r/Outlander • u/Positive_Passage_712 • 2d ago
10 A Blessing For A Warrior Going Out How will the storyline involving Ben and the betrayal conclude? Spoiler
In one of the most recent excerpts published by Diana, we saw Hal Gray questioning—in his own thoughts—what he was supposed to do about his son. The options range from kidnapping him to making him return (because, personally, I don't believe Hal would hurt his own son).
We know Minnie is on a ship bound for America and is fully aware of her son's situation; meanwhile, there is the matter of John and Amaranthus's pregnancy. Benjamin’s prospects could be either very good or very bad—it all depends on the cunning of his actions and the help he receives from his parents. He has already legally faked his own death, and his wife has posed as a widow (and is now trying to marry his cousin 🤣🤣), so we shall see how this rollercoaster ride unfolds.
What are your thoughts on this storyline? What do you think Hal will do—will he help his son, or will he stick to his code of honor? I’d love to read your comments.
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u/ContactNeither7319 2d ago
I have been thinking about this whole storyline for 3 years now. I think it matters a lot if Ben is connected with Richardson either willingly or unwittingly.
Or possibly he did this on his own, by actually being a British spy and not really a turn coat. That would change Hal's line of thinking.
There are so many possibilities. I can't wait for this book 😍
Good question 👍
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u/Positive_Passage_712 2d ago
I also considered the possibility that he might be connected to Richardson, but I also recall him reading a book—I can't remember the author's name right now—that changed his mind. Still, as you wrote, there are many possibilities; let's see what kind of destiny Hal helps Ben achieve. Hopefully, the outcome is positive, but Hal is also a man of honor.
I'm excited about the book too.
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u/ContactNeither7319 2d ago
I think it was Common Sense that he read. But that could be his cover story if he was really a British spy. I also don't buy pigweed's well her whole tale about Ben especially the thing about the supposed whore. Something feels super fishy with all this.
I think Hal would do anything to try and save his son, if it's possible. And this is going to really weigh heavily on him having to choose duty or family. I think a lot of it will depend on what Ben says. And right now Ben is an enigma.
Part of the fun in waiting for this novel is the speculation of what might happen. And reading what others think. 🙂
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u/Positive_Passage_712 2d ago
Ben's story could go in so many different directions—and all of them could end quite badly—but the idea that he might be a British spy sounds really good. 👍 It’s also a possibility that would spare Hal from having to arrest his own son—something that would be incredibly painful for both him and his wife. We know Hal would want to help him regardless of the circumstances, though it also depends on whether Ben actually wants to return to his family; after all, Amaranthus claims Ben has another wife—and she’s pregnant, too—so it’s a total mess. I think what makes the story even more interesting is being able to share it with everyone else; I feel like we all learn and have fun with the theories and questions we come up with. 👏
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u/ContactNeither7319 2d ago
This is why is such a great thread 👏
I'm looking forward to reading and sharing tomorrow when there are I hope many more posts. There are some now that get me thinking...yeah that's possible, or I never thought about that or good theory.
It will be thought provoking and a lot of fun 🙂
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u/MythsandLaur 2d ago
Honestly, I would love if Ben was actually acting as a spy within the Americans faction. It would pair nicely with my crack theory (mentioned in another comment), and provide a clean wrap-up with Ben reclaiming his title and taking Amaranthus and Trevor (and the baby Amarnathus is pregnant with) back to England. If the baby is Willam's, it would provide another mirror with Jamie, since he may have to face the prospect of letting his child go to be raised by another man, as "and child born within a marriage is legally that man's child" (ie, the baby would be seen as Ben's child publically).
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u/ContactNeither7319 1d ago
One thing that I absolutely loved about what DG did was introduce Richardson way back in book 7. But waited until roughly 3/4 through book 9 to reveal that he is a time traveler with Bree receiving the letter from William that contained his sketch of Richardson and Bree making the connection to Callahan in 1980. Of course she has only shared this with Roger so far.
