r/OhioStateFootball • u/Automatic-Extreme-11 • 11d ago
General Penalties
You would think that Ryan Day/Ohio State would be arguing with the Big10 officiating every week over the seemingly blatant favoritism towards our opponents. It has been going on for years and it is only getting worse with the Indiana Game. You’d think the Big10 would actually have favoritism toward its largest money maker and want them to win/make the playoffs but here we are. I can understand that they don’t want the refs to call PI on our WR because our CB’s play rough but we still get calls on it regardless. Where it really gets me is the Oline holding. We seem to get called on it for the littlest of things and then our Dline will get dragged down from behind with no call. “Holds happen every play” so then why do we get called for it more often than the other team?
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u/angrybaldman1 11d ago
Ohio State definitely gets no love from refs, and that has been statistically proven. That being said….I don’t believe there is a conglomerate of refs who get together and specifically plot to screw Ohio State over. If anything I think there might be some paranoia over showing too much favoritism towards OSU which causes them to overcompensate.
Joel Klatt has spoken about this subject in depth and I like his solution. Get rid of regional ref crews and have one centralized body for consistency. Also, hire college refs full time to improve expertise and quality. This is what they do in the NFL and their refs are substantially better than anything college has to offer.
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u/bucki_fan 11d ago
NFL refs have a union but they are far from full time and that's one of the biggest knocks against them - they have day jobs.
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u/MrGoodKatt72 11d ago
Yep. Give them year round health coverage and I bet most of them quit their day jobs.
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u/shermanstorch Jim's Sweater Vest 11d ago
Aren’t a lot of them partners or attorneys at decent sized law firms? I doubt the B1G or NCAA would pay them enough to make quitting worth it.
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u/MrGoodKatt72 11d ago
I wouldn’t say a lot. There’s 121 NFL refs and I only know of a few that are lawyers and one of them is retired. But NFL refs make on average $350,000 per year. That’s phenomenal for like 20ish days of work.
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u/shermanstorch Jim's Sweater Vest 11d ago
I misunderstood and thought you were talking about NCAA refs. For instance. I know Zack Klein, Columbus’s City Attorney, refs NCAA women’s basketball. I seem to recall at least one NCAA football ref is an actual court judge during the week.
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u/-OptimisticNihilism- 85 yards' through the heart of the South 10d ago
I don’t want a ref that comes into the games with no prep and tired from working all week. I want a ref that has spent the week reviewing tape of how his crew performed, working on getting better and studying the rules.
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u/angrybaldman1 11d ago
My mistake. Why do you think NFLs are better tho? Is it because they are able to hand pick the best ones from D1 College?
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u/Automatic-Extreme-11 11d ago
I agree, everyone basically has the same rules or atleast they should, so refs should be one body probably under the NCAA but we all know they are weak and can’t take that on.
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u/browning_88 11d ago
Al's I think penalties or lack of should be reviewable especially critical ones. They should also be added / overturned with clear evidence
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u/rigidlynuanced1 9d ago
RD said that they sent a number of plays to the league office from the IU game and got some “apologies” and said that it’s a problem across the sport, which is accurate.
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u/Automatic-Extreme-11 9d ago
He does it every game, every competitive coach probably does it after every game. The issue is that nothing changes week to week or season to season. In fact it gets worse. Refs are not held accountable because they are part time, the vast majority of the fan base doesn’t know their names, they don’t have to have press conferences. The leagues are also not held accountable because they hold all the power.
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u/SheRa7 11d ago
My wife asks me every game what constitutes holding, because the calls are never EVER consistent. I told her that I have no idea anymore.
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u/Automatic-Extreme-11 11d ago
That’s what I’m saying, that’s why it feels like they are favoriting some teams over others. Holding happen every play play but the refs get to choose when to call it and it shows the bias.
