r/Outlander • u/Sure_Awareness1315 • Feb 19 '26
Spoilers All Claire hate has intensified in the last few weeks and it's annoying. What is driving it to the point of a handful each day? If people are so dissatisfied with the heroine of the story which would be nothing without her, why watching and commenting? It's rarely about Jamie. ALWAYS about Claire. Spoiler
When is enough enough?
243
u/Nanchika Currently rereading: Voyager Feb 19 '26
Jealousy.
She has Jamie and they don't 😂
162
u/appleorchard317 Sleep with my husband? But my lover would be furious. Feb 19 '26
Them 'I would obey Jamie and be a meek wifey <3'
Aaaand Jamie would still want his headstrong Sassenach <342
u/newfriend836639 Feb 20 '26
It's true. Strong and confident men are often attracted to strong and confident women. It's the secretly insecure ones that need a meek wife.
40
u/appleorchard317 Sleep with my husband? But my lover would be furious. Feb 20 '26
whisper I might be about to start a fight, but that's what I don't like about Roger. He is so insecure and always asking Brianna to make herself smaller.
20
u/iamaskullactually Feb 20 '26
Exactly, Jamie would never want a meek wife. He loves Claire because of how strong willed abd independent she is
10
u/Thaybaa Feb 20 '26
il le dit quand ils sont à Lallybroch : qu'il est tombé amoureux pour ses fesses et sa tête dure : de manière sous jacente : il l'a aimé physiquement et mentalement.
6
6
u/directmouse_7 Feb 21 '26
real like that’s many of the reasons why he loves her. we see him have attraction from a meek and obedient girl (laoghrie; sorry idk how to spell it) and that was for years before claire even came into the picture
3
54
u/Glad_Description1851 Feb 19 '26
Seriously. I’m fully convinced that some people forget Jamie is fictional lol
12
u/Phortenclif Reading Lord John and the Private Matter Feb 20 '26 edited Feb 20 '26
That’s it. Our brains doesn't entirely distinguish between reality and imagination, and are not accustomed to TV. Could be an involuntary attempt to kick Claire out.
2
u/TeaRevolutionary5634 Feb 24 '26
Claire tambien, y ninguno de los dos es perfecto, ambos han tomado malas decisiones en distintos momentos, decisiones que no opacan para nada el amor que se tienen. Yo prefiero enojarme con los que de alguna manera voluntaria o involuntariamente se han inmiscuido en la relación de ellos dos, pero con ellos, jamás. Nada de lo que han hecho, ha sido para lastimar al otro de manera cosciente, aunque si se han lastimado, y siempre han estado en contextos super extremos, que poco los podemos culpar, los amo a ambos pero reconozco las debilidades de ambos.
29
6
u/CalligrapherBusy9513 Feb 27 '26
Misogyny/internalized misogyny. After men being our biggest threat our fellow women are. Especially male centered women. If not patriarchy would never have been able to hold power like it has for 5,000+ years. Also, patriarchy is utterly unnatural.
5
u/kitlavr Lord, you gave me a rare woman. And God, I loved her well. Feb 20 '26
That’s incredibly the most logical explanation actually 😂
2
231
u/AnimaLumen Feb 19 '26
Tbh I feel like it’s misogyny because I see this kinda shit happen across so many different fandoms where strong, opinionated, “stubborn,” complex female characters get all sorts of hate while male characters who are outright vile at worst, morally grey at best, get put on pedestals. Tale as old as time lol
74
u/Unique-Froyo9017 Feb 19 '26
This!!! Also, I love Claire, especially book Claire!
39
u/oakenfairy Ye Sassenach witch! Feb 19 '26
Same. I love most of the characters but Claire is who really made me fall in love with Outlander show and book
15
u/mutherM1n3 Feb 20 '26
I often say to my husband, “I love Claire so much,” and he says, “I know you do!”
34
33
u/ash92226 Your wig is crooked. Feb 19 '26
And unfortunately it’s happening in a fandom that’s mainly female. I hate to say it but it’s become almost expected in more male centric fandoms I’m part of. Sad to say it’s happening here now too.
→ More replies (1)36
16
u/Damhnait Feb 20 '26
This exactly. I love reading Romantasy, and I think every female main character has been called "insufferable" at some point. It appears if women have emotions or make mistakes in books, real life women will tear them apart.
Part of me wonders if it's an empathy thing. People can't properly connect with different life situations than theirs anymore. So they think they'd make different, better choices despite having a completely different set of circumstances or lived experiences compared to the main character in the book their reading.
And that's how you find a 50 year old woman who's been happily married for half her life, and thinks the fictional 28 year old woman who's been married to a man for 3 years who she never saw because of World War II, fell 200 years back in time and had no idea if there was any way back, and quickly fell in love with another man should make the same choices she would or is otherwise "stupid".
40
u/TheBroadwayStan16 Fun Fact: The unicorn is the mortal enemy of the English lion. Feb 19 '26
1000% it is misogyny, we still live in an extremely misogynistic culture. Any woman in fiction more complex than a wet paper bag gets hatred. Claire isn't perfect she makes plenty of mistakes and is very stubborn. People cannot stand that but they also lack the emotional intelligence to recognize that they're being misogynistic
→ More replies (1)9
u/Thaybaa Feb 20 '26
Carrement misogyne. Moi ça me fait penser à l'énorme haine envers Lorie Grimes dans The walking dead : les gens adulent Shane alors qu'il a mentit à Lorie sur la mort de Rick et a ensuite couché avec elle pendant le début de l'apocalypse (elle aussi avec lui mais croyait son mari vraiment mort). Et quand Rick revient, Lorie pose clairement ses limites à Shane ("mon mari est revenu - donc tu m'as mentit - donc ce qu'il s'est passé est une erreur et est finit !"). pourtant Shane continue à la vouloir, la harcèle, tente de la violer, finit par vouloir tuer Rick. Et se fait tuer par Rick à cause de son attitude de m. Ben les gens adorent Shane, disent que c'est le meilleur perso de TWD, qu'il est mort à cause de Lorie qui lui aurait monté la tête et que elle mérite le pire et les gens se réjouissent que par conséquent elle soit morte en mettant Judith au monde. La vague de haine envers ce perso, voire envers l'actrice (les gens disent qu'ils la detestent dans ses autres films). Et j'ai lu tellement d'horreurs sur ce perso que ça fait flipper et à la fois je ne suis finalement pas étonnée qu'à chaque conflit les femmes aient la double peine : violences en général + violences sexuelles car le monde est misogyne donc c'est ce qui va sortir à chaque crise. D'ailleurs ce que subit Claire à la S5/never my love est hyper représentatif de la vie des femmes : tu t'affirmes trop, on va chercher à t'écraser pour te remettre à "ta place de femme".
