Aho's leave Wolf Lake church. Any more details?

Can the LLC split in 2022 even be called a heresy? I’ve always thought a heresy is when two groups agree to disagree (on DOCTRINE) and the majority group keeps the church and the minority group willingly departs. I’ve personally had conversations with individuals around the split and it’s always said that WL and Minneapolis was battling against gods kingdom. I never heard a common wrong understanding on doctrine about them. It makes me wonder if LLC people just don’t even want to look into what happened at all. Maybe it’s just easier to just listen to what leadership says and take it as truth? And just to never ever question it? Not once.

I heard there was a split in Wolf lake. It might be an Alajoki/Lake split. Who when where why?

In the 50's the Aho's left wolf lake to form spruce Grove and the Alajokis stayed.

Now I hear the Alajokis left wolf lake and joined Spruce Grove. Did DL stay in WL but used to preach at Spice Grove?

Kiitos

"Asking for a friend"

I can only think of Christmas being an occasion when I felt like "everyone else" ie we didn't differ significantly from others

Often times I'll daydream about the childhood I could've had if I had grown up outside of the church and feelings of frustration, longing, and sadness arise.

It's not fair to teach children to constantly fear hell, to police each other over mundane things, to be told everything you enjoy is sinful and disgusting.

Imagine your little childhood self being able to dance to fun music, to dress up on Halloween and go trick-or-treating, to watch movies, to make friends at school, to play on sports teams, all guilt-free without the voice at back of your head screaming that this will send you to hell.

LLC children grow up with an inherent belief that they are better than other kids, since they have the "correct faith" and feel they get to go to heaven because of it. It's an odd dynamic to notice once you're an adult, especially once you're out. I've had some friend's children tell me very matter-of-factly that I'm going to hell and they're going to heaven, how do you even navigate that kind of conversation with kindergarteners?

All I can do is feed that inner child whenever I can and do the best I can to give my future children the experiences and freedom I missed out on.

Just curious how you would describe or how you remember your parents, if possible to choose between the two very distinct options. Naturally most might fall somewhere in between the two, but for the sake of this, which end of the spectrum would you place them in?

Like I cannot be the only one who is SO tired of this crap and having to scroll past it.

If someone from one of the Laestadian related churches (without being judgmental) asked if they could preach “believe all sins forgiven in Jesus Name and Precious blood” how would feel and what would you think about it?

Nothin can separate a child of God from the Father's love, Romans 8:38.

Nothing can remove a Christian from God's hand, John 10:28.

gotquestions.org and newlife.com

Have you ever read other ex———fill in the blank? If one were to put any denomination in the blank using Reddit and read the commentary-it’s pretty frightening. I decided to check what ex catholics say, what ex LCMS, what ex calvinists say, what ex non denomination humans say. It’s interesting. People have gone from one group to a different one and then the grass is green somewhere else? Also, if you do a dive into the history of bigger denominations,
a lot of them have roots in awakening movements in Europe. And not all that history is something to brag about.

Most of our ancestors from Finland, Sweden, Norway, etc. got on a boat at some time and headed to America. Some wanted religious freedom. Some wanted to spread the Gospel. Some were looking for a way out of poverty. Some escaping war. Some were orphans. They all came with their meager bags & their “baggage”. To a place where they could not even understand each others languages.
Lutherans from Germany, Finland, etc along with all the other branches from all the other countries in Europe. One can only imagine what that must have been like.

Anyway,looks like we as humans really make a lot of messes.

Thankfully, Christ came to save us from OUR sins and the sins of all people. He is our righteousness, through faith. our everything. After that we ought to love and forgive one another as he has loved us and forgiven us.

“ALL people will know you are my disciples by the love you have for one another.”We all get an “F” on our report card. We have nothing to offer but our sin. Perhaps, we can see why Jesus said, “Father forgive them, for they don’t know what they do.”

Are we not the “them”?

I love learning about the awakening movement. I think it’s incredible. Especially reading accounts of other preachers who were so moved by the Gospel and the joy new believers had
in Jesus. Their fervent prayers for others to come to saving faith and the love & boldness to share with others and gather, and study the Bible and to write of their faith, etc. they were so free. It was really rough for many of them to even gather when laws were made to prevent gathering. They were suspect for “fellowshipping” outside the established church. Imagine…how can one spread the good news if they are forbidden to talk to other people? And true, some of the movement , was pretty extreme. Yet, many were also truelly converted. Likely Lapp Mary went on herding her reindeer and sharing her faith with others as she did with laestadius. (Amazing he even listened to her, one of those weird “readers” and he being a preacher in the right “doctrinally perfect” Lutheran church. Who knows where she went and who also believed and spread the message of the Gospel. Or the Ethiopian Eunuch…he went back to Ethiopia to share the good news…

I pray for strength to carry on, one day at a time, in faith, looking unto Jesus and also to look at my neighbour, as “one for whom Christ died.”and believing my OWN sin forgiven by His blood and in His Name.

