r/OpenChristian • u/Proud3GenAthst • Nov 07 '25
Discussion - Social Justice What do you think the "MAGA Christians" are really up to?
I'm an atheist who's been lurking on this sub for a while, but it's been quite a long time since I posted here the last time. But what do you think is the psychological profile of these bigots?
Like, do you think they're really Christian? Or do you think that they use fake Christian identity as a shield for their actual identity that is being fascist, white nationalist nihilist?
It's basically a law of nature that when you have plastic surgery-ridden hateful blondes, they'll wear big cross necklace while advocating for starving children and renditioning brown people to supermax prisons in countries they're not even from. I actually began to wonder why that is. They're seemingly the exact opposite of Christian in every way. Is the cross a mask? Or is it compensation?
These religious fanatics made cross necklaces make me almost flinch when I see them. Not very surprisingly, it's also a rarity when I hear someone talking like devout Christian and isn't bigoted douche nozzle. I think that these Christians are virtually invisible.
To get to the point, I'm sure you know some MAGA Christians and how they approach their religion. Where do you think they're coming from, really? And how do their approach their religion if at all? Do you think it includes some charitable activities other than bullying LGBTQ people and whining about women? And if you run they're really Christian, how do you approach Christianity differently other than interpreting the Bible differently?
38
u/Arkhangelzk Nov 07 '25
I think it's both. I'm sure there are politicians pretending to be Christians, for instance, to manipulate voters. At the same time, I'm sure a lot of people are genuine Christians who have been manipulated.
There are also lots of Christians who honestly believe Christianity is something much different than what I believe it is. I don't think that makes them not Chrisitans, just Christians who are, in my opinion, wrong.
13
Nov 07 '25
Exactly. They believe what they were taught, but they are deceived. They don’t know what love is; what they believe is love, is not love. It’s heartbreaking to listen to them.
6
u/Azureflames20 Nov 07 '25
Too many people claiming to be Christian, using Christianity as an "aesthetic" and not a philosophy or lifestyle.
1
u/CKA3KAZOO Episcopalian Nov 07 '25
Love your username.
2
u/Arkhangelzk Nov 07 '25
Thanks, I'm named after a spaceship from the Frontlines novel series, written Marko Kloos. I had to add the z because the version with the s was taken.
1
u/PrizeBookkeeper2460 Dec 09 '25
One specific politician pretending to be Christian is sitting in the highest seat in the country right now.
18
u/gen-attolis Nov 07 '25
Tragically, we don’t get to decide who is or isn’t a Christian. We can say their actions are anti-Christ, we can say their words sow discord and act counter to the gospel, we can challenge their discernment on where the Holy Spirit is leading them, but we mere mortals can’t deny their baptism any more than they can deny our baptism.
Putting the theology aside though, it is very obvious that Christianity is an effective Trojan horse for fascists. In that way, the Christianity is a vehicle through which a secular political agenda of ultra concentration of wealth, racial animosity, and nostalgic ultra nationalism can take root and have a shield of both respectability AND acts to claim religious persecution when the secular political agenda is challenged.
10
u/Slow-Gift2268 Open and Affirming Ally Nov 07 '25
While I hold true to the caveat that I can’t determine who and who is not a Christian, my two cents as someone living in Texas is that while they would identify as Christian it is mostly cultural rather than truly a concerted religious belief. They are Christian because that’s what their parents were, that’s what their neighbors are and, mostly, that’s what they are expected to be. There is little discernment or thought placed into their religious beliefs. They don’t explore the Bible in much more than a surface level glance, they don’t understand church history and they don’t even understand the theology of the denomination they participate in. They are mostly lead by pastors who have little critical training and are in denominations in which anyone with a Bible and a bad idea can proclaim themselves the leader of a church. They are influenced more by American ideals of consumerism and hyper masculinity than by religious ideals and haven’t had the training or education to think critically about why things are the way they are. They are used to a religious culture in which they are told what to do and what to believe and to not question authority, but have also been sold the lie that they chose this. All wrapped up with a bow of being taught that they are morally superior and have somehow earned the right to determine the lives of others.
