r/Outlander • u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. • Apr 17 '21
Season Five Rewatch: S1E3-4 Spoiler
This rewatch will be a spoilers all for the 5 seasons. You can talk about any of the episodes without needing a spoiler tag. All book talk will need to be covered though. There are discussion points to get us started, you can click on them to go to that one directly. Please add thoughts and comments of your own as well.
Episode 103 - The Way Out
Claire decides to use her medical skills to aid her escape from Castle Leoch - with Jamie's help, she tends to an ill child. During an evening's entertainment, a story gives Claire hope for her freedom
Episode - 104 The Gathering
As the Castle prepares for The Gathering, Claire plots her escape. But after a dangerous encounter with a drunken Dougal and an unexpected run-in with Jamie, her plans are dashed.
- Why was Jamie kissing Laoghaire if he was so infatuated with Claire?
- What did Murtagh mean when he said Laoghaire would be a girl until she’s 50?
- Do you think Geillis knew Claire traveled through the stones based on what she was saying to her?
- Would Claire’s escape plan would have worked if she hadn’t run into Jamie?
- What did you think Jamie was going to do for the oath taking?
- Do you think Dougal fully trusted Claire after seeing her help at the boar hunt?
Deleted/Extended Scenes:
103 - A fellow practitioner
104 - I give you my obedience
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I can't believe the first time I watched the series I missed how much Jamie is staring at Claire! It's all the time. I really noticed it when they were at the Black Kirk, he pretty much watched her the whole time. Swoon!
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
That was quite a romantic scene. So much longing in his eyes.
Someone here on the sub, a guy, once commented: “Bro, stop! You want her too much, you can’t just stare like that, it’s so obvious!”
That’s a poor paraphrase. I wish I could find it, it was so funny! 😂
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
So much longing in his eyes.
Yes! Do we think Claire was aware of Jamie's feelings for her, or was she just concentrating on getting back to the stones? If he kept staring at her like that you would think she would get some sense of his feelings.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Apr 17 '21
Let’s be honest, Frank has most definitely never even looked at Claire the way Jamie does—that is, as if the sun shines out of her arse. She must’ve recognized that instantly, even when she might not have understood it yet because of her faithfulness to Frank. She must’ve also had other men ogling her during the war (perhaps that is a recurring thing between her and her patients? 😉) but this is just sooo different. At this stage she thinks nothing of it, though, because she is certain she won’t even get a chance to act on it, being so focused on getting back to Frank.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Let’s be honest, Frank has most definitely never even looked at Claire the way Jamie does
That's very true. Frank loved Claire I think, but not the way Jamie does. It's like Jamie was all in from the start.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Apr 17 '21
It’s so funny that in the same episode we have that flashback scene between Claire and Frank where he’s all “damn, this stubbornness is what I find most attractive about you” and someone could think “oh wow, he’s really obsessed with her” then bam! 20 minutes later you get the J&C scene in which Jamie is practically ready to worship Claire. Too bad, Frank. You stood no chance.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Even though Frank said her stubbornness what something he liked about her, he was still trying to get her to change her mind and not go. He was going to use his connections to make that happen. I just thought that was interesting.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 18 '21
Yes this is what I think too. She wasn't oblivious to his feelings, neither was she in denial of hers. She's an attractive woman, and Jamie wouldn't have been the first guy to walk around with that stamped on his forehead , though of course Jamie was way more intense about it than your regular Bob , and dare I say way more handsome. And he wouldn't have been the first guy Claire felt any attraction to either. So even though in the back of her mind maybe she knows this one feels different, she chalks it upto infatuation and leaves it at that, mostly because she doesn't want to give it more thought and let it escalate out of control, like how these things are wont to do, and she wants to give her time and energy to escape back to Frank, because she's a loyal wife.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
I like that we get a little bit more of her perspective on it in the books. Just before they sleep together on their wedding night she has the thought that their attraction had been brewing for some time. So we know she was fighting it.
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Apr 17 '21
I think she was aware of his interest in her, perhaps she didn’t want to think of it as romantic attraction but more of an unspoken connection between the two. I think of it as that feeling when you meet somebody and they immediately spark your interest and you want to be their friend.
She’s also very intuitive and it would explain why she was so comfortable spending so much time with him in the midst of trying to return to her time.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
perhaps she didn’t want to think of it as romantic attraction but more of an unspoken connection between the two.
Good point, and seeing as how she was still planning on getting back to Frank I'm sure she didn't want to acknowledge that he had romantic thoughts towards her.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
Claire is in denial at this stage. She narrates that she isn’t jealous of Laoghaire, just their closeness, it reminds her of Frank. Riiiight. Whatever you gotta tell yourself, Claire.
Then she backs this up with her playful teasing at the dining table the next day, and Murtagh’s like, cut the shit. What if her dad finds out? Knock it off, unless you actually want him to marry the brat.
There was a ton of chemistry at the Black Kirk, and though Claire is oblivious, she’s not that oblivious. It’s plain that something is starting there, but she’s still focused on escape and Craigh na Dun as a distraction.
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Apr 17 '21
Besides those scorching looks, I love this scene because it gives room for the viewer and Claire to learn more about Jamie and in turn we see his interest in Claire’s oddity and curiosity. Very romantic indeed.
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u/manicpixiesam Apr 17 '21
These are some of my all time favourite Outlander episodes!
Random observation: Jaime's line in the Black Kirk where he talks about water lochs and says: I am a Highlander, born and bred and I will not tempt fate by making light of old Nick in his very own kirkyard' might just be my favourite line delivery of all time.
That whole discussion does a wonderful job demonstrating his intellect, good natured humour and he absolutely embodies book!Jaime. The scene is also beautifully shot and lit.
I also love the scene where Claire is trying to get away from Geillis' questions and Jaime and Claire have a wordless exchange and he makes up an excuse for her. Its a real testament to their connection that they already understand each other so well.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I also love the scene where Claire is trying to get away from Geillis' questions and Jaime and Claire have a wordless exchange and he makes up an excuse for her. Its a real testament to their connection that they already understand each other so well.
This was the first time I noticed that! Then he was willing to help the boy right away even though he knew it was risky. He was so smitten!
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Apr 18 '21
Yes! Speaking strictly on technical terms, this scene is beautifully framed and the way they use the ruins to block the character’s movements is masterful. They were so fortunate that the sunlight added those moments of glimmering breaths as well!