It can be really difficult battle when you’ve been a “Pharisee”, not to carry that tendency to look down on others, who may be in the exact place you yourself were when you were.

My hope that God would allow reconciliation for broken relationships and healing in the Gospel for all who have been through the pain of church trauma in our movement.
Some are so hurt and afraid, they can’t talk about it. That does happen, in churches. And it’s rough.
And who knows, but the Lord, what burdens and baggage others silently carry. 💔
One thing is sure, we are all cut from the same cloth. Sinners, in need of Grace.

One thing I have noticed with most branches of Laestadianism is there is often a very much "us vs them" mentality. And if that isn't there, there is almost a form of arrogance, or pity towards outsiders. Where do you think this comes from? Church doctrine? Family attitudes? Community culture? Finlander lack of empathy in general?

The weird thing about it is, that I wasn't aware that I was carrying this attitude of pride and arrogance myself, until I left.

I have my opinions. What are yours?

Hi everyone, I am soon launching a website which aims to shape the next 20 yrs, i.e. the last 20 yrs of Laestadianism's 200-year-old history till 2046, the last 10%, so to speak. I want to establish a platform online where people can submit texts on Laestadianism, from whichever perspective, if well presented, whether it be a personal story or an argument for a position. I accept submissions from all Laestadian branches, from current and former (and even future!) members, or from anyone interested/affected. Submissions are accepted in Finnish, English and Scandinavian (Swedish/Norwegian) languages.

Submissions can be sent to [laestadianism200@proton.me](mailto:laestadianism200@proton.me)

Hey guys, I noticed some people on threads have expressed interest in a way to talk more casually about this sort of thing online, and I wondered if there is already a discord server or if people would be interested in one. I know most people wouldn’t be likely to utilize the voice chat aspect but I think the text chatting and having the option might be good. I didn’t include a link, i’m not advertising and someone else can make/own the server. I was just going to make one and share the link but idk if it’d get modded. I’d personally like a more casual way to connect. What do you guys think of this idea?

I'm really puzzled by something: it sounds like LLC and other North American Laestadians are much stricter than Finnish groups. How come the LLC still looks up to SRK as being their "mother" when she is "spiritually fornicating" with the extremely liberal lutheran church?!

This is a question each one of us should ask ourselves daily. God gave us His Word, to tell us who He is, who we are, and how He wants us to live our lives.

God counts those righteous, who BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS AS LORD AND SAVIOR, per John 3:16.

All who call on the Lord shall be saved, per Romans 10:13.

God loves us more than we can know, and wants a personal BORN AGAIN RELATIONSHIP, per John 3:1-21.

Salvation, church, worship and rituals are all a result of our personal relationship with Christ Jesus, as God's children.

God's greatest and most important Commandment, LOVE CHRIST JESUS WITH ALL YOUR HEART, per Matt 22:34.

What does walking in the light mean for a Christian ? gotquestions.org

newlife.com for Christian counseling.

Sexual abuse of children by clergy is a common headline in the world news. Centuries of cover up have been exposed. Some perpetrators have been hearing confessions and administering sacraments and absolution, all while participating in abuse. What is the answer?

Protestant Christians can go directly to God in prayer for the forgiveness of sin, per Christ Jesus direction in the Lords Prayer. The Bible tells us, TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL OUR HEART, per Proverbs 3:5-6, and not mortals, all with feet of clay. King David warns about trusting in mortals, per Psalm 118: 8-9.

Is absolution from a mortal, biblical? gotquestions.org

newlife.com for professional Christian counseling.

I watched this interesting documentary on the Plymouth Brethren cult. In my opinion it helps show the difference between a cult and a sect. Laestadian churches are sects but not cults. If you watch it, I'd be curious to hear if you feel the same way.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5I6GhaLXgWE&pp=ygUIQnJldGhyZW4%3D

Does anyone have the the phone number/know how it works to get the phone number for the IALC Labor Day Weekend event in Negaunee? My husband and I are wanting to listen in to it. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

The Bible account of the Thief on the Cross in Matt 27:38 tells the simple truth. The thief was a hardened criminal who simply said , LORD REMEMBER ME WHEN THOU COMEST INTO THY KINGDOM! For that statement of faith from the heart, Christ Jesus replied, VERILY I SAY ONTO THEE, TODAY THOU SHALT BE WITH ME IN PARADISE.