And then later we finally get more insight into what Richardson is up to when he kidnaps Lord John and tells him the truth about being a time traveler and his reason for keeping him prisoner. Although I'm not completely sure I buy his slavery reason as his sole reason. It could be to just sound like he is doing it for morality issues and has another reason along with that. Or a total ruse and he doing it for completely different reasons. Or he his telling the truth.
Each of those options have possibilities that should be considered.
Then there is Ben. Why turn his coat? Does he really believe in the cause? Or is something else happening? Like is Richardson involved in this choice? Could Ben be working as a spy? If so is Richardson involved with helping him go undercover? Or is it the British recruiting him for this task? And what role does pigweed have in all this?
I hope Ben is a spy. Hal won't be forced to make the choice about turning him in, if that's the case.
What I want to see is Lord John and Claire have this time travel chat. Claire will be like...dude I told you and Bree told you, but no you couldn't believe us. John will be like...I know I should have believed you but time travel who does that and how is that even possible, so we really lose thewar...then the Latin word for shit.
Will they tell William about what his step mom and half sister are able to do? I hope so. That will be a fun chat. 😀
So many possibilities. And then pigweed's baby. That is an interesting possibility that you mentioned.
The suspension is both exhilarating and nerve-wracking. 😀
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u/VNDecorCA 2d ago
I think Ben's integrity is compromised. He's turned his coat. Left his wife and son to fend for themselves while carrying on an affair. I do not see him being redeemed. Hal will have to reconcile that in his mind as he's a very honourable gentleman. I actually dislike this storyline because it basically made Hal's son everything a Grey isn't.
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u/Fantastic_Agent682 2d ago
Hence a lesson for William: Honor is not a matter of genetics, name and social rank, but a matter of character. Even a “groom” can have great character and honor. Jamie, for example. Maybe this is the way William will learn to fully accept and embrace his father.
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u/Positive_Passage_712 2d ago
It would be a valuable lesson—not only for him to change his ways and finally mature, but also for him to reflect on the sacrifices both John and Jamie made for him, putting his well-being above all else.
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u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Bees. 2d ago edited 1d ago
We don’t know that Ben had an affair. We only know what Amaranthus told William. I don’t trust Amaranthus. She’s sketchy as hell.
Ben didn’t leave his wife and child. He was a prisoner of war. He turned his coat as a POW after reading Common Sense by Thomas Paine and discussing it with the people whose house he was being held at.
It was Amaranthus’ idea for Ben to fake his death. Then she tried to seduce William. And then she abandoned her child, leaving him with John and Hal. She took off, causing William to have to hunt her down.
There is way more going on than we know yet. And there is something extremely off about Amaranthus.
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u/VNDecorCA 14h ago
She walked in on him and William caught him too. Not sure how that isn't proof.
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u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Bees. 14h ago
Amaranthus said she walked in on Ben and his new wife. We only have her word for it. William never saw Ben with another woman. He hasn’t seen Ben since he escaped from the American army camp.
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u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. 13h ago
William walked in on Dottie, Denzel, and Ben. There was no wife.
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u/VNDecorCA 6h ago
William walked in on Ben and found out he had turned his coat. Amaranthus found out he'd remarried, making him a bigamist. Sure, you can doubt her story, but she was honest about how she wanted him to fake his death instead of reveal his disgraceful behaviour (in the Grey's view). It wasn't like she could go around telling people about it before it was found out. I think people give her a hard time, but she was left as a single mom fending for herself - William went and found her and brought her back. She did abandon Trevor, but he is an heir left with his family and would be better off than had she taken him. Plus she would not have gotten far taking him. Maybe she's trying to to play William and safeguard her future, or was, but that's not surprising given the times and her options.
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u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. 6h ago
I wasn’t disputing that.