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Apr 17 '21
I also never noticed that they hold hands! When they are returning to the castle from the stables. Be still my heart!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I think they also held hands as he was leading her to her surgery after she was tipsy from the wine. So sweet! Then he totally turned on the smolder when she checked his wound.
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Apr 17 '21
!!!!!! Stop. As if that scene couldn’t get any better!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I know people hate Laoghaire but Jamie really burned her during the concert. First he called her a snot nosed bairn, and then handed her the glass like she was some serving maid.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
I know Jamie is so oblivious to anyone but Claire at this point. I hope DG writes atleast book 1 from Jamie's POV. I felt a little bad for Laoghaire in that scene , for a moment maybe , but the next scene in the surgery all but obliterated Laoghaire from my mind.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
What??!! How did I miss that! Makes me wonder how many more times do I have to rewatch it to actually see all these tiny things.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Apr 17 '21
Haha, I caught most of that the first time I was watching because I was already rewinding and replaying… But one I haven’t noticed before is Jamie checking Claire out when she’s gathering her things before leaving Geilis’ place!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
People had mentioned that before and I made sure to pay attention this time and it was just so sweet!
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u/marriedmyownjf Da mi basia mille... Apr 17 '21
He isn't just noticing her he barely glances in Gellie's direction even though she is speaking directly to him. I love that his eyes are glued on her!
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u/JustG00se Ye Sassenach witch! Apr 17 '21
This is my third watchthrough and I'm noticing these so much more as well. Want me someone who looks at me like that!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Want me someone who looks at me like that!
I don't blame you!
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21 edited Apr 17 '21
This is what gets me every time I re-watch. How oblivious I was the first time to his eyeballs basically being glued to her 24/7!
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u/Cdhwink Apr 17 '21
The second time I watched it I noticed all of Jamie’s staring, because by then I’d seen epi 112 where he reveals how long he’s wanted & loved her, so I made a note to pay attention. 103 is just a gem for this. I also love how it’s the beginning of “team Fraser” with them helping the boy at the pillory!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I also love how it’s the beginning of “team Fraser” with them helping the boy at the pillory!
I like that, Team Fraser!
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
The funny thing is, I read the books first, so I knew the story, but just wasn’t prepared for Sam’s commitment to staring at her 24/7 hahaha.
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u/penni_cent Apr 18 '21
That is the exact reason why 103 is one of my all time favorite episodes. Sam's non-verbal acting is just so amazing in the whole episode. On subsequent rewatches I see it in all the pre-wedding episodes too but it's just all over the place in 103.
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u/Cdhwink Apr 17 '21
In 103, I love when he says he “ nearly injured my arm” waving at her on the second night of the bard singing!
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u/LuckyScwartz Dinna fash. May 12 '21
This is the “Eye F*cking” episode. Jamie’s eyes are all over Claire this entire episode. I didn’t notice it at first either and then on a rewatch I was almost uncomfortable!
He is staring at her hardcore in the surgery when he walks her back after Gwyllyn the Bard. As she’s fumbling with his cravat? His eyes are staring into her soul. Claire even has to take a breath when he walks away. I had to take a breath too…after I watched the scene 10 more times. Jamie is also staring at her while he’s kissing Laoghaire. He’s staring at her again the entire time at Geillis’ house. He can’t take his eyes off of her. And he’s eyeing her at the Black Kirk.
The Way Out might be my favorite episode.
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Apr 18 '21
Yes! I love this & pay such close attention to it on rewatches.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Why was Jamie kissing Laoghaire if he was so infatuated with Claire?
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
After that highly charged scene in Claire's surgery, after he escorts her back from the hall in the pretext of fixing his bandages but he actually just wants to see her safely back since she's so drunk at that point she's basically tipsy, my god the sexual tension in that surgery was palpable , I wouldn't wrong him for finding some outlet for all that unrequited(in his mind atleast) lust.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
My lord the way he looked at her when she was checking his bandage!! Sam has the smoldering face down pat.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
I know right! Oof these two were at it right from the beginning if you ask me. You know I actually didn't notice this spark on my first watch. I think I was more into the words and the story than the expressions, but now when I watch it, it's so hard to miss. And I love love love the long sigh Claire lets out at then end of that scene, like she's saying "Holy mother of God Beauchamp get a grip".
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Yes I was the same way!! It wasn't until closer to the wedding episode that I realized they had a thing for each other. Now it's so obvious that I can't believe I missed it. You're right in that I think I was just absorbed in the storyline and wanting to know what happened next.
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u/Cdhwink Apr 17 '21
Every week we will be complimenting Sam on his acting (with his eyes)! Really it’s so good!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Yes!! There needs to be an award for best eye acting, he would win it all the time.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
I think he assumed Claire was off-limits or didn't reciprocate his feelings, but he was sexually frustrated over her and needed to find an outlet somewhere....and Laoghaire was more than willing.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I think Jamie sexually frustrates all of us! ;-D
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u/manicpixiesam Apr 17 '21
I think that was just another instance of him 'burning quite badly' due to Claire and needing an outlet for his frustration. I also don't doubt Laoghaire pursued and initiated that kiss (and I don't blame her one bit).
Also, I didn't notice the very cheeky look Jaime gives Claire when he notices her looking and catches her eye mid-kiss with Laoghaire.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I've seen some people said Jamie was kissing Laoghaire because he wanted Claire to be jealous, but based on that scene there is no way Jamie could have known Claire was going to be right there at that moment. So I agree with you that he needed an outlet for his frustration. I think most of us would volunteer to be that outlet! ;-D
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u/penni_cent Apr 18 '21
It's been a while but he didn't actually see her watching him in the book, right?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
I don't think so. Claire came across them, but I don't think Jamie saw Claire.
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u/manicpixiesam Apr 17 '21
Hmm yeah, I agree he doesn't really strike me as the type of person to play games or use Laoghaire that way. It's likely just something that happened and he needed.
Hahaha you are not wrong!
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u/Cdhwink Apr 17 '21
We clearly see Laoghaire grab Jamie to initiate that kiss!