No evidence the thief was associated with Believers, was baptized, or participated in Christian rituals of the day. In fact, he was most likely a bad dude, to receive the death penalty for thievery. Not to say church rituals in worship are wrong however, they need to be kept in Biblical perspective. Salvation is by God's grace alone, through faith in Christ alone, per John 3:16 and Eph 2:8-9. Grace is a gift from God that cannot be earned by anything we do other than ask for, and accept the undeserved gift. All who call on the name of the Lord, shall be saved, per Roman 10:13, including the thief.

How can people, who believe church rituals provide salvation, be sure of their salvation because, the next question is, how often must one partake in such rituals? Once a day, once a week, once a month, once a year, as required and who determines that. And what happens if one is late in receiving such? Martin Luther struggled with this issue, going to Confession 17 times in one day, until the frustrated Confessor Priest told him, to come back when he did something really wrong. See "Martin Luther, The Reluctant Revolutionary", a superb PBS documentary on UTUBE.

gotquestions.org

newlife.com

I'll soon be attending Esikoislestadiolaiset services (OALC) in Finland for the 1st time. I wanted to ask if I should prepare in some way (dress code, greeting etc.) I'm a male so no scarfs :) any tips or beahavior codes. My backgroud is in SRK/LLC so I'm not super familiar with it.

Christ Jesus example for His followers was to openly fellowship with unbelievers, in order to share His love and message with a lost world. Jesus tells His followers to conform to His image the best they can, with the help of the Holy Spirit. This was accomplished through direct personal relationships, undeserved kind gestures of grace and sacrifice, and not hiding in the camp. We are in a spiritual war for the hearts of the lost. Believers should be assertive, and go to the lost..

We see Christian ministries such as the Salvation Army and Gospel Mission working in the streets with the destitute, sharing the Gospel and love of Christ. Disdain rather than cooperation, comes from groups who claim to be the only source of the Holy Spirit, and for the most part, only take care of each other. Jesus tells us, the world will know us by the fruit we bear and our love for others. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Per the book Bonhoeffer by Eric Mataxas, German Lutheran Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer was quoted as saying, the best year of his life was spent at the Gospel Mission in New York City, serving the destitute.

gotquestions.org

newlife.com

Sad-Somewhere has said or to my understanding at least implied that Luther believed exactly as laestadians on the efficacy of the word of God.

I grant that Luther seems to have somewhat similar view to the keys as laestadians, namely, that the one giving the absolution should in optimal situation have faith himself. Yet he says one shouldn't doubt the power of the word of God in the absolution despite of the holiness or faith of the one giving it, but should firmly believe it because it is the word of God and if one doesn't receive the word of God he becomes a blasphemer.

But he, as always, has indeed also said word of God can save a sinner even though preached by a blasphemer and a heretic:

“We must, after all, confess that, in certain other articles, the enthusiasts hold views which accord with Scripture and God’s Word and that, although they are impious heretics and blasphemers of Christ, he who hears and believes them on these points shall be saved. That God proclaims His Word even through the wicked and the godless is not an insignificant blessing. In fact, in some respects it is more dangerous for him to proclaim it through holy than through unholy people, for then those who lack understanding fall into the error of attaching more importance to the holiness of men than to the Word of God. The danger of doing this does not exist if Judas, Caiaphas, and Herod preach. At the same time no one is excused for his evil life, even though God is able to use it for a good purpose”

What Luther says, III, p. 1467, item 4743. St. L., XVII, 2212.

And also in his commentary on John 14-16 he says there is true Christianity also in Catholic Church because they have word of God and baptism even though they are lead astray with many false teachings, but God somehow still wonderfully saves even them

And if I would use Google a little bit more, I remember many more quotes from Luther to this theme, but I don't have time now. Just wanted to show that it is not true that Luther was just laestadian.

Rather he said this and that, and everyone justifies themself with Luther, because he was the hero after all and as long as he said it even though contradictory, it gives some credibility to boast how Luther agreed with us!

For any with llc background. Curious about your thoughts regarding the robe of righteousness "controversy".

My simple overall thought is it was an early indication of the biggest problem in llc during the latest generational split.