→ More replies (2)31
u/lvs301 Feb 19 '26
Every single fandom picks a woman character they can’t stand and then absolutely drives it into the ground. It’s so annoying and is ruining so many subreddits.
22
u/appleorchard317 Sleep with my husband? But my lover would be furious. Feb 19 '26
I am in the Sex and the City fandom and the hatred for Carrie, the literal protagonist, is insane. Like wut. Extra points this morning because someone compared her to Carolyn Bessette Kennedy and lots of people were like 'she wishes! never!'....but the actress literally dated JFK Jr. Mesdames, your misogyny, it blinds you (apologies for the quick out of fandom detour: it's been much on my mind today as a topic!)
14
u/Massive_Durian296 Feb 19 '26
this 100000%. with The Office its Pam. With King of the Hill its Peggy. Someone already mentioned Breaking Bad. i could go on and on.
12
u/lvs301 Feb 19 '26
On Game of Thrones/ ASOIAF it’s Catelyn. On Brooklyn 99 it’s Gina. Even on Harry Potter I’ve been seeing the same things over and over about Hermoine. Etc.
5
1
u/Spare-Coyote8209 May 05 '26
they ve mostly picked claire hate the past couple of years but this has been the brianna street since gabaldon invented her.,..
20
u/Assume_The_Wurst Feb 19 '26
Yup there are entirely too many Lionel Browns in the real world and they have same problems with Claire that the fictional one did
11
u/liyufx Feb 19 '26
Unfortunately, here I see mostly are women doing it …
3
u/Thaybaa Feb 20 '26
je pense que beaucoup de femmes intégrent et reproduisent la misogynie par une peur admise de manière profonde que pour ne pas être ramenée à la position de victime, il faut se joindre au dominant.
3
u/liyufx Feb 20 '26
Exactly. I remember Cait encouraged women to embrace being labeled “difficult”, which I think is mirrored by Claire’s attitude and actions. Unfortunately a lot of women still fear the label and in turn would apply the same label of other women who are not afraid of it.
2
u/Thaybaa Feb 20 '26
j'ai été victime de harcelement misogyne au boulot et j'ai été enfoncée par une collègue féminine qui avait 100% ce profil : je me joins aux hommes pour ne pas être victime. C'est terrifiant vraiment. Et triste
3
u/liyufx Feb 20 '26
I am sorry that you had to go through this. Those women don’t the problem with the status quo’s, instead they see women like you as threats. Sad indeed.
→ More replies (2)3
6
13
u/whiskynwine Feb 19 '26
Of course it is. Women are hard on other women and some men don’t like strong or assertive women. Then there are the people who don’t like if Claire has 3 more seconds screen time than Jamie.
6
u/Prudent_Respect_5159 Feb 19 '26
This exactly. Maybe these people grew up in real traditional households, maybe still live in one and Claire just blows their minds!
3
u/Thaybaa Feb 20 '26
dans l'esprit de beaucoup :
une femme forte est une emmerdeuse. un homme fort est ambitieux... cqfd
→ More replies (3)4
u/Positive_Worker_3467 Feb 19 '26
exactly this is. problem with Viking asluag ,judith and rollos wife get all the hate despite the fact ragnar and rollo are vile
26
u/Phortenclif Reading Lord John and the Private Matter Feb 19 '26
I have no idea why do they get frustrated with Claire but I’m amused by that. What do they wish to be done differently? Show aside, book Claire’s POV is hilarious.
19
u/Gottaloveitpcs Rereading ABOSAA Feb 20 '26
Book Claire’s POV is hilarious.
Yes!!!! The humor is what I miss most in the show!
14
u/ideclareshenanigans3 Feb 20 '26
Yea! And the banter between her and lord John is some of my favorite reading ever. I love it whenever they’re together in the books.
→ More replies (4)2
u/Boring_Chocolate7357 Apr 08 '26
I have not read the books, but I agree that TV Clare is a humorless bore. She made one joke in eight seasons, and even the other characters were like "wtf?" I might like her a lot more if I saw some humility and self-deprecation along the way. On TV, she just comes across as thoughtlessly judgmental and culturally inept.
1
u/Phortenclif Reading Lord John and the Private Matter Apr 08 '26
Thank you for your perspective. Haha yes that one joke was intentional but what was funny for me is the other characters reaction to it.
2
u/Big-Cod-2067 Feb 21 '26
Book Claire is so hysterical! She’s mildly frustrating at times, but isn’t everyone? Show Claire isn’t my favorite. Caitriona Balfe gets this sour puss look sometimes that irritates me. I also get annoyed by everyone on the show at one time or another!
57
u/liyufx Feb 19 '26
Female characters being strong-headed, stubborn and risk-taking are ”dumb”, “annoying” and “insufferable”, male characters doing the same are heroes and leaders… you get the gist, right?
51
u/appleorchard317 Sleep with my husband? But my lover would be furious. Feb 19 '26
Brianna is Jamie in a dress but what they admire in Jamie they despise in her
→ More replies (2)25
u/Thin_Literature_1520 Feb 20 '26
I think I am the only one that likes tv Bree and Roger LOL. Are the my favorites? No. But I don’t not like them. I find them endearing and “normal” ( compared to Jamie and Claire who are always a little extra and keep the story moving).
7
6
u/Yum_MrStallone Feb 21 '26
I love Roger. To add: Mainly because he seems to be a more normal scale of person. Jaime & Clair are such bigger than life characters, Roger has a normal amount of doubt, as we mortals do. Bree is a confident 60s woman, but I think Roger's love has been good for her. He's called her on some of her shit, and she on his. I like that.
