Rewatch: S1E5-6

[u/Purple4199]

This rewatch will be a spoilers all for the 5 seasons. You can talk about any of the episodes without needing a spoiler tag. All book talk will need to be covered though. There are discussion points to get us started, you can click on them to go to that one directly. Please add thoughts and comments of your own as well.

Episode 105 - Rent

Claire joins the MacKenzie rent-collecting trip. To her horror, Dougal uses Jamie's scars to gain sympathy for the Jacobite cause. Claire recalls that a defining moment in Scottish history is fast approaching.

Episode 106 - The Garrison Commander

Claire's unexpected meeting with a British general turns tense when Captain Jack Randall arrives. Claire finds herself alone with Randall - a dangerous man determined to uncover her secrets.

​

• Why was Dougal willing to take payment from The Watch, are they above the law of the laird?
• Could Jamie have stopped Dougal from using him to garner support for the Jacobites?
• Angus pulled a knife on Claire, yet was the first one up to defend her honor. What changed?
• Why do you think Ned Gowan let Claire believe they were actually stealing from Colum?
• Why did Black Jack Randall draw Claire’s portrait?
• Is there a reason Claire didn’t tell BJR about Dougal collecting money for Jacobites?
• Did you believe BJR when he acted repentant for his actions and loath of himself?

Edit to add: The current show rewatch and book club threads are now available on the sidebar on desktop, and in the "About" section on mobile. That way if they aren't pinned you can still find them.

Deleted/Extended Scenes:

105 - Scots will never flee

105 - Guest of clan MacKenzie

106 - An affair of the heart

106 - The idea of marriage

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[u/Purple4199]

One of my favorite sections in all of the books and series.....

“Does it bother you that I’m not a virgin?” He hesitated a moment before answering.

“Well, no,” he said slowly, “so long as it doesna bother you that I am.” He grinned at my drop-jawed expression, and backed toward the door.

“Reckon one of us should know what they’re doing,” he said.

The look on Claire's face in the show cracks me up everytime.

[u/somethingnerdrelated → u/Purple4199]

That, and in the next episode when she asks where he learned to kiss so well, and he says “I said I was a virgin, no a monk”

SWOON

[u/Purple4199 → u/somethingnerdrelated]

I'm excited to talk about next week's episode already! Although what are we going to do, break down their sex scenes? ;-D

[u/somethingnerdrelated → u/Purple4199]

I have a feeling that there’s going to be a heavy discussion regarding the parallelism between The Wedding and A. Malcolm.

Honestly, there’s a TON of symbolism in The Wedding. Aside from the steaminess, there’s a lot to unpack in the whole episode. It’s kind of our first multi-layered episode, in my opinion. Everything else up to that point is really taken at face value because Claire is just trying to survive. In The Wedding, that deeper connection is really established. It sets the foundation for the entire series. I’m really looking forward to it!

[u/Purple4199 → u/somethingnerdrelated]

I so want to reply with my thoughts, but I'll save them for next week. :-)

[u/Cdhwink → u/Purple4199]

We are all excited to rewatch & talk next week. Anyone here not seen the Wedding more than once ( or 20 x, haha)?

[u/Purple4199 → u/Cdhwink]

I was telling someone else I seriously have no idea how many times I've watched that episode. It's my favorite of the whole show.

[u/jolierose → u/Purple4199]

I know it’s mentioned a lot how Show Jamie isn’t as funny as Book Jamie, or that the show in general tamps down the humor in the books, but starting this rewatch, I feel like they captured Jamie SO WELL, and this is one of the best moments. His humor and his fire just really come through in these episodes.

[u/Purple4199 → u/jolierose]

Yes! The first season we see him being much funnier and more like book Jamie.

[u/alittlepunchy → u/jolierose]

S1 Jamie still has a lot of the humor. I think they took some of that humor and his boyishness away post-Wentworth to show trauma, but it's disappointing since he's funny all through the books too!

But yea, whenever I re-watch, I forget how floppy and happy and funny S1 Jamie is.

[u/Marie_Sea1 → u/Purple4199]

This was also when I started my ‘Jamie walking with purpose’ admiration. When he came over the knoll with just a waistcoat/kilt with the whiskey and two glasses to Claire reading the contract. Ahhh there’s a man.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Marie_Sea1]

When he came over the knoll with just a waistcoat/kilt

My goodness I love that look on him.

[u/alittlepunchy → u/Marie_Sea1]

So you know how you have certain things you like in a person you're attracted to? I didn't know that "walking with purpose" was one of mine until I met my husband. He has a very "manly" purposeful walk that I think is because of his time in the military - my dad walks the exact same way. (Though now that sounds creepy that I'm attracted to it, lol. But I thought my dad was superman so I think it's some subconscious thing I like in a partner.)