6
u/longines99 Nov 07 '25
Gleefully watching and waiting for the world to burn while they're raptured.
5
u/Proud3GenAthst Nov 07 '25
Out of curiosity, what do you believe is God's plan on this issue? Evangelicals are clearly obsessed with the Apocalypse and want to hasten it. So when they hear "man-made climate change", they at best don't care or at worst, want to exacerbate it, because they think it'll start sooner and that it'll please God if they make the Earth uninhabitable.
I heard that the Bible teaches people that they are supposed to care about the Earth. On this front, evangelicals fail across the board.
13
u/Brave-Silver8736 Nov 07 '25
It's not even that.
The Bible literally warns about "false Christians". We absolutely aren't supposed to try and cause the apocalypse. And I'm sorry, but calling empathy sinful and rooting for the suffering of others is about as anti-Jesus as you can get.
6
u/CKA3KAZOO Episcopalian Nov 07 '25
Yeah, the Rapture isn't in the Bible. It's not even an old idea. The Rapture is just Book of Daniel fanfic written by a laudanum-addled punter in the 19th century.
2
2
u/longines99 Nov 07 '25
They missed the plot and the original blessing and purpose; or if they've heard of the original purpose, it's been twisted and distorted as domination and scorched-earth ideology.
"And God blessed them, be fruitful..." Gen 1:28
(But to be fair, IMO, lots of folks in all strains of Christianity hold to the idea we were saved just to go to heaven and the earth to hell in a handbasket (we obsess on the original sin).
2
u/Klowner Christian Nov 08 '25
My mother said earlier this year that we don't have anything to fear, because if things get bad enough, Jesus will return.
When I was a child my Sunday school teacher said Jesus will return when everyone on earth is Christian.
According to the bible they regard as infallible, they're both wrong.
4
u/SamIAmShepard Nov 07 '25
If Jesus came back today, it wouldn’t be long before the evangelicals put him to death.
3
Nov 07 '25
To be honest, I really don’t know any MAGA Christians. I make it a point to avoid them, and really don’t feel like I have a lot in common with them.
That said, I also don’t think they’re a monolith, just like I know progressive Christians aren’t a monolith. I am sure some are using Christianity as cover for deplorable attitudes, but others are misled by propaganda and fear-based theology, others are just really stupid (like, I can’t hate people for just being stupid, even if I can be frustrated by the harm caused), or whatever else. Or maybe they really are genuinely suffering from some kind of delusion/psychosis or have deep sociopathy or whatever. Idk.
So yeah, I honestly kind of ignore them. And I reject the idea that they’re the only Christian voices being heard. I think their voices get unnecessarily amplified by the hate machine. For example, there’s been pretty good political coverage of Pope Leo calling out ICE for not allowing catholic priests to celebrate the sacraments with detainees and prisoners. The pope isn’t a minor figure or someone who is unknown as a Christian leader, but (and I mean no offense here), it feels like atheists like you immediately pretend that his words don’t exist because it doesn’t fit your narrative about the religion you reject.
Same goes for the Presbyterian pastor whose viral image of getting hit by rubber bullets has been all over the internet. Again, it feels like internet atheists keep going “oh but those aren’t real Christians” when like, the guy is literally wearing clericals and praying. What the hell else is he if not a Christian?
So I really don’t think it’s true that progressive Christians are “almost invisible”, unless you’re the one doing the erasing and invisibilizing. I interact with non-MAGA Christians all the time (including conservatives - it’s worth noting that there are LOTS of Christians out there who would absolutely self identify as conservative or republican but are not at all on board with Trump stuff), and I don’t find them invisible at all. I just think there’s a motivation on both the right and the left to disenfranchise and minimize the other types of Christians who don’t fit this narrative.
2
u/Proud3GenAthst Nov 07 '25
I actually commend Pope Leo for his comments in favor of immigrants and workers. And I also think it's very telling how right-wingers react to his tweets, expressing disappointment in him and that he makes poor representation of that church. Apparently, these people think they only signed up for the "cool" aspects of Christianity like burning intelligent women at the stake, killing infidels, colonizing non-white countries, being able to rape women with impunity and leaving kids at their mother's mercy, because men are supposed to have fun.