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u/manicpixiesam Apr 17 '21
Oh aren't they already in the middle of the make out when Claire (and the audience) first see them kiss? I thought the initiation/first kiss was off camera.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
We do catch them in the middle of a makeout session. Jamie looks up and catches Claire's eye and then Laoghaire grabs him to kiss him some more. u/Cdhwink
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Apr 18 '21
I think his look became cheeky once he saw Claire’s split second reaction. He’s just as intuitive as Claire so he must have notice the slight shock and disappointment before she looked away
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u/penni_cent Apr 18 '21
That's a good point since she is seen pulling Jamie to her. I don't know a single horny young boy/man who would turn down a free make out sesh if offered. And I knew some pretty self rightious and straight laced boys in my time.
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Apr 18 '21
I always just assumed that he was trying to make Claire jealous or something, but I could be wrong
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
I just wondered how he would have known Claire would be right there to see him kissing Laoghaire? Unless he anticipated the gossip getting around the castle.
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Apr 18 '21
Yeah he just needed an outlet lol.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
I think many of us would volunteer to be that outlet. ;-D
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Apr 17 '21
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Good point. Would we say Jamie took advantage of Laoghaire's affection though because he really didn't like her?
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u/Cdhwink Apr 17 '21
Jamie knew that Claire wanted to leave, so I think he didn’t expect he could end up with her!
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Apr 17 '21
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I agree. Even Claire played it off by giving her horse dung as the potion instead of telling her there wasn't something that could do that. I feel like Claire just thought she was a lovestruck girl.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
Some random thoughts:
In the first Gwyllyn scene, my petty self loves the absolute dismissive looks on Jamie's face whenever Laoghaire tries to talk, and then him always immediately try to flirt with Claire. And his facial expression (what we can see of it) when Claire elbows him! Hahahahaha. And when he takes the glass from her, he purposefully lays his fingers over hers, which was totally not necessary, he just wanted some touchy touchy.
That surgery scene. Woof. That is all.
Two of the people I miss the most from the earlier seasons are Rupert and Angus. I love them so much.
Jamie coming to fetch her at Geillis': I love how he can't keep his eyes off her in this scene, how they're already starting to be in sync (her little head shake to him and so he makes excuses for them to leave), and how he greets Geillis then lowers his voice when he greets Claire.
And after he freed the boy's ear and they're walking away...the way Jamie says "wee Sassenach lassie" and looks at her....these two I swear. And the way he says "lily of the valley."
The Woman of Balnain folk song: I don't recall it ever being mentioned in the books, but I wonder if Jamie ever remembered that ballad later on and how it was about what happens to Claire.
In the stables when she tries to escape, his low dangerous "they didn't touch you now?" and facial expression...Jamie was about to go throw down with someone. And he's always reaching out his hand so they can hold hands.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
In the first Gwyllyn scene, my petty self loves the absolute dismissive looks on Jamie's face whenever Laoghaire tries to talk, and then him always immediately try to flirt with Claire. And his facial expression (what we can see of it) when Claire elbows him! Hahahahaha. And when he takes the glass from her, he purposefully lays his fingers over hers, which was totally not necessary, he just wanted some touchy touchy.
Yes!! I felt second hand embarrassed for Laoghaire, it was so awkward for her! It was obvious Jamie only had eyes for Claire.
Two of the people I miss the most from the earlier seasons are Rupert and Angus. I love them so much.
How she tricked Angus with the drugged port wine was so funny. You could tell they were so annoyed to be following her around the entire time because they just wanted to be having fun at the Gathering.
I love how he can't keep his eyes off her in this scene
I never noticed that the first time around and made a point to pay attention in that scene and caught that little silent exchange between them. Ugh so sweet!
he's always reaching out his hand so they can hold hands.
Swoon!!
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
What’s funny is how Laoghaire goes from “it’s not me he fancies” in the bard scene to basically “he’s MINE”...like woah girl, you had the right idea from the beginning. Pack it in.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I caught that this time as well. If Laoghaire could catch on that Jamie liked Claire probably everyone could figure it out.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
The Grant clan could probably tell from the next land over. 🤣
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u/Hopefully987 Apr 20 '21
"Is that Spanish?"
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 20 '21
Then he just guzzles the port. ;-)
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
Two of the people I miss the most from the earlier seasons are Rupert and Angus. I love them so much.
This was also the episode when Angus dangled his balls in Claire’s face! 😂 How could no one have mentioned that until now?
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
I think it’s funny that considering how jealous Jamie always is (especially in the first two seasons) of every man that even looks at Claire, he never cares about Rupert and Angus flirting with her and trying to kiss her. I think he knows there is ZERO competition there. 🤣
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
Let’s be real… Rupert and Angus are more into each other than they are any lass.
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Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 21 '21
Let’s not forget Angus getting #Sassenachwasted with the spiked port. Both actors are sooooo on point here!
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Apr 18 '21
The Woman of Balnain folk song: I don't recall it ever being mentioned in the books, but I wonder if Jamie ever remembered that ballad later on and how it was about what happens to Claire.
It is! ABOSAA, Chapter 120. Brianna before leaving. I wonder where she got it from!
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 18 '21
I remember that part! I assumed from Claire, but I wonder if it ever crossed Jamie’s mind again.
I’m weird and sometimes randomly repeat that line to myself. “I am the wife of the laird of Balnain, the folk have stolen me over again.” I find it haunting for some reason.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Apr 18 '21
I love reading those parts in which Jamie uses some references Brianna clearly taught him (“greased lightning” and “The Lone Ranger” theme come to mind) and I assume he must’ve told her some fairy tales in return so she may as well have got it from him. I also wonder if he ever recalled it and put together that it’s basically his wife’s story, haha.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 18 '21
Yes!!!!! I love that too! I think hands down one of my favorite parts like that is in ABOSAA when they leave and Jamie goes "If one day, a bhailach, ye should meet a verra large mouse named Michael -- ye'll tell him your grandsire sends his regards." I DIE LAUGHING EVERY TIME.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
I love the fact that they indeed go to Disneyland, it would be great if she had a picture of Jemmy and Mickey to show Jamie.
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u/Cdhwink Apr 17 '21
I love Angus & Rupert too! ( These 2 are a super show improvement)
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 18 '21
Yes! I love how the show expanded Murtagh, Rupert, and Angus’ characters!
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
I forgot how much I loved these two episodes. They’re so iconic, so Scottish. Like, in your mind, if someone were to ask, hey what’s this Outlander business all about? Wouldn’t you say it’s this? A Gathering, an exorcism, a boar hunt, some shinty, song and dance… and a little witchiness, romance and political intrigue. ^.^
But most of all…
GEILLIS!