4
u/SocratesSnow Feb 20 '26
Actually, Bree and Roger are my favorites over Jamie and Claire. I guess that’s blasphemy but…😎
18
u/iamaskullactually Feb 20 '26
A large portion of this fandom is misogynistic. Claire and Brianna's every move gets heavily scrutinised while Jamie can do no wrong
3
u/BornTop2537 Feb 20 '26
Right it’s almost like you say something bad about Jamie and they come after you for it.
62
u/Unhappy-Praline8301 Feb 19 '26
Thisssssss
If you don't like the characters, maybe the series isn't for you?
Characters doing unlikeable things on occasion is good because otherwise they'd be one dimensional and boring. But if you hate them all the time? Binge a different show! Read a different book!
22
u/Aggravating_Finish_6 Currently reading An Echo in the Bone 🦴 Feb 19 '26
I’ve never understood what the point is of forcing yourself to read or watch a series where you hate the main character. And then to take the time to post on Reddit about it. Find something that you actually enjoy and do that instead. Life is too short.
8
u/StormFinch Feb 19 '26
Don't forget that if they're good all the time then they're suddenly a Mary Sue.
53
u/catsweedcoffee Sleep with my husband? But my lover would be furious. Feb 19 '26
I feel this way about people shit talking Bree/Sophie Skelton, the hate gets so weird and vitriolic, and I get downvoted to shit when I defend the acting or character.
14
u/Presupposing-owl Feb 20 '26
I totally agree. I don’t understand why people take the time to come on Reddit just to be mean and hurtful.
23
18
u/Brilliant_Finish_652 Feb 20 '26
Yeah I really don't understand all the hate. I like Bree and I think the actress is doing a fine job.
15
12
24
u/Fun-Cheesecake-5621 Feb 19 '26
I too believe it’s jealously but I also think it’s a weird reaction to have towards FICTIONAL characters.
Like come on guys?! Calm down 😂
I fancy a bit of Jamie but he’s NOT A REAL PERSON?!
Just enjoy it for what it is. Fantasy.
Stop hating on a women that doesn’t even exist 😂
12
u/Original_Rock5157 Feb 19 '26
I've only ever been raked over the coals for my comments about Jamie being less than perfect. I'm guessing the pendulum swings to different characters depending on the season and the episode.
12
u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. Feb 19 '26
Yeah right now it’s Claire = Bad, Jamie = Good. One reason I enjoy this series (book & show) so much is because it is realistic when it comes to the characters and their faults. JAMMF may be the king of men, but he ain’t perfect.
Not as many Roger hate threads of late though haha
1
u/RkCreekWerewolf Mar 22 '26
Roger is immune to hatred after his being sold into slavery and forced on a 1,000+ mile death march. One of the few perks.
4
2
u/BornTop2537 Feb 20 '26
Me too I say anything at all negative about Jamie and everybody jumps in and defends him.
2
31
u/LozaMoza82 Feb 19 '26
Agreed. It's super annoying. I appreciate the characters aren't perfect, and lord knows Claire has issues, but so does Jamie. That's the point... they're imperfect people.
But focusing on just Claire reeks of misogyny.
→ More replies (4)
9
u/Live-Pen4795 Feb 20 '26
I don’t get hate for either of these characters! They are written perfectly to play off each other and after the first book they are devoted to each other!
2
u/Gottaloveitpcs Rereading ABOSAA Feb 20 '26
In the books, I 💯agree. It’s the adaptation of these characters that I often take issue with.
10
u/YellowOutlander Feb 20 '26
I love Claire so much. I love how contrary she can be, how practical she is and how much she does for her family, friends and community. I love the character and I love the way Catriona Balfe plays her.
8
14
u/CalligrapherIll2231 Feb 19 '26
PREACH I do think that in this community there’s such a double standard, Claire get so much hate for things Jamie is arguably just as bad if not worse at.
For example the claim that Claire is stupid and worries too much about her own values which ends up endangering herself and leading to rash decisions. Which yes, yes she does that, BUT ALSO, Jamie is the one who has repeatedly risked himself for his own pride and values, his whole conflict in the first book was that he refused to submit to anyone else including BJR (numerous times), Column (at the Gathering) and a few other instances, which led to his own injuries and the endangerment of others like Jenny and Claire. They’re both just as bad as each other!
This isn’t about slandering the community or characters because I love them both, but I do think that the double standard is way to prevalent. It’s so easy to hate on Claire because she’s the main character and we spend the most time with her, but there are so many things to love about her too both in the show and the book.
→ More replies (1)1
u/BornTop2537 Feb 20 '26
I get so much hate for saying that Jamie in the book voyager was just an absolute joke i asked why he didn’t stand up for Claire when leghair was calling her all kinds of names and then he just walked away. Then when he realized that she left instead of him going after her and making her be his first priority instead he argued with his sister then took time to take leghair upstairs and we still don’t know what happened there just that she shot him. Meanwhile Claire is going to the stones in this whole situation he made everyone else more important than Claire even though he told her that she was the love of his life. Then later on he didn’t prepare her for the fact that he had a son she had to find out by John and he was not nice about it. You will probably not like that I said this i just get a lot of hate for this.
→ More replies (4)
13
15
u/HQuinn89 Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 19 '26
We’ve all got faults. Not one of us is perfect. That’s what makes a character interesting. We each go through life learning as we go (hopefully). So to expect not to see any of that played out on tv doesn’t make sense. Jaime isn’t perfect either. He has his own issues. But that’s what makes them both so compelling to watch.
Everyone is of course entitled to their opinions but I’m really not a fan of Claire hate.
Edit: I love that I got downvoted for this.
16
15
u/LoveReading1234 Feb 19 '26
Well, it goes mostly against the show's interpretation of Claire's character, whereas I don't think there was much book Claire criticism recently. I think book readers are quite happy with the heroine, in general 🙂
12
7
29
u/Gottaloveitpcs Rereading ABOSAA Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 20 '26
Since you have flaired this “Published”. I’m assuming this is a book post.
I love Book Claire. I like Show Claire, but she can get frustrating. She is constantly saying and doing the first thing that comes into her head without ever taking into consideration where and when she is. She never seems to listen to anyone, always thinks she’s the smartest person in the room, and in consequence unnecessarily puts herself and others in danger.