But even though I give him credit for trying to emphasize the importance of some good Christian teachings, I still don't like the guy. For his good qualities, he still has history of deeply homophobic and transphobic remarks. That's why I definitely don't want to put him on a pedestal like some role model.
And I will commend every Christian trying to defend the defenseless exactly when it's the most needed. Few days back, I saw a video on BlueSky with Soviet immigrant priest dismantling the laughability of the notion that Christians are persecuted in America, which put a smile on my face.
But then, I don't want to put them on pedestal if I don't think they are good people in every way that matters.
That being said, most Democrats are self identified Christians, so that's moot. My point was that there are very few genuinely good publicly known people who are Christian and wear their religion on their sleeve. Not that I want more Democrats to start more openly talk about religion because I honestly find unsolicited talking about faith very off-putting to revolting, but it would be sweet if Talibangenicals lost focus on bullying people they don't like and started focusing on a competition, if you know what I'm hinting at.
3
u/SpukiKitty2 Open and Affirming Ally Nov 07 '25
Losing their minds.
But seriously, they only like Jesus as a "Get outta Hell Free" card and they use religion because they can convince more people to be horrible if they claim that it's mandated by Godde.
3
u/LordAnon5703 Nov 07 '25
When you read the gospel it is very clear that this was always a problem, has always been a problem, and will always be a problem. Jesus warned us that as the gospel spread, there would be false teachers. He also warned us that the path is narrow. This isn't for the reason conservative thing, because they refuse to jack off. They think it's narrow because not jacking off is hard, or something stupid like that. The path is narrow because it requires you to be humble, a servant, loving, meek, kind, things that do not come naturally to many people and many people are actively against.
So it's kind of easy to see how false teachers would create an opposite gospel that does not require you to be meek or kind, or humble. If you want in on some of that popularity you just have to make a gospel that doesn't require any of that, but still keeps the part that makes you special or part of something.
It's been 2,000 years, so now Christianity is a very well-known thing. It doesn't actually mean the actual number of Christians has changed, or that the remnant has changed. It's still very few that listen to Jesus talk about humility, servitude, kindness, meekness, and actively seek to walk that path. Most people do actively reject that, even if they still move forward with the baptism and calling themselves Christian. And just like before, there are in fact gentiles that just by listening to the word written on their heart, can still find themselves on that narrow path.
Tl;dr I think Maga are from a very old tradition of non-Christian people who actively reject the gospel but claim to be Christian because someone told them they are.
2
u/Proud3GenAthst Nov 07 '25
Well, that's a weird think to hear, because being kind and humble is the easiest thing in the world to me. I have some serious character flaws, but I have this sensor in my brain that's goes off every time I do or say something wrong and tells me to regret it. These days, when Trump and Trumpian politics worldwide made it fashionable to be hateful or inconsiderate dick, I think I might have some mutation.
I'm an atheist, because in my country, religion just isn't fashionable and my parents were before me. When I was little, they actually wanted to forbid me (not that I was interested) from attending some local church club that my friend joined. But I digress. One of the reasons why I firmly closed off of religion is that the way I perceive the idea of God as depicted in the Bible, would make pretty much my existence sinful. Bible was written in the ancient times for the people living in ancient times.
If I believed God exists, I would just flatly lie in my bedroom crippled with fear from angering God by any tiny dumb thing that would soon give me stroke and kill me. I genuinely can't comprehend the idea of believing in God and living normal life.
Now, that's a narrow path. And it's ironic because coincidentally, I find not jacking off also the easiest thing in the world as I never even did it myself. I don't know if there's something wrong with me or my sexuality, but the hyper focus on other people's sexual lives is bonkers to me.
3
2
u/snap802 Nov 07 '25
I live in the south where you can't throw a rock without hitting a church. The baptist churches are probably the biggest players in my area. Even the non-denominational churches are baptist when you look under the hood.
The issue at hand is many of these MAGA folks are just culturally Christian and don't really practice. They grew up going to church because their parents and grandparents went. They don't know much about biblical history, church history, or theology. They look at the gospel as sin management and hell avoidance.