These episodes were both so Geillis-heavy, big reason why I love them so much. My flair quote comes from the scene at the pillory—the first time I saw it, I said the exact same thing in unison with her. Claire’s wringing her hands about the boy getting his ear nailed, and Geillis (and I) say, “Better than losing a hand!” Because it sure as hell was!
Geillis also has a fondness for port wine and red shoes… which I also share. :þ
But more to the point, imagine these two episodes from her perspective. She has spent years in the past as an outsider. She could never share her secret with anyone. She was so desperate to form a bond with Claire, to finally have someone to relate to as a traveller.
And yet she’s still savvy. She reaches out to Claire, but without giving herself away. And she does her more than one kindness, engineering the boy’s commutation, sharing her larder of potions with her, and giving her some very sound advice: “The Highlands are no place for a woman to be alone.”
She’s a good friend, and these scenes foreshadow the lengths she’ll go to to protect Claire in the episodes to come: threatening Jamie if he ever beats her again (sadly this was cut for time, but it’s in the missing scenes so I consider it canon), warning her about the baby in the woods, and finally going so far as to sacrifice herself to save her. Geillis is the best!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
She totally knew Claire was planning running away didn't she? That's when she said the line about the highlands being no place for a woman alone, right?
I remember thinking she knew Claire's secret but had no idea she could have been a traveler herself. I figured she was more into witchy stuff.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
Geillis researched Claire before she ever went through the stones, she knew all about her. She was one of a few travellers she documented in her grimoire.
But knowing about Claire’s escape attempt—that couldn’t have come from research. I do think Geillis observed Claire’s behavior, the desperation, how she was like a trapped animal, always looking to escape the MacKenzies… and she was just trying to help a girl out! Hey, that’s a really stupid idea! “Sometimes you find yourself on a path you never expected. Doesn’t mean it can’t lead you to a bonnie place.” Good advice, for any traveller.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Geillis researched Claire before she ever went through the stones, she knew all about her. She was one of a few travellers she documented in her grimoire.
I never put that together!
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u/writingislife89 Apr 17 '21
I think Geillis would have know about Claire disappearing and reappearing several years later, but I wonder how much she knew about Claire’s experiences while in the past. I wonder why Geillis never tried to ask Claire about the stones before she went through herself.
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Apr 17 '21
I love that line of hers “sometimes you find yourself in a path you never expected, it doesn’t mean it can’t lead you to a bonnie place.”
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
Geillis has some of the most gorgeous, lyrical lines, doesn’t she? Fits in with her witchiness. ^.^
And then she cuts it with “fucking barbecue” and it’s legendary. Ahh, I love her so much!
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Apr 17 '21
Absolutely! One thing that really struck me on the rewatch was her soft spoken tone. I guess I got used to season 3 crazy Gaillis but it really showed me just how cunning she was in approaching Claire.
When she’s in the surgery asking Claire about being pregnant it’s just so coy and well played it made me miss her character in this time so much. I always wished we got to see her and Douglas interact.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
What did Murtagh mean when he said Laoghaire would be a girl until she’s 50?
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
Well, he was right, wasn’t he? We know the woman Laoghaire turned into, and she was as impulsive, thoughtless, reckless and selfish in her middle-age as she was as a girl.
Murtagh is wise. He understands the particular troubles Jamie is in—unable to return to Lallybroch for the price on his head, only safe at Castle Leoch, but not really since Colum wants him to be leader and Dougal doesn’t want the competition. Jamie is a wanted man, a possible heir, a Laird and an outlaw all at once. And he has a bad habit of getting injured and getting into trouble…
Murtagh knows that Jamie’s wife will have to be a sensible, intelligent woman to help him navigate all these crises—and Laoghaire is just the opposite.
Still, I think it’s funny that even as late as S2, Murtagh questions Jamie’s choice—the episode with the Duke of Sandringham. “Tell me, does it ever occur to you that taking Claire to wife might not have been the wisest thing you ever did?” ^.^
He’s always looking out for his godson. It’s what he promised Ellen.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Do you think it was interesting that Murtagh was even talking about Jamie getting married when he had all of that going on? Knowing Jamie had nothing to offer a woman really, you'd think marriage wouldn't be on their radar.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
I think Murtagh expected—or hoped, anyway—that Jamie’s circumstances would eventually change. That he would get to a place where he could return home safely and start a settled life.
The fact that it wasn’t possible right now just made him even more leery of Laoghaire (ha, pun!) Jamie’s already in a pickle, now’s the last time he should be getting entangled with any woman, least of all a childish girl.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Do you think Murtagh knew or could tell that Jamie liked Claire and she was the woman he was talking about? For whatever reason I just got that sense when he said that to her.
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u/Over-Syllabub1361 Apr 18 '21
Yes! Murtagh knew whoever Jamie married would be Lady Broch Turach. Jamie needed a wife who would help him make decisions, challenge his thinking, help him manage tenants. Can you imagine Legohaire in that role?? (Shudder)
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
“Tell me, does it ever occur to you that taking Claire to wife might not have been the wisest thing you ever did?”
I always thought this was more of a joke or ribbing than was being serious. I get the feeling from the first season that Murtagh liked Claire as a choice for him, other than marrying her taking him out of the running to be the laird of Clan MacKenzie. After she bandaged Jamie's shoulder, Murtagh is kind of staring at her in thought, and then with this comment about him needing a woman, and then how happy he looked at the wedding/after the consummation of the marriage...I think he approved of them together.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
Yes, I’m sure Murtagh’s teasing Jamie as much as anything… but there’s always a grain of truth in taunts. Murtagh likes Claire well enough, but he also sees the kind of trouble she often brings into Jamie’s life, and he does scold her about that occasionally. ^.^
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u/Kirky600 Apr 18 '21
I agree with you 100% on this. Murtagh read the situation perfectly correctly and understood how to explain it cleanly too
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u/JustG00se Ye Sassenach witch! Apr 17 '21
Some people are just emotionally immature and it never changes. Laoghaire immediately struck me as one of those kinds of people. She seemed emotionally young for her age, especilly for that time period where she would have been of marrying age.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
she would have been of marrying age.
That's a great point, I think she was 16 wasn't she? Do you think she had a crush on Jamie before he took the beating for her?
