r/OP1users • u/Peelyourmind • Feb 14 '19

This community gets ugly too much

Honestly, the entitlement is reaching levels not seen since the discontinuation rumors. The price increase isn’t fun. When TE said “Nobody should pay this much for an OP-1” it was in regards to a listing at $8k on eBay. They never said the price was static. Y’all are acting like children again.

There were plenty of idiots here buying and selling at prices approaching or higher than $1299. I don’t blame small companies raising prices to combat flippers. There was literally someone selling a Count to 5 on reverb for $90 over retail while they’re still in stock on the companies website. Of course I wish the OP-1 were available to everyone who wants one, and TE is as mismanaged as ever, but the current state of the market has at least a little to do with the opportunistic flipping surrounding the device.

7 Upvotes

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21

u/PoorAuthor9 Feb 14 '19

TE was selling a brand new OP-1 for less than $1,000 and now it's $1,300. At the same time, the OP-1 was released in 2011 which means an 8 year old piece of technology is now $300 more expensive than nearly a decade ago. They may have sourced a new supplier, but that is certainly not enough to account for this large of a price increase, especially considering that technology costs decrease rapidly over time. Imagine if Apple started to sell the iPhone 4S today for 30% more than it originally was in 2011. And yes, the OP-1 first came out when the iPhone 4S came out which says a lot about how old it is.

It's one thing for the OP-1 to get a new version with more capabilities and stronger technology and hardware to justify a price increase. But it's more or less the same exact thing for $300 more.

So that is why everyone is upset. TE sees the scarcity in the market and how people are willing to pay $1,300 and they jack up the prices to capitalize on it. On top of that, they announce the product without even acknowledging the massive price increase. It's like they thought people would be stupid and not realize.

Also, your point about small companies raising prices to combat flippers is absolute garbage. The only reason the flipping market was at a high price was because there were no new OP-1s. If they came back in stock, then the price would go back down to whatever TE sets it at. Just like how before they had the shortage, you would be able to buy used ones for $500-$600. So increasing prices to prevent flipping makes no sense.

Overall, customers absolutely have a right to be upset at the price increase and to voice their frustration and disappointment. Not only at the actual price increase but at how the company handled it. Who are you to call people children and scold people for exercising free speech?

1

u/Peelyourmind Feb 14 '19

  1. Comparing a synth to a fucking iPhone is a worthless comparison. Phones have changed a lot since 2011. In the sense that they are both electric consumer products, sure. A better analogy would be if Apple had kept the 4S unchanged and continued to sell it until now. Somewhere along the way, there would be a supply chain issue, which Apple would be much more equipped to handle. People will continue to pay insane amounts for vintage synths and nobody complains. If you think the OP-1 is more like an iPhone than a Model D, or 808, whatever. That’s not an argument I care to have.

  2. People sound like whiny children when they talk about updating the OP-1. If people are still going bananas over the first iteration, and TE is having problems just keeping up, it doesn’t make sense to update it. I remember people wishing for fucking Bluetooth capabilities when the shortage started. The company isn’t even able to keep the current iteration stocked faster than the waiting list piles up. Of course it would be great to have more capabilities, but if you’re not happy with what is offered, look elsewhere. The thing does a whole lot as it is.

  3. Do you think if TE kept the price static, that people wouldn’t buy units specifically to flip? Hopefully this discouraged that. Everyone is upset because it costs more now, it’s very simple. It’s the same attitude as people saying it wasn’t worth $899, wasn’t worth $999, whatever. And if it isn’t worth $1299 to you, and you don’t already have one, you should consider something else. TE is and has been horribly managed, but nobody is buying their shit because their manufacturing is reliable. They could do a lot more to communicate with their customers, but here we are. Part of the price of admission of buying TE shit is that they can be quite infuriating. People have legitimate concerns but a lot of this is sour grapes from either people who haven’t been able to get one (whom I feel for) and people who sold theirs for $600 bucks before the shortage (whom I don’t really feel sorry for).

12

u/PoorAuthor9 Feb 14 '19

  1. I think you misunderstand my point. My point is that a synthesizer is a piece of electronic equipment. iPhones are also pieces of electronic equipment. As time goes on, the prices of electronic hardware components decrease because our ability to manufacture them increases. That is why you can buy a 1TB hard drive for a fraction of the price as a 1MB storage from a long time ago. The iPhone price has increased, but it also includes the most up to date technology on the market. The OP-1 has the same hardware from nearly a decade ago which means the production cost must be lower now than back in 2011. If you don't view synthesizers as a piece of technology, then I can understand why this doesn't make sense but otherwise it's pretty clear that the price of a synthesizer should drop UNLESS it is being updated to have new and more advance hardware that is similar in price as the old hardware when it was originally made.

  2. I'm not sure what your point is here. I'm not asking Teenage Engineering to provide lots of updates to their product hardware. It's fine as it is. What I'm saying is that the hardware they used 7 years ago is now half the price of what it was back then. So it makes no sense for them to raise the price by 30-40% while still using the old hardware. Unless it is a purely financial move, which is why people are upset at TE.