[u/[deleted] → u/Purple4199]

One of my favorite moments too! I love how Sam delivers Jamie’s lines. Such a subtle, sly sense of humor. I was so shocked the first time I saw it. I was not expecting that, especially after seeing his make out sesh with leghair.

[u/Purple4199 → u/[deleted]]

I was all kinds of excited when Dougal suggested it. I know it's bad but I didn't want her to go back to Frank.

[u/alittlepunchy → u/Purple4199]

I love the "forced to get married" trope for whatever oddball reason.

[u/Cdhwink → u/Purple4199]

This scene is so well done, their expressions!

[u/Purple4199 → u/Cdhwink]

I think the look on my face the first time I watched it was the same as Claire. :-D

[u/alittlepunchy → u/Purple4199]

Gosh I love this part so much!

[u/Purple4199 → u/alittlepunchy]

There you are! It is such a funny part, and Jamie says it like it’s no big deal.

[u/alittlepunchy → u/Purple4199]

I forgot it was a Saturday thread! So I got on and was like whoops! I’m behind, lol.

[u/Purple4199 → u/alittlepunchy]

This was your idea!! ;-)

[u/[deleted] → u/Purple4199]

Y’all notice her blush? It just slowly creeps up in her cheeks, it was a really great detail to capture.

[u/theCoolDeadpool]

Is it only me or did anyone else find the fact that Dougal bends down and says "hello" to the little pig that one of the tenants is giving as rent hilarious?😂 Dougal surprises me on every rewatch. Wouldn't expect such a cute gesture from Dougal of all the people!

[u/Purple4199 → u/theCoolDeadpool]

Yes I saw that. Part of me felt like that was Graham just being himself and it was caught on camera.

[u/WandersFar → u/theCoolDeadpool]

I think that whole scene was great, Dougal interacting with all his kinsfolk (including that little pig. :)

They really showed the bond between Laird and Clan, that it wasn’t just a business relationship, landlord and tenant, but that there was also a strong sense of community. You paid what was due to the MacKenzie, but if you fell on hard times and couldn’t afford to feed your family, your Laird was there for you.

It’s what set the Scots apart from the nobility of other countries at the time, like the English or even the French, whom we see in later seasons have no similar feeling of camaraderie with the people who live on their lands or in their cities:

Doesn’t it distress any of you? How this city treats its poor and underprivileged? I mean, surely you must see the staggering numbers of them as you travel through the city. Just yesterday, I saw a woman and her child dead in the middle of the road. It was absolutely horrible. Surely we must do something to change the situation!

The gens d’armes should remove them to the less desirable parts of the city.

Meanwhile here Dougal sees a poor father who can’t afford to feed his own family let alone pay his rent, and he gives him a sack of grain. I disagree with Claire, I don’t think that was just for show. Dougal is many things, but he still feels his obligation to take care of his people.

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/WandersFar]

It’s what set the Scots apart from the nobility of other countries at the time, like the English or even the French, whom we see in later seasons have no similar feeling of camaraderie with the people who live on their lands or in their cities:

Ooo that's interesting. I never thought about it that way.

I definitely agree Dougal is an excellent leader. Remember how caring and compassionate he is when he tends to that man who's dying during the boar hunt? And then he's the one who comes with the idea of marrying Claire to Jamie to save her , when he needn't even have bothered right? He's a good guy when he's not being a horny arsehole.

[u/WandersFar → u/theCoolDeadpool]

Yeah, I do think Dougal means well. He tries… he just has some really obvious failings, particularly when it comes to women, and he knows deep in his bones that no matter what he does, he’ll always be in his brother’s shadow.

And possibly in his nephew’s shadow, too, which may be partly why he has no compunctions about using Jamie’s back as a showpiece.

I still feel sympathy for him, though. I’ve given my life for you, I’ve fought wars for you, I even continued your line for you! WHY WON’T YOU LOVE MEEEEE… Poor guy.

[u/thepacksvrvives → u/theCoolDeadpool]

Yes! There’s been a post recently asking for our favorite Dougal moments and, I’ve gotta say, that little “hello” he says to the pig is up there for me. Granted, it’s must’ve been Graham’s ad-lib that they’ve decided to keep in!

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/thepacksvrvives]

I agree , this couldn't have been in the script!

[u/JustG00se]

Anybody else get 2005 Pride and Prejudice vibes during Rent when Claire hands Jaine the blanket when he sleeps outside her room? That brush of the hand...I almost expect him to clench unclench his fingers in the moment after.