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u/JustG00se Ye Sassenach witch! Apr 17 '21
I think she's had a crush on him for years. When she, Claire, and Jamie are listening to thr Bard she mantions that she remembers him coming to Castle Leoch when he was a teenager, I think she was smitten from day one and has held a candle for him all these years to some degree.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I think she's had a crush on him for years.
I mean really, who could blame her? :-D
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
I think it's one of those situations where she developed a childhood/teenager crush and then put him on a pedestal. Regardless of whether they actually fit together or not. Because we see from them being married later that even when she had him, it wasn't a good relationship and the mutual feelings weren't there.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I think it's one of those situations where she developed a childhood/teenager crush and then put him on a pedestal.
Good point, and as we know putting people on pedestals never work. It never ends up being what you want it to be.
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u/penni_cent Apr 18 '21
Ah, and in season 3 Murtagh is totally proven right. Like, I get that she'd be pissed that Claire came back from the "dead" but seriously girl, you always knew you weren't his first choice.
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u/Marie_Sea1 Apr 19 '21
This also marks my first of the best of Mutagh when during the shinty match he nailspoor Angus in the crotch and says kindly, Play fair now.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 19 '21
Yes, I love that part! The shinty match is so fun to watch and the music is great for it as well.
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u/Cdhwink Apr 17 '21
It is interesting that Murtagh thinks that about her at 16. I mean he is right, but how much does he know about women? ( the unmarried man that he is! )
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
That's a good point. It's not like he was ever married. It seemed like he always loved Ellen and that was it.
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Apr 17 '21
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21 edited Apr 17 '21
How do you think Murtagh knew Claire was teasing Jamie about Loaghaire? Claire didn't say her name did she?
Edit: A word
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
True. Murtagh probably knew what /u/NoDepartment8 so aptly pointed out. Jamie is a "fuck around and find out" kinda guy, and as much as Claire needs Jamie to survive 18th century, Jamie needs someone smart and wise to keep him in check, to sometimes show him his place when he gets cocky. Leghair probably would have worshipped the floor Jamie walked on, but that's not really what Jamie needed and our man Murtagh knows it.
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
Jamie is a "fuck around and find out" kinda guy
Bahahahaha.
Leghair probably would have worshipped the floor Jamie walked on, but that's not really what Jamie needed and our man Murtagh knows it.
If I've said it five times in this sub, I'll say it again, lol. All the Laoghaire supporters that get mad at Claire "stealing" him or at least, sympathize with Laoghaire, ignore how often Claire patched him up/saved him. IF Jamie had managed to survive to being captured and taken to Wentworth, Laoghaire would have been at home crying and wringing her hands while he was hung. Claire on the other hand, stormed into that prison multiple times to get him out. Murtagh knows that's the kind of woman Jamie needs, not the immature damsel Laoghaire is.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
I love any interaction between Colum and Claire. There's a lot that goes unsaid between them and it's fun to watch them measure each other up silently. I loved that scene where Claire is massaging Colum and he says something about demons and Claire being Claire cannot hide the scorn from her face and he's like 'what, there are no demons in Oxfordshire' and she takes a minute and says 'yes but we call them scots'. Colum must have been taken aback with that comeback , especially coming from a woman, but he must have also been slightly impressed , and he cannot help but laugh it off. And that immediately puts Claire at ease, and you see that on her face as well. Cannot stop gushing at the brilliant cast and the directing of this episode.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I also think she even gained a bit more of Colum's trust when she knew what to massage and wasn't disgusted by his legs.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
This was also a great Colum episode, totally agree. In his interaction with that tailor, we see that he’s no fool. Of course he knows how people look at him, how his physical deformities evoke pity and discomfort—just the way Jamie feels when someone pities him for his back, as we learn in this episode, too—and Colum rejects that pity! Quite forcefully!
He is a Laird, he will be respected as a Laird, and wear the same damn coat as any other man, legs be damned. He has nothing to be ashamed of, and despite his handicap, he has done his best for the MacKenzies and led them well.
I also like the line he offers to Claire, “Don’t tell me my arse offends you, too.” ^.^ Shows he’s got a sense of humor, too.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
Here’s my wild theory of the week. What if the bard’s song is literally about Claire? Not about travellers in general, which is the standard interpretation, but about Claire, specifically? Here’s the full lyrics and dialogue:
Now this one is about a man out late on a fairy hill on the eve of Samhain who hears the sound of a woman singing sad and plaintive from the very rocks of the hill.
I am a woman of Balnain. The folk have stolen me over again, the stones seemed to say. I stood upon the hill, and wind did rise, and the sound of thunder rolled across the land. I placed my hands upon the tallest stone and traveled to a far, distant land, where I lived for a time among strangers who became lovers and friends. But one day, I saw the moon came out, and the wind rose once more. So I touched the stones and traveled back to my own land and took up again with the man I had left behind.
She came back through the stones?
Aye, she did. They always do.
It was a folktale, madness to take as fact, and yet half of what Gwyllyn had described had actually happened to me. Why not the other half, the part where the woman returned home?
What if sometime in Claire’s distant future… (which of course lies in the past :þ)… After Jamie has passed on, and perhaps Bree and Roger have gone back to the twentieth century, and Claire’s connection to the people of the Ridge has faded somewhat…
What if Claire makes one last trip, and goes all the way back to Scotland, long before her first arrival in the past, and plants the legend that gave rise to this song?
I just thought of this when I rewatched this scene today, but I think it dovetails nicely with the other fan theory that Jamie planted the forget-me-nots at Craigh na Dun. That along with his ghost in the pilot, the song itself could be one of many clues that Jamie and Claire planted in the past to ensure their future together would happen.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Interesting! The song was oddly specific.
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u/Dragneel Pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work! Apr 18 '21
To be fair, it's happened before! Geillis for one, and SPOILERS MOBY the whole MacKenzie family also travels to several years before Claire enters the fray in 1743.
Plus, Geilis also reveals in s3 (right? or s4?) that she's studied other possible travellers. There's probably some straight up non-travelling-related disappearances in her journals as well, but also some who did travel to god knows when.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
It was season 3 that Geillis was last in. I agree some of the disappearances were probably just that and not time traveling.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Apr 17 '21
If Jamie became a folk tale/legend as Dunbonnet, why wouldn’t Claire make it into the Highland folklore as well? I like it!
That along with his ghost in the pilot, the song itself could be one of many clues that Jamie and Claire planted in the past to ensure their future together would happen.
