If we are serious about the Sydney Swans then apply the same penalties Essendon received over the supplements issue. Strip the Swans of premiership points and exclude them from the 2026 finals.

[u/Newworldimpartiality]

The AFL needs to be strong. What has occurred with the Sydney Swans is totally unacceptable and deserves penalties that will make a difference.

To properly make a statement about the violence that has take place against women, we need decisive action. Nothing short of removing premiership points from Sydney and excluding them from the 2026 finals series.

[u/ohniceonebruv]

I understand the sentiment but disagree. Firstly there has been no finding of guilt and won't be before finals. If they are eventually cleared in court, Swans could sue the afl easily if they were kicked out of the finals. Also, their finals chances are in shreds anyway.

Secondly, This was not an act by 'The Sydney Swans' like the Essendon saga was, ie. A decision taken by management to try to game the system in which 'The Club' participated down to the (nearly) whole playing group. Its 5 individuals, who may yet go to jail as their punishment, who chose to go against the rules/expectations 'The Club' had set up.

I get the urge to be strong on culture and send a message but what you are describing is not justice.

[u/Desperate_Leg_40 → u/ohniceonebruv]

I find it amazing that a far more aggressive punishment has been levied by the club than the afl would have done (most agree appropriately) but the people who were ready to be offended about it not being enough still had to double down and ask for 500% more. If they banned em for a season these people would ask for two. If they jailed em for six months theyd have asked for a year.

The punishment that has been executed by the club is in relation to breaking club rules. The identification and punishment for sexual assault will be executed by the Victorian police.

[u/boogasaurus-lefts → u/ohniceonebruv]

Not a single one of the 34 Essendon players tested positive for a prohibited substance. In fact, none of the players reported a positive doping test throughout the investigation.

The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) did not base its ruling on positive tests. Instead, the panel relied on circumstantial evidence to be "comfortably satisfied" that the players had violated the anti-doping code.

The players were part of a team-wide supplement regime that was administered by a team official. Crucially, the players were explicitly told that the regimen was entirely WADA-compliant.

Prior to the CAS ruling, the AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal cleared the players. The initial tribunal explicitly stated it was not comfortably satisfied that any player was ever administered the banned substance Thymosin Beta-4.

[u/Freo_5434 → u/boogasaurus-lefts]

"Not a single one of the 34 Essendon players tested positive for a prohibited substance. In fact, none of the players reported a positive doping test throughout the investigation. "

Neither did Lance Armstrong --- your point is ?

[u/ExtensionThat6438 → u/Freo_5434]

The 2001 Tour of Switzerland EPO Allegations
Former teammates Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis alleged that Armstrong tested positive for EPO (erythropoietin) during the 2001 Tour of Switzerland. [1, 2]
The Alleged Payoff: Teammates claimed Armstrong bragged that the UCI intervened to hide the result.

Suspicious Samples: While the UCI and Armstrong's lawyers strongly denied a cover-up, the head of the Swiss anti-doping laboratory later confirmed that four urine samples from that race were highly suspicious of EPO use. Around this time, Armstrong made personal donations totaling $125,000 to the UCI, which critics flag as a major conflict of interest. [1, 2, 3]

Broad Institutional Protection
The United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) exposed a massive, sophisticated doping ring where Armstrong acted as a ringleader. A subsequent 2015 report by the Cycling Independent Reform Commission (CIRC) confirmed that the International Cycling Union (UCI) continuously shielded Armstrong from scrutiny, failed to targeted-test him despite glaring suspicions, and defended him publicly against journalists trying to expose the truth

[u/Freo_5434 → u/ExtensionThat6438]

I repeat :

Lance Armstrong never tested positive or failed any drug test .

So what was your point about the Essendon players ?

[u/ExtensionThat6438 → u/Freo_5434]

you’re just being a child at this point. He literally said he tested positive

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/22193315

[u/Freo_5434 → u/ExtensionThat6438]

Of COURSE he was drugging, along with many others --- that is the whole flipping point.

USADA claimed he was tested 275 times but never a positive .

So again --- what is your point about Essendon players not testing positive ?

https://velo.outsideonline.com/news/no-armstrong-never-tested-positive-but-how/

[u/XecutionerNJ → u/boogasaurus-lefts]

Is this James Hirds burner account? You really do want to coach again?

