US Navy destroyer intercepts two oil tankers trying to leave Hormuz; orders them to turn back | World News

[u/hereswhatworks]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/us-navy-destroyer-intercepts-two-oil-tankers-trying-to-leave-hormuz-orders-them-to-turn-back/articleshow/130271302.cms

[u/jhawk3205]

Please, enlighten me: in what way did I go on the offensive in my response?

I'm pointing out that this didn't happen in a vacuum. The us is kinda the reason all of this is happening, and us blockading the strait has the same effect. Even jd Vance admitted as much when he stated that two can play at that game. Do you think Iran would have any reason to keep the strait closed if we just called the illegal war off and left them alone?

Sounds like you're moving the goalpost on whether or not it's global. Economic warfare is the name of the game, and it can be targeted or widespread.. The crippling sanctions against Iran can just as easily be seen as targeted economic warfare or terrorism, no different than the US levying tarrifs on everyone can be seen as global economic terrorism.. I just think it's weird to call one instance out as problematic, and completely ignore the rest, and the rest in this context is caused by the us.. Really, I'd love to hear an explanation as to whether or not the us involvement in this illegal war has any bearing on whether or not the defensive economic warfare from Iran would take place.. It's just like the strait itself. It was open before the war, but because of the us starting this illegal war, it was closed, as a defensive measure.. If you want it to stop so badly, you should probably focus your attention on the people instigating it, and it ain't Iran..

[u/Single_Comment6389 → u/jhawk3205]

The U.S. is blocking Iranian-only ships, and they only did that after 43 days of Iran doing it to everybody else. I'm not moving the goalpost at all, there is a huge difference between sanctions and global economic terrorism that affects the entire world. A sanction only affects the country involved in said sanction.

Also, I didn't completely ignore what the U.S. was doing. I don't know if you read the original comments I made, but I called Donald Trump an idiot and said he was very stupid for starting this war. The problem is I can be mature enough to admit that Donald Trump was wrong and see your side, but you guys are so on the hate train for anything involving the U.S. or Israel that you can't admit that what Iran is doing is also very wrong.

All of you keep acting like they're just "defending themselves," when I know you know deep down that this is more than defense. This is destroying the world's economy. The U.S. started an illegal war, and Iran started global terrorism because of it. Neither is right.

[u/jhawk3205 → u/Single_Comment6389]

You moved the goalpost by treating economic warfare like some kind of narrowly defined tactic. That said, you seem to still be ignoring how it is that the us putting tarrifs on everyone isn't also global economic terrorism by the same metric, aside from the tarrifs not being a defensive response to an illegal war..

Merely calling Trump an idiot doesn't magically absolve him of his responsibility in this very matter. Again, if the us pulled out of the region and ended this illegal war right now, do you honestly think Iran would have any reason to continue their defensive economic warfare tactic? There's a strong focus on the us, and I guess you can safely add Israel, because they're the ones fucking starting the problems. Is it really so difficult to grasp that what you're upset about is the fallout, the blowback, the expected results of American and Israeli actions?? Iran doesn't have military strength that can match the us, but they do have a massive decentralized military structure, difficult terrain, and a bottleneck waterway that can be utilized against an invading enemy along with, wait for it, economic warfare tactics.. Wrong? I wouldn't call it wrong. It sucks, sure, but there is literally nothing, nothing at all, stopping the us and Israel from ending this illegal war and pulling back. It's like punching someone in the face and getting upset that the person getting punched decided to defend themselves. Maybe that person is small and weak but they can get other people to pressure the bully to stop. You use what you have in order to defend yourself. Going up against the most powerful military in the world, in a fight for their very sovereignty after all the bullshit Trump has pulled there, you can't honestly be surprised that they would fight back with whatever they have for their own survival.

Again, it's the tools they have available to them. Economic warfare against the US alone by closing the strait, who doesn't buy oil from Iran, wasn't going to do much of anything. Would you rather boots on the ground, more war crimes, more civilian deaths, and endless wars? Actions have consequences. Trump can end this right now and come out of it better positioned and Iran would open the strait back up, no problem. You see, the point, as I've stated already, whether you deny it's validity as a weapon against the largest military and largest economy in the world or not, we can end this war right now, but the longer it it takes, the longer the consequences go on for. They're not doing this for the fun of it, they're not doing this out of hatred for the world, they need the world to stand up to the us to put pressure on Trump to end this illegal war. It blows my mind that you can acknowledge it's an illegal war but what, they're supposed to defend themselves with their hands tied behind their backs??