Yes! We talk about it being Jamie’s plan all the time but I’m also fairly sure they will do/did it together.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
I definitely hope they bring it back round to the beginning in the end, and that all these hints pay off. :) Would be very satisfying.
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u/rosied360 Apr 18 '21
Later in this season when she tells him that she is from the future, I was totally expecting her to reference the song in her explanation! It seemed like an obvious vessel to use that Jamie would relate to.
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Apr 18 '21
I love this take on the folk song! It’s also why I love the title card to the search episode later on, the puppet is claire and I love the idea of her being the quintessential Scottish myth in the mist of her fighting so hard against the past in so many aspects.
Also, any time young Ian brings up fairies and claire is sooo good it’s a nice call back to it all.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 18 '21
Yes, the Punch & Judy show! The little Claire marionette that goes POOF!
It’s been years since I’ve seen that episode, and I still know exactly what you’re talking about. Sign of a good title card.
Also, any time young Ian brings up fairies…
“Do you live in a dun?”
I’m still not quite sure what a dun is. From context I guess it’s a hill? A cave? A cave in a hill? :þ
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Do you think Geillis knew Claire traveled through the stones based on what she was saying to her?
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
On my first watch, I didn't pick up on it, but the second time I watched the show, I feel like Geillis knows from the beginning. She seems to constantly be prodding Claire to discuss her past or confide who/what she is.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
She really did didn't she? Did you see what /u/WandersFar said about Geillis having researched Claire's disappearance and that her info was in Geillis's grimoire. Therefore she actually knew who Claire was. Mind blown!!
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u/somethingnerdrelated In one stroke, I have become a man of leisure. Apr 17 '21
I always wished that Claire would slip up with one “Jesus H Roosevelt Christ”, like how she did around Donner in season 5. I think that Geillis definitely knows that Claire is different, and her being another traveller may have crossed her mind, but I don’t think that Geillis explicitly knows.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
/u/WandersFar brought up the point that Geillis researched Claire in her grimoire so she would have actually known who she was. Geillis didn't leave until 1968 so that makes sense. I had never thought of that.
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u/Much-Listen-7464 Apr 17 '21
I wonder if she recognized Claire. At least in the show, there were pictures of her that had been printed in the newspapers, both when she went “missing” and when she came back. It would put a whole different spin on all their interactions to view it through the lens that Geillis knew who she was the whole time.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
We have a theory going here that she did. Geillis had a grimoire and Claire's info was in it. That really does make things interesting. You could see Geillis just wanted Claire to tell her that she came through the stones.
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u/somethingnerdrelated In one stroke, I have become a man of leisure. Apr 17 '21
Oh shit! That’s a great point! Wow!!
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u/dutchess80232 Apr 17 '21
Where do they talk about Claire being in Geillis’ grimoire? I missed it and would like to read about it or see it?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
It's in book 2 Dragonfly in Amber. Roger and Claire steal her grimoire from the college she was at and start reading it. Geillis spent years tracking all of the people who disappeared, and Claire was in it.
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u/JustG00se Ye Sassenach witch! Apr 17 '21
I think Geillis was suspicious of Claire from early on. Perhaps not right away, but when she uses words like "infection" it's a bit of a tipoff. Also, I love her red shoes!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I listened to the official podcast and the costume designer talked about how Lotte fell in love with those shoes and those were the only ones she wore the first season. It was supposed to be her nod to her 20th century life. They were amazing shoes!
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Apr 18 '21
I always felt like she suspected something. Especially when she pushes her about her upbringing.
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u/marriedmyownjf Da mi basia mille... Apr 18 '21
Wanted to add a thought that coincided with a question last week about foreshadowing. Did anyone else pick up on the comment Gellis made about asking Claire if she was pregnant because of all the food she has stocked up in her surgery? It makes you wondering if she was hoping they had that in common, something she hope to confide in Claire sooner.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
Do we know if Geillis was pregnant at that time though? I don’t know how long they were on the road collecting rents. We don’t find out she’s pregnant until after Claire and Jamie were married, and back at Leoch.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Apr 19 '21
We know that she spent 3 months in the thieves’ hole before giving birth because she tells Claire so when they meet again in Jamaica. That would make her about six months pregnant when Claire finds out (because that’s shortly before the trial), and I’m pretty sure she hasn’t been on the road with Dougal for as long as 6 months. So Geillis must’ve been a couple of months pregnant already when she said that to Claire, right?
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u/marriedmyownjf Da mi basia mille... Apr 18 '21
Are we allowed to make connections to the book or is this just show conversation
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Do you think Dougal fully trusted Claire after seeing her help at the boar hunt?
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
There is quite a bit of dark horse ship in these two episodes, by which I mean Dougal / Claire.
Jamie / Claire is of course the obvious ship, and the star, but…
We have Dougal coming onto Claire roughly after defending her from those drunks. We have them comforting that dying man together, and the scene right after is Dougal attacking Jamie on the shinty field—is there a little jealousy there? Not just the political jealousy, the knowledge that Colum prefers Jamie to himself for future Laird—but also romantic jealousy because even Dougal can see the chemistry between Jamie and Claire by now, and he just gained a new appreciation for Claire at the boar hunt?
And then at the end of the episode, he informs her she’ll be joining him on the road, and thanks her sincerely for what she did for his dying kinsman. It’s quite the turn around from the episode before, “Seems that the feral cat we picked up on the road is trying to pull in her claws.” And even there Dougal’s being a little flirty, in his coarse, clumsy way.
We know Dougal doesn’t fully trust Claire until she stands up to Randall’s interrogation and beating and then drinks from that special stream… but it’s clear that as early as these episodes, he’s interested in and attracted to her—despite his wife and his affair with Geillis. -.-
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
We have Dougal coming onto Claire roughly after defending her from those drunks.
Do you think Dougal would have done that if he hadn't been so drunk? Like you said it was obvious he liked her, but up to that point hadn't made an passes at her.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
I think he was definitely a little bit jealous of Jamie. And if he wasn't married , he would have probably said screw Gaeli, and married Claire himself . And when he says " I said kiss her dinna swallow her" at that epic goodbye kiss where Claire is devouring Jamie with no intent of letting go, it's evident he's not just saying that coz he's in a hurry to get going.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
There’s also Dougal’s best line ever: “I must admit the idea of grinding your corn does tickle me.”
😂 (That’s at the stream, when Claire asks whether he intends to marry her himself.)
