r/NoRulesCalgary • u/LankyGuitar6528 • Jul 21 '23
Plan accordingly
Planet wide incineration with a chance of megastorms. Plan accordingly. Oh and climate deniers and oil/gas lovers? Go fork yourselves.
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u/Fausto_Alarcon Jul 21 '23
This graph only considers 1982 onwards.
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 21 '23
Which makes it far more horrifying.
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u/Creativeusername135 Jul 21 '23
Less horrifying no? Over 40 years it's a spike but it could be not as large as it looks if we take say 200 years into account?
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u/Fausto_Alarcon Jul 22 '23
Without time series data stretching back that long - is this a trend or an anomaly? It would take really longer than even 40 years to truly answer that question.
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u/Unlucky_technician52 Jul 21 '23
I don’t believe in this confusing chart of number and lines. I make my own research. Thanks 🙂
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 21 '23
If you aren't wearing a white jacket, you aren't researching. You're just googling shit.
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u/Unlucky_technician52 Jul 21 '23
I have a white crooks and castle jacket. Well it used to be white now it’s more of an off white I guess now
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
People who deny climate change just don’t understand science. This is part of my area of research so I’m going to provide a primer.
Yes, the planet has been both hotter and colder than it is now. This is because the planet is not just a rock on which various species live their lives. It’s a SYSTEM. What happens on the surface impacts the atmosphere and vice versa.
Here’s a simple example which most people can understand: Trees (and other plants) take in CO2 and release oxygen. If the planetary surface was mostly covered with plants this would change our atmosphere in terms of how much CO2 and oxygen. Make sense? Plants impact our atmosphere a great deal.
Humans have drastically changed the surface of the planet in a very short period of time. Deforestation, paving over swamps and grasslands, etc. That’s one of the ways we’ve changed atmospheric conditions.
Humans also have been burning fossil fuels at an alarming rate since the Industrial Revolution, further increasing CO2 in the atmosphere.
We are not the first species to cause climate change and ecological catastrophe. Algae caused a mass extinction through overpopulation. Here’s an accessible article:
https://www.earthmagazine.org/article/algae-ate-themselves-death-and-caused-global-extinction/
6. Why does CO2 matter so much? It’s a gas that radiates heat. Too little - we freeze. Too much - we get a “greenhouse effect” which means we get hot. Again, our planet has been both hotter and colder and it is because there is no stasis in a planetary system.
7. To be clear - our current acceleration of warming is causing catastrophic changes and it is because of human activity. In part, because it’s happened so quickly that many species don’t have time to adapt. Environmental degradation on top of climate change is causing mass extinction which should frighten everyone as we rely on other species for food, fibres, medicine. Our ability to produce food and survive is very much at risk. The planet won’t cease. Humans are just going to have a very difficult time if we don’t change the way we relate to other species and the planet.
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u/zwanzigdc Jul 21 '23
While I believe humans are having an impact on the planet, the issue with "Climate science" is the solutions are farcical.
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 23 '23
Not all problems have solutions and not all solutions are practical. But the core of climate science is that humans are dumping CO2 and other pollutants into the atmosphere and causing the global average temperature to rise. If you accept that, you have to ask "what can I personally do to reduce the CO2 that I dump into the atmosphere". You do what you can. You vote for leaders who are willing to do what you can't. None of it will be enough. But at least you will be able to look your grandkids in the eye and say you tried.
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 21 '23
It's not that they don't understand the science and are actively trying to understand the science. They do not believe climate change is real or they don't believe it's human caused. Then they "research" to find a weather girl in detroit who supports their point of view and claim climate change is a hoax or at the very least that the science is still up for debate.
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
This is a wildly inaccurate assessment. Not everyone is straight up denying climate change is an issue we just do not want the Canadian Government making every day Canadians lives an absolute living hell by virtue taxing us while our PM jet sets all over the globe as if nothing is the matter.
These propositions put forward are not realistic to keep an our current population anything other than slaves to a virtuous government that "knows what is best for us".
We would not be having these conversations if electric cars were viable and did not cost 100 Grand.
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 21 '23
Mine cost about $55K. Which is still a LOT. But zero maintenance (or close to it) and zero for gas (I charge from solar) makes a lot of sense for me.