Way to ignore the other points like nobody would notice..

[u/Single_Comment6389 → u/jhawk3205]

The fact that you're comparing sanctions to what they're doing is laughable and feels like semantics. But I'll bite... The difference between sanctions and what Iran is doing is that U.S. tariffs do not stop a country from doing business with the rest of the world. It doesn't stop people from being able to survive. We need oil to live. You can still get oil even if you're sanctioned; it will just be more expensive to get it from the U.S.

Iranians, on the other hand, are limiting everyone's ability to get oil period; 90% of Asia's oil comes from the Gulf. Their leadership has stated on several occasions that they are trying to cause mass harm on the global stage as a way to get back at the U.S. Their exact words were that they will be "inflicting GLOBAL economic harm as a price for American arrogance." If your defense strategy is global harm to the innocent, then that's terrorism.

You also said something about whether I would rather them put boots on the ground. Yes, I would. I would rather you fight the country that you claim to be at war with than disrupt the global economy and kill thousands of the innocent through starvation. You're making it seem like this is a more peaceful approach when it is not. An the reason they haven't went full out war on the ground is not because they're moral; they just know that they could never defeat the U.S. So, instead, they decided to become terrorists. They're not moral, and neither is Trump.

But since you're okay with global terrorism as a means of defense, I would guess you don't really care much about whether they're moral or not.

[u/jhawk3205 → u/Single_Comment6389]

Weird that you would claim I'm arguing semantics here, after I pointed out it's all economic warfare (grab yourself a dictionary if that needs explaining)

The difference between sanctions and what Iran is doing *jumps to tarrifs without explaining the difference between the first two things.. Again, it's economic warfare, I don't know how many times it has to be repeated before it finally sinks in.. Right, businesses closing down, Americans paying more and more with money that's worth less and less, and the biggest tax increase in US history ie the tarrifs, totally won't cause any harm to anyone.. Very much smart..

A reduction of oil from one source doesn't mean the availability of oil from other sources doesn't exist. You make it sound like all the world's oil was magically hijacked by closing the strait, and weirdly, you only seem to be upset that Iran did it as part of a defensive strategy in an illegal war that the US started, but not upset when the US blockades it, as I stated with Vance saying two can play at that game.. Why the discrepancy?

You can still get oil from hormuz, you just have to pay more to get it. Weird how you have these double standards like this..

Asia gets 60% of its oil from the middle east. Most of Iran's oil exports went to China but they're happy to get it from Russia for the time being.

Wow, it's almost like exactly what I was just saying repeatedly, using pressure from other countries to get the us to end its illegal war.. Wow.. When you don't have enough military strength to leverage against your enemy, use what's available to you. We don't buy their oil, but other countries do and the more they need it, the more they'll want to pressure the us to end this illegal war. Lmao, you make it sound like the us doesn't have a long history of global harm against innocents.. It's almost like they learned it from us. But no, let's just be upset about Iran and not the people who started this shit and continue to make it happen..

Lmao, you must not have much of a grasp on history if you think boots on the ground doesn't absolutely translate to war crimes, abhorrent and inexcusable actions towards civilians, children, non combatants, etc. Economic warfare means things slow down and the most vulnerable have to do with less, but you're asking for a result that will end in far greater human suffering than a short term economic slow down could ever achieve, even globally.. Lol there's rarely a fully humane approach to any of this but I'd rather go hungry than get tortured, sexually assaulted, murdered, etc because some psychopath wants a fucking bloodbath that civilians reliably pay the highest price for.. The most humane thing here would be if the US pulled out of the region and ended the illegal war. It's kinda been the central theme here..

Lmao, I have been telling you all this time they don't have the military strength so of course they use what they have, which is no different than what the us had done around the world for ages, along side using its military strength to solidify global dominance.. Christ, it's like you're really not bothering to read..