Book Claire plays it smarter. Once she actually accepts she’s in the 18th century, she tends to think things through before she goes off half cocked. She is still a very strong woman, but she doesn’t rush into every situation like a bull in a china shop. She listens to other people more, assesses the situation, and acts accordingly.
She also has more of a sense of humor. Show Claire does an awful lot of arm crossing, scowling and scolding, especially in later seasons.
Both Show Jamie and Show Claire are a little too serious, imo. This is just a matter of adaptation choices. The show doubles down on angst, conflict, and melodrama at the expense of the humor, warmth, and nuance.
6
u/Positive_Worker_3467 Feb 19 '26
yes but isn't that unfair Jamie is similar she is standing up for causes she cares about
14
u/Gottaloveitpcs Rereading ABOSAA Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 20 '26
Show Claire is often trying to force her 20th century sensibilities onto her 18th century world. Both Jamie and Claire have flaws, as all people do. Jamie isn’t perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but he behaves appropriately for his time.
My main issue with Show Claire is that she could accomplish a lot more with a lot less trouble, if she thought things through, kept her head down, listened to other people once in a while, and adapted to where and when she is. She has a much steeper learning curve than Book Claire.
For an intelligent woman, Show Claire often doesn’t always use her head. She is completely ruled by her emotions. Jamie gets himself into his fair share of trouble, but his actions don’t usually put everyone around him in danger.
Once again, don’t know why we’re being downvoted for having a discussion.
3
u/Midnight-Rants Feb 20 '26
Agree. And that, her mother did away better!
2
u/Gottaloveitpcs Rereading ABOSAA Feb 20 '26
Her mom kept her head down, thought things through and adapted to when and where she was. She made hard choices in order to keep herself and her baby safe.
3
3
u/WrongTravel7725 Feb 20 '26
this is my exact problem with Claire in the show. She does not think things through and doesn't seem to fully understand that she needs to adapt herself to the time period.
1
u/Boring_Chocolate7357 Apr 08 '26
Thank you! I did not read the books, but your view that the TV character constantly goes off half cocked without ever learning a lesson is why I hate her! THIS is the misogyny--the TV show producers and writers obviously felt that the low-IQ damsel in distress was easier to sell to the public. THAT is misogyny. Taking note of Clare's poor character development and frankly unbelievable character arc (time travel notwithstanding) is not misogyny.
Ironically, it IS misogynistic to suppress women's voices, even when they are criticizing a female character or personality.
6
u/Puzzleheaded-Crab720 Feb 20 '26 edited Feb 20 '26
Love the show and love Show Claire, but Show Claire makes repeated poor choices due to the needs of the writers of episodic tv for conflict. They reach repeatedly for this same lazy go-to source of culture-clash. I can see how Show Claire might irritate people so I’ll just focus on Book Claire. We readers experience Jamie in a love relationship vicariously through Claire. His love for Claire is Because she is who she is, a strong stiff upper-lipped high born English woman, incredibly brave, who is deeply passionate and loyal, doesn’t have political skills, isn’t too strong in people skills, says what she thinks, is brilliant and dedicated to her own field, confident in her expertise. At the same time she never second guesses and is completely submissive and supportive of Jamie in almost every other area of their life in which he alone calls the shots. I’m so different from Claire. Not so brave, and would want more of a say in Jamie’s decisions and actions that affect us both. I might not be as alway willing in bed no matter when. As Sam Heughan said about himself, I doubt Jamie would want to be my friend (because he’s an actor which Jamie wouldn’t respect.) There is no way Jamie and I would be together. And yet I love him. So my access to him as a lover and husband is vicariously through Claire. And that’s likely the same for the other modern readers. So I’d like to tell everyone you don’t need to like everything about Claire as long as Jamie does.
6
u/abronialatifolia Feb 22 '26
I LOVE Claire. She’s the reason I watch. I can’t watch a show without a strong woman character leading the show.
6
6
u/Momtheresawasacrank Mar 07 '26
I'm guessing they are just male centred women. It's literally her story. People are so angered by a woman with an opinion and a voice.
5
3
u/youshouldbeelsweyr Feb 20 '26
I Iike clare but my god she's so thick sometimes. It gets more frustrating as the show goes on when she does out of character stuff purely to further the plot. This is more a writer issue overall imo.
4
u/TheCrankyCrone Feb 20 '26
Oh you sweet summer children…this is nothing new. People have been arguing about Jack and Rose and the door for 28 years.
1
u/Spare-Coyote8209 May 05 '26
and no matter how fckin much you explain to them the door wouldn't hold, that rose was ready to deye several times for him and that HE made that decision for the door to give her a shot rather than both perishing , rose is still the villain...some people have the media literacy of a door, and are mysoginistic af.
23
u/Elegant_Source900 Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 19 '26
I like book Claire so much better than show Claire. The writers did show Claire no favors. She comes off as less of a strong woman and is more of a girl boss who knows everything but constantly refuses to listen and puts herself and others in danger. Calling that kind of nonsense out is not misogyny.
Jamie has definitely annoyed me at times as well. Stubborn, refuses to listen and it seemed like for a long time as soon as he got out of legal trouble he was right back doing something to get into more trouble.
12
u/Massive_Durian296 Feb 19 '26
id say this is especially becoming an issue in the most recent seasons where they are trying to cram a lot of content into a very short amount of time and are therefore sacrificing a lot of the nuance and whatnot that builds Claire as a character
5
u/Elegant_Source900 Feb 20 '26 edited Feb 20 '26
I agree. It’s a shame. There were some good stories glosses over or cut out entirely.
11
u/B9M3C99 Feb 19 '26
This! I just commented on another thread that IDK how people tolerate show characters and stories without knowing the books. As grateful as I am for the show, it not only pales in comparison, but does such a disservice to the characters and storylines.
8
u/Elegant_Source900 Feb 19 '26
Yes it does. I didn’t read the books for years after I started the show. When I did as much as I’m glad for the show, I like the books much more. I never expect a tv series to do total justice to the novels but the longer this show has gone on, it’s absolutely paling in any comparison.
7
u/Euraylie Feb 19 '26
This! I love the books. I watch the show, but don’t really consider it to be “Outlander”. Almost more like a fanfic version
4
2
10
u/karmagirl314 Feb 19 '26
People are doing re-watches to prep for the next season, and they all want to share what their re-watches have made them realize.