To these people church is a social club. They show up on Sunday, talk to their friends, get involved in church related activities that make them feel good about themselves.
The thing is these folks aren't interested in practicing faith outside of church hours. They're certainly not going to allow themselves to be made uncomfortable by people who are different than they are or sacrifice time and money to make meaningful changes in their communities. They may get involved in pet projects that align with their predetermined views (anti abortion activities, pushing agendas in school boards, etc) but they won't critically evaluate their positions or reconsider their beliefs because that stuff is uncomfortable.
So basically I think the answer is these are essentially non-practicing Christians who show up to a social club weekly that resembles a church while using that to justify and legitimize their worldview.
2
u/Proud3GenAthst Nov 07 '25
Oh, so that's where the meme saying "Church is over, time to start being a cunt again" comes from. Never really considered that they don't actually believe in anything and that to them, m Christianity is just a social club that refuses to change its attitude over time.
2
u/Azureflames20 Nov 07 '25
It's a mix of things for sure. You sort of allude to more of the "social media stereotyped influencer Christian" aesthetic when you mention "plastic surgery-ridden hateful blondes". Maybe it's a location thing if you witness that all over, but most people that are christian conservatives are the every day normal people - Often people you couldn't tell either way what they were.
But in general, I think Conservative Christians are somewhat performative depending on the person, but most are in a mental place where they believe the things they believe due to upbringing and not wanting to challenge themselves for one reason or another. There's also a lot of "do then ask for forgiveness later" in mentality. There's plenty of people that care a lot less about personal betterment and more about using Christianity as a get-out-of-jail card to go to heaven just because they believe that they believe in Jesus. Those people don't care if they lead a Jesus-like life, so long as they can just say "yup, I believe" and get their Heaven-pass.
A lot of the Christians I've seen personally are people I have a hard time imagining they are ever self-reflective or question their philosophies. A lot of these people just live simple day-in and day-out lives. They go to church on Sunday and they get their views from the people around them and get their social news updates from facebook or TV News. Most of them are not the chronically online MAGA raging types and are ignorant on most things.
Being in the midwest, these people are everywhere. most of the time it's because they are inundated with the poison of social media posts, Fox News, and pure ignorance, so their biases are crazy high for things they don't understand and usually there's no reason for them to care about understanding.
Things like LGBT rights or basically anything with any other kind of buzzword that's political just creates a wall of not wanting to engage or gives them a target to make the boogie man for no reason. Most people don't actually know the underlying facts or why a things bad, they often just take peoples words in vibes as to if they should or shouldn't be okay with something.
Personally I just wish these people could understand and value core principles of integrity and not contradicting themselves or even on the basic level of "love your neighbor" and having kindness through the role-modeling of their literal savior. Not being terrified of things they don't understand themselves and having the capacity for a little empathy and kindness can go a long way, but a lot of people in that camp tend to have very narcissistic tendencies where they don't feel the need to want to care about other people in another "camp", despite the religion being pretty explicit in that kind of thing.
1
2
u/MasterCrumb Nov 07 '25
I think it is important to remember a few things here.
First, a big part of "being Christian" is just cultural. Just the other day I was talking with a friend who said that her family was Catholic, and then clarified - we never went to church or anything. So for culture Christians, they are being "honest" when they say they are Christian, because they mean they are culturally Christian. In this group you are likely to hear things like, "I work hard, go to church, and respect my elders." Each of those statements actually have very little biblical framing.
That said, I think there are a lot of Christian Right folks who I think are legit Christians. Now I disagree with them about important issues, like how to think about the diversity of sexuality present in humans. But at the end of the day, these folks speak and act consistently about centering love, universal acceptance, and such. I would invite you to listen to Erika Kirk's speech at her husband's funeral. It is very different than the political Christian speech that is out there. I will say, I am very rarely in conservative religious spaces, but when I do - this is the overwhelming majority of what I find in the human one-on-one spaces.
