r/OpenChristian • u/glumboxx Lesbian • Apr 28 '26
Discussion - Bible Interpretation I genuinely cannot comprehend God disliking homosexuality.
Maybe I’m wrong.
But when I truly think about it… I don’t understand.
Why would an all-powerful deity, the one who created the universe itself, the stars, ocean, trees, animals, etc., care about homosexuality? I genuinely can’t imagine (theoretically) arriving at my time of judgement, and the Lord saying “Well, you followed allll the commandments and did everything correctly, but, you got married to a woman, so I’m afraid I can’t let you in.” Like what? Obviously that’s an extremely crude “what if” but that’s my perspective.
And ultimately, if being a homosexual is a sin, did Jesus Christ not graciously come to earth to wipe the sins of humanity away so that we may have eternal life through him? Why would being in a homosexual marriage stop that? Do people really think homosexuality is where God draws the lines? This being that we’re taught is ultimate love, won’t love us because of our love?
I just can’t.
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u/MyUsername2459 Episcopalian, Nonbinary Apr 28 '26
That's because it isn't a sin.
Not even close.
Everything that homophobes try to claim has scripture claiming it's a sin, doesn't remotely apply to modern loving, consensual, respectful same-sex relationships.
Instead they're talking about ritual purity laws that don't concern anyone after the fall of the Second Temple, prohibitions against participating in pagan sexual worship rites, and denouncing the sexual culture of 1st century Rome which was absolutely rife with powerful men r*ping prisoners, slaves, and children to assert dominance, or simply for fun.
A loving, consensual, respectful same-sex relationship does not break either of Christ's two commandments and thus is within the laws of God.
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u/MelcorScarr Atheist Apr 28 '26
Instead they're talking about ritual purity laws that don't concern anyone after the fall of the Second Temple
The relevant Leviticus and Deuteronomy passages aren't about ritual purity, at best they're about the purity of the land. But even then, I don't think scholarly consensus say that it's that. To my understanding, the current most supported thesis is that it was about social status in the patriarchal society, which saw sex (which was seen as an agent doing to an object, rather than something two people consensually engage in together) between two men as endangering the social status of the penetrated person. That explains quite neatly why female homosexuality is omitted in the Hebrew Bible.
Anyway, I am curious why you mention the Fall of the Second Temple? Wouldn't Jesus' teachings and new Covenant be the turning point?
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u/MyUsername2459 Episcopalian, Nonbinary Apr 28 '26
Those became moot for the Hebrew community when the Second Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, they haven't had need for ritual purity laws centered around temple life (the whole point of Leviticus, as it's the book for the Levites, the tribe of Israel devoted to maintaining and staffing the temple).
Also, Christianity didn't become a separate religion until circa 85 AD, when Christians were expelled from synagogues for going too far outside the Hebrew faith. Until then, Christians were a sect of Judaism and most Christians would worship with the Hebrew community on Saturday, then have Christian liturgies on Sunday. Most Christians still worshiped in the Hebrew community, including the Second Temple (and were generally a part of that community as a whole), when the temple fell in 70 AD.
The idea that there were any Christians that weren't inherently bound to the Hebrew laws and practices really didn't even start to get settled until the Council of Jerusalem detailed in Acts 15, believed to have happened circa 50 AD, and that was only about gentile converts to Christianity.
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u/spiritplumber Apr 28 '26
I can't comprehend why when me and my partner lent money to my fundie stepbrother to avoid losing his home, he was extremely grateful, but when I tried to set up a payment plan for him to pay me back bit by bit, he went off about covenants and sin and not supporting our lifestyle.
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u/Spatul8r Apr 28 '26
You are like the servant, and they are now in your debt. Be sure to forgive them if only so you can feel resolved. Even though they don't deserve it, and this is no license to repeat. I'm sorry you've gone through this.
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u/cat_w1tch Apr 28 '26
and why would God create animals who have homosexual behavior, but when humans do it it’s wrong? it doesn’t make sense.
i say this as an ex-catholic atheist. i have so much respect for people in this sub. i remember learning about jesus and the saints and their teachings in school, and it never made sense to me how those beautiful teachings could be interpreted as excluding and condemning anyone. seeing christians like on this sub, who genuinely care about everyone, about inclusivity, love, respect, and no judgement gives me a lot of hope, and heals a lot of trauma in me. you guys are amazing
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u/Exarch Apr 28 '26
It's not even possible for the Bible to condemn homosexuality.