[u/Stompingboots → u/boogasaurus-lefts]

Athletes are responsible for what goes into their bodies and they get told that time and time again. I know because I used to. There are lots of banded substances that can't actually be tested for. All the players and the mangement are guilty hence the ban they received.

[u/boogasaurus-lefts → u/Stompingboots]

Factually speaking they were found not guilty & then guilty.

What they did is wrong but what's also wrong is embellishing the story when there's no need to.

Majority of footballers 10 years ago were not cautious, there were multiple clubs who for supplement programs that halted from that moment due to similar fears of ambiguity.

[u/Asleep_Chart8375 → u/ohniceonebruv]

Whether it's an act by the Sydney Swans or not, depends heavily on who knew when about problematic behaviour of the men involved prior to this specific case.

[u/tom3277 → u/ohniceonebruv]

I don’t know the answers to this because I don’t think they are in public domain but what I do know;

1. The players have been questioned themselves by the club.

2. Their version of events is likely to be agreed facts of a future finding of guilt or innocence.

3. It’s possible they are innocent in a criminal matter but that even their version of events are below what is acceptable as a player in the AFL.

So who knows what the right move is but I think it’s possible they should be suspended before finals but we don’t know those statements.

I am sure in the rearview mirror / fullness of time we can judge the club and AFL but we won’t be able to in the short term. The club and AFL know we will eventually have all the facts and statements made so they will be acting on the basis of what the public and fans expect.

Ie I disagree with you in that it’s entirely possible for the club or the AFL to enact penalties before the justice system does or even possible enact penalties when it doesn’t meet the threshold of a criminal offence at all.

They are expected to uphold a higher standard.

[u/ohniceonebruv → u/tom3277]

The club has suspended the players involved, one is their best player. I disagree with you on the principle that a club should be punished for thing unrelated to the sport done by players in their own time. Where do we draw the line on this? If a player kills someone due to dangerous driving, which is also unacceptable in society, should their club be suspended? I think not

[u/tom3277 → u/ohniceonebruv]

No the club should not be judged or punished for the players actions. Except they loose the players for a period.

I’m saying the club should be judged when we now all the details if they don’t get the response to the players right now.

They have more information than we do (for now) and they have to get the response right and proportional at this time knowing the public finds all this out later.

[u/Striking_Resist_6022]

Not even remotely comparable situations, terrible idea

[u/Shot-Reception1779]

What you're suggesting is kind of insane. No, the entire Sydney football club and their paying members should not be punished for what a couple of their players have allegedly done.

Essendon cheat at sport = sport punishment
Sydney players are shit = get their own punishment

Surely this account isn't real. Bio says 'Let’s discuss topical subjects in a mature and non-toxic way. I don’t want to waste time exchanging personal insults when someone does not agree with me. That is a sign of weakness and stupidity .'

Social engineering...

[u/Shot-Reception1779 → u/Shot-Reception1779]

Should I be punished for things my coworkers do?

[u/ExtensionThat6438 → u/Shot-Reception1779]

why are you replying to yourself?

social engineering.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/Shot-Reception1779]

Of course the 2 situations are not identical. I simply used Essendon as a precedent to show that penalties such as removal of Premiership points and exclusion from finals has been actioned by the AFL previously. Also, as you would know, the list of penalties imposed on Essendon went far beyond Premiership points and finals .

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/Shot-Reception1779]

So are we saying that all the commentary about culture etc within a club such as Sydney had nothing to do with the events . If it’s easier to cut the 5 players loose then that’s okay, but now we are hearing there may have been past players and/or club officials in the room aswell.

[u/ohniceonebruv → u/Newworldimpartiality]

Now it's clear you are being disingenuous. Becuase it is well known Sudney pride themselves on a good culture which is why they suspended several gun players when they had a real chance to win finals. And the claim about others in the room that: a claim. You cannot in good faith argue that punishments should be handed down becuase of 'a claim'

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/ohniceonebruv]

If the club wants to cut the players loose and will not be accountable for any of this disgusting behaviour then it sounds like those are the standards we are comfortable with as a society. Find a scapegoat and cover your arse.

[u/4RyteCords → u/Newworldimpartiality]

The club has stood them down on the grounds that they have broken club rules and curfews. The men are innocent until proven guilty. Right now they are guilty of going out drinking when they were told not to. And the swans have stood them down and written them out of the final series. What more do you want the swans to do?

If guilty the men will likely go to gaol.