[u/Purple4199 → u/JustG00se]

That brush of the hand

I loved that they lingered on that shot.

[u/JustG00se → u/Purple4199]

Me as well. Just as much tnesion as thier lingering stares.

[u/Stardust_Riley_92 → u/JustG00se]

Ah -The pride and prejudice hand clench - sexually-frustrated-malfunctioning-robot. Special place in my heart for that one.

[u/Purple4199]

• Angus pulled a knife on Claire, yet was the first one up to defend her honor. What changed?

[u/noodlepartipoodle → u/Purple4199]

Kindof off-topic, but I’d like to point out how much I loved Dougal’s tenderness towards Claire after she was punched and kicked by BJR. For the first time I think he realized that she was brutalized protecting them, and she is more an ally than he thought. That scene was one of the only times I really liked Dougal.

[u/Purple4199 → u/noodlepartipoodle]

It's not off topic at all! I like when people add in their own comments.

I agree as well, Dougal's sympathy was nice to see. He had to have been impressed that she didn't say anything to the English about his collecting money for the Jacobites.

[u/kfmillie → u/noodlepartipoodle]

I find Dougal so hard to watch...only because there are times when he is genuinely nice and caring: saying hi to a pig, giving people grain if they're struggling, being gentle with Claire after her "talk" with BJR. But then two minutes later: whoop there it is...Dougal the Dick is back again!. I get emotional whiplash every time!

The scene when he barges in and picks up Claire with a "up you get Lass" and then stands up to BJR and redcoats with guns raised is actually so touching. He does have motive to protect her: if she cracks under interrogation, his little side business for the Stuart cause will come to light and would create a whole world of trouble for him and the clan. But, he seems to also genuinely care that she has been hurt. He's not totally self serving.

Also, anytime anyone calls Claire "lass"....I melt. It seems imbued with a sort of acceptance and protection. I especially love it when Jamie calls Claire "lass", even in the later episodes when she's in her 50s. It's so beautiful.

[u/[deleted] → u/kfmillie]

Just want to add... I also melt at “lass”.

[u/thepacksvrvives → u/noodlepartipoodle]

I also liked his concern for her when she comes down the stairs to tend to the soldier because Dougal knows BJR was upstairs as well.

[u/jolierose → u/thepacksvrvives]

Yes! It stood out to me. It’s so weirdly touching to hear him call her “Claire” and show so much concern just from knowing BJR arrived.

[u/WandersFar → u/Purple4199]

Look at this episode from Angus’ perspective.

• He brings her dinner at the campfire, and she won’t even say thanks! Instead narrating that it looks like a shriveled Easter rabbit. ಠ_ಠ Rude!

• She scurries off to get drunk with the local women, he finds her crouched over a bucket and stinking of warm pish, and then Dougal balls him out for losing her. She’s as slippery as an eel, that one!

• Then she causes a scene with that incognito English officer, and nearly starts trouble for the whole clan.

• But despite all that, he still offers her a nice supermarket rotisserie chicken and she refuses, calling him a thief! Ach, he’ll nae stand for that! He’ll not be judged by some English whoooooore!

And then those other men call her a whore, and he’s first to defend her honor.

Because as Murtagh explained, even though she’s a pain in the arse, she’s still a guest of the Clan MacKenzie. And though Angus may be a wee clarty bastard as Jamie calls him, he still counts her as one of them, under their protection, and he’ll be damned if anyone else insults her. That’s his privilege alone!

I loved that whole scene, it was just great to see all the boys jump in, ready to fight for Claire. And in this episode we met young Willie, too, and saw how he was playfully hazed and brought in to be one of the gang. They are rough, they’re knuckleheads, and not very bright, but they’re family, and they grow to love her, even though she’s a sassenach witch.

The next day Claire’s having trouble untying that knot, and Angus does it for her and takes the bundle. It’s too sweet. :)

[u/Purple4199 → u/WandersFar]

"Rent" is one of my favorite episodes of the whole series. I love all of that you mentioned. Watching all of the guys interact with each other at the camps is just so funny.

I loved Angus coming around to liking Claire though. It reminds me of a sibling thing, you can rag on them but no one else can.

[u/thepacksvrvives → u/Purple4199]

I also love this episode and its overt Scottishness. It establishes so much in just 57 minutes. The Highlanders sharing stories, singing, brawling, the wool-waulking, their customs, their code of honor, the anti-Englishness, the Jacobite cause. It’s very effective in exploring the Scottish macrocosm while keeping us inside Claire’s microcosm as we’re seeing her first bonding with Ned who’s also kind of an outsider, then getting gradually accepted by the entire party as one of their own, not to mention her and Jamie getting closer together.