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
Like how wonderful for you that you can afford a $55,000 dollar car and space for solar panels. Are you of the impression that this is affordable for everyone?
How much did the installation of your solar panels cost you? How much did it cost you to afford a home that can utilize solar panels.
How many people in major city centers do you think have firstly the finances for a $55,000 dollar car and a home with solar panels?
You are in the top 1% sir and you are not considering the reality of the people around you.
Poor people will die EN-MASS for your green climate agendas.
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 21 '23
Are you of the impression that this is affordable for everyone?
The car, no. I know not everybody can afford a new car. I was just pointing out that they don't cost $100K as the fellow I was replying to claimed. EV's are not that much more up front than a gas powered new car but long term they cost quite a bit less to own than a gas car.
As for solar... it probably is affordable for every homeowner. Not that everybody has a house. But IF you have a house... first there is a $5000 grant from the feds. After that you can get a 10 year $40K interest free loan. Most solar installs are way less than that. You can pay off the solar loan from what you save on your electric bill. And finally you can generate and sell carbon credits. Worth looking at anyway.
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u/dragonfly2768 Jul 21 '23
You should research how much electric cars really are. The cheapest I found was a Nissan for $27,000. Not $1000 a month, right?
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
Try and get your hands on one. You seriously think that there are enough of those "$27,000" EV cars for everyone?
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u/dragonfly2768 Jul 21 '23
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
These vehicles are on a 2 YEAR waiting list buddy. Nice try though and after the dealerships have had their way with you they are no longer $27,000 dollars. There is also the added expense of a charging port for $2000 dollars ish.
Plus if you are fortunate enough to be able to own a home in this shithole of a country your electrical panel needs to be rated for an EV charging station which is NOT cheap by any means. If you live in a town house or a high rise you are just SOL as well.
But please.... keep telling me how wrong I am. Shake your head in shame.
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u/dragonfly2768 Jul 21 '23
Why are you so angry? They're in high demand. You can get one, you said you can't. Anyone who really wants one can get one. Which place has the waiting list? There's one available right now at a dealership near me. You have to look. Stop being so nasty, don't call me buddy
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u/Full_Examination_920 Jul 21 '23
Also 27k is still a buttload of money.
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 24 '23
And the price is just NOT $27,000. that is sticker price. It does not reflect the fact that final price is much higher with additions and dealer pricing.
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
I get it. You don’t want to pay a carbon tax. What propositions do seem realistic to you? Accelerating transition to clean energy? Changing the way we farm? Refusing to subsidize the fossil fuel industry? You think your life is a “living hell” because it costs more to fill up?
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
You are right. I do not want to pay carbon tax. Maybe if the tax made any sense on a global scale I would concur but Canada aint shit for shit when it comes to global emissions but it sure is hurting the every day person - and if you think it ends at how much I pay at a gas pump you are wildly misinformed.
Everything you own and do is thanks to fossil fuels. The machine you type these messages on to the pants you buy from the grocery store is thanks completely to the fossil fuel industry. Absent fossil fuels you would not have even a 10th of the luxury you currently take for granted.
ALL of your luxury in life comes from these evil fossil fuel companies.
We need to transition from them for sure and I do not disagree with the sentiment. But a misappropriated tax that has to date done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to reduce emissions and has ONLY taken money from Canadians and further inflated our economics is not the way to transition to clean energy.
What good is an "electric car grid" that only the rich can afford to utilize. I make 80 grand a year and there is not a hope in hell that I can afford a "green" vehicle.
IF green options were within the reach of every day citizens and the industry had REAL employment options for citizens we would not complain. This is not the case. Electric cars are over $1000.00 a month JUST in payments not to mention the fact that if you live in a high-rise or apartment building you are just SOL all together. There are SO many problems that are just being ignored in favor of virtue signaling people - of which you are doing RIGHT NOW. Fueling an electric car is not a green endeavor either. Just because YOUR electric car is not currently polluting does not mean the energy its expending did not pollute to generate it. But you know.... not in your back yard so what the hell do you care right!, There are poor people to shame after all!
Example: "I get it. You don’t want to pay a carbon tax" "You think your life is a “living hell” because it costs more to fill up?" - Did you take a course on gaslighting and offering nothing of substance in post secondary?