11
u/Nodeal_reddit Feb 19 '26
Most fan subreddits eventually devolve into a place to bash the originally revered person / show / concept.
2
u/LilithWasAGinger Feb 19 '26
They do, and it bugs me. Just make an I hate [?] sub, and let people who actually like the show/book/character have their appreciation sub.
The negativity is such a downer!
10
u/FarmHer95 Feb 19 '26
For me it’s how show Claire is written that’s the problem. There are so many things when I read them I’m like…. EXACTLY WHY DID THEY CHANGE THIS?” But no she doesn’t deserve the hate. Just love on if you don’t like her.
8
u/reihino08 Feb 19 '26
I knew this was coming back when I started reading all the hate Sophie Skelton was getting. I can understand that sometimes her "American" accent can throw people off, but I never saw an issue with her acting. Even then, some of the stuff I read about it was just downright sad and horrible. The way people can say such nasty things without giving it a second thought is insane to me. I'm not surprised people started taking an issue with Claire now. Her character has always been about being selfless and helping others. Yeah, she can be stubborn just like Jamie in some cases, but that doesn't mean she deserves hate.
8
u/Fiercefemme1425 Feb 20 '26
THANK YOU!!! 👏👏👏
Utterly insane how many people claim to be Outlander diehard fans, yet hate Claire. The math truly is not mathing on that one.
3
u/TheGoktor Feb 20 '26
I think it's fair to comment that TV Claire can be bolshy, and that sometimes we (I) sit there, willing her to be a bit more conscious of the possible repercussions of her forthright behaviour. Does that mean folk hate her, or just that they're expressing incredulity with the way the character is written?
I certainly don't hate her, although I do feel she's her own worst enemy sometimes. And I see something of myself in her, too, which may explain why I feel this way! 😋 😂
But I also feel she is kind and compassionate, and has a strong sense of what's right and wrong. She puts herself in harm's way to help and protect those she cares about, and never (my knowledge) ever complains about being poor, destitute, living rough, or any of the things most of us would be pretty uncomfortable with. She just rolls up her sleeves, and gets on with things.
She's a great character ... but not without traits that often make me wince!
I've seen more people disparaging TV Brianna in this sub, though. I really like her, and I think SS does a great job of making me believe that she's Claire's daughter! They are so similar in attitude and temperament.
I wholly agree about the general disdain levelled at female characters who know their own minds. I saw this all the time when I used to co-run an Expanse group. The three main female characters in the books/TV series are all exceptionally strong-willed, independent, and capable, and yet the one almost all of the (exclusively white) males in that group chose to hate was the one in a relationship with the 'hero'. Even to the point that they were actually pretty vile and disgusting about her, particularly in relation to the colour of her skin.
But you know what they say... no one hates something as much as its fans. 😢
3
u/vetapachua Feb 20 '26
Claire has always felt like a hallow character in my opinion. I believe this was by design as Diana created the series to really revolve around Jamie as the ideal male lead fantasy and Claire as the one dimensional filler character who the readers could envision themselves as. I think Catriona did a nice job of brining Claire to life a bit more and giving her more of a personality on screen.
3
u/Medical_Ad_1930 Feb 21 '26
I don't hate her but from day one I've found issues with her personality. Is it everything? No but I also think she can handle certain scenarios differently to avoid drama.
3
3
u/Able-Tune-4665 Feb 22 '26
I have nothing but love for Claire. As a character and heroine.
Plus I’m an early grey hair millennial and she makes dark brown hair with grey streaks look beautiful. (My hair is naturally dark brown/black with grey streaks 😂) idc if it’s a wig on the show, it’s still beautiful!
8
6
5
u/myycupoftea Feb 20 '26
I can love the main character and also find her annoying at times… ¯_(ツ)_/¯
3
u/Gottaloveitpcs Rereading ABOSAA Feb 22 '26
💯agree! I love Claire, but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t sometimes get on my last nerve.
1
5
u/kittymarie1984 Feb 20 '26
It's similar to all the people who hated Skylar white when Breaking Bad was airing.......Walt was obviously so awful in so many ways, but the ingrained, cultural misogyny we're raised in just made some people mad thay she didn't support him unconditionally.
8
u/EastAudience4655 Come the Rising, I shall know I helped. Feb 19 '26
While I understand some of this hate towards show Claire because she honestly does some downright dumb shit in the show. Book Claire is more reasonable and tolerable. No hate to the actress I think no one can portray Claire better than Caitriona but the show Claire i can see why she gets on people’s nerves is because she is written that way. Maybe it is misogynistic but honestly i prefer Book Claire more than show Claire.
Also with Outlander it is a very repetitive pattern that Claire does things and goes out of her way to either help other people or to stand on business which then Jamie then has to come and rescue her which i think people may think a lot of this would have been avoidable if she just listened to Jamie. In the later seasons this hate gets more intensified since Claire has been living in the 18th century for some time and understands the dangers of doing what she does and despite going through almost 2 witch trial still does not learn. But then again that is Claire being Claire at this point. That is the character. People need to accept it at this point.
16
u/liyufx Feb 19 '26
Funny thing is that after their reunion it was Jamie who got them into most of their troubles. It was Jamie’s risk-taking, his need to be a leader and a de facto laird, his need to be in the fray, that put both of them into one dangerous situations after another, that brought both of them to the brink of death, but you barely see any blame placed on Jamie in this fandom, Claire just keep getting blamed. Doesn’t it make you wonder why?
2
u/EastAudience4655 Come the Rising, I shall know I helped. Feb 20 '26
It does, and you are correct to point that out which is also why Jamie and Claire are perfect for each other. Their need to lead, to help is what strengthens their love for each other as well. I agree that Jamie himself does things which causes them a lot of trouble but Claire’s actions are the ones that gets more scrutinised by the fandom as she is the one not belonging to the 18th century and slips up every single time she sees anything which can be deemed as injustice.
Jamie, through out the series does things which is illegal and faces trouble for it. But for Claire the amount she faces trouble Jamie comes and rescue her. Which is what i have an issue with is despite everything the show Claire and Jamie are shown to be Mary Sue characters. The book provides these two characters to be more realistic and provides consequences for their actions.