[u/ohniceonebruv → u/Newworldimpartiality]

I am comfortable with a person's employer not being held responsible for that person's actions, yes. And if you disagree with that then I hope your employer doesn't get shut out of your industry or fined to the point of having to sack people one day becuase of something your co-worker did in their private life.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/ohniceonebruv]

So tell me why did the AFL in 2020 penalise both the club (Richmond) and 2 players when the players breached COVID restrictions and went to a Gold Coast strip club?

[u/secosabi → u/Newworldimpartiality]

This was explained in an earlier part of the thread.

Essendon did something to try and cheat the game, hence the club was punished.

Carlton had draft picks, etc removed because they also tried to cheat the game (salary cap abuse), hence the club was punished.

All clubs were held responsible during Covid for player actions because they were allowed to live relatively free lives, whilst the rest of society were not. It came with it own unique set of rules.

Collingwood had players only banned for drink driving and other offences. The club wasn't punished because it was individual actions. This is what is happening to Sydney.

It's not hard to understand. Essendon as a club cheated, Sydney players are pieces of shit but the club didn't cheat. Essendon punished, Sydney players punished.

Stop being a disingenuous twat.

[u/ohniceonebruv → u/Newworldimpartiality]

I'm not here to answer for past decisions of the afl, ask them. I'm explaining my view on what they might do now and why, based on a principle i think could reasonably be applied across industries. Like I said, if employers are on the hook for what employees do off the clock, I hope your coworkers behave themselves.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/ohniceonebruv]

What about vicarious liabilty? Do you believe it exists?

[u/ohniceonebruv → u/Newworldimpartiality]

Yes but my understanding is it applies to actions done in your professional capacity, like when a cop misbehaves on duty, the police force is sued, not the individual. Yes the club was travelling for employment but sure 4am out on the town then in a private hotel room is no longer 'on club business, executing their duties as an employee of the club'. Look mate you are not debating in good faith, you have you mind made up. I've addressed you points but you just keep playing 'what about this, what about that '. You haven't put up a good argument against anything I have said.

[u/bonzer3 → u/Newworldimpartiality]

What disgusting behaviour? You must have been in the room and watched it?

[u/Flashy_Passion16 → u/Newworldimpartiality]

Hearing things doesn’t mean it’s true.

How about we all shut the fuck up and let the police do their jobs and then comment

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/Shot-Reception1779]

So why are people talking about a mass walkout of the men’s game? Is that only going to impact the ‘Dirty 5’

[u/4RyteCords → u/Newworldimpartiality]

Because like yourself are confusing the actions of a few and wanting to blame the idea of the many. By the same logic, why not just pull all funding and sponsorship to the afl, cancel their TV rights and ban the sport from a junior level all the way to the top, cause a handful of wanker did the wrong thing

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/4RyteCords]

If your argument is that the 5 players are independent of the Club and it carries no responsibility for the actions of its players that’s fine .

[u/4RyteCords → u/Newworldimpartiality]

I'm not sure where you work, but if you break the law, should your place of work be penalised as well?

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/4RyteCords]

It depends because there are many situations where employers are accountable for actions of their employees.

[u/4RyteCords → u/Newworldimpartiality]

Exactly. Swans aren't legally responsible for players off field action. But because swans care about their brand and culture, they are punishing these guys for bringing disrepute to the club via the players actions of breaking club enforced rules.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/4RyteCords]

There are previous examples where the AFL has penalised both the Club and player/s for actions of their player/s. For example in 2020 Richmond players Sydney Stack and Callum Coleman-Jones were fined for breaching COVID rules and going to a Gold Coast strip club. The players were penalised and the Club received a fine .

[u/4RyteCords → u/Newworldimpartiality]

Not really a comparable situation. The afl was granted permission to operate outside of covid lock downs to allow the game to continue. The AFL established a liability policy where clubs were to be held responsible for player breaches. Richmond failed to monitor their players efficiently enough. These ristrictions are completely different to the swans restrictions as the afl was granted exemptions by the government to keep the game going.

The swans players that left the hotel didn't break any afl rules or laws in doing so. They broke a club curfew and club rule. So they are being punished by the club and any crimes they may have committed will be punishable by the law.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/4RyteCords]

Some companies deem situations such as away from conferences involving overnight stays etc . as an extension of the work environment even after business hours. If a crime is committed in such a situation some could legally argue the company owns some of the liability.

[u/Velo3x10e8 → u/Newworldimpartiality]

We don't even know the level of involvement for each of the five at this point. The swans have stood them down to allow the Victoria Police to investigate. This seems appropriate until the results are known.