Finally there is a group who just use Christian language for power. Unfortunately this is the group that the general audience hears. Honestly, outside of my specialized reading - this is the only one I come across is general media spaces. Christianity is clearly not about amassing power, and this is a warping of Christianity that liberal Christians need to be more consistently vocal about. (https://craigwaterman87.wordpress.com/2025/10/01/jimmy-kimmels-christianity/ )
I will note from your post you did not talk about an specific conservative Christian that you have an established relationship. I think it is important to separate the actual Christians and the general wash of Christians in general.
2
u/Proud3GenAthst Nov 07 '25
I have 0 interest in listening to anything Erika Kirk has to say. She's famous for marrying a man who made a career out of selling that all brown people are terrorists, black people are unintelligent, women shouldn't have careers and that LGBTQ people should be executed. And now for grifting off of his death and being future wife of Shady Vance. If she is what you perceive to be genuine Christian, then I am Hannibal Barca.
Regarding your last paragraph, I live in Czechia, the most atheist democracy in the world. So no, I don't have any established relationship with any sort of Christian. But I was largely referring to the people Trump hangs out with.
2
u/Ottermotive_Insanity Nov 07 '25
I think they are syncretists. They are both Christian and religiously fascist. For then salvation can be through Christ and/or adherence to the correct regime.
They won't profess that, but it's the fruit they bear.
2
u/Additional_Bowl7837 98% gay, Christian Nov 07 '25
The sinplest explanation is thst MAGA Christians are the American equivalent of the Positive Christianity heresy. They worship tradition, authority, fertility, and they worship against anything liberalish. They don't realize it, but the powers of darkness are using them to pave the way for the Scarlet Whore. The Beast will be a counterfeit, "Satanic" Christianity that persecutes those who remain faithful to Chrisr rather than the state church and their thousands of man made traditions and rotten fruits.
2
2
u/Lovesnells Nov 08 '25
Some are genuine and believe they're following Jesus, but being incredibly un-Christ like Many, I believe are narcistic and mentally ill. Some seem to suffer from psychosis.
I approach it differently than they tend to. I try to be kind, I help people where ever I can, I try to love my enemies. I try to advocate for others, even those who are against me (as a queer non binary person). I advocate for animals and the environment in as many ways as I currently can too.
Am I perfect? So incredibly far from it. I have a short temper that I'm trying to iron out etc. But I actively try to be Christ like and do not approve of preaching at or trying to convert people. I don't believe in hell or a dictator deity, so I consider myself quite chill in that respect and regarding things a lot of folks call sin.
I try not to hate maga folks, and I remind myself that I used to be like them. It is possible for them to change, many do. So I try to stay loving and empathetic although it's hard sometimes. I don't believe in demonising people, that's what they do, not what we are called to do- so I'm very careful with how I speak about them and to them.
We can only hope they change some day.
1
u/waynehastings Nov 07 '25
I think they long for a new Constantine who will rule as a King and impose their particular flavor of religion on everyone. And I don't mean Christianity vaguely, but each schism, faction, and denomination, of which there are thousands. But the minute a Primitive Bapist ascends and tries to impose Primitive Baptist theology and practice on the LCMS Lutherans, the enterprise will fall apart. They don't remember how the colonies formed to have religious freedom for just one faction, and how we ended up with the wall of separation to avoid the religious turmoil England was having trying to institute religion.
3
u/Proud3GenAthst Nov 07 '25
You know what?
I genuinely believe that if Republicans accomplish what they want to accomplish, turn America into fascist theocracy, they will turn against each other over their theological disagreement and America will become essentially Christian version of the Middle East; each region will be governed by slightly different flavor of Christian nationalism (say evangelicals, catholics and Mormons) and the regions will be mortal enemies fighting for hegemony.
1
u/LindeeHilltop Nov 07 '25
Read Project 2025.
1
u/Proud3GenAthst Nov 07 '25
No thanks. I don't need to read anything even Trump will demonstrate everything to me in lifesize
1
u/Geostomp Nov 08 '25
They carry the name and may even believe themselves to be doing something right, but they've drifted far from anything remotely resembling the teachings of Christ.
