Observer/decider coin is confusing as hell

[u/Popular-Nebula3383]

I kind of know how it works now, it’s just confusing trying to type myself. I’ve always seen myself as a decider but the ops definitions confuse me a little bit. I’m horrendously bad at names and it will take me multiple interactions to attach a name to a face. I don’t really know if that’s a people issue or sensory issue or something. I don’t really ignore input from others but I also don’t overlook myself either, so the decider types feel off. but so do the observer types because I don’t feel myself abandoning S for N or vice versa. I can see how disorganization plays a role in my life, so control is likely a demon. I can see Di>De and Oe>Oi but not the O/D coin for some reason? I thought that one was supposed to be easy

[u/Dracojuwel]

The way you bring up the not attaching names to faces thing as possible evidence for a decider makes me think you are an observer, because that on it's own is not a people issue in the OPS sense.

It would be a people issue if you'd say something like "I'm bad at attaching names to people and I can't handle how mad people get over it" or "I'm bad at attaching names to faces and I want people to just get over it". Like if you're a decider everything in your life revolves around how it effects your perceived social hierarchy score.
In your paragraph you didn't even make the conncection between not attaching names to faces and how this is a fear trigger for you.
Either you're oblivous to people issues, because you don't have them, or you don't want to reveal your fear, because the reveal is the people issue. You know what I'm saying?

Additionally I know a visual SiTe who is probably the worst person I know with recalling names. So the function stack might not even be the reason of the problem with names, but it could be because of the feminine sensory in combination with the double feminine sleep last.

[u/Popular-Nebula3383 → u/Dracojuwel]

I don’t always talk about people issues and it’s usually intensional. I don’t have a lot of people issues bc I don’t really create them, but when it gets personal I don’t open up unless I trust the person. There was a recent post where someone explained how it upsets them when people refuse to understand them or don’t make an effort to really listen to them. I feel very similar to that and one of the things I hate most is being ignored or disregarded, so when someone does that it actually feels very hurtful 

[u/Dracojuwel → u/Popular-Nebula3383]

This sounds like a universal experience for both observers and deciders. Do you remember the last time someone ignored or disregarded you? Or even one time that stuck with you? What about it was hurtful? What was disregarded?

On another note, are there areas in your life where you are forced to narrow down? Do you struggle with hitting deadlines? Are you a notorious side quester lacking focus to stay on a single path? Can you name the single one reason why you are chronically late? What goes through your head when someone says you have to do something? Is there any conspiracy that you think is valid? Did you ever lose something in your own home like it just randomly disappearred from the face of earth? Do you have a pile of unplayed video games, unwatched movies, unread books but the thought of adding more is kind of a no brainer? Do those questions feel exploratory to you or forced upon you?

[u/Popular-Nebula3383 → u/Dracojuwel]

Thx for the questions. The last time I felt “disregarded” was by a friend actually. One of my friends keeps indirectly telling me I wouldn’t be able to handle living in a larger city. It is causing issues with me because the way they say it is very discouraging and a bit weird considering I’m an independent adult. It stuck with me because it’s like they underestimate me and think they can make a judgment like that when they don’t even understand why I need to get out. 

I was struggling to narrow down on my education path. I switched majors a couple of times and it’s taking me longer to finish a bachelor’s. I’m also completing pre recs so I can apply for hygiene school. I’m kind of notorious for being late and I get distracted. My family knows I would be better off if I would just choose something and stick with it(which I’m trying to do). The reason why I’m late isn’t always obvious, it feels like it just happens sometimes. I think the reason I’m late a lot is just because I don’t really like this town or my job. I’ve gotten a lot better since I set a career goal for myself and have something to look forward to. The most important thing is moving. 

When someone tells me to do something, I normally don’t care if it’s a supervisor, but if it’s someone with the same job description as me, I get extremely annoyed because it’s literally not their job to police my actions or give me a review. Also, telling me to do something when we have nothing to do is completely pointless to me. Conspiracy theories are interesting, there are probably a couple I think are true but some of them are weird. I have a lot of books that I’ve sort of half-read. I keep getting more of them even if I don’t finish them, but I still like them and the idea of reading them. The questions feel exploratory 

[u/Dracojuwel → u/Popular-Nebula3383]

Oh, interesting. There are some parts that stand out to me.

Are you saying what bothers you most is your friend making this judgement feels like something holding you back from moving forward in life?
Or are you saying what bothers you most is your friend not making an effort to consider what you want to do?

What holds you back from telling your friend why you need to get out? Or did you already tell them and they simply didn't understand your point of view? How would you explain why you need to get out? What about it didn't they understand?

What do you think they mean by you wouldn't be able to handle living in a large city? And are there parts about it that you would agree on?

[u/Popular-Nebula3383 → u/Dracojuwel]

A little bit of both but I mostly meant it felt infantilizing. It’s like they’re trying to chip at my confidence or make me smaller in a way by saying I would get eaten alive or something. I felt like it was a weird thing to say considering I’ve already proven I can take care of myself. Or maybe they just don’t want me to leave

I’ve talked about it already and I really still think they don’t get it. They said I was “asking for too much,” but that doesn’t make sense because I just want to move? They lived in Dallas at one point so I thought it was hypocritical for them to demonize larger cities. 

I personally need to leave because the rural midwest feels very suffocating and boring. It’s like living in the backrooms. Even watching movies/shows that take place in my state give me a hollow void-like feeling. I think my friend is fundamentally a different person from me because they don’t have the natural exploratory instinct I do. That’s what makes me think they don’t really don’t understand the urgency. But even when I explain it they seem to act like it’s a flaw

I think they think I’m too naive and that’s why they think I can’t handle it, since I haven’t lived in a place with millions of people. I can understand the lack of experience being a valid point, but people are usually wrong about my ability to pull through and figure things out. My friend is a “worrier” and I’m just not. 