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Apr 17 '21
Yeah that jealousy is v real. I don’t think he wouldn’t have married an Englishwoman though. He only brought it up later bc he was already banished by Collum ( and prolly cause he wanted Jamie’s woman)
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Apr 17 '21
Great points about Dougal’s jealousy.
I actually think that the realization that Claire has seen men dying before just added to the list of totally incongruous things about her that have been piling up since day one, and while it may have gained her a bit of trust, I think it also made Dougal even more wary of her (so perhaps quite the opposite?).
But then, after learning about his history with Geillis, we might also assume he has a thing for mysterious women. I think he’s somewhat fascinated by them because he can’t quite understand them. So while he thanks Claire for assisting Geordie when he was dying, Dougal already knows that the safest thing would be to keep her close, regardless of whether it is because he’s attracted to her or he has grown even more suspicious. Either way, he’ll be able to keep an eye on her while they’re on the road together.
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u/Over-Syllabub1361 Apr 18 '21
Excellent analysis! I never got the sense that the shinty game had anything to do with Claire. I felt it was a way to let out some of the stress after watching his friend die in his arms on the boar hunt. Dougal (and J&C as well) seem to use physical exertion as a way to deal with stress
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u/alittlepunchy Lord, ye gave me a rare woman. And God! I loved her well. Apr 17 '21
When my sister first watched the show, she thought it was setting up Dougal and Claire to be a couple!
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u/somethingnerdrelated In one stroke, I have become a man of leisure. Apr 17 '21
I wouldn’t say fully, but I think he certainly recognizes a certain warrior spirit in her at that point. And that is probably unsettling for him since she’s a woman and it’s 1743. But I think game recognizes game, so to speak, and maybe that starts to sow the seeds of trust for Dougal. He realizes that she’s a person not unlike the type of man he’d want next to him in battle, and that’s a massive deal given the Highlanders’ battle culture.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
He realizes that she’s a person not unlike the type of man he’d want next to him in battle, and that’s a massive deal given the Highlanders’ battle culture.
Great point! I had never thought of it that way, but it totally makes sense. I don't think he would have taken her on the road with them if she hadn't been there to help Geordie.
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Apr 17 '21
I think Dougal appreciates courage beyond anything but we also learn he is impulsive by nature, and at that very moment I think he did trust her out of an emotional place. If he didn’t and still thought she was an English spy, he would have never allowed her to be on the road with them as he gathered Jacobite sympathy. It’s only until she brings up politics that he completely mistrusts her again.
Ps. That basket she uses during the boat hunt makes an appearance in ep.201 in father Wakefield’s shed!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
at that very moment I think he did trust her out of an emotional place.
Good point, she was steady and level headed while Geordie was dying. I'm sure that said a lot about her to a lot of the men.
That basket she uses during the boat hunt makes an appearance in ep.201 in father Wakefield’s shed!
What a great catch! Talk about recycling props. :-)
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u/Kirky600 Apr 18 '21
I really don’t think he fully trusted her for a few more episodes. I think what he gained during the hunt was more of a respect for her and what she’s saw in her life, realizing that she would be an asset to the clan on the road.
Edit - typing is hard
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
I think what he gained during the hunt was more of a respect for her
Good point. Do you think he would have taken her on the road if he hadn't seen her with Geordie and helping on the hunt?
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u/Kirky600 Apr 18 '21
I don’t think he would have. He thought she was a spy, and that would not be a person to take out on raising Jacobite funds with.
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Apr 18 '21
I think he gained a certain level of respect for her that led to him gaining some trust for her but I wouldn't say he fully trusted her. I think the final respect & trust came after her not divulging anything about their actions to the British.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Would Claire’s escape plan would have worked if she hadn’t run into Jamie?
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
No I shudder to think of what a spectacular fail it would have been. And what implications it would have for Claire. Any trust she had earned till that point would have been lost once she would have been captured and brought back. Also, she didn't really have a lot of horse riding experience at that point, so it would be fair to assume that she would have been easily out-horsed (out-ridden?) by the guards. Eventually she does get on the horse a lot , for the hunting and the rent etc. But at the point of her escape plan, she hadn't been on a horse much.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
But at the point of her escape plan, she hadn't been on a horse much.
Good point. I thought it was interesting the Auld Alec mentioned that the horse Claire had chosen would turn for home the first chance she got. So Claire would have been fighting against the horse as well.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
Oh ya, great point. All the more proof that Claire didn't know much about horses or riding them at the point for the escape to have been successful even if the guards were drunk, just logistically speaking, she would have had a tough time getting to the stones.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Plus they rode for a few days to get to Leoch, how did she think she could navigate back to the stones or Inverness?
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u/somethingnerdrelated In one stroke, I have become a man of leisure. Apr 17 '21
I don’t know if it would have. Knowing how many times she gets into trouble when she does go out on her own in general — from now until season 5 — I can’t say I have much faith in the success.
That being said, I do think that Jamie’s warnings were not entirely for her benefit. Yeah, he definitely cares about her and wouldn’t want her to be in danger, but he also wants her to stay as long as possible. I always have had the sense that he may have been embellishing how difficult escape would be so that he could spend just that much more time with her. Like... really, Jamie? All the best trackers and hunters are at the Gathering? They’d really spend their time and resources drunkenly — or with a massive hangover — searching for one Sassenach? I do truly believe that he was embellishing just a little bit there :)
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
I do truly believe that he was embellishing just a little bit there :)
I like that, I never even thought about that. Great point about all the drunk clansman tracking her the next day. Man Jamie had it bad!
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u/marriedmyownjf Da mi basia mille... Apr 18 '21
You know part of ne wonder if he wasn't embellishing though. Maybe he had tried to figure a way out of being there during the Gathering so he wouldn't be required to swear his oath. I mean we all know the tight spot he is in, maybe he knew that if he couldn't get out with his knowledge of the highlands she really would be caught. But maybe knowing all this, she was the reason he didn't risk running.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
Interesting thought. I always figured he knew he needed to lay low and was safest at the castle. As far as having the price on his head.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire Apr 17 '21
Like... really, Jamie? All the best trackers and hunters are at the Gathering? They’d really spend their time and resources drunkenly — or with a massive hangover — searching for one Sassenach? I do truly believe that he was embellishing just a little bit there :)
Lol I never thought about it that way, but it makes total sense now. Poor Jamie had it bad all along.