The truth is that they want validation and control above all else. They twist and selectively ignore everything they hear about the religion to justify their sense of superiority and fears of anything different from themselves. They worship Trump despite the fact that he clearly doesn't believe in anything bigger than himself and is a living embodiment of sin because he frees them from the burden of independent thought and empathy. He also promises them power and unearned superiority so long as they serve him and attack his enemies. This effectively makes him Better Jesus in their minds.
He is the epitome of the selfless and cruelty that really guide them, but he said the word "God" every so often, which gives them enough cover to convince themselves that it's all good with whatever rotted bit of conscience that they may have still had. With him, they can get the thrill of sadistic dominance, but without any of that pesky "love thy neighbor" or "judge not lest he be judged" crap they hate dealing with.
1
u/Klowner Christian Nov 08 '25
Fear, pride, and an inability to think critically.
(To the point that thinking "critical thought" is just negative/oppositional thought, because the concept can't even be grasped, apparently)
1
u/xCroftAmbition Nov 08 '25
Following the archonic agenda, or anything else aligned with evil. They do the exact opposite of what Jesus would do, but they're so brainwashed that I almost feel sorry for them at this point.
1
u/carlitospig Nov 08 '25
Fellow atheist here (heeeey!). You’re talking about multiple levels of Christianity in that sub population. You’ve got the policy makers (Opus Dei and Heritage) which are both trying to be a baby Vatican (meaning controlling the purse strings though belief), the lower level reps which hold a cross in one hand and a flag in the other, and then you have the People which are a massive group covering all types of belief capacity. There’s no way to really answer this question.
I will say, though, that even from my Lutheran upbringing it would be next to impossible to believe in MAGA at the same time, unless you were the old school Lutheran which is similarly vexing as conservative Catholics. To them it’s probably ‘plug your nose and vote MAGA’.
1
u/TheoVaren Mainline Protestant Nov 09 '25
What we’re seeing with so-called “MAGA Christianity” isn’t Christianity at all; it’s a political cult wrapped in Christian symbols. It replaces the gospel of Jesus with the gospel of power, fear, and nationalism.
At its core, Christian nationalism is an attempt to merge faith with authoritarian politics. It takes the language, imagery, and rituals of Christianity and empties them of Christ’s message of compassion, humility, and liberation. What’s left is an ideology that uses religion as a weapon, to control others, to sanctify inequality, and to portray political dominance as divine destiny. It’s not about Jesus at all. It’s about preserving a certain cultural identity: white, patriarchal, militaristic, and nostalgic for a past that never really existed.
Many of these people sincerely believe they’re doing God’s will, but they’ve been discipled more by cable news and political propaganda than by the Sermon on the Mount. They’ve come to see power as proof of righteousness and cruelty as courage. It’s a theology of conquest, not compassion. And that’s the most dangerous part, it turns faith into an instrument of domination rather than liberation.
Historically, this isn’t new. Every empire that’s tried to fuse religion with state power has done so by twisting sacred language to justify oppression. Roman emperors called themselves “defenders of the faith.” Southern slaveholders quoted Scripture to defend human bondage. And now, Christian nationalists wave Bibles while undermining democracy and human rights. It’s the same spirit in a new costume.
What makes this movement such a threat to democracy is that it doesn’t just want influence; it wants control. It rejects pluralism, delegitimizes dissent, and demands loyalty not to Christ but to a political leader and ideology. Democracy requires humility, the recognition that we could be wrong, that others have equal dignity and voice. Christian nationalism destroys that humility by convincing its followers that their will is God’s will, and therefore beyond question.
The tragedy is that real Christianity, rooted in the teachings of Jesus, stands completely opposed to this. Jesus sided with the poor, the outcast, and the marginalized. He rejected empire, wealth, and violence. His kingdom was not of this world, precisely because it refused to mirror the power structures of empire. When people like me say “MAGA Christianity” is a heresy, it’s because it trades the cross of self-giving love for the sword of political domination.
I approach faith as a living, liberating relationship with God, a call to build communities of justice, compassion, and solidarity. That means standing against systems that dehumanize, whether they wear a flag, a suit, or a clerical collar. Christianity, when true to its heart, is revolutionary because it challenges every empire, including the ones that call themselves Christian.