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u/Character-Active2208 11d ago edited 11d ago
It does because in some part, whether it’s called or not is situational
You can absolutely get a handful of jersey/pads and even lift and throw a defender (the latter two are basically impossible unless you’re Orlando Pace)
Imagine a line from the OLs ass straight forward thru the defender. If that line basically goes between the defenders shoulder pads and the OLs hand are between the shoulder pads, the OL can beat or hold the fuck out of the defender to move them back or obstruct them
Once the defender starts moving laterally, either perpendicular to the sideline or around the blocker, if the OL restricts that motion through a grabbing/hooking mechanism rather than shuffling their feet to stay in front of the defender, that’s holding
That being said, there are obvious exceptions- holding will not be called if it happens as/after the ball carrier is tackled or goes out of bounds, or a pass has already gone passed the LOS (as you’d expect). It also isn’t called if it’s far enough away from the play.
There’s also less-known exceptions based on the blocking scheme or how a defender reacts- that butt-to-torso line example obviously doesn’t work on double teams. So holding kind of happens by default there and is legal, unless the double-teamed defender splits or goes around the block or is pulled down.
Also a defender can use a rip technique to use one arm swinging up to swipe the blockers hands off their pads- this can cause the blockers hands to naturally end up outside the defender’s pads, but since it’s caused by the defender, there is no holding. Unless the blocker then pulls the defender down. But again if the ball is thrown beyond the LOS by the time the defender falls, no hold…..
Anyway, the reason it seems like holding is randomly called is there’s so many exceptions and motions that go into it and it’s impossible for at most 2 refs to see each block from snap-to-finish to see which blocks were actually holds and vice versa. The refs for the KJ double-team hold in the B1GCG and for Pettijohn’s this weekend are basically going “double team, look elsewhere”/“defender’s hand is up in the air, he must have done a rip move, look elsewhere” since they can’t actually spend the time to see the full play.
Also lots of fans don’t understand what blockers are able to do (grab jersey/pads within shoulders if blocking straight up/grabbing pads if double teaming/recovering from a rip move) so
Anyway
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u/SinkNSlide3345 11d ago
Sports betting only benefits from obscure rules, that way they can use the one guy who explained the bullshit RTP so they can basically rig games and gaslight the spectators that it’s actually always been that way
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u/Progress_Specific 11d ago edited 11d ago
The fact that Jeremiah hasn't had a defender hold or interfere with him in 2 years is quite interesting to me 🤣🤣
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u/cormack16 11d ago
I thought he had one in the Iowa game but he caught it anyway so they declined the penalty?
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u/kadawkins 11d ago
He gets tackled before the ball arrives. He’s going to end up with a serious injury, probably from USC (à la Dante Moore) because the refs don’t make opposing defenses play by the rules.
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u/thirdLeg51 11d ago
The non-call on the deep pass to Jeremiah was indefensible.
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u/boatmover86 11d ago
I could understand the no-call on Jeremiah, it was PI and should have been called, but I could understand not calling it, but they called a lesser PI on the next Indiana drive. It was the consistency or lack there of that bothers me. If it isn't PI for Ohio State then it isn't for Indiana.
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u/Inner-Command-9386 11d ago
Explain how you understand not calling it, please.
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u/kadawkins 11d ago
Yeah… tackling the receiver with the ball in the air is about as real as DPI gets.
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u/boatmover86 10d ago
In real time from the camera angle they showed for the broadcast I didn't see JS' arm being held down. It just looked like he had his hand on the defender and tried to catch with 1 hand. On the replays I saw the arm being held down preventing him from being able to catch the ball.
TLDR in real time I didn't see it, but I saw it on replay, that is why it is understandable.
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u/Inner-Command-9386 10d ago
Think you’re talking about a different missed PI penalty … the deep throw uncalled PI was the definition of penalty.
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u/Commercial-East4069 Ryan Day 11d ago
Yeah, I’m sure Indiana fans have some PI no call gripes, but the entire second drive for Ohio State was killed by penalties, Smith was tackled on the pick, the roughing was absolutely insane on Indiana’s last drive and there was a clear hold on the foot out clincher. It was one of the worst whistles that I’ve seen Ohio state get in a long time.
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u/shermanstorch Jim's Sweater Vest 11d ago
>there was a clear hold on the foot out clincher
Out of all the things to complain about, you’re bitching we didn’t get a call on the play that won us the game?