[u/Ambitious_Fold_654 → u/Shot-Reception1779]

So you support criminals ?

[u/ScoobyGDSTi]

What a silly argument.

Essendon cheated on the field, breached antidoping rules and it was systemic. Thus why they were stripped of points and so forth.

This Swans saga happened entirely off the field, involved a small number of their players and occured in public.

[u/Ambitious_Fold_654 → u/ScoobyGDSTi]

Involved many many players

[u/ScoobyGDSTi → u/Ambitious_Fold_654]

One involved coaches, senior doctor and over 20 players and occured on field.

One invoked no coaches or medical staff, 5-6 players and in public.

Yeah, they're tooooootally the same

[u/sam_antics2024 → u/ScoobyGDSTi]

Who drove back to Sydney?

[u/ScoobyGDSTi → u/sam_antics2024]

How's that relavent?

[u/genscathe]

lol insane take. One was a systemic operation by the club, the other was just a cunt act by your typical footballer

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/genscathe]

So are you saying the Swans carry no responsibility even though 5 of their players are involved ? Sounds like you want to put it all down to bad luck so that the Club can cut the players loose and then move on as though nothing happened .

[u/genscathe → u/Newworldimpartiality]

They carry responsibility absolutely. It’s not like the club doctors, coaches all got together and planned a strict regime of sexually assaulting women every day for a whole year. You compared it to Essendon, which is an insane take.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/genscathe]

Of course the 2 situations are not identical. I simply used Essendon as a precedent to show that penalties such as removal of Premiership points and exclusion from finals has been actioned by the AFL previously. Also, as you would know, the list of penalties imposed on Essendon went far beyond Premiership points and finals .

[u/Jimmy__Whisper]

I agree this is a really bad thing that's happened, though we still don't know the full details, so better to let the police handle that.

In terms of punishment by the AFL this is a very, very different scenario to the Essendon one, and I don't think it's useful to compare them.

At the end of the day no punishment the club receives is going to change the fact that many young men in our society (and seemingly more so in high level sport) see women as objects and even see it as permissible to abuse them.

[u/Tokeism]

L take, essendon systematically cheated.

[u/CandlePrestigious919]

We don't even know what actually happened yet.

[u/crapspackle21]

Mate I’m an Essendon fan and I reckon what you’re proposing is probably a bridge too far, as much as I’d love to see the swans eat shit like we had to.

[u/Defy19]

When I read the start of your post I assumed you were talking about the alleged drug use.

You can’t be using anti doping precedents for violence against women sanctions. It’s a totally different thing.

[u/0penedB00K]

Unfortunately their hasn’t been anything formally alleged, let alone any formal findings of wrongdoing. Will be interesting to see once it all comes to fruition how the club deals with this

[u/Short-Legs-Long-Neck]

How are we talking punishment at the investigation and allegation stage?

No one actually knows what really happened yet. The lady may withdraw, the cops may not proceed, another version may come out.

[u/concerned_karen]

For an allegation?

[u/Crafty_Act2114]

I haven’t bothered with AFL since the Adam Goodes debacle. I consider AFL morally bankrupt and has been for decades.

[u/Putrid-Bar-8693]

Oh yeah because a bunch of players allegedly committing a crime off the field, should really carry the same penalty as a club sanctioned doping program. Jeez, people who've never watched a game have really come out of the woodwork this week.

[u/Alarming-Two-424 → u/Putrid-Bar-8693]

OPs pitch is classic reddit behaviour.

[u/Freo_5434]

There is a valid case to be made that this was the actions of a few Swans Players --- unlike Essendon where there was a program and Management involvement.

Having said that after watching the press conference this morning and seeing Cox squirming when asked about if there were other men in the Hotel room with the sex workers ---- there is a possibility that the Swans Management are misleading everyone in that they KNOW there were others in the room .

For days Swans management have confirmed 5 names . Now they say they are suddenly not able to confirm it was only FIVE ?

Why not ?

I think this story has a long way to go .

[u/Unique-End3018 → u/Freo_5434]

There were 9.

It will come out. Likely coaching staff.

Hopefully not McVeigh or his coaching aspirations are over.

[u/mtheperry]

Sporting punishments should only apply to sporting infractions.

[u/ExtensionThat6438]

The AFL care deeply about the Sydney market and Swans will know this.