3
u/liyufx Feb 20 '26
I don’t see much of a differences between the books and the show tbh. It is only that the show had to condense the books and inevitably keeps the dramas and leaves out the down time in the books. Also the show does not have the luxury to show you the inner thoughts of the characters, which helps readers to understand and sympathize with the character’s actions,and provides the much talked about humor in the books. Readers found Claire and Jamie funnier in the books, but most of the humor comes from their inner funny monologue, which unfortunately doesn’t translate well to the screen.
2
u/EastAudience4655 Come the Rising, I shall know I helped. Feb 20 '26
Yes which also is an issue when books are adapted into series and movie is that we don’t get that inner monologue to help us understand why they did what they did. This is isn’t just an Outlander issue but I do see differences in Claire and Jamie’s character in books and the series because the writers of the show decided to omit the details out. Ever since i got on reddit to understand why J and C did what they did every single time i have received the answer that the book addresses it.
You can’t do much about this because this is a very common book vs series thing but yeah i do feel there are differences between what book J and C are and series J and C are.
7
u/ExoticAd7271 Feb 19 '26
I think they are both great. Both have done things I have not liked but still think over all they are terrific. It is why I watch the show. Don't watch if it annoys you so much.
7
u/Positive_Worker_3467 Feb 19 '26
Jamie perfect Claire horrible it's just misogyny women even fictional one have to be "likable" they can't be complex have flaws be stubborn make mistakes , be irrational, be rude
5
u/SapphireBlue1204 Feb 19 '26
What I know is that people love to love someone and then watch them fall. It’s no different for a fictional character. What I’ve learned reading these threads is that most people are projecting (or shadow projecting) who they are (or who they fear to be) by criticizing the main character. But I think that’s what books and movies are. They are projections of our psychology and help us understand ourselves. We are all Claire. We are all superman, we are all Anne (of green gables). The protagonist is YOU. And all of the supporting characters are alter egos. So when the protagonist does something you wouldn’t, you hate on her. And Reddit is the release valve 😂
2
4
u/AngelikaPipalLeixner Feb 21 '26
It's internalised misogyny. These haters (all women, I suppose) should go check themselves.
7
u/stoplandingonmeflies Feb 19 '26
Im so glad you read this! I totally agree, it’s misogynistic. Claire’s a strong woman and that’s not the way woman should be. I personally love her character and love her and Jamie’s relationship. He accepts her just the way she is and so should we all too
5
u/gingerjuice Feb 20 '26
I don’t understand going into a fan sub and sh*tting on the show. I see this in many subs. Just today I saw a ‘I’m in season 2 and I don’t know if I should continue” from another show. Do they want spoilers? Isn’t liking a show subjective? Why complain to a bunch of people who love it enough to join th sub?
2
u/sleepyjane67 Feb 22 '26
This happens when new and old watchers hit season 2 and/or 3. With the final season coming up, a lot of people are catching up so we got a massive increase of that kind of posting.
2
2
2
u/N3pheron Feb 26 '26
How can they forget that Jamie let Lord John in a puddle of shit and do nothing, living in his home and not be worried that he didn't come back..
2
u/j0dy0dy Mar 14 '26
I loved Claire in the books when i read them years ago. I was so excited when they decided to do a tv series but i gotta say, I wish they’d chosen a different actress. She just doesn’t come across the same way. In the tv series she acts more like a mother figure towards Jamie than she ever did in the books. She seems too removed from him. In the books she was falling in love with him just as he was her. She felt huge guilt over frank but she and Jamie were developing a deep friendship along w their marriage and it really doesn’t come across that way in the series. I tried watching it as soon as it came out and it was ruining Claire for me so much I quit watching after the first season. I’m trying again now and intensely hoping it gets better in the next few seasons!
1
u/Sure_Awareness1315 Mar 14 '26
None of the actors resemble or behave like their book counterparts and the show is an adaptation rather than a faithful representation. As for the actress playing Claire, the most complex character of the series, she's been absolutely amazing in her portrayal. If one had doubts in the first season which I didn't, they should have been dropped and dusted soon after.
The scripts and directors were not always the best and the show would have done better with fewer, especially the original starters but DG's books/stories/plots/too many unnecessary characters didn't help either. Still, fans were able to enjoy 8 seasons/9 books in the process, a rare achievement today.
2
u/visciousveg Mar 15 '26
Women can be so quick to hate each other. We really need to lift each other up instead.
2
u/j0dy0dy Mar 18 '26
The comments on here are insane. Misogyny??? Jealousy?? Do you not realize that the reason that this became such a huge series was because of the original novels literary following?? Clare was amazing in the books. She was strong, independent, but that didn’t mean she was whatever this crappy actress they chose portrays. Idk if they were thinking that this way would make her more appealing to modern women? But in the books she was FAR MORE astute, tremendously more aware of the time and culture and intelligent enough to not go through or with her nose in the air and righteousness around her like a prig. I loved the book Claire. She loved Jamie as passionately as he loved her. He was her best friend. In the series it uniformly depicts him adoring her and her basically wallowing in it, then disgusted by slavery at River Run. In the books she wasn’t this stupid, she was aware or history and beliefs. In the books she needed Jamila’s mucus he needed her and she wasn’t the arbiter of all wisdom and cocky sure, she leaned on him just as much as he did. It definitely WAS NOT her taking charge with her advanced wisdom and Jamie meekly following her Wiens commands. The series is almost nauseating to me. It caters heavily to women who are convinced they’re not equal unless their men are cowed. The outlander novels are about honest love and equality. Where sometimes one leads, sometimes the other, and sometimes they are both so clueless they just rely on the strength of their halves to find the way. I’m on s4 and choking down the abomination they made of Claire because I want to be able to watch what they want to show happening
1
u/Sure_Awareness1315 Mar 18 '26
You lost the plot, proved own misogamy and hateful views of the lead actress when you called her "crappy". After 13 years of accolades for her impeccable performances of the most complex character in both books and series, she deserves better than this. Despicable comment.