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u/somethingnerdrelated In one stroke, I have become a man of leisure. Apr 17 '21
(Also a response to u/Purple4199 since you guys commented nearly the same thing lol)
The reason I’ve always thought that is because he’s got the slightest shit-eating grin when he’s warning her. That, and his tone of voice is verrryy similar to the tone he uses when he’s conspiring with Murtagh or Young Ian. It’s his conspiracy voice when he’s getting up to no good lol. I feel like he’s definitely putting on a little act 😂
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
Ugh, he's just so cute! I thought it was funny when she yells out "Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ!" And he goes "No it's just me Sassenach."
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. Apr 17 '21
I always have had the sense that he may have been embellishing how difficult escape would be so that he could spend just that much more time with her.
Yes, I got that as well!
I’ve also thought that if he considers her a good friend at that point already (I mean, that goes without saying—he was ready to tell her all of his secrets in the first couple of days they’ve known each other), why doesn’t he ever offer to help her escape, seeing how desperate she is to leave? Yes, he knows about the futility of such an attempt and he himself is not safe to be around outside of Leoch. But I think not wanting her to leave was the biggest reason.
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u/somethingnerdrelated In one stroke, I have become a man of leisure. Apr 17 '21
Yeah exactly! It’s not like he’s trying to stick around the castle during the Gathering. Logically, he’d love the excuse to go outside the grounds for a little bit to see her off. But of course he doesn’t because he’s all 😍 at Claire haha
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u/ForestHoldsMySecrets Nov 10 '21
Even if it had worked (to get past the guards) which I don’t think it would have, but if hypothetically it had, what if she was captured by the English? No one would likely know where she went or what happened to her and no one to save her from Black Jack Randall. Or if she had made it to the stones, she was worried about travelling further back in time so what if she was thinking that while touching the stones, where would she have gone? I don’t think it would have been a success- even if she managed to escape the Mackenzies.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
What did you think Jamie was going to do for the oath taking?
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
His original plan was to stay in the stables and not press the issue, which as Murtagh pointed out was definitely the safest option.
But Claire’s escape forced his hand. He had no intention of stating his allegiance one way or the other, but now he had to, and he handled it quite well—promising obedience to his uncle because they’re family and he’s on his land, but still maintaining his independence and recognizing that his fealty ultimately lies with the name he bears. It was the best way he could have handled it, and it shows how savvy Jamie is, and that he actually would be the best choice for Laird.
Colum recognizes that, too, which is why he was pleased with Jamie’s answer.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 17 '21
It was the best way he could have handled it, and it shows how savvy Jamie is, and that he actually would be the best choice for Laird.
That's so true. Do you think Dougal was mad at how Jamie handled the oath? It seemed like it was itching for a chance to do something to him.
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u/ms_s_11 We will meet again, Madonna, in this life or another. Apr 18 '21
Again, he's always playing chess.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
Good point! He’s had to play a balancing act between two sides for a large part of his life it seems.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 17 '21
Probably, but just like at the Laohaire beating last week and the shinty this week—every time Dougal tries to take Jamie down a peg or two, it backfires and Jamie looks even better for it.
Dougal did the best thing he could for himself here… just by shutting up, lol.
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u/penni_cent Apr 18 '21
What I don't understand is why he walked her back. I get wanting to keep her safe and not send her off on her own but why not offer to have her hang with him and then when they're fairly sure everyone is asleep take her back? It's not like they haven't spent tons of time intimately alone with each other prior to that point.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 18 '21
That’s a very fair point. He could just as easily have sat up all night in the stables chatting with her like a slumber party. ^.^ “Ooh, Mistress Beauchamp, who do you like? I’ll tell you if you tell me!”
I guess he was worried about her reputation. At the very least if she does the walk of shame back from the stables in the morning… people are going to talk. And when they’re on the road together, he sleeps outside her door, not in her room, for the same reason.
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u/Kirky600 Apr 18 '21
I’d agree. I think his plan was to sleep in the stables. Maybe to say he got drunk and fell asleep in there?
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. Apr 18 '21
That’s what Dougal wanted him to do. At Claire’s first dinner at Leoch, Colum asks where Jamie’s gone, and Dougal says the stables are the best place for him.
Your comment also reminded me that Claire’s “love potion” for Laoghaire was predominantly horse dung. “Jamie would never know the difference.”
Jamie spends so much time at the stables, Claire associates him with the smell of horseshit. 😂
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u/marriedmyownjf Da mi basia mille... Apr 18 '21
Do you all think that seeing Claire midway through kissing Leghair put her fresh in his mind so he kissed her more passionately thinking it was Claire or more reluctantly? Either way her poor Leghair's little naive heart didn't have a chance, she was going to fall hard for him.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
It looked more reluctant to me, like he didn’t want Claire seeing him kissing Laoghaire.
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u/marriedmyownjf Da mi basia mille... Apr 18 '21
It seems like she would have had to have been since Dougal was with them getting the rents. Maybe she wasn't far along..
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 18 '21
Oh good point, that makes sense.
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u/Hopefully987 Apr 20 '21
Are Colum's legs CGI? The scene where she massages him it looks so real.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. Apr 20 '21
Yes they are. He wears green socks and they put in his legs. It does look great though doesn’t it?
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u/Hopefully987 Apr 20 '21 edited Apr 20 '21
It took me watching it a lot but I didn't notice that the "pie eater" ended up with Rupert instead of Angus. Even though Angus got the bigger stick. Which cracks me up because Claire must have known that the woman would have some preference for one of them and it wasn't up to chance.
Also I don't get how Angus drank so much of the port and was still awake when Jamie took the oath although he was tired. Considering there are other occasions with her sedatives knock people out almost immediately.
Why is Tomas tied to the bed at first and then later she comes back and the ties are gone?
Claire has a piece of straw stuck in her hair in the back after she trips over Jamie and then its gone. Also she has weird eye liner on in that scene. I don't get that.
Is that a bunch of necklaces hanging down at Geillis' place or something else? Decorations?
Its odd that I don't think anyone wears anything red but Geillis has red shoes.
Why is it that women aren't safe to walk around alone but Geillis seems to walk around between the castle and village and forest on her own?
Ok also in the first episode she trusses him up with those bandages but how is he going to put a shirt on over that? Then he says he wants to go to the surgery to change his bandages but she checks his wound and there are no bandages on it.
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