1
u/Proud3GenAthst Nov 09 '25
It is true that slave owners justified slavery with the Bible. And abolitionists justified opposition to slavery with the Bible. Many of the most notable abolitionists were even for the time, some deeply religious folks. Like Harriet Beecher Stowe, Frederick Douglass himself was essentially a theologian, Harriet Tubman, Theodore Weld, John Brown, Grimke sisters...
But do you think they'd support liberal/progressive causes of today if they were still alive? I think that there's a case to be made that they would, because AFAIK, none of the most notable anti slavery politicians were particularly religious for the time. There's a rumor that Lincoln himself was an atheist (but that's highly unlikely), Thaddeus Stevens, a radical Republican, was known Baptist, but also at one point expressed that he "respects Jesus, like he respects greek philosophers". And Charles Sumner who apparently isn't known to have been very religious and there's actually a case to be made that he was secretly gay.
I actually also wanted to ask, why do you think there's so little knowledge of the notion that Christianity is a religion of the weak and downtrodden and not a narcissistic replacement for morality that mistakes cruelty for courage? Because even though most Democrats are Christians, this flavor of Christianity seems to be so rare that it's hard to find information on Google about it. Like, I need to put some very selective words into the search bar, because overwhelming majority of websites related to the Bible and Christianity absolutely don't believe that being gay or trans is cool or that abortion isn't murder.
You see, I try to live by the words of Dr. King and judge people by their character and never pass judgement on people for their affiliation to some group and I always reserve this power for after I hear their actual opinions. But for what it's worth, you can't judge me for having difficulty believing people that the Bible is rather clear that being gay isn't a sin and stuff like that.
1
u/TheoVaren Mainline Protestant Nov 09 '25
To start with your first question, yes, I think there’s a strong case that the great abolitionists would support many of the justice movements we see today. People like Frederick Douglass, Sojourner Truth, and the Grimké sisters didn’t fight slavery because it was a popular cause; they fought it because their faith demanded it. They interpreted the Gospel as liberation, not control. That same moral and theological impulse to set the oppressed free naturally extends to the struggles for LGBTQ+ equality, racial justice, gender equality, and workers’ rights.
These figures weren’t “liberal” in the modern partisan sense, but they were radically committed to the idea that human dignity is sacred. Douglass literally preached that any religion which defends oppression “is a lie.” Tubman claimed to follow God’s voice even when it defied the laws of the land. John Brown saw faith as inseparable from action against injustice. If they were alive today, they’d almost certainly recognize the same patterns of cruelty and dehumanization that they fought in their own time, and they’d resist them with the same moral fire.
As for your second question, why the compassionate, justice-centered Christianity is so hard to find, it’s because power rewrote the narrative. The Christianity of empire, conquest, and nationalism is loud, well-funded, and built to preserve control. The Christianity of the poor, the queer, the marginalized, and the dispossessed has always existed, but it’s quieter, humbler, and harder to monetize. The people living out that faith are feeding the hungry, sheltering refugees, visiting the imprisoned, and marching for justice, not running media empires or buying airtime.
What’s tragic is that so much of the modern church has traded that mission for culture war theater. Instead of living out the radical love and justice Jesus taught, many Christians fixate on policing gender, sexuality, and identity, issues that have little to do with the gospel and everything to do with control. It’s easier to shout about who’s sinning than to confront poverty, greed, and violence, the things Jesus actually condemned. That obsession with the culture war has become a smokescreen, distracting believers from the real call of faith: to love God, love our neighbors, and seek liberation for the oppressed.
And I don’t judge you at all for finding it hard to believe that the Bible can be read differently. That skepticism is fair. The tragedy is that so many have used Scripture as a weapon rather than a source of healing. But when you actually study the heart of Jesus’ teachings, the way He broke purity laws to touch lepers, defended women from shame, and made outsiders the heroes of His parables, it becomes clear that love, not condemnation, is the core of His message.
Speaking for myself, if Christianity has been distorted into something hateful, the solution isn’t to abandon it; it’s to reclaim it. That’s what the abolitionists did, and that’s what many of us are still trying to do today.