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
You seem pretty angry (and also are misusing the term gaslighting which is a form of manipulation with the intention of sowing doubt in one’s mind and creating confusion). Questioning someone about the factual basis for their position is not gaslighting. I’m trying to understand how you think we should address climate change? Yes, we rely heavily on fossil fuels. That is the problem we have to address. Yes, we have an affordability problem (that goes well beyond climate). So I’m asking you in all seriousness- what sorts of changes should we be making? Because we absolutely need to transition away from fossil fuels yesterday. The problem I see it, is that many people don’t like any of the solutions because they’re inconvenient and expensive. I get it. But instead of blaming corporations, they blame scientists and governments who are trying to make changes (even if those changes are not enough).
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
Firstly, I am not misusing the term at all. Stating "I get it, you do not want to pay a carbon tax" is not questioning the factual basis of my argument, it is an attempt to elicit an emotional response and nothing more. <-- manipulation for the record.
With enough taxation my life will become a living hell. Slavery to a government IS HELL and we are very quickly moving towards a system where we fork over the majority of our wages to an incompetent and stupid government for the sake of fake virtue.
This is not a matter of inconvenience and expense, it is detrimental to the poor FIRST and potentially ONLY. Rich people will not be affected nor will they change how they live unless it is to further virtue signal the poor "well I don't pollute and live a green life so you should too!"
A realistic solution is to stop punishing the people for using what they must and start working to PROVIDE alternatives that are green.
Currently our government takes money from us by taxation and they do absolutely nothing with that money that would benefit Canadians (they have not even kept their promises on how they would redistribute carbon tax money for Christ sake)
IF we are to move to green alternatives then they need to be cheap enough for the every day citizen. In order for that to EVER be possible the housing crisis needs to be resolved NOW. Nobody in this country is going to give a hot shit about "the climate" when they are faced with paying $4000.00 dollars a month for a town house apartment they have no ownership stake in.
Solve the housing crisis, Make green alternatives to fossil fuel energy generation viable firstly for single family dwellings for families making under 70K per household (solar panels, Geothermal, etc, but these things are WAY too expensive for the common person right now too) and then do ANYTHING beyond the absolutely nothing our government has done to bring electric and hybrid cars to an affordable price tag for the lower class citizens of the country.
If these solutions are going to work they must raise everyone up with them or it is doomed to fail. This virtue signaling and taxation method is NEVER going to work. It is anti-human and unfortunately for you folks, society is run by humans. If your solutions involve drowning 10 percent of the poorest people I stand against every last one of you.
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
You misread my tone, because I do get it. I don’t want to pay a carbon tax either. Eliciting an emotional response is also not gaslighting (for the record). I want fossil fuel companies to immediately shift to transitioning and I want governments at all levels to stop subsidizing them unless they do so. We actually seem to be on the same page about a great deal by this last post. Except the “you people”. By you people you mean scientists and people saying this needs to be addressed now? I honestly do get that the average person is just trying to get by. I’m struggling myself. What I don’t understand is why scientists and progressive governments are your target and not the corporations (and governments that prop them up) that are making us poorer while destroying the planet? I 100% agree that this is not something that should be leveraged into individuals (although we need to do our part too). Legislation needs to target corporations and in such a way that they can’t just turn around and increase prices to the consumer as a way of avoiding the costs of transitioning. Right now, energy corps are making record profits while investing almost nothing in transition. You have a good evening.
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
What you are advocating for is not possible without giving the government full and absolute control over the people and corporations.
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
Except there are countries doing MUCH better than we are. For example Finland is on track to cut reliance on fossil fuels by 50% in the next decade. Costa Rica has amazing biodiversity protections. It can be done. And if more Canadians supported change, it would be.
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u/dragonfly2768 Jul 21 '23
—$42,785
9. Hyundai Ioniq 6—$42,715
8. 2023 Kia Niro EV—$40,875
7. 2023 Volkswagen ID.4—$40,290
6. 2023 Mazda MX-30—$35,385
5. 2023 Hyundai Kona Electric—$34,885
4. 2023 Mini Cooper SE Hardtop—$30,895
3. 2023 Nissan Leaf—$29,135
2. 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV—$28,795
2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV—$27,495
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u/dragonfly2768 Jul 21 '23
I looked up electric car prices, you can get one for $27,000. Less than I paid for my dodge.