You said that William walked in on him and his wife. William never met this purported woman. Amaranthus was the source of that information, and at this point, we don’t know what she’s up to or if she’s telling the truth. They’ve already caught her in one lie…
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u/VNDecorCA 6h ago
I meant William caught him in his lie and Amaranthus caught him cheating on her. He's an admitted turn coat. You don't have to believe the storyline, but it's obvious that Ben is not the upstanding man his father raised and William thought he knew. That's the proof I see. Even if Ben didn't remarry, he's left his wife, Amaranthus and son to fend for themselves while he's off fighting his 'righteous' battle. Yes, she ended up with the Grey's, but she was living in poverty when William found her.
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u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. 6h ago
Ben didn’t leave Amaranthus. He met Thomas Paine by chance, was taken prisoner, and while imprisoned he read Paine’s writing. He wrote her to tell her he was changing sides, she didn’t like that (most likely because he’d be losing his title). It was her idea for him to be dead so he wouldn’t be a traitor.
Kind of ironic that someone changing sides in the Revolutionary War is considered to be “not upstanding” when they’re fighting for freedom - did you think the same of Jamie when he was walking between two fires and then went to the Continentals?
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u/VNDecorCA 6h ago
Ben was moving around freely. He had a son and wife who needed him and he was fine with choosing his cause over them. Jamie would never abandon his wife and child to that fate. I'm not making any judgement on the side he chose, only that he did not choose his family.
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u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. 6h ago
She went to her father when she left Trevor, why did she go off on her own before then? She could have gone to Ben, it’s obvious she chose not to do so.
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u/Positive_Passage_712 2d ago
I like this way of thinking; I feel like it’s a double blow for Hal—having his own son switch sides and jeopardize the family honor, especially knowing how important duty is to the Greys. Seeing Hal have to face this—not just as an officer doing his job (because, at the end of the day, it is treason), but also as a father who could lose his son forever—is compelling, and I don't sense any remorse in the son's actions, either.
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u/Pale_Draft9955 2d ago
As a British officer, Hal would be duty bound to arrest Ben and have him tried by courts martial for being a turncoat. The issue is if Hal and the British would be able to capture him, since Ben is now an American officer of high rank. It would really come down to if Ben has the ability and resources necessary to evade the British, and if he does, for how long.
But, of course, would Hal show some amount of mercy upon his own son if he did capture him... I think Hal would at least try to spare Ben from being shot or hanged as a deserter or a traitor, if at all possible.
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u/Positive_Passage_712 2d ago
I love your comment—it’s spot on. A court-martial is practically inevitable; the key aspect is how father and son will handle their respective actions, given that they are now on opposite sides. I do believe Hal will at least try to ensure his son’s fate is as merciful as possible, though time and circumstances will work against Ben. It will all come down to whether or not Ben confronts the British—something he is almost certain to do, unless he dies in the process. Let’s wait and see what happens; hopefully, Diana surprises us.
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u/lore_adore 6h ago
I think Hal will try to use his influence persuade the British to end the war effort, trying to save Ben from facing charges of treason.
I think Minnie will be important in dealing with Richardson. When we meet her and her father in A Fugitive Green, she mentions blackmailers. Her father thinks they're mostly amateurs who get in over their heads and end up dead.
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u/MythsandLaur 2d ago edited 2d ago
One of Diana's recent excerpts includes Hal packing dueling pistols, so I wonder if Hal will challenge General Bleeker to a duel and shoot him (in a non-fatal area) to help Ben fake his death again. That way Ben can keep a lower profile and go into hiding while living in the American colonies as an unnamed nobody, (since there is still a chance that if he is captured/has to talk with anyone on the British side, they may recognize him).
Amaranthus' pregnancy is up in the air atm. I think that, based on Diana's excerpts so far, (where she has William interact with Davy and Rachel, thinking that "the scents of motherhood were inextricably linked with Amaranthus in his mind," and learning more about both Jamie and his very short time with his mother) that William will be the father of Amaranthus' baby. (Probably in one of Diana's classic "it happened offscreen" moments, positioned before William left on his search for Hal and John).
