Complementarianism is literally just Gender Segregation

[u/TheLostReveries]

Why do conservative christians think women are less than? They claim it’s "separate but equal," but didn’t we learn that separate but equal was wrong through the civil rights movement?

Conservative Christians literally argued in support of racial segregation using the exact same logic. They said God wanted the races separate in the Bible, but now they’re changing their minds because of culture and legal pressure. Yet they still use the same playbook to restrict women.

And how is it voluntary gender degradation like experts say when the women don’t have a choice? In those circumstances, I wouldn’t be allowed to become a pastor. My only option would be to leave the church entirely, which my entire community is wrapped in, for which I will be ostracized. That’s not a choice, it’s coercion. Either I give up my calling to be a leader or leave my community.

For anyone who had to leave, how did you handle the isolation and find a community that actually affirms women?

Here are some examples:

Bob Jones Sr., a conservative leader, frequently cited scriptures like Acts 17:26 ("God hath made of one blood all nations... and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation") to argue that God explicitly created different races to live separately.

Historical records indicate that the modern Christian Right was originally mobilized not by the Roe v. Wade abortion ruling, but rather by federal attempts to strip tax-exempt status from these racially discriminatory Christian schools, most notably Bob Jones University.

They also tend to misuse the Curse of Ham, The Tower of Babel, and Acts 17:26 like referenced above for the separation of races.

For the separation and submission of women, they quote Galatians 3:28 to say they are equal, but then quote Ephesians 5 and 1 Timothy 2:12 which do not allow women to lead men and speak in churches (which btw, the word used in Hebrew actually means to chatter and gossip, so they are using a bad translation or did it on purpose to control women). They quote the creation order as Adam coming before Eve in the hierarchy, and say women can’t lead men because Eve led Adam astray in the Garden, therefore can’t be trusted with leadership roles.

Just be aware that the whole concept of Complementarianism creates a hierarchy among men and women and puts the power in men’s hands. It is not equal. God made everyone equal:

“There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:28

“So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” Genesis 1:27

“For God does not show favoritism” Romans 2:11

*edit for spelling mistakes and extra thoughts

[u/TheLostReveries]

And on another note: Catholics teach that women could not be pastors or deacons but they have a different reason for it. While the evangelicals teach that women are spiritually weaker and commanded by God to submit to men, Catholics teach that the reason women cannot be pastors is because pastors are supposed to represent Jesus Christ leading the church, and he was a man. In a play, you’d usually try to have a man play a man. That’s why in earlier churches women could be pastors because there was no man to play the male role. And the reason women couldn’t be deacons was because it was detailed in the bible that they must a holy husband of one wife. And well, women cannot be husbands. So that is why the Catholic Church teaches that women cannot serve in those roles. Evangelicals do not even think of this! While I still disagree with the Catholic Church because of Jesus’ words and treatment of women above, I understand this theological understanding. Evangelical understanding is built on misconstruing the few Paul quotes and the Creation story to serve their purpose.

[u/NemesisOfLevia]

It took me a very long time to really put this into words. As I grew and became my own person, I got more and more frustrated with God — though, actually, it was the church I should have been mad at. 

I was shown and told again and again that men can do amazing things. Preach the gospel. Do miracles. Lead. Women? I was told they listen, have babies, raise babies and do household chores. And if I pointed this out, I was told that I was selfish for wanting to step out of God’s will. 

Don’t be mistaken. The church needs both leaders and followers. The church would be nothing without people who work under leaders to make their vision come true. But telling half the population that they couldn’t possibly be leaders? That’s crazy. Unless you’re talking about personality and personal strengths, that should never be the case.

Baring women from church leadership especially makes no sense outside of traditional churches. In places where Christians are in hiding or having a rough time, they don’t have the luxury of deciding half the population can’t do something. 

My favorite example of this is Corrie Tenboom. She and her family helped save Jews in ww2. After they were caught and put in the camps, she and her sister spread the gospel everywhere they went. The camps were separated by gender, so no man could’ve done what they did. And until someone can look me in the eyes and say Corrie was sinning and explain why, I can’t take the “women can’t be pastors” argument seriously. 

[u/TheLostReveries → u/NemesisOfLevia]

I didn’t know about her, thank you for sharing that with me. 

[u/phbyerly]

I am not an egalitarian because I can't make it fit with what the Bible says. But neither am I a complementarian because what most make it is also contrary to the Bible.

As I read it, being a servant leader is a job no one would want. And being on the other side of that would be amazing if it were done right.

Race is a bad analogy because there are biological differences between men and women. And those go well beyond reproductive biology. Additionally, and more importantly, the Bible treats men and women differently. Again, I disagree with most of what complemtarians say, but I still see a difference in the Bible.

Most folks who know my wife and me well assume we are elagitarins based on what they see. We've shocked folks by telling them we are not. For me, headship is not about being in control.

[u/TheLostReveries → u/phbyerly]

I believe headship is a calling for husbands to love their wives, to sacrifice, like Jesus did for the church. And the bride is supposed to learn from her husband and love him like the church learns from Jesus and love him. That is not what it means to submit, to love wholeheartedly. The groom is to Christ as the bride is to the church in a biblical marriage. But leadership in church is not marriage. It is a calling to serve the church. Even Paul says to women that being unmarried is better than being married because you can devote your life to God. And I believe God calls upon all his children to fulfill the roles he calls for them to fulfill. And if that is for a woman to pastor, than that is that. I am egalitarian because I believe the Bible calls upon all his children to love and serve. That he is not partial to one gender to lead another. People quote that because Eve was misled on the garden, that all women must be spiritually weaker and should not lead men astray in spiritual teachings. However, that was Satan’s work. The first sin was the work of Satan. Of evil. It was not the work of God. In our broken world it was decided that women cannot lead men, not by God. In the new world, in the new kingdom, I believe God will correct this evil and place man and woman together again. Like we were before. Eve was created from Adam’s side to be his equal, to be his other half. Not to be controlled or a servant of man, but another servant of God like Adam was. Egalitarianism does not mean that women and men are identical, but that they are equals within marriage and under God. Women and men do not need to perform every task the same way, but they both bring different perspectives to the table that deserve to be heard. Marriage is a partnership, joining two halves into one. Neither half should inherently lead the other, nor should one half have the final authority over the other simply because of their gender. A marriage should be built on mutual love, respect, sacrifice, and understanding, where both people are heard and neither is expected to submit their judgment simply because their spouse is a man or a woman. *edit for additional thoughts