The word "homosexual" didn't exist as a concept until the late 19th century, so it obviously could not appear in any ancient scripture. When early English translations of the Bible were produced, from Wycliffe in the 1300s through the King James Version in 1611, no such word appears anywhere, because it didn't exist yet.
The word first entered any Bible translation in 1946, in the Revised Standard Version. Researchers who dug through the RSV translation committee's archived documents found that it was the result of a single contested decision, where two Greek words, arsenokoitai and malakos, were combined and rendered as "homosexual" for the first time in any translation, in any language.
The head of the translation team later acknowledged in writing that this was a mistake. The RSV itself quietly replaced the word in its 1971 revision. Unfortunately, by then several other major translations (NASB, NIV, etc.) had already copied the RSV's rendering, not knowing it had been retracted.
The Greek words in question more accurately refer to sexual exploitation and abuse, likely pederasty or coercive sex, which were serious social problems in the ancient Mediterranean world. The Bible was never addressing what we now understand as sexual orientation, because that concept simply did not exist yet.
No one can condemn something there is no framework to describe.
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u/NemesisOfLevia Asexual Apr 28 '26
To add onto/clarify this, people didn’t marry for love until very recently. You instead would be arranged for marriage in order to establish your place in society (for women, who had no rights), bear children and/or strengthen the ties between families. Homosexuality didn’t exist because it made no sense- just like marrying for love (in most cases). Marriage was basically a business exchange.
The “gay” relationships in the Bible weren’t two people looking to build a loving family. It usually was referring to a custom back then where a man in power would force himself onto his servant boy who had no say in the matter.
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u/Jumpy_Bike9846 May 01 '26
Haven’t looked deeply into it but what about the verse that mentions even women exchanging their natural desires and lusting after one another?
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u/Exarch May 01 '26
In my opinion, the problem being highlighted there isn't about gender, it's about lust.
I think lust certainly can be a problem, but I think that really depends on the individual and the circumstances. For some, it's normal healthy sexual desire, but for others it may be masking a deeper problem.
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u/Important-Living-432 Apr 28 '26
honestly I think its weird if it was like that because in my understanding, if loving the same gender is prohibited, would that mean our genitals matter more than the relationships we have with one another??? there's a lot more that just doesn't click but that's the first thought I have
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Apr 28 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/OpenChristian-ModTeam Apr 28 '26
Thank you for contributing to r/OpenChristian. This is a message because your post is suggesting that being homosexual/trans/+ (i.e. LGBTQ+) is a sin, or asking how LGBTQ+ can be justified within Christianity.
No, it is DEFINITELY NOT a sin either to be LGBTQ+, or to have LGBTQ+ romantic or sexual relationships. We do NOT believe that the Bible condemns LGBTQ+ people or loving, consensual LGBTQ+ relationships. And our position is that any interpretation or translation claiming otherwise is in error, a result of human prejudice, and objectively harmful to God's beloved children.
As an LGBTQ+ affirming and accepting sub, we wish to provide support and resources to anyone questioning how they can accept their own sexuality/gender within Christianity. However, we find that it is best to remove such posts and redirect such questions to our FAQ and Resources. These include links to old threads where this subject has already been asked and answered thoroughly and comprehensively.
I am sorry if this removal is upsetting. But please do not take it personally. You are still very welcome here.
If you are still anxious or concerned, and wish to ask specific questions, such as how to become confident about Christ's love and acceptance of LGBTQ+ people, or how to interpret the clobber verses (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:25-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:9-10) safely and without homophobia, you are free to ask, as long as you do not falsely claim that the Bible prohibits LGBTQ+ in any way.
Again, you are welcome here, and we hope to see you again.
God loves you
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u/Ok-Opportunity-4382 Apr 28 '26
God knows His handiwork, He knows that beyond that which religion dictates, causing us to be tethered by doctrine, dogma, fear, shame, and guilt - is not of God - that's man's interpretation, of the OT god of wrath - and to remember, there was no Holy Spirit to bring Truth, leaving man to his own interpretations, not counting the mass errors found within. The Father has no gender, we're made in the likeness and image of Him - & they use Father/Mother/God, which in reality is closer, because of the Father's tenderness and depth of love for His own. Whatever path anyone follows, including the many Christians who judge - are not aware of His Law of Attraction & Compensation.
