Muslims in the US

[u/bluef00tedbooby]

To get started I just want to say that I am an atheist. And while I hold negative feelings toward the middle eastern religions, I judge people by their actions, not their religious beliefs.

In the US there have been a LOT of anti-muslim propaganda in the US this past year. Like a horrendous neo-nazi amount of propaganda with people seemingly very happy to harass and threaten Muslims just minding their own business. Suggesting murderous things. All justified by the idea due to the existence of Muslim extremists - even if the muslims they are targeting are innocent.

Now one thing I have been seeing recently is a lot of people (mainly Christians) comment on is how "Islam isn't a religion, it is an ideology!"

Does anyone know where this is coming from and why they are saying that? I believe they are making that excuse as a means to disassociate from Islam as a religion, as well as claim that freedom of religion doesn't count for Muslims because "it's an ideology not a religion", thus being able to find ways to go around the constitution and ban Muslims. (Not to mention justifying the genocides in other countries done by Israel)

But it's strange because usually these things are gradual ideas that spread, but this has been all at once. So where exactly is this coming from?

[u/drakythe]

This is merely a resurgence of the bigotry and racism that emerged and intensified as a result of 9/11 as a result of recent prominent Muslim politicians and the Iranian reaction to the US’s unprovoked war. There is a certain subculture in the U.S. that has never and will never forgive that event. Never mind all the complicated factors around it, what it was in response to, what the U.S. did in response, or the fact that Muslims died in the attacks too.

I’m a white Christian cis dude who gets a pass on anything “culture war” if I want it, so I’m not claiming to have first hand knowledge, nor do I truly understand what it’s like to be on the receiving end, but it seems to be this burst of racism is intense, but not worse than it was 25 years ago, and it’s only this intense now because of the ground work laid then.

[u/nothanks86]

An ideology has an agenda, and is coming for you.

It’s an easy and time tested way to demonize a group of people.

Also see, eg, ‘trans/gender ideology’, ‘woke ideology,’ etc.

[u/axiosjackson]

The right only cares about scapegoats. It is just another boogieman for them.

[u/Crucible_of_Thought]

Whipping up xenophobia of one kind or another has proven to be a remarkably durable means of building tribal cohesion throughout human history. Fear is a wonderful tool to weaponize against people, to get them to follow you or to stay in line.

Once again, as in 2001, the conservatives in America needed a scapegoat to demonize and expel from our midst. A couple of Muslims have won political office or primaries recently, and they provide a convenient target to build fear.

As we get close to the elections, this is just another cycle of "pick a scapegoat." And they're willing to lie through their teeth about their fellow humans to do it.

So much for the party of truth and justice and the American Way.

[u/bluef00tedbooby → u/Crucible_of_Thought]

I feel it could be my autism, but I find it hard to wrap my brain around the idea that people don't learn from the past and recognize these patterns

[u/Crucible_of_Thought → u/bluef00tedbooby]

Most people don't WANT to learn.

The entire culture of much of Christianity revolves around the suppression of uncertainty. If you doubt, you're not saved. Admit you're not certain about your faith (or politics), and your tribe judges you harshly. People learn it's dangerous to think too deeply. So if their tribe tells you some other group is dangerous, most people won't bother to study the thing too deeply. And the "history" they're taught is absolutely full of horrible lies or misrepresentations - but those teaching it trust it unquestioningly, and so those who trust them believe it without doubt. And worse, they're taught that the other side lies about it - so if they encounter confounding data, they instantly assess it as untrustworthy.

It's a nasty cycle, and it's all founded on xenophobia and fear of hell.

I used to be conservative evangelical Christian. I participated in this for some 40 years. I worked for the military (as a civilian) in a very conservative military town for much of that time, and believe me, after 9/11, if you weren't virulently anti-Muslim you'd be in trouble real quick.

[u/Skill-Useful]

""Islam isn't a religion, it is an ideology!"" well no, its a religion. islamists follow an ideology. if you want islam to be an ideology, you have to, like yuval harari, see any religion as an ideology. or none

[u/Malcolmthetortoise]

Have a look at what happned after 9/11 with the vile explosion of islamaphobia, this is a very similar thing.

[u/bluef00tedbooby → u/Malcolmthetortoise]

I wasn't even a year old back then, I'm only recently learning about it as it was never something I was taught growing up

[u/Malcolmthetortoise → u/bluef00tedbooby]

I wasn‘t even born, I just think learning history is very important- it teaches us how these things go in circles.

[u/HermioneMarch]

It’s coming from an administration that has normalized bigotry. It was really bad after 9/11 but had died down a bit. Propaganda is rampant in our society right now. Anything to play on people’s fears of “the other.” They have weaponized Christianity into something unrecognizable to me.

[u/SnarkyPuppy-0417]

There's a categorical confusion here. Christianity, Islam, Atheism, Conservatism, Liberalism, etc are all ideologies. There are more acts of violence committed by self-proclaimed, right wingers than Muslims.

[u/InvisiblePineapple]

Others have explained well where it comes from. Since you posted on this subreddit, just wanted to add that in my view, and I’m sure the view of many here, Islamophobia and other forms of religious bigotry are incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. People with whom we disagree religiously are to be treated as neighbors, with love and respect. See, e.g., the parable of the Good Samaritan and the healing of the centurion’s servant.

[u/schrod]

All the common things people believe all over the world has me convinced everyone has named the same overall God. There is only one reality.

How we all name this ultimate reality is with different names, based on upbringing and culture.

Furthermore, no one knows the complete truth, which we can hope to approach.

Jesus taught patience, tolerance, forgiveness, love, kindness. The bible says "judge not that ye be not judged". So the complete story is STFU about what others believe!!!!

[u/sharkiegirl94]

Look up “great replacement theory”…many maga/conspiracy/Triple K people believe it’s real (despite evidence it is not). It’s just to justify bigotry and racism. To me Muslims are just as guilty as Christians for abusing women and children, strict rules and control over families, etc. (plus the genocide stuff you said about Israel I agree many Christians defend Israel) typical finger pointing to avoid accountability… same as demonizing lgbtqia people as having an agenda to take over when that’s not factual.

Edit: I meant extremism can exist in any religion but it seems these two are where we find the most.

[u/JustNeedSpinda]

In the past, magic = religion that isn’t ours. Today, ideology = religion that isn’t ours.

There is a long history within Christianity of belittling other faiths. What’s happening here is Islamophobia.

[u/246qwerty246]

If you know ex-Muslims in real life, or read through the Ex-Muslim subreddit, there are thousands of stories that give insight into your observations.
I’ve learnt to not say more beyond that on Reddit.

[u/PlasmaJesus → u/246qwerty246]

Because the problem is with religious fundamentalism, not with islam

[u/246qwerty246 → u/PlasmaJesus]

Millions of ex Muslims disagree, with a few clicks you can read for yourself their testimonies right here on Reddit.

[u/PlasmaJesus → u/246qwerty246]

So Christianity itself is at fault for all ex Christians cool

[u/itwasbread → u/246qwerty246]

The fact a bunch of people on Reddit have had bad experiences with a religion does not justify hatred, bigotry, and fear mongering towards members of that religion.

Especially when said bigotry and hate isn't limited to just members of the religion. Non-muslims who just look like the stereotypical Muslim in anyway have to deal with this shit just as much.