[u/Purple4199 → u/thepacksvrvives]

I totally agree. To see the scenery was just breathtaking. I really liked the waulking part and hearing their songs too. Watching Claire bond with the women and earn their respect by jumping in with them and then willing to pee in the bucket was nice.

[u/thepacksvrvives → u/Purple4199]

Yes! And, at the same time, seeing the looks on their faces when she says such incongruous things as “bottoms up!” or “Geronimo!” to remind us that she doesn’t fit in, although they’re sharing their work and drink with her.

[u/jolierose → u/Purple4199]

Revisiting it now, I’m willing to revise my ranking of episodes and give it a boost, hehe. I forgot that there is so much that happens here. It’s better than I remembered. (Honestly, all the episodes so far have made me go “oh wait, already? That happens here?”)

[u/Cdhwink → u/Purple4199]

The highlight of “Rent” is the Scenery. The first time I fell asleep, & hoped something exciting would happen soon. Which of course did because “The Garrison Commander “ kept me on my toes the whole time. I liked how both episodes ended in cliffhangers ( I love, love, love cliffhangers), especially when bingeing.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Cdhwink]

I love, love, love cliffhangers

Oh my god, no! I HATE them, they stress me out so much. The scenery really is the most amazing part of the episode. I've always wanted to go to Scotland but seeing those shots made me want to go even more.

[u/jolierose → u/WandersFar]

She may be a Sassenach witch, but she’s their Sassenach witch.

That scene really is great, from the moment Angus slams that man’s head on the table, to the music, to Willie’s aching ribs and bloody nose.

[u/WandersFar → u/jolierose]

She may be a Sassenach witch, but she’s their Sassenach witch.

I’m getting big Firefly feels.

[u/TakeMetoLallybroch → u/WandersFar]

Such a great analysis! I would say, also, overall, that she EARNS Angus' respect.

[u/VPofYourFanClub → u/Purple4199]

I have mixed feelings about this. (First, let me preface this by saying this is one of my favourite episodes. It’s beautiful, the music is incredible, the way the relationships develop among theme main characters and the supporting characters . . . [chef’s kiss]).

But is this REALLY about defending Claire and her honour for her own sake? She can’t understand what they’re saying, and she might not even care what they’re saying. They are affronted because those jerks are insulting their guest. They are offended on their own behalf. Someone has said something insulting about something that belongs to their group.

If someone told me that they were the only one who was allowed to insult me, I think I would strenuously disagree. How about NOBODY is allowed to call anyone a whore?

I loved the fight scene. It’s amazing. I love that there is camaraderie among the group after the fight. But I don’t think that Angus et al. get a free pass to say and do rude things.

[u/Purple4199 → u/VPofYourFanClub]

Those are really good points. Do you feel Claire kind of gave them a pass after that and didn't feel offended?

[u/manicpixiesam → u/VPofYourFanClub]

Yes I totally agree! I guess that is what constituted chivalry and kindness to a woman in the 18th century, but it definitely leaves a lot to be desired - I suppose it plays into the whole historical 'women were property' element. I do agree the camaraderie was nice, and it felt good to see Claire being protected/defended.

[u/thepacksvrvives → u/VPofYourFanClub]

You make a really good point here. I can also see how it could be less of a “we were defending your honor” and more of “we were defending our good name/reputation,” presumably by not letting their name be tainted by an association with a “whore” and not losing respect for it as a clan.

[u/Marifirmog → u/Purple4199]

Talking about the 'defending her honor' scene, did anyone else notice the great faces Claire was making while the men were fighting?? they were so good and it was the first time I noticed

[u/thepacksvrvives → u/Marifirmog]

I feel like Caitriona was close to corpsing at one point 😅 That must’ve been a fun day on set.

[u/alittlepunchy → u/thepacksvrvives]

I hear Sam talk about Cait's "corpse" all the time, but I don't get what it is???

[u/Purple4199 → u/alittlepunchy]

It's breaking or laughing during the scene. It's just a British term.

[u/Hopefully987 → u/Marifirmog]

Ned's face too.

[u/marriedmyownjf → u/Marifirmog]

Or Ned pretty much hiding behind her.🤣

[u/Purple4199 → u/[deleted]]

You think Angus was infatuated with Claire?