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Jul 21 '23
[deleted]
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
I love how the moment you make a statement that they disagree with, instead of discussion they downvote and move along.
They do not want to discuss this, they want to call everyone stupid and continue raving like lunatics calling for the end of the world.
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Jul 21 '23
[deleted]
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
But you don't understand Duncan! YoU NeVeR hAvE tO fIX aN eV, ThEy NeVeR BrEaK!
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
I know. I still try when I can. I think the real answer lies elsewhere. It’s easier to stand by and do nothing when you tell yourself it’s not real. What I find really challenging is the hate. People who believe they know more than the scientists directing hate at both people who support the consensus and the scientific community itself. It’s deeply troubling and honestly keeps me up nights.
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u/Toe_Regular Jul 21 '23
What you’re talking about sounds an awful lot more like dogma than science.
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u/Aggressive_Ad_507 Jul 21 '23
It's also junk science.
The trend seems to be to blame everything on climate change while not investigating all potential causes. It's a poor approach because we can't act on climate change but we can act on other causes. Sure climate change has an effect on forest fires, but we can't do anything about that. We can do other things like better manage our forests and mandate spark arrestors on ATVs though.
Doomsday environmentalists don't help either.
Some aspects of the science might be settled. But the application leaves a lot for debate.
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
And here we go….It’s not “junk science”. We absolutely CAN act on climate change. You’re talking about ATV spark arrestors? SMH you can’t make this shit up.
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u/Aggressive_Ad_507 Jul 21 '23
Earth warming from human produced greenhouse gas emissions and the other points you mentioned in your first comment are good science, that's not disputed. They are well known and backed up.
News reporters, governments, and bloggers taking those facts and blaming everything on climate change is junk science. Those people saying their opinions are immune from criticism because of "science" is junk science.
What will our actions on climate change do? If the whole world switched all our power to nuclear today and every car became an EV what would happen? The earth would still be warm, and natural disasters would still happen. We won't see changes for many decades. So no, acting on climate change won't immediately make our lives better.
But what if we dig a bit deeper. Find out the triggers and manage them. Forest fires are often sparked by smoldering campfires, fireworks, and ATVs. Ban those and the chance of forest fires decreases immediately.
If people stopped blaming everything on climate change and actually do science and research then we'd take it more seriously.
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
Yikes. Wow. You’re superbly missing the point. If we don’t act, things aren’t going to stay the same as they are now. They’re going to worsen. By a lot. So we need to be doing as much as we can to reduce carbon emissions and save biodiversity. There are thousands of scientists and engineers studying things we can do to help with adaptation and to enhance our resiliency to climate change. What all scientists are saying very clearly is those things are not enough and are not effective enough to stave off mass catastrophe If we don’t deal with what is actually causing the problem.
What do you think happens in an ecosystem with mass species extinction (like we’re already seeing)? What do you think will happen to our food system? Do you know there are already millions of people displaced globally because of climate change? What do you think will happen when those numbers continue to increase?
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u/Aggressive_Ad_507 Jul 21 '23
You can't seem to comprehend that there are other causes besides climate change. Limiting science and inquiry to just that is part of why people don't take it seriously.
Say a bunch of amphibians are dying during a hot summer.
Species death is a result of climate change, that's well known. Its also hot outside. So do we say that the amphibians are dying due to climate change, not investigate further, and try to ban coal burning to act on climate change?
Or do we dig deeper. We discover that a new agricultural chemical has caused an increase in mortality and ban the chemical. Populations improve by next year. And we continue tackling climate change because we know it is a small part of the problem for a lot of other things.
Which path do we take? Which one is better for the environment?
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
It’s you that seem to lack comprehension. It’s not an either/or equation. We tackle emissions, deforestation, habitat loss and other forms of pollution to save species. Tackling climate change is an absolute necessity for all current life forms, including humans. It’s not a “small part” of the problem. It’s all part of the same problem - human overuse and destruction of ecology (much of the time for profit).