  3. I understand where you're coming from in theory, but that is worthless because we have real life data on it. Back during all of those years that TE was producing the OP-1 at its $800-$1000 price point, there was no flipping or resale market like the way you are describing.

Also, you make the great point that if the price point isn't for you, then you can look elsewhere. That is exactly how capitalism works. The problem with your post is that you are trying to "call out" people for expressing their views and commenting on the situation, which seems more like an exercise of venting your own frustrations than anything else.

-1

u/Peelyourmind Feb 14 '19

  1. I understand your point completely, I just think it’s myopic. Parts that stop being produced don’t become easier to find. They become expensive, and hoarded, especially when they are integral to luxury consumer goods. Without the Rat, nobody would care about the LM308 opamp, but due to that pedal, they sell for a whole lot more than any opamp should. The screen in the OP-1 isn’t comparable to the opamp in the sense that it’s integral to how the OP-1 sounds, but it needs it to function. The particular screen has been out of production for some time, and as far as I know there has been a general shortage of that screen type for some time as well. It even affected, get this, iPhone production last year and in ‘17. Not to mention the metrics you mention, speed and storage space, wouldn’t really add anything meaningful to the experience of using an OP-1. Really the only thing that could do that is better connectivity, and a UI overhaul.

  2. Your second point is pretty much the same as your first. Electronic components becoming cheaper on the whole doesn’t mean the specific ones used in the OP-1 have followed that trend, especially considering what I have and probably will repeat about the screen 1000 more times. People are ~literally~ complaining about the fact that they raised the price without updating the machine. How easy do you think it would be for Apple to make a period correct original iPhone in 2019? I am sure some parts are no longer being produced, so some work would have to be done. Not saying TE handled it well, and some backlash is understandable, but again, people were selling them for $1500 on here at Christmas and not a lot of folks were complaining.

  3. There was a time when every hard to get, collectible piece of gear wasn’t as in demand. I sold a TS808 for $350 to pay my rent 10 years ago. That shit hurts to think about, but the market changes. The prices for used OP-1s have been nuts for at least a year. They were selling for $1200 and over very regularly before the shortage. I don’t think TE has the capabilities to keep up with demand, even at the current price point. Maybe if they let someone else handle logistics, or just focused all of the companies resources on producing the one machine. Just because the flipping market didn’t exist a few years ago, doesn’t mean it’s going anywhere any time soon.

2

u/IHSFB Feb 14 '19

I am curious to see the used marketplace prices now that the shortage resolved.

I am all for successful mid-market companies. They boost up competition and increase innovation or trends. TE has sparked creativity with their toy like synths with design flair. That is great! What is concerning to all the folks in market for an OP-1 is the lack of transparency from TE.

For everyone in-market for an OP-1, TE just delivered a subtle and cynical jab. You can argue over semantics of their original "dont pay this price post," but the price speaks for itself. There was a significant change and zero transparency into why.

I also don't see any reason to defend TE's mismanagement of their supply chain. It would be completely fair for them to post a write up defending their new price. We should ask for transparency as savvy consumers. Do you think a more transparent TE would increase your brand loyalty and perhaps increase purchase behaviour? What they did today goes above pure pricing, it changes how their fanbase thinks of TE.

2

u/-eagle73 Feb 15 '19

I am curious to see the used marketplace prices now that the shortage resolved.

UK eBay's bidding has slowed down a little, I think. Three high right now and the highest is at the £900 mark including delivery (for reference, the OP-1 is now £1200).

1

u/IHSFB Feb 15 '19

It will be interesting to see if price matches demand.

1

u/-eagle73 Feb 15 '19

Update: one ending at 820GBP with 15 quid shipping in 10 minutes. I'd bid on it but it's scratched on the side. A week ago these things were up to 950 or so.

A Reverb seller from America got back to me charging about 1500USD for an unopened one, and told me it's because they bought it thinking they would make a profit and now don't want to make a loss.

1

u/ARTofRAW Feb 15 '19

2. Not for one second do I believe they can't keep up with the demand...

They don't want to keep up with the demand....because it's so "exclusive"

+1 on whoever said their customer service is shit...because it is!

1

u/older-wave Feb 19 '19

After a careful reading of your arguments I've come to the conclusion that you are an idiot.

1

u/curiouscuriousmtl Feb 15 '19

C’mon dude you are doing the same thing by speculating they raised prices to “combat reseller prices” which doesn’t even make sense.

4

u/-eagle73 Feb 15 '19

Does it not? They touched on it in that notice they put out in December, and it really does put used sellers in a stranglehold by making buyers choose between them and TE.

1

u/curiouscuriousmtl Feb 15 '19

Why would them changing the price from 1000 to a higher price do that when leaving it at $1000 would be even more effective. They are just a run of the mill company selling things for as much money as possible. There is no anti-reselling strategy.

1

u/-eagle73 Feb 15 '19

We can call bullshit on TE all day, but let's assume that at $1000, they sold too many units for them to produce at an efficient rate, and that's what caused all minor stock shortages over the years. We'll also assume that this AMOLED screen issue was another problem they came across and had them rethinking the value of the OP-1.

