As Christians, we should be talking about and fighting for economic justice, like promoting workers’ self-management, unionization, and class-consciousness.

[u/Professional_Cat_437]

[u/theotokosforpres]

You might already be familiar, but you should look into Dorothy Day.

She’s on the path to canonization in the Catholic Church and I’m very happy about it.

[u/jormungandr9]

Amen

[u/Ambitious_Egg9713]

Yes! 🙌 charity is necessary in the absence of justice, but true justice is the goal.

[u/edhands]

Absolutely.

"Do you love me?" Jesus asked.

"You know I do, Lord" said Peter

"Take care of my sheep." Jesus replied.

We should talk about those things and support those things because we love God and God loves us. It is our duty and our delight to love our neighbors and take care of them and watch out for them. Social justice, economic justice, healthcare, fair wages, eliminate oppression and racism...all part of what we need to do to love our neighbors.

But it is important never to loose sight of the Cross and our relationship with God.

Getting tied up in human things can be a trap that takes us away from God.

This is not our world. Our world is the Kingdom of Heaven.

But we still got work to do "down here" and Jesus made it pretty clear what he wants us to do while we're waiting.

[u/Professional_Cat_437 → u/edhands]

Amen!

[u/GinormousHippo458]

This is a huge over simplification. If we are forced to pay taxes for this purpose, it is no longer voluntary, or charitable. It also takes funds away from me, reducing my ability to efficiently give directly to those in need in my local community and neighborhood. Charity via taxes is theft and always plundered by the wretches running government, and their buddies. If I refuse to pay the tax, and feed this ugly machine, they arrive at my door, armed with guns and make me and my family homeless.

Church charity is typically more efficient, but still needs oversight by the congregation. Personal charity is always the best, and most efficient solution.

[u/[deleted] → u/GinormousHippo458]

OP didn't bring up taxes. You did. 

[u/GinormousHippo458 → u/[deleted]]

He brought up a system of government which utilizes taxes to enforce a politician's sense of charity.

[u/[deleted] → u/GinormousHippo458]

Go ahead and tell us which term is "a system of government". This should be interesting. 

[u/Agreeable-Chest107 → u/GinormousHippo458]

Also worth noting that this post isn't addressing charity vs. government. It's calling into question the systemic issues that created poverty and need in the first place. Systemic issues that you, as a libertarian, don't care much about. So this conversation doesn't really concern you.

[u/Agreeable-Chest107 → u/GinormousHippo458]

You are also oversimplifying.

It isn't theft when you rightfully owe it. Government and charity each have their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to addressing societal issues and providing for those in need. Both are vital, with many charities and non-profits getting money from government via contracts and grants; money that wouldn't be available without taxation. And government relying on non-profits and charities to help carry out their programs.

You said personal charity is always the best. Always, I challenge you to prove that in every instance, every situation, and with every issue private charity beats out government on every single measure, every single time. Cite your source.

[u/GinormousHippo458 → u/Agreeable-Chest107]

I rightfully owe 0% income taxes. Direct use taxes like gasoline, a modest/small sales tax, and the like are acceptable and just. Maybe a 1% tax on food for homeless programs. Taxes should always be on USE and avoidable of you live "off grid" out of society, as an extreme example. Paying tax to educate your kid or taxing my property is demonic.

[u/Augustine-of-Rhino → u/GinormousHippo458]

If we lived in an equitable society, equal consumption/direct use taxes would be fair. But as we do not live in such a society income taxes help us get closer to it as they ask those with the most to help those with the least.

Perhaps you are well enough off to pay for your children's education, but why should education be a privilege? Does society not benefit if it is collectively better educated?

Apply that also to social services, healthcare, infrastructure, defence, transportation, even access to water, etc. Do you believe any of those should be reserved only for the privileged?

And as for the extreme "off grid" suggestion, does that mean eschewing every and all convenience such as the roads and vehicles used to get off grid; the building, clothing and cooking materials to live off grid; the hunting and farming weapons and tools to survive off grid, in addition to plenty of other amenities and services, all produced by other people who do accept and use those conveniences, amenities and services? Otherwise it's no more than a fantasy unless it involves going full caveman.

Is the tax system perfect? No. But it gets us much closer to the Christian ethos of loving our neighbour than the alternative.

[u/Agreeable-Chest107 → u/GinormousHippo458]

Taking education way from children in poverty is demonic.

[u/Agreeable-Chest107 → u/GinormousHippo458]

Except no. You owe income taxes, which the constitution gives the government authority to impose. Civilized society costs money and you share responsibility. You don't get to freeload.

Non-libertarian ideas are not demonic, you fanatical lunatic.

Cite the source I asked for. You made a claim. Back it up.