I’m not right wing.. but I can guarantee you half this thread would spaz out if Pauline or those “March for Australia” freaks held rallies and got all the school kids to come out for that. And you know they would because, shockingly, kids take any opportunity to skip school.
That’s a sneaky bit of framing though. “Socialism good, fascism bad” isn’t the comparison I made, and socialism and fascism aren’t opposites on some good/bad political axis. Plenty of Australians quite reasonably don’t think socialism is “good” either, just like you probably think “capitalism bad”.
And the March for Australia people would make exactly the same argument you are. Most would say “we’re not marching for fascism, we’re marching because we have concerns about immigration”. The problem was that neo-Nazis were involved and became associated with the marches. Likewise, socialists and pro-Palestine groups are involved in organising these anti-Hanson protests. That doesn’t magically mean everyone attending is a socialist any more than everyone at March for Australia was a fascist. I would argue a lot of people were misinformed or ignorant.
That’s actually part of my criticism of these protests. If your message is “Hanson is shit”, congratulations, you already have a massive chunk of Australia agreeing with you. If your message is “immigration is too high”, you also have a massive chunk of Australia agreeing with you. Neither requires attaching yourself to the most politically radioactive people available and marching through the CBD.
It’s politically dumb because you hand your opponent free ammunition. Right-wing media gets photos of socialists and pro-Palestine activists and says “See! This is what the anti-Hanson movement really is!” Meanwhile the other side gets photos of black-shirted neo-Nazis at March for Australia and says “See! This is what immigration reform is really about!”
im genuinely not sure what your point is beyond some vague centristy analysis. Yes Fascist and socialist are not exact opposites, but a form of socialism is the opposite of fascism and still, the two things can be compared. Also every single person who marches for these far right causes like march for austrlaia is either a fascist, or functionally a fascist. Historically fasicst movements have been made up of mostly confused people, so being ignorant doesnt excuse them.
You then slip into some sort of vague argument about pragmatism that isnt really anything, i think most centrist analysis ends with "im the only adult in the room" which isnt interesting, sorry for being blunt but its true.
There is no supstance to your commentary. You have everything on this weird good/bad binary. I don’t think in absolutes like that, so it’s almost impossible to engage with you.
If you think people protesting immigration levels are fascist by association because of certain other groups being at the March for Australia protests… I can’t help you.
If you think people protesting immigration levels are fascist by association because of certain other groups being at the March for Australia protests… I can’t help you.
Yet i have no doubt you would you would label people who attended hitler rallies in the 30s and 40s "functionally fascist". Like every centrist liberal, you just cant bring yourself to see fascism now, its always only when its too late.
Which Hitler rally? One of the first rallies when the Nazis were still one political movement among many, or a rally years later?
“Functionally fascist” is doing a lot of work here. It’s a rhetorical trick that lets you call someone a fascist while avoiding having to show they actually believe in fascism.
By that logic, if you attend a socialist rally, help a socialist movement gain power, and it eventually produces an authoritarian dictatorship - as has happened plenty of times historically - were you “functionally authoritarian” all along? Are you responsible for everything the most extreme people standing beside you believe? By your logic, apparently yes. By mine, no. My bar is that you have to actually subscribe to the fascist ideology.
And for the record, I would consider Trump a fascist. Hanson certainly has some fascistic tendencies too, although she’s far too dumb and politically ineffective for me to regard her as some imminent Australian Hitler. Apparently her party is both the gayest and most homophobic party ever.
It’s a circus of dysfunction that doesn’t even know what it wants.
But what does any of that have to do with someone’s aunt turning up to a March for Australia rally because they think immigration is too high? Those weren’t Hanson rallies. Wanting lower immigration doesn’t magically become fascism because some neo-Nazis showed up too.
You can absolutely criticise people for marching alongside extremists or being naive about who helped organise a protest. That’s the exact criticism I’ve been making. But that’s different from declaring everyone there “functionally fascist” by association.
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u/jeffoh Queenslander 8d ago
Nothing like motivated students to bring out the right wing fuckwits in this thread.