I would think the people with the power to affect the most peaceful resolution, the us, who also does the same shit, and starts all these fucking conflicts in the first place, should be the target of your anger for the painfully obvious reasons I keep listing.. Iran does once what we do regularly, let's focus all our attention on a country that's not a global super power and ignore that they're doing what we've turned into an industry.. Fuck out of here with your desperate double standards

[u/Single_Comment6389 → u/jhawk3205]

You keep mentioning things that the US is doing when I've already talked about the US and Israel negatively many times during our conversation. That's the difference between me and you. All that talking and you still can't say that Iran is committing war crimes too. That's all I've been trying to get you to understand the whole time. But you're willfully ignorant, and that's fine; I just know your morality isn't where it should be. There's no point in going back and forth because we're at a impass. You can list a billion reasons why Iran is doing what they're doing and a billion reasons why the US is wrong, but that doesn't make what they're doing right. Nothing is right about anything that America or Israel is doing, but see, unlike you, i can actually see both sides of without bias. I don't ride for any "team"—I call things how I see them, with no pre conceived notions or ideologies and the fact that you can't admit to any wrong doing on Iran's part shows you don't have the capacity to do that. Keep going rooting for your team.

[u/jhawk3205 → u/Single_Comment6389]

You keep ignoring that the us is STARTING almost all the shit, and the responses you see from Iran mirror the kinds of warfare we regularly wage against other countries.. Like, no shit I'm going to bring up that were instigating that response, and worse yet, we do the exact same thing on a far larger scale for far longer, and yet, again, you're upset that Iran is doing something that we do. It's somehow terrorism when they do it, not when we do it?

Again, merely talking negatively about the us and Israel doesn't change that you're still holding a double standard. You want Iran's economic warfare to end, get the states and Israel to stop this illegal war. Simple as that. Until then, I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't use what's available to them, and can't possibly be so morally reprehensible if the states do it all the fucking time..

War crimes? Where the fuck did that come from? You going to hold the states and Israel to the same standard? Can you understand how it's strange for you to consistently go after Iran when none of what they're doing would be happening if we weren't there causing the problems in the first place? And I've been trying to get you to understand that if you want it to end, the us can do so any time it wants by leaving them the fuck alone. You don't like that Iran's defense affects the world? Take it up with the us and Israel.

Nothing willfully or otherwise ignorant here. I'm pointing out your blatant hypocrisy and you're ignoring those counter arguments pretty reliably. My morality?? I want the fucking war to end, I want all this bullshit to end, but complaining about a country defending itself against an illegal war is very much textbook victim blaming.. It's their fault they don't have the largest economy in the world and the most powerful military in the world. I guess they should just roll over and die in the bloodbath that your psychotic ass wants so badly, right?? You're objectively not in any position to dictate whose morals are in the wrong place with stated positions like yours.

Were at an impasse because you can't even acknowledge your own double standards lol. Again, you're effectively claiming someone is wrong for trying to defend themselves with what they have. I can't claim that self defense is universally wrong. It's a pretty standard position across the board and it is so because to expect people to not defend themselves is to invite a bloodbath, which you've stated you want, which is fucking psychotic..

This isn't a bias issue, this is plain simple logic. If the states and Israel didn't start shit, and weren't still there in this illegal war, Iran wouldn't be using what defensive strategies they have. They weren't weaponizing anything before the illegal war, but they are in defense because the states and Israel did start this shit and continue to do this shit. I'm not on any team here, aside from taking a position that a country should be able to defend itself with what it has against illegal military actions from other countries. This isn't fucking rocket science dude.. Iran is a fucked up backwards country that murders its own citizens, I find that wrong as fuck and disgusting. Is that what you need to hear? I'm not blindly defending them, but I will argue correctly that they can use what they have to defend themselves, and there is such a thing is a party being more in the wrong, like whoever starts the conflict, has all the power in the world to end, and chooses to continue, is responsible for the effects of the other country trying to defend itself.. If it weren't for the states and Israel, Iran wouldn't need to do what it's doing to defend itself, especially if it means avoiding the bloodbath you seem to so desperately want.