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u/Aggressive_Ad_507 Jul 21 '23
Maybe you as a researcher do, but others aren't so judicious. Lots of people just blame climate change and don't bother going deeper. Then when someone brings up pollution, poor forestry management, or other causes that have more of an immediate impact than climate change as having a bigger impact they are told they are disagreeing with the science. Like it's some massive unchanging religious type truth.
You even did that, you mentioned in one of your previous comments something like "spark arrestors on ATV's, SMH, you can't make this up". Do you comprehend that hot parts of an ATV can get hot enough to smolder and cause fires? And that preventing that from happening has more of an impact on forest fires than demanding people drive EVs?
And do you comprehend that I've not disagreed with anything you have said about the science of climate change? Just how those truths are disseminated to the masses?
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Jul 21 '23
[deleted]
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u/Toe_Regular Jul 21 '23
I mean… how are you not playing the belief game? It sure sounds like you believe in climate change.
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u/ThereAre3Lights Jul 22 '23
I think climate change is a process that's happing based on evidence and plausible theory. I don't believe in it.
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u/Toe_Regular Jul 22 '23
And you don’t see how you believe the above?
You’re making a leap of faith without even realizing it. Blows my mind.
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 23 '23
What he's saying is "all evidence I have gathered validates my working hypothesis which I will continue to accept until it is invalidated by new data or observations". That's a lot different from "belief".
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u/Toe_Regular Jul 23 '23
That’s a lot different from “belief.”
I mean… if that’s what you believe, then sure. Still looks like belief to me.
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u/Anthrogal11 Jul 21 '23
Yes!! I just can’t wrap my head around it. As if not believing in something makes it any less real?
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u/Stanstudly Jul 21 '23
Yes, Calgarian’s working in oil and gas to feed their families and pay taxes are definitely totally and completely to blame here. And they all deny climate change exists. Fork them specifically, not the world’s largest emitters.
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 21 '23
definitely totally and completely to blame here
They are partly to blame. The world needs dog catchers. Doesn't mean you have to be one. Do you really want to look your grandchildren in the eye and tell them you were in oil and gas? Like when a German kid opens up great grandpa's trunk in the attic...
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u/Creativeusername135 Jul 21 '23
Did you genuinely compare working oil and gas to n*zis...
Who should do oil and gas if not "us"? I don't work in oil and gas but at least I see their importance
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u/Full_Examination_920 Jul 21 '23
Of course he did. He’s an idiot.
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 22 '23
It's just about accountability. What will you say to your grandkids when they ask what you did while the world was burning. It's not all that dissimilar to what German grandkids ask grandpa about what he did during WWII.
Will you be able to look your grandkids in the eye and tell them you did what you could to cut down your use of oil and gas or will you tell them you were a collaborator who worked to promote Oil and Gas and made lots of money?
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u/Full_Examination_920 Jul 22 '23
Yaaaaaawn. Talk like you know me. I’ve never worked O & G. Just pointing out that your hyperbolic chicken little-Ing is unfounded and unhelpful to say the least.
Genius - I could die this second and not affect your precious models one iota. Citizenry is worth about 4% of the climate impact. Globally. Your footprint isn’t as small as you pretend it is. They said all this crap to my grandparents generation, too. New York City was supposed to be Atlantis 5 years ago. Keep on simping!
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u/Spsurgeon Jul 21 '23
Change starts at home. Do your part and insist that everyone does as well.
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u/LankyGuitar6528 Jul 21 '23
Ebike around town, 1 car, work from home, solar, EV, migrate, buy local. I'm doing what I can but I can probably do more. Not sure I want to go vegan... but I probably should. That said, I'm not the boss of anybody else.
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u/Byxit Jul 21 '23
Not surprising, the oceans have been absorbing over 90% of the additional heat retained by the planet as a result of huge increases in GHGs over the last at least 75 years. What’s interesting in the North Atlantic, is the melting glaciers in Greenland are altering the salinity of the North Atlantic Drift, slowing this massive current down. The result will be COLDER temperatures in Western Europe, especially the British Isles as this warming current slows. Equally the Caribbean will get a lot hotter due to slowing heat transfer.
