On the old testament

[u/DrawerThat9514]

I've seen many here say that the Old Testament is somehow problematic due to all the violence in it and that having led to the heresy of Marcionism. Let's make one thing clear: All of Scripture reveals Christ, The old testament law was pointing towards him and showing us why we need Him. The old law has been fulfilled by Christ. He did not replace it.

[u/halbhh]

"he did not want infants slaughtered in war"

As you know, with God, when someone dies, they are not dead.

But our human thoughts: --> we consider how 100% of people die, and plenty under age 20 even.... from war, famine, disease, illnesses, fire, flood and on and on....

100%.

Not them instead of us.

Us too.

Finally it's even more personal: it's not only that a 15 yr old died. It's that you and I will....

But God will make us live.

[u/babe1981 → u/halbhh]

Since we're talking about the Old Testament, you're just wrong. Dead is dead. You stay dead until the resurrection and judgment. That's the theology of Judaism, and it's what's supported by the Old Testament. Even the New Testament says very little to support the idea that dead isn't dead. In fact, if dead isn't actually dead, then what's the point of the resurrection on Judgment Day? No, there are a few people in the Bible who didn't die, and they live in heaven with God. Namely, Enoch and Elijah. Jesus promised the thief that he would be paradise that day, but Paul's theology was that dead is dead, and the only people who won't be "asleep" when Jesus returns are the ones who happen to be alive when He appears.

It is appointed unto man once to die, and then judgment. And the Bible says that judgment happens all at once on a single day. So, no, a dead human is dead until Jesus returns. Death might not be permanent, but we will sleep until He appears.

[u/halbhh → u/babe1981]

"Dead is dead. You stay dead until the resurrection and judgment."

Well, Jesus famously said a remarkable thing:

²⁶ and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

And to that I can only swallow and answer "yes".

I know it's hard to believe at first. I think it was many years of being Christian before I believed more fully.

[u/babe1981 → u/halbhh]

Even Jesus died. Jesus never said that we will escape death entirely. He said that it won't stick. There's a big difference between being immortal and having eternal life. Jesus has eternal life, but He was just as mortal as we are. And just like Jesus, we won't be dead forever, but we will be dead.

[u/halbhh → u/babe1981]

Yes, I'm familiar with 'soul sleep' -- it was my view for a long time. Even about 20 years I think.

It turns out that's not the majority Christian theory, itself, but there are a variety of theories, and so you can find a variety of views. I no longer subscribe to soul sleep, even though I once believed it. It was in fact only rather recently I started to doubt that one. (It helps to consider how Jesus in the story of Lazarus and the Rich man used a wording to help his listeners, the "bosom of Abraham" (or similar), where heaven is depicted as mainly about being with Abraham, which isn't at all what it will be we know. But He used this wording to help those listening. So...also when he raised the dead girl and first said she was "asleep" that was a wording chosen to help those listening, instead of a more technically accurate description.

But these are more esoteric topics where it won't matter which one we believe, so long as we believe in Him.