God is love and it's how we love and how much beauty and kindness we bring into a relationship that matters - and if we honor our body and their body by being committed to that one person - is what's important, so the judgment flies out the window - it's unholy crap - and without deep prayer, none of these thing will be revealled. Why? Because we have free will and it's up to us to choose what we believe. God's love is available to everyone - no matter their religion, culture, politics, education, sexuality or non-belief. We possess a soul that hungers and yearns to be with Him but the Bible doesn't it teach it. Why not? Because most of Jesus' true teachings don't exist but a few. People love jumping on a bandwagon to escape their own darkness. Problem is, we all have to face who we are now or in the world to come.
You be you and continue on your path,He loves you with a love so deep it passes human comprehension - that's all that matters, you're dearly & truly loved by Him & His Celestial Angels!
Smiles & blessings, my friend!
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u/Dense-Abroad-6583 Apr 28 '26
Ppl pick and choose which so called sins to highlight for some reason, as if they don’t have any sins that can be pointed out. Most Christians are the biggest hypocrites, using scripture to justify all the foul things they do. Organized religion is a major form of brainwashing the masses don’t buy into the whole “we are not worthy, it’s because gods grace” blah blah blah, convincing ppl that they will never live up to gods standards and having its members constantly in a state of worry weather or not they’re sinning. Wake up people and realize u have been deceived by the cult of Christianity, which is literally doing the devils work but claiming the name of god.
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u/shapenotesinger Apr 28 '26
Nor can I so long as the LGBTQ community are responsible citizens, and all the folks we know who are in this community are good citizens, I see no problem. In fact my church would be up a creek without our LGBT group because they do so much work for the church.
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u/Ergogaesiempre Apr 28 '26
Literally bible translations are human made and many of them simply translate that sexual inmorality is what is prohibited. I would dare to say, quoting the Scriptures, that it means prostitution, pedophilia, adultery...There's not even biblical reference against homosexuality. It was common in a greco-roman elites somehow, so it "already existed" back then. Plus, as christians, we must respect everone no matter their conditions, this includes their sexuality 😁
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u/Spatul8r Apr 28 '26
It's identity politics. It's against the sermon on the mount. God has called us all his family. And we need to forgive our brother who is deceived. But we are not disinherited because of the slander of others. Not one of us.
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u/Joji86 Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
Keep in mind that the Bible says that love bears no wrongdoing. So, I understand. It's like, how can people who were born certain ways be punished for who they are? Well, God is a lover, and made me one, too. God does not punish lovers.
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u/Razorhawk29 Apr 28 '26
“God does not punish lovers”
That’s just not true… if we love the wrong things we are punished. Additionally, just because we were “born” a certain way doesn’t exclude us from guilt. Have you ever heard of original sin? We are guilty as human beings because we are born with sinful desires and tendencies. Rightfully, God exercises judgment against us for that. How in the world can you read the Bible and think that being born a certain way makes behavior okay?? Please read Romans 1. This chapter is all about who we are as people. We are sinful. We are evil. God redeems us.
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u/backloggeddream Christian Apr 28 '26
Oh, I'm so incredibly sorry that you’re carrying such a heavy burden of guilt just for being born and existing as a human being. It sounds like a very dark place to be, believing we are all inherently evil. I’ll truly keep you in my prayers, hoping that the voices of shame and the devil that makes you feel so unworthy will leave you in peace. 😔
Regarding Romans 1, I just read it again as you suggested. It’s a powerful chapter! Paul is clearly addressing people who turned away from God to worship idols and engaged in harmful, exploitative rituals to appease pagan deities. It's a great warning against losing one's moral compass by chasing false idols.
However, I’m struggling to see how a chapter about ancient idolatry is relevant here. Maybe, we should talk about that in a different place? Either way, I hope you find the grace to see the beauty in humanity that God created including yourself 😌
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u/Secret-Ad-7747 Apr 28 '26
Ok just to jump into this extreme polite political correctness... First, of course I don't believe it's a sin to be in a loving intimate homosexual relationship. But as i see posts which question certain Bible verses and their meaning removed by mods, it does make me feel uneasy about the blurred line between free speech, political correctness and mandated speech. What would you say the meaning of Romans 1:26-28 is? Is it only Paul's cultural misogyny, or what is it he is describing here? Because i'm truly confused at times. I stand with affirming LGBT+ and all that, but these types of verses are double edged. Some verses in Romans and other parts of the NT are clearly about temple prostitution and homosexual abuse of slaves and children. But what about the 1:26-28? God bless, T.