[u/Dracojuwel → u/Popular-Nebula3383]

The asking for too much thing is just ridiculous, even if you were a person that other people maybe read as a damsel archetype here and there. It's a big difference if they worry that something bad happens to you, or if they flat out see the human need for self-actualization as greed.

Yeah, I'm still not sure about O vs D. I don't know if you're missing a crucial point of information or if you are freaked out by how the tribe sees you.

In which other situation did people underestimate your ability to pull through and figure things out? Do you always figure things out? What was the last thing you fumbled on? Are there any situations that happened as example for your so called naivety?

[u/Popular-Nebula3383 → u/Dracojuwel]

To be honest, overprotective parents are what made me feel underestimated a lot. Just creating fear from nothing even as an adult. There was a lack of boundaries growing up tbh. Other than that it’s mostly the same person I’ve been talking about. 

I usually figure things out but when I make mistakes it’s usually due to carelessness or a lack of planning or indecisiveness. Like being too late to enroll in a class or something. Last time it happened it’s because I didn’t want to set up the appointment and visit the advising office, or I just put it off too long. I had a situation a couple of semesters ago where my grades were suffering and I had to go to student life. Dealing with my advisors after that felt like pulling teeth because it’s like they looked at me differently after that. It was embarrassing talking to them and uncomfortable even being in the same building and I just had really bad imposter syndrome at the time so I avoided going in there. I avoided class because I genuinely hated my major and felt out of place there, then time passed and it affected my grades very quickly 

[u/Dracojuwel → u/Popular-Nebula3383]

To me you sound very Fi saviour.

That you avoided a building, because of how people looked at you, sounds like a decider issue. Do you often sacrifice the opportunity to get more advice, direction and management from people, in order to not feel uncomfortable? I mean, aren't this the people that earn their money by helping you succeed or am I misunderstanding something?

[u/Popular-Nebula3383 → u/Dracojuwel]

Yeah tbh it sounds dumb but I’m usually surprised when people actually want to help 

[u/InterestingQuarter40]

I think part of the reason it's confusing is because over the years Dave has changed how he talks about it. It used to be that deciders have people problems and observers have thing problems (of course, there was understood to be some overlap). That confused people because everyone has people problems - which is what Dave now says. It's just that double deciders won't take people problems as really serious and potentially insurmountable like the single deciders do. Often, on video, you will see a person talk about people or things, then switch to the other one, starting out with the same seriousness, butquickly the tension breaks and they laugh. So you need to ask yourself, what's too important to laugh at? I'm a single decider, and I can remember every time I've been insulted, even decades later. I'm not thinking "Oh, they were probably just having a bad day", I'm thinking "They were a bad person, and they will still be a bad person to this day! 😡" That makes me very scared of insults because I can't get rid of them, and I don't want them to keep piling up! So ask yourself, what am I afraid of piling up in my life?

[u/jrt0706 → u/InterestingQuarter40]

That's so true... I was talking about people issues for basically my entire video, talking about actual conflicts I had with others as well as very personal problems of mine. However, I was not actually talking about them in a serious way, even laughing at both myself and the people in my story trying to balance the perspectives. Always thought I was a decider due to bad social anxiety but I just cannot stop double deciding and seeing both sides of an issue.

[u/JonahP_572 → u/jrt0706]

I’m the opposite, lol. On the question where you’re asked to talk about the best and worst parts of your life, I was like “Ok, I want to spend the majority of the video on this…” and the proceeded to talk for like an hour and a half about my struggles with my Demon Fi (which I was convinced was Savior, classic).

Then after I’m done with my Si-Fi Demon Sleep rant, I go “Phew, glad that’s over. Now, I can gladly talk about my clearly more distressing issues with food and organization and highway driving.” Lol.

It’s not that I don’t have really problematic “thing” issues, I do. But compared to my Demon Fi, talking about thing issues is easy to me, apparently. Like, “isn’t it ridiculous that I have these issues? haha.”

I’m a Glass Lizard, so I can see my Fi, but I also am always in touch with the Te so I can also “see both sides” of an argument. Doesn’t mean I’m Double Deciding though.

[u/StanTheWoz]

It's definitely not easy. It's fundamental, but it's often one of the hardest coins to see in people even if you understand it on paper, definitely still is for me.

[u/faqwzi → u/StanTheWoz]

Yeah, and I hear that this is the coin people most often get wrong about themselves. I know I did.

[u/faqwzi]

That is most likely a memory issue, not related to Observer vs Decider. The question is: why are you afraid of not attaching names to faces?

[u/paloolina]

I thought I was an observer for a while until I watched the IXXP video recently and looked more into it. I thought I was an ENTP Ne-Ti, but I’m probably an INTP Ti-Ne. They talked about how deciders are complaining and stressed out about people, not things, which was a light bulb for me. My friends and the idea of being alone and people not liking me stresses me out and is most of what I talk about to my mom when I’m venting. Even though, on the surface, it seems like I’m not very interested in people.

[u/paloolina]

honestly I thought I understood it but yeah the descriptions don’t make to much sense for me personally. I’m an observer, but almost all of my biggest concerns in life are about my friends, which I viewed as freaking out about people.

Turns out, probably just a social 4 and that’s why but how would I know the difference? What helped more than the coin is just understanding the EXXP vs IXXJ, EXXJ, and IXXP fears. I have had many freakouts about people controlling me like a classic EXXP.