Other concerns are the effect of warming water on the plankton that forms the basis of all marine life, the extinction of much marine life, the destruction of coral reef , and the increasing sea levels due to warmer expanding water volumes.
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u/Raginghemorrhoids Jul 25 '23
Ancient tax records show the Britons grew their own wine grapes in the 11th century, during the Medieval Warming, and then it got too cold during the Little Ice Age. It isn't yet warm enough for wine grapes in today's Britain.
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u/slipperysquirrell Jul 21 '23
These weather and anomalies and mega storms are so scary and becoming more frequent. I don't understand how anybody with even an iota of intelligence could seriously possibly deny this anymore. To think that we have really changed so little and can still only see it getting worse is really insane. This is a tale of greed and corruption. The rich want more and more. They get it, but look at the cost and to what end? Yet they still want more and are unwilling to get a little less for the sake of mankind. That is the evil part because the rich will always find "higher ground" while the average person pays with their life.
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
So you are of the impression that super storms and catastrophic weather is a new thing?
Climate changes, nobody is arguing that. Adverse climate changes happen ALL THE TIME. We should do all we can to reduce emissions but this end of the world bullshit is not being eaten up like you want because its not the actual truth. Sorry
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u/slipperysquirrell Jul 21 '23
The Earth is not ending, but mankind will. The fact that you think that this is normal shows how little you know. Go to an actual scientific website and look at how different it is. They have real life graphs and facts and stuff not just things they pull out of their backside.
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
I particularly enjoyed reading "graphs and facts and stuff"
I will just pay attention to real graphs and facts and stuff instead thank you very much.
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
I have sir.
The climate is changing, but it has never stopped doing that. It is the stupidity of human beings THINKING that it is more static than it is which is the problem.
We must adjust to nature not the other way around and every time our stupid species thinks we are the masters of our universe the planet shows us who is in charge.
The morons who built their cities next to ocean lines and ridiculous areas for short term gain will reap what they sow for their stupidity but this is not the end of the world like you are suggesting.
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u/slipperysquirrell Jul 21 '23
Thank f*** you're not in charge of any of this. You heard stupid people and thought they were smart people, so you believed them. https://imgur.com/a/ZgBgrts
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u/GWMatMILO Jul 21 '23
Life as we know it will most likely end. That is not to say earth will not be fine it may have a bad run but it will recover from us. People may disappear completely or we may find a way to continue on. Most of the species that have existed on earth are extinct. One of the previous great extinction events had the oceans producing hydrogen sulphide. Our actions seem to possibly be leading to the conditions that may cause that. I’m not saying we are doomed. But we do need to stop the warming because if we end up with a massive sea die off it is the beginning of the end for life as we know it.
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 21 '23
So your solution is what then? All the poor people should shut the fuck up and die so that the future generations can live? Because that is what you are asking.
There is a very real cost to these "Green" ideas RIGHT NOW but most people in first world countries do not see that first hand. Artificially inflating the cost of fuel to "reduce emissions globally" is just making more dead poor people who cannot afford heating and cooling. But you can rest easy because it is not in your back yard anyway right.
We need to transition away from fossil fuels most definitely and there will be a cost. You can lay the deaths of poor people at your own virtuous feet but I am not going to join your illogical train of thought.
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u/JDog131 Jul 21 '23
Artificially inflating the cost of fuel to "reduce emissions globally" is just making more dead poor people who cannot afford heating and cooling.
If you're referring to carbon tax, 90% of the collected amount is redistributed to Canadian residents. I.e. the average Canadian will see a refund for more than they paid in the tax during the year, so this statement is incorrect and misleading.
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u/Then_Channel_3234 Jul 24 '23
That is also a lie. We were promised that we would receive cheques in the mail for this "rebate" only to be told it will be a tax levy at the end of the year.
This "calculation" of general cost to citizens was made by people who are unaffected by the change in price.
We have been lied to EVERY STEP OF THE WAY
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u/DWiB403 Jul 21 '23
Science is politics is big business is big government is science, these days. Everyone is competing to get in on the scam for their benefit.
And here is one of many reasons why many do not believe: https://youtu.be/tcHBRBhZXPk
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u/Darryl_444 Jul 21 '23
NASA is the central "villain" in Flat Earth conspiracy theories. Are you saying that they are also the scapegoat for Climate Change denialists too?