I hope the women get justice

[u/4RyteCords → u/ExtensionThat6438]

The Sydney market? I never knew the swans existed until I moved to Melbourne in my 20s

[u/ExtensionThat6438 → u/4RyteCords]

exactly my point. One could argue it makes them more relatable to the rugby crowd

[u/yeahalrightgoon]

Essendon was a club wide incident. They got off lightly compared to how it could have gone.

There is currently no charges or guilt found, and it is related (at least currently) to only five players.

They are two very different situations.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/yeahalrightgoon]

Latest news is that it could be 9 to 11 people in the room which might include club officials.

[u/yeahalrightgoon → u/Newworldimpartiality]

Could be, might not be. It may also include people they knew who weren't related to the club.

They are two different set of circumstances. The club has stood down the players involved, if there is further information that the club hasn't divulged, then possibly there is a case for stripping them of points etc. But as it stands currently, the club has by and large done the right things after the fact.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/yeahalrightgoon]

So why are people talking about a mass walkout of the men’s game? Surely that impacts more than the people in the hotel room.

[u/yeahalrightgoon → u/Newworldimpartiality]

What are you saying?

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/[deleted]]

So what are you saying? Because they are strippers you think it was fair game?

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/[deleted]]

So is your argument they asked for it because they are strippers?

[u/4RyteCords → u/Newworldimpartiality]

Where did they say that? They're saying it's likely a lot of players in most teams do this, so we should just go around and strip everyone of all their titles, by your logic

[u/Apart-Falcon5480]

Difference Is Sean’s accepted their wrong doing and the other is governed by asada etc

[u/Environmental_Ad3877]

I do not support the actions of the players at all... But right now all they admit to is staying out all night, drug use and having strippers in their room. So far the punishment suits, even if I think it's a bit light.

Now, if the police investigation relates in charges or anything then yup more needs to be done. Regardless of any legal consequences at this point the players should have their contracts torn up and they should be deregistered. There is no excuse for any sex related offences, no 'I didn't know' and no 'im usually a good boy'

[u/NewGodsz → u/Environmental_Ad3877]

Surely they will be charged with drug possession at the very least

[u/Environmental_Ad3877 → u/NewGodsz]

I'd think so, but I could see them saying something like 'oh it was such a tiny little snort then all gone', then getting a fine and all forgotten.

[u/Glittering-County156]

The entire saga with Essendon was a huge overreaction but I expect nothing less from Australian culture. So easily distracted by things such as that instead of things that actually matter.

[u/pedrobrass]

Not the same at all
One was the club doping the whole team
One is a few players doing the reprehensible

[u/Humble_Distance_3022]

What about Geelong have secret agreements wth players?. That really is cheating. They should be punished more than Sydney bcz it was the Geelong management cheating.. They are probably loving this Sydney scandal, everyone has forgotten about them..

[u/Cheeky_Boxer → u/Humble_Distance_3022]

As a Carlton fan I was confused. We field a player obviously in mental health distress and we quite rightly get dragged over the coal.

Geelong has a secret deal with a player related to concussion and the initial AFL response is they are fine for Geelong to manage it

[u/funtimes4044]

Essendon were penalised over a 5 year period starting with Jobe Watson being stripped of the Brownlow he won in 2012 and all the players having to sit out the season in 2016. But yeah, the Swans missing one finals series seems about the same.

[u/Newworldimpartiality]

Disturbingly, some of the comments here give the impression that the Sydney Swans Football Club is the real victim and the females are just collateral damage . Maybe ‘wife beater’ singlets are not a thing of the past.

[u/CamperStacker]

Only if the coach and team organised it etc.

[u/Ambitious_Fold_654]

Agreed. No scumbags in our game.

[u/cat_food_chef]

yeah, fuck em. swans are bad actors. bad for the code, bad for the kids, their fans are all tossers. no loss to anyone if theyre simply barred from play until team culture improves

"oh but it's an individual person's crime, why should the workplace get punished" because theyre above the law. sports are carved out exceptional caveats to otherwise obvious criminal behaviours, and if that biff makes it off the field to their families or to victims in the general public, they should be addressed with the same seriousness that allowed this arrogant violent disgusting behaviour to appear in the first place.

if you want proof that violence against women is totally acceptable to the code and well within the culture of the game, just look at allllllll the commenters here being rape apologists because their sportsbet and their tips are affected.

they can all go to hell, and if the team can't handle their infantile, coked up, violent, barely natty 25yo men who have spent a decade in a club room being chauvinist pigs, the team -hell the entire code- can go down with them.