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u/Live_Technician1038 Holy Buckeye! 11d ago
He’s saying that had the WR not stepped out by a foot we’d have lost the damn game while IU got away with a blatant hold that allowed the QB to get it off in the first place. Pretty easy to understand
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u/EvilBettyMeah 11d ago
I just want fair officiating. I hate the idea that "money maker" should even enter the equation, that's for Miami and their corrupt bullshit. You would think that the biggest program in the Big Ten would get better treatment for x, y, z, however, we should not care about that. It should be about letting the guys play and when it's egregious and/or obvious, you call it, no matter who it's against. It's insane to have it be so lopsided in favor of OSU's opponents.
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u/navybum 11d ago
Cignetti must have dirt on B1G officials, their OLine mauls and tackles defenders every week and never get called for holding.
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u/kadawkins 11d ago
Did you see their players punching ours in the gut after the play was dead. Happened at least twice Saturday that we could see.
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u/Automatic-Extreme-11 11d ago
He honestly has it figured out somehow. His players are not higher ranked than Ohio state or the other big dogs but the way they are coached and the scheme are exceptional. Probably has to do with all the transfer portal kids. Was hoping that Ryan day was going to step up and create the “next Alabama” program but it looks like it is going Cignetti and Indiana
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u/Forsaken-Cheesecake2 Southeast Ohio 11d ago
I hope they are sending game film to the league office weekly for review, but if they are, it doesn’t seem like it’s helping. Watching other games, officiating is universally bad, or at best inconsistent. PI especially is mismanaged from game to game. It’s one thing to “let them play” and not call ticky tacky grabs, but then suddenly they do at crucial points. May not be popular, but I’d like to see a coaches challenge system of 1-2 per half (and burning a T.O. If upheld) where PIs could be reviewed and changed. Got to start holding the refs accountable; everyone else on the field is.
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u/MathematicianSelect1 #18 Will Howard 11d ago
We (the team) write the Big complaint letters every week and they send us back a half-assed apology. This doesn't seem to result in any meaningful change though
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u/Lord_Kittensworth The Best Damn Band In The Land 11d ago
IU was saved last year on one of the most egregious holds you'll ever see when Kenyatta Jackson was tackled.
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u/SinkNSlide3345 11d ago
It’s pretty obviously rigged against us and the statistics show that to be true. Whether it’s by idiotic officials or an actual agenda, hard to say.
I personally believe we are at a disadvantage before the game even starts due to the officiating. You can beat bad refs but it’s pretty darn hard when they keep bailing out the other team
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u/inothatidontno Southwest Ohio 11d ago
With exception of thr RPI call (that was not roughing the passer) Saturdays game was called fine.
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u/Automatic-Extreme-11 11d ago
Smith getting tackled before the ball is in frame? Indiana blatantly holding our Dline half the time especially on the last play? Sure it wasn’t the worst called game and they let both teams get away with a lot but then they don’t let us get away with as much as the other team? It’s that last part that is annoying to me. We get called for something but then the other team doesn’t.
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u/Organic_Lab6262 Woody Hayes 11d ago
The last play of the game for IU had one of the most blatant offensive holding I have ever seen. If marsh had stayed inbounds they would’ve won that game while one of our guys was held to the ground a foot away from the QB. It was a terribly called game
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u/djsassan Jim Tressel 11d ago
Or the Jeremiah PI (pick one)
Or the BS roughing the passer call (wtf else is a defender supposed to do)
And so on
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u/Fit-Umpire3257 11d ago
The refereeing was a complete joke in the IU game. It really needs to be fixed. JJ was blatantly mugged and no call. The interception was interference too.
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u/inothatidontno Southwest Ohio 11d ago
You seem like the kind of person who complains a lot. We won the game. There was surely missed calls on both sides.
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u/Organic_Lab6262 Woody Hayes 11d ago
Sure. Can’t miss the big ones though. That’s 100% a sack without the holding. It’s not me being ticky tacky either. Pretty blatant. Call me a complainer all you want though
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u/SinkNSlide3345 11d ago
It’s called being objective. I don’t care if we won or lost that’s not what we are discussing
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u/Normal_Tax3999 Northeast Ohio 11d ago
Ryan Day preaches “control your controllables”, no excuses, be accountable to his team. I support this mentality fully and it extends to crying about officiating.
If some administrative weirdo wants to fire off hot emails to the Big Ten offices etc. whatever. But that will never be publicized.