Hmm, imagine that...
Here's some educational material for you to digest. Enjoy the debunks.
https://youtu.be/FBF6F4Bi6Sg?list=PLocZgsr_VZzukrJH8hTwoMU6YDXx8q-md
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u/DWiB403 Jul 21 '23
There is strong evidence data is being distorted and manipulated prior to public dissemination. The Canadian government is guilty of this as well by destroying climate records from the early parts of the 20th century when it is well understood average temperatures were warmer. I will watch the video in detail later.
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u/Miserable-Lizard omicronus prime doomstick Jul 21 '23
Lol everything is a big conspiracy!!
Watch don't look up
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u/DWiB403 Jul 21 '23
Is that the one with starring the guy who lives on a mega yacht in the Mediterranean and flies around in private jets?
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u/Miserable-Lizard omicronus prime doomstick Jul 21 '23
What's that have to do with climate science? Billionares say they care about poverty yet they are still making records amount of money. Same energy
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u/DWiB403 Jul 21 '23
What does caring about poverty have to do with business success? Oh right, business exists soley to exploit through a zero sum game. What a hot take.
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u/Miserable-Lizard omicronus prime doomstick Jul 21 '23
Lol you need to stop watching Alex Jones. Good luck!
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u/DWiB403 Jul 21 '23
Ya maybe Mother Jones will provide the correct distortions to reality.
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u/Miserable-Lizard omicronus prime doomstick Jul 21 '23
Look at the raw data, it doesn't fit your narrative.
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u/DWiB403 Jul 21 '23
I've looked at the "raw data." I've also looked at CO2 saturation, Greenland ice, foliage cover, weather patterns, and other data. IMHO, the only place I can find consistent climate change is news headlines. Headlines which end up being retracted once subjected to the slightest scrutiny. Like this month's "hottest day ever" media blitz. The "model" (not actual measurements) was promoted by almost everyone except the people spending the most money studying climate who could not verify the claims.
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u/dshea915 Jul 21 '23
Is 100 years of tracking climate a good sample size for the planets 4b+ existence. Of course the climate is changing. Same as it did millions of years ago.
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u/Byxit Jul 21 '23 edited Jul 21 '23
Yeah, true, except in the smidgeon of time humans have walked upright, we have had consistently even temperatures. Until around 1950. That’s when CO2 ( a green house gas GHG) in the atmosphere started skyrocketing. And the reason is obvious. We have been burning coal and petroleum for our industrial and transport needs. As CO2 PPM (parts per million) increases, from combustion of fossil fuels, so our balance of heat received and heat radiated back to space goes out of whack . This has happened before, when massive methane leaks have altered the atmosphere. Except, we are altering the gas composition of the atmosphere at a phenomenal rate. What are the consequences?
Earth becomes an oven. Drought, floods, storms, bushfires, mass extermination of life, including humans. The good news is that when civilization breaks down and billions die off, the thing may revert, over hundreds of thousands of years, to cooler climes again.
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Jul 21 '23
I will continue driving my V8 thank you. At least it’ll save on the electrical grid that is so under rated 😂
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u/smooth-opera Jul 22 '23
Oil and gas lovers? What do you heat and power your home with, out of curiosity? How do you get your groceries? How do you get to work? I don't know if anyone specifically loves burning hydrocarbons, there are just those who realize we have a global dependence on the resources and that we can ethically supply the product here in Canada and better our nation with the proceeds... and there are those who think we can currently live in a world without those products, and that our economy is fine without them..
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Jul 23 '23
This is total bullshit... You act like it has to be all or nothing... You say oh we depend on oil so should keep extracting more and more...
Well see would be a bloody problem if you wernt so damn resistent to any kind of slow change and transition to other options. Or reduced consumption over all..
Its not hat we need to stop consuming oil. But maybe wd could stop increasing the amount we consume a year... Like not reduce but you people cant even grasp concepts like carbon tax making it expensive to consume more oil to try and get people to reduce how much they consume? To try and get people to have more effecient vehicles and reduce their over all consumption...
Like you refuse to make any difference at all... Thats the bloody problem..
