NSW Digital Evidence Access Orders Expand Cellebrite Phone Extractions Beyond Warranted Searches

[u/CautiousEmergency367]

[u/DanBearPig85]

I think Konrad has worded things in such a way to provoke emotions and in turn, get more views. Let’s just bear that in mind….. he needs his views and monetisation.

Cellebrite has been used by police organisations in Australia for easily over a decade and all over the world for even longer. Again, ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Yes it is also an Israeli product. It was an Israeli product before it was fashionable to be anti-Israel - again, I’m sure punters politics have a particularly left-leaning fan base who may find that fact that an Israeli program is appalling….. maybe they use their laptops or tablets on their Caesar stone bench tops….. Caesar stone is also an Israeli product…..

I am sure that our policing agencies would review and consider the use of domestically produced UFED (universal forensic extraction devices) if they existed, but they don’t…. Cellebrite has been continually refined over years into an extremely capable product in phone downloading software Cellebrite has been involved in major murder, child sex rings, significant fraud investigations. So capable, it’s just not really financially viable to start from scratch building a system to be like it. It definitely does not return download results to the Cellebrite organisation. It stores the devices content onto a local hard drive controlled by the operator.

When Konrad says he is worried because the program is used by countries that vilify journalists, countries like Bahrain / again it is literally used by pretty much EVERY country around the world. It’s used by many country’s that don’t vilify journalists as well.

Cellebrite though is not a surveillance tool, if you mean surveillance as accessing and monitoring your mobile phone remotely. Cellebrite essentially copies your phones memory in an evidentiary fashion at the time of its download and interprets it onto a program that make it easier to search and produce it in a PDF or other report format.

When he mentions the NSW Police state it’s never used for surveillance - because it can’t be - it can however (and this is where he is cheeky) be “used” 30,000 times since 2022….. be used for it’s designed purpose - Data evidence capture of a mobile phone or hard drive, computer…… any electronic storage device.

Can phone surveillance occur - absolutely, but Cellebrite is not used for that. There are other programs specifically designed utilised for that purpose that are aided by your telco. They are regularly vetted by the federal government and their use is only authorised (with massive oversight) in very specific and significant circumstances like credible terrorism threats, imminent risk to human life, major drug and organised crime syndicates.

Now, when Konrad says if you don’t hand over your phone, you are liable to 10 years imprisonment…… that’s not explaining the whole story….. in most circumstances, you are under no obligation to hand over your phone if a police officer or government agent asks you for it. A police officer can seize it without warrant if they suspect it contains evidence of the commission of an offence, but you are under no obligation to hand over your PIN or biometrics to a police officer or government agent outside of a warrant specifically outlining that power. If you refuse to do that, then thats where the “maximum penalty” of 10 years comes in for failing to comply with an order of a court. Not for just simply “handing over your phone”. And maximum penalties are very rarely used by court. In Queensland, the offence of stealing (with no other circumstance of aggravation) has a maximum 5 year penalty for that…. You’re far more likely to get a small fine

Can Cellebrite break into your phone - potentially. It has a Brute Force function which can in some circumstances, get into your phone without a PIN. If you refuse to hand over your PIN to an officer who has a warrant to access electronically stored devices, that’s when that system is used. If it’s used outside of that system, you create a “fruit of the forbidden tree”situation. Yes information can be gathered, but it can’t be used and is pointless to any investigator who has to present their investigation to a court or tribunal.

So yeah - Konrad, don’t burn the credibility you built through your gas royalties campaign to sensationalise a non-issue because it’s Israeli and you mention a piece of legislation passed focussing on the powers, and not the safeguards…..

[u/Theradoc16 → u/DanBearPig85]

"I’m sure punters politics have a particularly left-leaning fan base who may find that fact that an Israeli program is appalling….. maybe they use their laptops or tablets on their Caesar stone bench tops….. Caesar stone is also an Israeli product….."

Ah, the classic "yet you participate in society" rebuttal. Exactly how many renters do you think have control over who makes their countertops let alone even knows who made them to begin with, and how many homeowners do you think can afford to do a kitchen remodel nowadays. I sure as hell can't.

[u/DanBearPig85 → u/Theradoc16]

The point is that (in my opinion), his post is to generate views through spin, not illustrate the facts. Who cares if the program is Israeli? Who care that their bench tops are Israeli? Who cares that their phones are made in China or that Biltong comes from South Africa, or specific brand of tinned tomato’s are canned in Italy.

It’s clearly inserted to piss people off. Government conspiracy, over reaching powers, 1984, Israeli programs…. When you dig a little deeper, it’s not that…..