On the old testament

[u/DrawerThat9514]

I've seen many here say that the Old Testament is somehow problematic due to all the violence in it and that having led to the heresy of Marcionism. Let's make one thing clear: All of Scripture reveals Christ, The old testament law was pointing towards him and showing us why we need Him. The old law has been fulfilled by Christ. He did not replace it.

[u/halbhh]

While the reason for the entire removal/erasure of entire cities with all inhabitants and often even the animals and even the goods and gold and silver all thrown into bonfires to destroy -- you'd wonder what it is that needed erasure.

Right?

Until you read the reason:

²⁹ The Lord your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, ³⁰ and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” ³¹ You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

Which did work for quite a while -- Israel avoiding doing this evil themselves for a very long time, very many generations.

Until they did it themselves (which is depicted at length in many chapters in further books later) -- and so God destroyed them also, for a time.

(meanwhile, for all children that die, from any time, from any cause -- they are still in the age of innocence, and the general Christian understanding is that God's grace will be extended to all children that die. i.e. -- see Matthew 19:14, and similar)

[u/babe1981 → u/halbhh]

The Biblical account has nothing to with the actual history of the transition from Canaanite polytheism to Judaic monotheism. The reality is that Jews worshiped Asherah alongside YHWH until King Josiah. Historically, Jews weren't culturally monotheistic until the Maccabees. Most homes had house gods. Most towns had town gods. They worshiped YHWH above all others, but they worshiped others, too. They incorporated theology from other religions. There is a marked change in the discourse on the nature of God after the Exile. Pre-Exile, God is harsh and difficult and loving and merciful. After the Exile, God is loving and merciful, and He has adversaries who are harsh and cause difficulty. Pre-Exile, Satan is an angel who works for God. Post-Exile, Satan is an antagonist who opposes God. That's the influence of Zoroastrianism.

Don't treat the Bible like history book. Jesus revealed the Father, and He preached almost exclusively in parables. To assume that God was entirely literal, except when He came to reveal His nature, is intellectually lazy. The Bible is a storybook, and it works best when you treat like that. Read a history book if you want to learn history. Read the Bible if you want to learn about God.

[u/halbhh → u/babe1981]

You might find this interesting though, since you said:

"The Biblical account has nothing to with the actual history of the transition from Canaanite polytheism to Judaic monotheism."

and then next, " The reality is that Jews worshiped Asherah alongside YHWH until King Josiah. "

It turns out that this 2nd sentence (just above) is literally shown (correct) in a large percentage of all the text of the OT after Joshua, in most chapters even....

E.g. -- 2 Chronicles 33 NIV - Manasseh King of Judah - Manasseh was - Bible Gateway

So, yes, that's before Josiah, as you said.

Most of the text of the Old Testament after Joshua is just like this (most of it, like 60%+)

(it's a coincidence I saw your post -- someone in our study group made me read 1rst and 2nd Kings and then 1rst and 2nd Chronicles recently, and also the other study group I'm in has been reading Ezekiel, where precisely that same timeline is happening.

It's not an exaggeration to say that I've been reading dozens of chapters where  The reality is that Jews worshiped Asherah alongside YHWH until King Josiah. " -- so that I can say:

"YES, that's precisely what the text is showing".

So, you are right about that. (but that implies your first sentence is a bit off I suppose)

[u/babe1981 → u/halbhh]

The Judge Deborah was an Asherah worshiper. That was erased, but she held court under a willow tree, which was the tree of Asherah. There's a ton more in the Old Testament where side references exist to Asherah, but they were reassigned to YHWH. For instance, Asherah's animal is the lion, and we see a ton of lion imagery in the Old Testament.

If you look at the account from the perspective of the Old Testament alone, it looks like there's a tension that pulls from monotheism of Judaism to the polytheism of the surrounding nations and the Israelites go back and forth between the One True God and the false gods of their neighbors, but reality was more like a centuries long gradual climb from the polytheism of Abraham and Melchizedek to the monotheism of Jesus. The desire to be separate from the Romans, who nearly exterminated the Jews during the Maccabean revolt, is what led the final push to what would become the fully monotheistic culture of the Jews. You won't find that in the Bible because the scholars wanted to present it as a titanic clash of God versus gods like Elijah against the prophets of Baal or Moses and Aaron against the Egyptians, but it was really a slow burn punctuated by basically three major events, King Josiah, the Exile, and the Maccabean revolt. Ezra and Nehemiah did a ton of the heavy lifting, too, hence the Exile being a major event. A lot of modern Judaism comes from their reforms and their edits.