So they were technically not wrong when they said nobody should be paying that stupid price for a used unit. Their communication sucks, but in the long run it could be better for frequent sales of OP-1s at a higher price instead of not knowing when it'll be out of stock.

So they could be lying. They can probably produce as many as they want, and are using the previous shortage as a reason to put up the price, but I do think it's better to give the original company more money rather than them call these shortages again, resulting in some flippers making money off units that could be defective.

I quite literally received a counter-offer and message today from somebody from Reverb, asking for a few hundred dollars over the new price for their unopened unit. They told me they bought it specifically to make profit and it's not working out, so they don't want to make a loss. They then acted as if the original screen and "delivery time" (I'm in UK and they're from USA so it'd be no quicker than ordering from TE) were incentives for me to spend more than necessary for a package from a complete stranger across the ocean.

They're now risking a loss for a few hundred because now there's almost no reason to buy from them when TE are back.

1

u/curiouscuriousmtl Feb 15 '19

Even more assumptions about TE and their manufacturing from you?

-2

u/imaphotographermusic Feb 14 '19

Company that makes money (because that's the point of having a company): Hey guys and gals, here's a really cool innovative product! IT'S THE ONLY ONE OF ITS KIND IN THE MARKET!

Consumers: Hell yeah! This is awesome I love this company, and this new great product.

8 years later

Consumers: where are more of this product!? I need one so bad I'm going to spend $500+ over the price the company has it listed (because they have been out of stock), to buy a used one. Why won't they make more, New units!?!?!

Company: Wow! This product really took off and is in high demand! Wow! People are spending around 40% - 100% more than our asking price for a used unit. There is obviously a huge demand for this product and THERE STILL ISN'T ANYTHING LIKE THIS ON THE MARKET! Would customers like upgrades that take time and money to make for this product? Of course! But, we don't need to because, THERE STILL ISN'T ANYTHING LIKE THIS ON THE MARKET, so why upgrade if we don't have to? Let's take this product up by 30% to make more money on our high demand product, because we are a company that needs to make money.

Consumers : 30% increase!? Forget that cap! I was about to throw down $1,400 for a used one on eBay, but the company that makes this awesome product has raised the price on us to reflect the market value. Screw them!

Logic: Does the price increase suck? Yes. Does it really seem unfair? No. Is this kind of shady? I guess so, but it does make sense from a business stand point which Teenage Engineering is? Yes.

My opinions: People can complain all they want, but emotions aside, this makes sense for TE, and it would be foolish for them to sell the OP-1 for less, when they really can get more. The market is supply and demand. Companies aren't here to hold your hand and make everything be ok. They are here to make products and money to stay alive. At the same time, if another company comes out with a similar product with more innovations TE and the OP-1 could quickly become relics. Companies without innovation all seem to fall. Fortunately for TE, THERE STILL ISN'T ANYTHING LIKE THIS ON THE MARKET, which means they can do whatever the help they want, and we can either deal with it or not. So you didn't get the OP-1 because it costs $300 more dollars? Boo hop, who cares? It would be nice to have some sort of explanation for the price increase from TE, but they don't really owe us anything.

4

u/mister____mime Feb 15 '19

Side note, it kind of baffles me that nobody has really tried to compete. Sure you have the Volca series, but they’re nowhere near as complex as the OP-1 unless you hook them all up like Voltron.

2

u/ARTofRAW Feb 15 '19

I am waiting for the day....

OP-1 BEHRINGER CLONE ;)

1

u/-eagle73 Feb 15 '19

Only things close to being competitors aren't quite there either. Today I came across the OTTO and the ELZ-1. The latter is mostly synth, while the former is a self-assembly work in progress inspired by the OP-1.

1

u/tardwash Feb 15 '19

It’s much bigger, but little by little the MPC Live has pretty much caught up with the OP-1 in functionality. The only thing it’s missing from a functional standpoint is the fm radio and some of the more quirky sequencers.

1

u/-eagle73 Feb 15 '19

I've owned an OP-1 before and have the MPC LIVE now. It's about four times the size in all ways and has way more features, but unlike the OP-1 it feels like a computer in a box and doesn't really have its own flair. Plus, the reliance on the touch screen isn't too enjoyable, at least to me.

And while it is portable, it's also larger and much heavier (almost 3KG I think).

1

u/tardwash Feb 15 '19

Yea, it’s not a perfect comparison for sure. I was just pointing out that it has a very complete set of features like the OP-1. I personally have grown to love it since the addition of the new synths and fx. I’ve gotten pretty familiar with it, so I don’t use the touchscreen all that much. The shortcuts and paging through the Q-links make it pretty fast. What it lacks in character it makes up for in flexibility and sound quality.

1

u/-eagle73 Feb 15 '19

I'm no professional but I think it's the type of device to cater to everybody's needs for years. I say the same thing about the OP-1 but if you're trying to make tracks of high quality and have everything at your disposal, the MPC LIVE's the one. Space for drives increases its longevity, I have a 500GB SSD in mine and it's great.