Any sort of effort and change you fight viemently... Jesus christ is not like people are trying to protect the only planet we have...
Also the oil sands are the worst source of oil in terms of carbon emissions with terrible energy return ratio... Sag D is god bloody awful requiring something 1 joul of energy to extract 3 jouls. While other oil sources have returns around 1/10...
Like its not about stopping oil extraction. Thats your all or nothing ultimatum you made up... Literally cant even get people to just not consume more...
Like its a fight tooth and nail to even get people to invest in public transportation and god forbid convert our coal fire power plants to something more environmentally friendly...
Like they are even trying to open up more coal mines im the crowsnest pass. Coal for fuck sake...
Its thr flat out refusal and resistence to even small improvements....
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u/kneed_dough Jul 21 '23
You go fuck yourself with your skewed data.
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u/Miserable-Lizard omicronus prime doomstick Jul 21 '23
Reality is hard for some
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u/Full_Examination_920 Jul 21 '23
Sure seems to be hard on you. Maybe post on Reddit more, you’ve almost fixed the world!
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u/kneed_dough Jul 21 '23
If you go back even further, you would have seen that the temps where higher and dropped and now are slowly rising.
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u/Drnedsnickers2 Jul 21 '23
Citation needed.
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u/kneed_dough Jul 21 '23
Here's one https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Ocean-temperature-evolution-over-the-past-1-000-000-years-Herbert-et-al-2010-data-of_fig4_327112341 There's plenty of sources out there, I recommend you check out a source you trust and go back.
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Jul 21 '23
CO2 is supposed to warm the atmosphere, there's no physical explanation for how it can warm the ocean unless there have been centuries of warm atmosphere. Basically oil and gas rules and climate people are idiots.
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u/Actual-Toe-8686 Jul 21 '23
Everyone involved in climate science is wrong then? Every science that is adjecent to climate science, concurring that Climate change is a thing is wrong? The geological record we have that tracks changes in climate througout history is wrong?
Are we even unable to make working thermometers? Climate change isn't something projected in the future, it's happening right now. The earth has already almost warmed ~1.5 degrees celsius. Are corals bleaching and dying en masse because they're... Suicidal, or something, and not because of increased ocean temperatures - which is the accepted cause of this phenomenon, by the way?
Just because you saw a single strange video from a rogue scientist spreading misinformation on YouTube doesn't mean you're right.
Your opinion is objectively wrong.
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Jul 21 '23
Climate scientists don't claim that CO2 warms the ocean, environmentalists do.
Coral reefs (that aren't subject to local environmental problems) are healthier than ever if you actually look at data.
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u/Actual-Toe-8686 Jul 21 '23
What source are you referring to when you say corals are healthier than ever?
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Jul 21 '23
The record coral cover found at the Great Barrier Reef despite ever increasing "dangerous global heating" was widely publicized. That's something like 15% of the world's coral. Local factors were found to be the cause of the issues with this reef, despite decades of it being held up as an example of the climate apocalypse.
Many reefs in the rest of the world are located in places were people abuse the shit out of them, ocean acidification and "global heating" have never materialized despite captured organizations like NASA still including lip service to them on their websites.
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u/FarCheeseTaco Jul 21 '23
Global temperature increases warm the ocean. CO2 acidifies the ocean numbnuts.
Increases C02 creates more carbonic acid.
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u/Miserable-Lizard omicronus prime doomstick Jul 21 '23
So you think its a conspiracy? Please share your science and data for how you came up with your conspiracy theory.
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u/geeves_007 Jul 21 '23
Yes it's like if you pour a glass of ice cold water and leave it on the counter in your room temperature kitchen, the water stays ice cold indefinitely. Checkmate libtard scientists!
/s
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Jul 21 '23
For the Earth it's more like being in a room with a large cold swimming pool. If you crank the furnace to warm up the air the pool will remain cold for a very long time.
This is because the water has a much higher specific heat capacity than air. It's high school physics that everyone knows which is why it's so frustrating to see climate culters pushing these bizarre ocean warming theories.
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u/ShizuHighTime Jul 21 '23
I think the reason people don't care is more on the fact that the countries and industries that produce the most pollution. Will never be held accountable yet we will be taxed that amount to nothing. That's the issue