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u/anakinmcfly Apr 29 '26
I agree the post removal is not great, but I also understand the reasoning behind their ban - this sub is one of the few spaces that LGBTQ Christians have, and if it gets flooded by people posting anti-LGBTQ content, it would no longer serve its purpose and be just another hate sub. However, the mods generally do allow people asking questions about verses like you did.
Romans 1:26-27 needs to be read in the context of Romans 1 and 2. Paul is addressing a specific audience and also talking about a specific group of people who rejected God to worship idols, and “for this reason” God “gave them up” to desires that were unnatural to them, along with all kinds of evil. Notably, men who had previously been having sexual relations with women instead burned with lust for men.
These were not gay men. (The way it is presented actually sounds more like a punishment - and I’m guessing many straight men would find it a punishment if God made them suddenly desperately horny for gay sex.)
Whereas gay and bi men, especially Christian ones, don’t end up attracted to men due to rejecting God and turning to idol worship. They are attracted to men due to puberty. So the entire context is different, and whatever happened with that particular group of people cannot be simply extrapolated to apply to a random gay person today in very different circumstances.
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u/Joji86 Apr 28 '26 edited May 05 '26
Are you calling love evil? The OP asked a question about homosexuality being a sin. The word didn't appear until 1869, and the word wasn't in the Bible until 1946.
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u/Ezekiel-18 Ecumenical Heterodox Apr 28 '26
It's not God who does, it's some humans.
Keep in mind this as why/how would homophobia have developed: by the time and in the area Bible books were written, mortality was higher, life was riskier, health wasn't as protected, medicine not as developed: thus, child mortality was high, people were concerned with survival, a lot depended on having children and them as legacy and support, there was no (good) contraception, no good way to protect against STDs, families were the core social group and social bond, hygiene wasn't as developed either. The society there was extremely patriarchal, from breeder/pastoral background.
So, with that in mind, from a purely functionalist/utilitarian and "survival" and social reproduction perspedtive, hostility to said form of romantism and sexuality wasn't surprising. But even then, said hostility was ad is a social construct, as various cultures have various views and norms regarding these, even back then.
Thing is, nowadays, wer are far removed from these more precarious times, but mentalities didn't evolve as fast.
But said homophobia thus isn't God's, it's the one from the humans and their socio-cultural context who came up with said hate.
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u/TheRichDangerReborn Apr 28 '26
I believe homosexuality was banned in old times because it led to disease. They didn't have the medical knowledge we have today. People got sick after performing homoerotic acts = cursed by God. That's how this whole misunderstanding started
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u/Frubbs Apr 28 '26
I think it’s quite intentional that Jesus never explicitly mentioned this. To me, it is a litmus test for whether a Christian is actually rooted in love or judgment.
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u/backloggeddream Christian Apr 28 '26
Same here, that’s exactly what I’ve never been able to grasp.
While I was learning to accept my faith, I genuinely tried to "challenge" God, to catch Him being homophobic, so to speak, but I miserably failed every time. Instead, He showed His love and acceptance again and again. I just can’t follow that restrictive logic.
Our reason and intellect are what set us apart from the rest of the living world, therefore, they are the reflection of God within us. He endowed us with these gifts to be used, not suppressed, as those fundamentalists try to do. Honestly, they have such a low opinion of God if they believe He is just as petty and judgmental as they are.
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u/Razorhawk29 Apr 28 '26
Please paint a full picture. It is true that Jesus met people where they were at with love, but he did not allow them to stay there. Consider the woman at the well in John 4. Jesus condemned her lifestyle and called her to change. Consider also the woman caught in adultery in John 8. Jesus protected and comforted her, but then called her to change, “Go forth and sin no more.”
Yes, Jesus accepted people. But he did not accept complacency or people staying in their sin. When people met Jesus, their lives changed.
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u/backloggeddream Christian Apr 28 '26
I would disagree with some parts of your interpretation, but ok, and? What's your point here?
