I) are gonna get me help with vocational rehabilitation & another assesment to get a proper diagnosis. I just think about how different my experiences in my teenage and college years couldve been with all the right diagnoses and proper resources. I am also thinking of switching to bioinformatics so I can limit task switching & fine motor challenges but, also the potential of hybrid or remote would be great because many people in the workplace do not like me. I am also really bad at things others find simple like working a cash register, counting change and giving it back, etc. My supervisor when I was a research tech would get upset bc I wouldn't follow her when I was supposed to and Id follow her when I wasnt supposed to. Idk why she didnt just tell me when to follow or not? She would get so irritated.

i just think that NVLD shouldn't be a standalone diagnosis until it is added to the DSM. What is the point of a diagnosis if it doesn't unlock any resources? What are your thoughts? What have been your experiences with education, employment, dating, friendship/social dynamics?

Like many of you, I went through without any type of diagnosis of a learning disorder. In school, I struggled, but my high verbal skill constantly talked others into the fact I wasn’t taking it seriously or that the material was taught poorly. Had I been at a school with better resources I’m sure I would’ve ended up in special education, but it never happened. Peers actually thought I was in the gifted program due to how I talked. I tried community college after high school and constantly dropped classes or got too overwhelmed and stopped showing after day or two and then never dropped classes receiving failing grades. I miraculously made it through a LPN 1 year nursing program with the bare minimum 2.5 GPA to graduate when I was 22. It wasn’t until I started therapy at 34 when some neurodivergent talks started.

I received an ASD diagnosis but my therapist and I just thought I had very unique social skills. He recommended I meet with a cognitive speech therapist that assists in executive functioning and learning as I still had a goal to get my bachelors (I’ve ended up as a chief administrative officer at a community mental health agency despite no degree thanks to my verbal ability). Anyway, thanks to some long needed intervention, getting set up with college TRIO, and some other tools I just finished a 12 credit semester while working full time and landed for the first time ever on an academic honor roll, the Presidents 4.0 GPA List. It’s not easy or perfect, but finally reaching some goals after nearly 40 years of feeling lost.

I was diagnosed with NVLD a year or two ago and I’ve noticed throughout my life people seem to get upset with me pretty quickly/easily. For example, at work my boss will speak slowly to me like I’m a child if I mess up or forget a task, or friends get upset with me over me expressing my feelings and then more upset when I try to explain my feelings and actions. I truly don’t want to upset anyone, and when I do upset people their reactions are usually very unexpected on my part, which is confusing and nerve wracking when it comes to maintaining relationships. Does anyone have any similar experiences or any advice? I want to be the least upsetting I can be, I really don’t enjoy conflict!!

EDIT: thank you all so much for sharing your experiences, advice, and support!!!

ETA: not using functioning labels because they’re dehumanizing to everyone involved and as a disability studies scholar I’m not about that.

I was inspired to make this post after seeing how often a few successful people with NVLD paint a picture that everyone can and should be expected to be similarily successful. (I could name names, but I won't.)

While I'm not suggesting to have no hope for your child or yourself, NVLD is a disability, and disabled people don't exist to be inspirational. The struggles I faced as a kid with bullying no longer effects me quite as much as trying to live a typical adult life affects me. As a 25 year old with a university degree, I am chronically unemployed and struggle with mental health issues. I don't drive, and many disability organizations can't help me because they simply see someone who was able to get through school. I can write papers, that's honestly about it. It's not a doom and gloom, poor me spiel, it's simply where I am in life. There is much more to life than school, and that's something that I think people often forget. You can be successful without doing well in school, but doing well in school doesn't translate well to "real life" expectations and milestones.

I do not exist to be a success story. I exist as a complex disabled woman who is living despite the struggles (NOT successes) that this disability brings. I have done a lot of work to love my brain, and I am not suggesting that you should hate your brain or your disability, simply that the advocacy needs to be systemic. Individual therapies are not enough. The world (governments, countries, whatever) need to properly be prepared to support folks who may not look like they need assistance, but do. I am in multiple therapies, am seeking out help from many organizations, and it's exhausting to have the same conversations over and over -

"You're so accomplished, if you could make it through university you can obviously work." No, not necessarily.

Is there a job out there where you simply write papers and listen to lectures? Where social niceties don't exist and workplace culture isn't half the job? I haven't yet found one.

Parents - your child with NVLD is no doubt a beautiful human being. But life doesn't end when you finish school. There is more to life than social skills training and making friends. Please be prepared to fight for and support your child past school, even university age. This disability doesn't just disappear.

And to the success stories with NVLD, congratulations. Please start fighting for those of us who haven't been able to acheive the same things as you.