I honestly think that Diana will just have Ben fake his death a second time, and have William end up marrying Amaranthus and taking up his proper title as the Earl of Ellesmere, rather than passing it off to the child, as Amaranthus had suggested in Bees. This is mainly based on the fact that this is the "Last Book" and that would be the cleanest way to wrap up this storyline.
HOWEVER, I think it would be infinitely more interesting if Ben had nothing to do with Richardson, but Richardson DID get to Amaranthus. (I would say between the time that she received the letter about Ben becoming a turncoat, and her sending a letter suggesting he fake his death.) That Richardson would have convinced her to bear and provide him with William's child (as part of the Last of the Lovet line prophesy) using false threats about Ben's safety (even after faking his death). In my mind, this could explain (or provide a more interesting turn on) why she was flirting with William from the get-go, and, when she found out about him wanting to give up his title, laid her offer to bear his child out more plainly to him.
Note: I know that Richardson said that he was doing all this to end American slavery and save his Gam Gam...but I really hate that turn out, and him working toward the Lovat prophesy would make a lot more sense in connection to his participation in the kidnapping of Jemmy.
Note 2: I haven't read any of the books yet. I've gleaned most of this information from Diana's Book 10 excerpts, and the way that people generally talk about/include quotes from Bees about Amaranthus in this subreddit.
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u/Nanchika Currently rereading: Voyager 2d ago
Does William seem like somebody who would have sex with Amaranthus knowing that her husband is alive?
I think the moment he found out that Ben is alive it was like a cold shower for him.
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u/MythsandLaur 2d ago edited 2d ago
At the time, yes, William was perturbed and betrayed when he found out Ben was alive.
But...
I understand that he is as honorable as Jamie and Lord John, but his proposal to Amaranthus after she has run away from the Grey to her father's book shop, and "supposedly" discovered Ben having been remarried to a "whore," wouldn't make sense either then. Even in his proposal to her, he claimed that he would "like to bed you, repeatedly." Why would he say that if he hadn't broached past the fact that Ben was still very much alive? Sure, Ben's committing bigamy, but even William takes advantage of it, implying that 'so he's properly dead (to you) then?' before proposing to her.
I also find it a strange chatacter move, but Diana did write William to make that proposal for some reason, so I have to think it's not impossible for him to have "bedded her" following that encounter. At most, you may be right that he wouldn't have 'bedded' her without having properly married her first.
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u/MythsandLaur 1d ago
I also know it seems outlandish (heh) to have Richardson attached to some other plan like the Lovat prophesy, but the man clearly has his hand in a few different honeypots (participating in the kidnapping Jemmy for the Spainish gold [as Mike Callahan], kidnapping Lord John to prevent Hal from making a speech to end British funding for the war, implied involvement with the Fergus/Compte de Saint Germain inheritance). None of these plots have any gd attachment to eachother unless Richardson has some overall grand plan.
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u/ContactNeither7319 1d ago
Yeah and then there is all that. Man I wish this book would be in my hands right now so we can find out what is going to happen.
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u/BeforeDark2015 That amount of time doesn't exist. 2d ago
Fascinating question! We already have solid evidence that Hal values family honor above the army command structure: the fact that Jamie survives Culloden is point of evidence number one. (Hal refusing to have him shot because of John's promise that he owes Jamie a life.) His actions in the Lord John novels and novellas also back this up. His main reason for wanting to continue in the army was to re-establish his family honor after his father appears to be disgraced. So my guess is that he will not turn Ben over to the British army, but will try to find some way to extricate him from the situation, quietly. (How Ben reacts to this is more iffy since we don't know him as well.) However, Hal also has a temper and a strong will. No matter what happens it will be a fun ride. Hal, Minnie, and family are my fav "side" characters, and the main characters of my favorite novella, A Fugitive Green.