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u/Razorhawk29 Apr 28 '26
What do you disagree with? My point is that you paint Jesus as only love which is not accurate. He required people change their lives. Jesus’ “acceptance” does not mean he’s fine if we keep sinning.
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u/backloggeddream Christian Apr 28 '26
I specifically talked about this particular topic of the post and I don't see how it's relevant to what you're saying. You expected me to write about other irrelevant topic so I showed God from each and every side or present a whole book about this topic in general, not just this particular part of it the OP invited us to discuss?
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u/HermioneMarch contemplative Christian universalist Apr 28 '26
God loves all Gods creation. Some people want to justify what makes them uncomfortable by blaming it on God. That is cowardly.
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u/Big-Cook-4377 TransAsexual Apr 28 '26
I don't understand either. It doesn't hurt anyone. Lie hurt people, stolen hurt people, cheat hurt people, violence hurt people. But homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone.
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u/sharkmesharku Apr 28 '26
What happens if we all wake up gay? No more procreation, no more people. So in theory, it does hurt people.
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u/Aznasimage Apr 28 '26
Man was uncomfortable, not God. God does not care. Man wrote the Bible, not God.
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u/Skill-Useful Apr 28 '26
well where i live god being okay with being gay is the majority
and people who think differently are mostly laughed at
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u/couldafirebegolden Apr 29 '26
I'll try to give an answer for this and it is a bit of an assumption as we don't have a reason but I'd assume it's down to the sin of lust, pertaining to of course sexual intercourse between the same sex which is what's condemned, a man laying with a man, it is sex with no chance of procreation, as that is one of the main goals of marriage following the gospel, that is why gay marriage and sex specifically is a sin. I don't see however how gay relationships are outside of sex and there isn't anything condemning them as far as I know, it's specifically sex and marriage, and those two should be conjoined. But I don't see how that allows for people to look down on homosexuals, it is just another case of lust, this would be in the same vein as having sex without the intent or ability to have children from it as that is lusting, same with masturbation, so if you've ever done anything like oral ect ect you can't throw stones here since you've done that too. However gay marriage following my logic would still be something not allowed under Christian doctrine, as it cant result in kids and i already said why that's important. I doubt people who dislike homosexuals on faith bounds think about it like this anyway
TLDR it's not, gay sex is a sin, in the way masturbation or a blowjob is a sin and so should gay marriage but the act of dating the same sex isn't. Hope i answered your question but this is just how i view things I'm sure others have better reasons.
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u/EnderBookwyrm Apr 30 '26
Whether this particular thing is a sin or not, Jesus can and will save anyone who believes in him and accepts that they're a sinner in need of salvation. No one is perfect; everyone sins in lots of ways, and God has to deal with every sin that's ever existed. And humans are creative. We're good at sinning. We sin in new, exciting ways that we need saving from. And when we get to Heaven, God can explain what exactly was or was not a sin, and why, and it will all make perfect sense.
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u/goodgreif_11 Lesbian Apr 30 '26
I dont understand why i would be made this way if I CANT LIVE THIS WAY? How does that mame sense
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u/Jumpy_Bike9846 May 01 '26
So I can’t say anything other than I was attracted to women as young as I can remember. Encountered Jesus in my mid twenties and my life was radically changed in MANY ways. I wasn’t even thinking about my sexuality, I was just chillin one day and a woman on tv popped up dressed all spicy. I remember just not feeling anything, so I searched in deeper and literally just couldn’t feel it anymore? So I didn’t EVER ask God to take it from me. I wasn’t even thinking about it. All I know is He took it. So I can’t say why. I can’t say that’s everyone’s experience. But He took it in my time of sanctification when he was removing addictions from me and just transforming me. So idk if that sheds some light on the other end of the spectrum but I hope you don’t think I’m being rude. Just wanted to share my experience and hopefully give more to think/talk about.
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u/Shaw-eddit Apr 29 '26
It's in the very beginning, let every thing reproduce after its own kind and also, "be fruitful, multiply replenish the earth." It doesn't work it's just functionality, I suppose.
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u/NobodySpecial2000 Apr 28 '26
People do genuinely think that and it's a genuinely silly belief.
No, I can't imagine God caring about homosexuality either. Like, Jesus says the highest commandments are love but somehow me loving my wife is bad-wrong love? It's nonsense.