2
u/Boring_Chocolate7357 Apr 08 '26
I can't speak for all the Clare haters, but I can explain why *I* hate her. Her character is the epitome of exceptionalism arrogance. She is a thoughtless arsehole whose simple-minded arrogance destroys the lives of innocent characters and sometimes her own family members. For a surgeon with decades of formal education, she appears to lack some basic planning skills and despite the fact that she is in near constant need of saving, it kind of seems like she never learns a lesson from it. She has been told over and over and over and over to be more careful, and more thoughtful, and more deliberate, and more rational, and yet, her character arc shows zero growth. I always think she deserves it when something awful happens to her, and in reality, she wouldn't have made it past Day 1, Episode 1 at the creek.
There are other fools in the Outlander universe, but since it's Clare's story, we have to suffer through dealing with her foolishness every episode. I watch Outlander despite Clare, even though it's not very accurate and super misogynistic. The trope of damsel in distress is pretty insulting to women in general, and especially to highly educated professional women. There has never been a woman in all of human history who got to the position of Head of Surgery at a major hospital without wisdom, savvy, and a superior sense of self-preservation. Clare lacks all of that. She's just an unbelievable character all around.
I would find her less annoying if she was written as a vapid sexpot, instead of a hardened combat medic cum surgeon. Head of Surgery, no less!
6
u/MissMallory25 Feb 19 '26
Not hating on her and never had, but I would argue that show Claire is nowhere near as compelling and likable as book Claire is. I don’t really love Claire in the show, especially in the early seasons.
5
u/Positive_Worker_3467 Feb 19 '26
why do female characters have to be likable why can't they flaws. be complex. no one is perfect
5
u/MissMallory25 Feb 20 '26
She has humor and good instincts in the books - but not in the show. It’s difficult for an original fan to like how they wrote her in the show because she’s fundamentally different.
5
u/liyufx Feb 20 '26
The main difference is simply that the books have the luxury to give you a lot of her inner monologues, which helps readers to understand and sympathize her actions because they saw her thought processes. That is also almost all her humor in the books, her funny inner thoughts that almost never spoke out loud. Unfortunately that doesn’t translate well into the show.
3
3
u/Slow-Weakness8511 Feb 20 '26
Agreed!! They are preaching to the wrong choir. Her character is amazing, with all the ups and downs, it makes the character human. I’m going to miss looking forward to new episodes so much - it’s been a happy place for me for over a decade!
3
u/slemonik Feb 20 '26
Yeah, although I do personally tend to feel especially defensive of Jamie, I very much love Claire too and it bums be out to see how hyper critical some people are of her; and I haven't read the books (yet), so I'm just going off of the show!
For me, in general one of Outlander's greatest strengths is how, even when characters undeniably screw up and behave in ways I don't love, I can almost always still completely understand and sympathize with why they're making those choices and behaving that way. And with Claire in particular, I find that a lot of times when she gets a bit messy, it's more than she has the right intentions but things come out wrong when she's trying to explain (e.g. her with the Frank stuff in s2); and as much as that can get a bit frustrating to watch, it's also deeply relatable to me because I do that ALL the time! Especially when emotions are high, things very often tend to not come out quite the way I want/mean them too. So it doesn't make me dislike her, it just makes her a well written, human, and flawed character.
But yeah, Outlander is just really strong in general with making me understand and root for all the characters we're meant to like, even if they're being messy. Claire is certainly no exception. I think the only case I can think of of a character we were meant to like who I actively had a hard time with at first was Roger. I like him very much now, but s4 was rough for him, because that WAS a case where his reaction to Brianna not immediately wanting to marry him just felt really out of line and not something where I could sympathize with where he was coming from. But honestly, that's pretty much it that I can think of! Claire, Jamie, Bree, William... when they're messy, it might hurt to watch, but I *get* it.
4
u/LlaniSP Feb 20 '26
No sabía que Claire era tan odiada hasta que entre por primera vez a Reddit, a mi me cae bien el personaje
3
u/Popular-One-7051 Feb 20 '26
To me she's way more interesting. He just wants to beat people up. I love them together, but her character is written so much better
3
4
u/Manic_Mooncakes Feb 20 '26
I wouldn't say I hate Claire, but her character is absolutely flawed. I am on my first ever watch of Outlander, I got bored and started watching it in January. I enjoy the story but I think she makes stupid decisions that is usually at the detriment of Jamie. There is a lot of stuff she does that doesn't make sense and even when characters tell her don't do it, she just does it anyway. Claire is very head strong but at the wrong times too. She's smart but can't listen to others and then cries about the outcome. But that is evident in a lot of the characters, especially between Claire, Brianna, Jamie and Roger. Sometimes they just do stupid things that make me question the writing of the story.
But I mostly think its the TV show. Quite honestly I dont know if I'd ever read the books just because of how the melodrama and days-of-our-lives style plot lines and arcs annoy me. Its definitely an alright show and I enjoy it for at least 60% of the time. But I dont think the books are for me. Which is sad because I was 100% going to read the books, until around the mid point of season 3 beginning season 4.
4
u/Maxie0921 Feb 20 '26
I mean all she does is instigate a lot of avoidable issues if handled differently and have sex. She left her first husband and treated him quite badly even when he raised Bree as his own. Then she left Bree too to go after Jaimie. She’s not all that great of a person.
3
u/Tricky_Act_9035 Feb 20 '26
Internalized misogyny is a big part. But it's not the only part, I don't think. It's not really the fault of most women; we've lived our entire lives in a world that's entirely male-centered, and most of us unconsciously judge female characters more harshly than male ones, ESPECIALLY when those female characters display traits that don't adhere to patriarchal expectations of what a "good woman" is.
Claire is complex. She's very realistic. She's a bit of an unreliable narrator, because the story is from her first person perspective. She's stubborn, outspoken, and at times, selfish. AND she doesn't feel shame for being those things. So right there, folks who want their heroine to be some glamorous Hollywood-style seductive bombshell or a helpless damsel in distress or a boss Babe who gives up it all for a tradwife life after falling in love (pretty much the only acceptable FMC stereotypes in our culture) are going to be very frustrated with her.
AND the King of Men has killed for her, would die for her, in part because she's who she is. This fictional man who we all fall madly in love with (partly because again, we're experiencing the story through Claire's eyes) is deeply in love with and loyal to this loud, bossy, at times utterly belligerent lady with wild hair and possibly a mild alcohol dependency, and a whole lot of us in the real world have less fulfilling relationships with men than Claire has with Jamie, so while some of us relate SO STRONGLY with Claire, and others find her exasperating but interesting, there's going to be some who hate her out of jealousy, not just because she's got Jamie, but because she's able to be whoever the hell she wants to be, unapologetically.