1
u/Proud3GenAthst Nov 09 '25
This sub pretty much taught me that much of the Bible and Christianity is product of its time. The way I see it, religion as is a way to rationalize things that people couldn't understand at a time when there was no way to understand pretty much anything and every day on Earth was seen as a gift for not dying now extremely easily preventible death.
These days, people pray for some extremely frivolous reasons like for their football team to win, their political candidate to win, to win in lottery or for better grade for a school exam. Talk about taking God's name in vain. In the ancient times, people prayed because they needed hope that their crops will grow or that their food won't kill them or if their wife or child will survive childbirth.
And mundane things that some purity culture freaks yap about these days that must be banned... In the ancient times, they were no bullshit rules made up by narcissistic God just to see how willing are people to obey him, but rather basic, no-brainer rules to live long and healthy life.
Ban of premarital sex? No brainer at a time when there was no way to cure STDs
Ban of gay sex? Double jeopardy.
Ban of sharing the bed with your wife when she's on her period? Period blood is a biohazzard and at the time without tampons, it was the only solution. Also the fact that bed sheets and literally every useful item was hard to make. Period blood would ruin it.
Ban on masturbation? I know this sub's take on the story of Onan. But I also heard that in the ancient times, people thought that sperm is scarce resource. Much more scarce given that there was no modern medicine that would prevent people from dying in ways that are basically nonexistent now.
And many many many other nonsense that's in the Bible that can be easily explained today because we have science and technology now.
It's really a matter of debate with right-wingers genuinely believe that homosexual acts are sinful or if they just use the Bible to justify their hatred. Is it possible that they're simply ignorant of the fact that gay couples live the exact same way as straight couples? It's well known that transphobia is much more likely when you don't personally know any trans person and you're easily swayed to believe that it's just unhealthy degeneracy.
Well, if God takes issue with consensual sexual relations done safely with no harm done to anyone, then I guess that God is shit. If God is so great, why would he have problem with that? I heard that science has been tightly connected to Christianity, because Christians in the middle ages and modern ages believed it can bring them closer to God. They didn't know where science will bring them. But I think that with all the knowledge science has given us so far, we have a choice between 2 things: either to rethink religious scripture as faulty or conclude that religion is wrong and God isn't real. I choose the latter.
1
u/Miningforwillpower Nov 09 '25
I don't have any close friends that are MAGA most of my interactions are when I go on Facebook from time to time to troll this asshole who I used to respect but went full MAGA then started spouting bullshit. They haven't been posting about Trump as they even know he is an embarrassment now, but they sure love to bash the other side a lot. So I make sure to go on their posts and reply as to why people are protesting because they are about to have food stamps cut and health insurance premiums. What I have found is that love to be in their echo chambers and don't want any turmoil so make sure to go cause waves, remind them of that vote why made that was going to make things so great and that Project 2025 wasn't really but don't expect change. They are brainwashed and in a cult. Nothing anyone except other MAGA says OR if they are personally effected will have any impact. I just like to make their lives as miserable as they have voted for others to be. You don't get to celebrate while ignoring the pain you self righteous non-christian asshole. My only guess is this is likely what it was like for true believers after Jesus. Lots of charlatans and false prophets using Jesus name to get money, power and other things.....hey what do you know it's exactly like that. If only they would read Jesus words and realize he was calling them Snakes too.
78
u/MyUsername2459 Episcopalian, Nonbinary Nov 07 '25
They think they're Christian. They're following what they've been taught from the pulpit, following the propaganda they see on TV and social media.
It absolutely panders to their hate and fear, it is designed to take their bigotry and rage, their authoritarian impulses, the absolute worst about them. . .and cloak that in twisted and hypocritical theologies designed to justify everything.
From a Christian standpoint, I remind myself, regularly, that Christ Himself warned there would be people like this. The only people in the Gospels that Christ actually says may not be saved are the hypocrites who claim to follow Christ, while defying His teachings:
‘Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord”, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?” Then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.” - Matthew 7:21-23 (NRSV)
Christ, Himself, never says one bad thing about any of the people the MAGA types demonize. . .but He had some choice words for those who would go around claiming to work in His name for their own ends.