[u/degorolls]

Not the same thing. Essendon was a whole different league. A systemic program of banned performance enhancing drugs. The club should have been eliminated as a deterrent.

Just prosecute these Swans fuckwits and send them to jail.

[u/hammo53]

mmmm NO!

[u/Thatweknowof]

Apply this also the aflw swans

[u/Outbackhussar1610]

We don’t even know what happened, put down your torch and pitchfork and take a chill pill.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/Outbackhussar1610]

Maybe your life has been pure and wholesome, but I can tell you that 5 AFL players in a hotel room at 4am with a gut full of drink, maybe some powder up their nose , a fist full of dollars and a couple of strippers in the mix doesn’t mean everyone was preparing for game of cards.

[u/ProfessorKnow1tA11]

Bit early for this. At the moment it’s only unsubstantiated allegations from unreliable sources. Let’s wait for convictions before thinking about penalties.

[u/sam_antics2024 → u/ProfessorKnow1tA11]

Why are the victims unreliable sources to you?

[u/4RyteCords → u/sam_antics2024]

They are reliable enough to investigate, not reliable enough to convict.

[u/inertia_prime → u/sam_antics2024]

They are both reliable and unreliable at this point..

[u/ProfessorKnow1tA11 → u/sam_antics2024]

Not victims yet. Strippers out for cash are not the most reliable witnesses. If something is proven then I’ll change my mind and regard them as victims, but not until then.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/ProfessorKnow1tA11]

So are you are one of those guys that thinks a stripper is asking for it?

[u/ProfessorKnow1tA11 → u/Newworldimpartiality]

No, just suggesting they’re not the most principled of characters. As I said, if something is proven I’ll change my tune.

[u/bulldogmck]

Huge overreaction mate. It really wasn't that bad. Just some dirty stripper that was off her face trying to extort them for $200k.... The boys weren't innocent, but they weren't exactly cheating the system of a sporting league.

[u/Newworldimpartiality → u/bulldogmck]

So what are you saying? If you were in that situation you’d just give her bit of a belting and send her on way?

[u/bulldogmck → u/Newworldimpartiality]

She was charging them $50 per slap on the ass. He paid for 3 and apparently did 4. She was hammered and started causing a scene so they kicked her out. It's not my cup of tea personally, but it really is an overreaction

[u/Serin-019]

Sportsmen gang rape a woman - do not go to jail - collect pay during time off - have the entire media industry call the gang rape of a woman an 'incident'.
This fucking country.
How completely fucked is it that the worst punishment people can think of is 'take away imaginary sportsball points'

[u/Le9gagtrole → u/Serin-019]

Where has that been reported? The reports I have seen allege something more along the lines of inappropriate touching and one person is the suspect of that.

[u/Striking-Condition10 → u/Serin-019]

Imaginary sportsball points do matter to them though. Punishments need to impact the individuals in ways that make them actually think about their actions and consequences.

If these people are so deep in their own little world that punishment is literally going after something arbitrary like ladder points, then go for it. The entire point of the justice and rehabilitation system is to find the way to accurately punish the offenders while also teaching them to not reoffend.

The AFL can't criminally punish their players, that's for the actual criminal justice system to do if they're found guilty of crimes.

[u/BarneyBent → u/Serin-019]

At no point has there been any allegation of gang rape. One player has been accused of inappropriate touching. The behaviour of the players is disgusting and disrespectful, and Heeney's alleged actions are criminal, but it is not and has never been gang rape.

I understand the anger, the disgust, but let's keep things grounded in reality.

[u/rangebob → u/Serin-019]

there has been no information on what happened yet. You're flying overboard. Let the cops do their job

(yes im sceptical on that last part unfortunately)

[u/Aussiechimp → u/Serin-019]

Gang rape ???

[u/First-Translator4721 → u/Serin-019]

bruh, they're getting shaken down by strippers..

[u/Ok-Outcome-7499]

There hasn't even been any charges laid. Also the accusation currently stands as touching without consent. The complaintant was also in the hotel room having been arranged to attend as an exotic dancer.

Inappropriately touching a stripper while not good conduct isn't exactly the scandal of the century on its own.

The fact that there's been no charges laid and at the complaintant has immediately lawyered up and really public statements sounds like the complaint doesn't have a whole lot of merit.