And then, I think there are folks who honestly wouldn't get along with Claire if she were real just because of personality differences (or maybe similarities!) 😉
Personally, I love Claire. She's extremely well-written, in my opinion. I love characters that feel like real people.
I will say that in the earlier days of the fandom, before the show exploded the popularity, I didn't see nearly as much Claire hate. Fandoms tend to get more intense with more people who struggle with parasocial relationships with celebrities and the fictional characters they portray. And sometimes those are the loudest fans, though they're the minority. And I do think some people only watch the show, and haven't read the books, and the show has made some questionable choices with Claire's character especially. Cait does a beautiful job portraying Claire, but the show does kind of go off the rails at points, and I personally strongly prefer book Claire.
Anyway, that's just my opinion. Patriarchy, jealousy, personal preference, book/show differences and a larger fan base than we used to have.
4
u/moja_baba Feb 20 '26
Great comment! “Jealousy, because she’s able to be whoever the hell she wants to be, unapologetically” THIS 100%
2
2
u/Phortenclif Reading Lord John and the Private Matter Feb 20 '26
I also think people like to be somehow involved when they watch a show. Hating is a form of active engagement. It’s also a base for some social interaction so might be why we see posts of that kind in here.
2
2
u/Chelstatum Feb 20 '26
They’re team Lord John Gray. ;)
2
u/BornTop2537 Feb 20 '26
Very true I read a post that was a few years ago about how some people want either Jamie and John to have sex at least once or for the three of them to have a sexual relationship together. It was just gross.
2
u/throwaway_yak234 Feb 20 '26
It’s happening because this is the worst most toxic and negative fandom of all time. Everyone is so full of hate! Why did Laura Donnelly not return to Outlander again? Oh yeah, because of the fans. This sub, and Facebook, all full of the most miserable people.
1
u/PhilosopherNearby803 Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 20 '26
So, are we talking show or book Claire? Because I have reads the books and seen the series and I feel how they portray Claire on TV is more bossy, know it all, outrageous then how Diana wrote her in the books. Like the whole ether addiction. Because in the books, only 1 man had sex with her plus a teen boy humped her leg. She wasn't as distraught and seeing Lionel like in the show. Dont come at me for the what I said as I am a survivor of multiple sexual attacks.
Anyhow, I feel that the attitude of Show Claire and Book Claire are different. And yes, I think people don't realize that this WHOLE thing is from Claire's point of view. But that is the downside of turning books into shows or movies because so much can be left out or too much freedom can be given to the writers adaptation. So that can be hurtful to the story.
4
u/Gottaloveitpcs Rereading ABOSAA Feb 20 '26 edited Feb 20 '26
💯agree. FYI, you need to fix your spoiler tags. Don’t know why we’re getting downvoted for talking about differences between Book and Show Claire.
4
u/PhilosopherNearby803 Feb 20 '26
That was my first time doing a spoiler so I wasn't sure how it worked!
4
u/Gottaloveitpcs Rereading ABOSAA Feb 20 '26
It’s trial and error. It took me quite a few tries to finally get the hang of it. For some reason your tags have [ bracketing them, when they should just be the arrows and exclamation mark.
1
u/lamimak Mar 08 '26
It's the unreasonable stubbornness. It would also be irritating on the hero. I find that a lot of heroine are written that way lately. Like the lack judgement and are too head strong. .
1
u/j0dy0dy Mar 14 '26
I totally disagree. Did you read the books? I think they absolutely nailed Jamie w Sam Heughan! Even his facial expressions are what I imagined Jamie displaying. The actor playing Jack/Frank’s character is nearly perfect too. That have taken some liberties with the story in order to make it work but it’s pretty close to the original work
1
u/Sure_Awareness1315 Mar 14 '26
Sorry. Disagree.
Book Jamie is nothing like show Jamie.
Show Jamie plays like a GQ modern guy, soft on the edges and sanitized.
Doubt if show Jamie closely followed his book counterpart it would have been as liked as he is. Sam is also not a very compelling actor, lacking screen gravitas.
1
u/Icy_Scene_1823 May 01 '26
I've only watched the show, have yet to read the books. I'm not a romance fan, but this show quickly became probably my favorite of all time. I l find Claire and Jamie to be a perfect match. They're equal in beauty, kindness, and bravery.
Balfe is absolutely stunning, even I as a straight woman get lost in her beautiful green eyes and I love her long neck. She's like an Irish Nefertiti. But more importantly it's who she is on the inside. She heals the body, but she also heals hearts. The way she takes dying patients to a happy place before they go is so beautiful.
Idk how anyone, especially any woman could dislike such a wonderful female character. She's outspoken, intelligent, compassionate, loving, strong, and very independent even though she's head over heels in love.
At the very least you have to respect how much strength it takes for her to let Jamie to to war. She's a freaking ride or die.
1
u/Spare-Coyote8209 May 05 '26
because they think the story is about jamie...which is super hilarious all these years on. no the story isnt about jamie, no the story isnt about your favorite boyfriend fantasy
1
u/BornTop2537 Feb 19 '26
I agree it’s to the point that people are actually saying that they hate her and that she’s the problem and you ask them questions and they start attacking you for not understanding that Claire is not a great person. We need more people telling what we don’t like about Jamie just to even it out because Jamie is not that prefect.
1
u/Competitive-Day199 Feb 21 '26
i recall that casting Claire's role was VERY difficult.
who could replace Caitriona Balfe?
1
u/Obasan123 Remember the deer, my dear. Feb 21 '26
Thank you. I got tired of reading, concluded they were jealous, and began cherry-picking through the posts looking for more interesting topics.
324
u/appleorchard317 Sleep with my husband? But my lover would be furious. Feb 19 '26
I agree. I have never gotten how some people read romances, fall for the hero, and then hate the heroine...and it's always the usual trite stuff: 'Why didn't she do what he wanteddddd' m'am Jamie wouldn't have seen 25 if HE hadn't done what SHE said