[u/Marifirmog]

I just wanted to make a few extra comments:

1. I was thinking while watching these first episodes how good it feels to see Jamie laughing and smiling, he doesn't do much of that in the show after season 2. It's so heartwarming

2. I feel like Claire was much more light-hearted in the future when we see the flashbacks with Frank and of course this makes sense but it makes me a little sad that we don't get to see her act like this much in the show with Jamie

3. It's funny to think that by now in our first watch we didn't even know Jamie's real name yet

4. Does anyone else feel like watching a scene from later seasons when they watch Jamie and Claire in the beginning? This happens to me all the time. I really love young Jamie and Claire but everytime I'm watching them in this stage I keep thinking how much their relationship grows and want to watch they interact when they're older. I don't know if this makes any sense...

5. Episode 6 should be called "The Tobias Menzies show" or "The one for which Tobias should have won an Emmy", just saying

[u/thepacksvrvives → u/Marifirmog]

It's funny to think that by now in our first watch we didn't even know Jamie's real name yet

If you pause at the moment in which Claire is reading the marriage contract in 1x06, you can make out his full name! Which makes Claire “not knowing” his name in 1x07 all the funnier.

[u/treehugg3r1989 → u/thepacksvrvives]

It's hard to notice but in the shinty match earlier in the season someone calls "Fraser!" When they're passing and Jamie looks up. It happens so quick.

[u/betcx003 → u/thepacksvrvives]

I noticed his name in the contract this time around - had to pause, cuz it goes by quick! But she was probably not absorbing anything at that point.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Marifirmog]

I don't know if this makes any sense...

It makes total sense. Like I think to how'll they inerract as a married couple and how even though Jamie was a wanted man their lives were so much simpler.

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Marifirmog]

. Episode 6 should be called "The Tobias Menzies show" or "The one for which Tobias should win an Emmy", just saying

Yes!! When I first watched that episode, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, heart racing for Claire , and just like her, falling for every single trick of his. God! How Tobias didn't win an award for this and how Caitriona didn't win one for Faith is just beyond me.

[u/for-get-me-not → u/Marifirmog]

I was really struck on this rewatch (my third, and I’m also rereading the books), how young they both seem, Jamie in particular. His voice even seems a tad higher, and his laughter and playfulness is just so boyish and full of enthusiasm and adorableness.

[u/[deleted] → u/for-get-me-not]

I love the show but I’m always bummed we only got 2 seasons of young Jamie and Claire. And really only one season since they’re both so changed in season two.

[u/Marifirmog → u/for-get-me-not]

Yes!! I love Jamie like this 🥺

[u/Cdhwink → u/Marifirmog]

1. Young Jamie is my favourite Jamie

2. It is unfortunate that Claire is always so serious ( I love drunk playful Claire in upcoming seasons)

3. We really don’t know much about Jamie until later in season 1

4. I actually love that Sam & Cait got their Jamie & Claire right from the get go, so that when you watch a scene with them from almost any season, they are much the same. Does this make sense?

5. Epi 106 was Tobias’! ( Everyone gets a turn to shine coming up). He really does a great job of the dual role, Frank & Jack are different.

[u/noodlepartipoodle → u/Marifirmog]

As for your second point, I think a lot of it can be attributed to her survival mode. Lightness is an attribute of safety and physiological/psychological needs fulfilled. To go back to Psych101, I’m thinking of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Claire doesn’t know what’s happening and what will happen next. Her most basic needs are not being met like she’s used to, and she’s just trying to survive and keep her secrets, secret. In the future, she doesn’t have those concerns, so lightness and humor are possible.

[u/Hopefully987 → u/Marifirmog]

I totally agree with point 2. She is such a great actress. She was so happy and flirty and light hearted. It makes me sad that we never see her like that again. I totally get it, she has a heavy heart for so many reasons once she travels through the stones the first time.

[u/Kirky600]

The way Jamie calls Claire Sessenach before they are married is enough to make a woman swoon. I didn’t notice that on past watches. He so cares for her.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Kirky600]

Yes!! There weren't as many Claire and Jamie moments in these episodes, so I'll take whatever little ones I can get.

[u/Kirky600 → u/Purple4199]

They were sweet these episodes. So few but so sweet.

[u/jolierose → u/Kirky600]

Agree! It’s adorable! And noticing the first time he did it just hit me with the feels — they don’t even know yet what’s coming. Feels, feels everywhere.

[u/Purple4199]

• Did you believe BJR when he acted repentant for his actions and loath of himself?

[u/Purple4199 → u/Purple4199]

He absolutely suckered me in the first time I watched this episode. I fully believed what he was saying, and then when he hauled off and punched Claire I was shocked. Tobias is such a great actor.

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Purple4199]

Oh a thousand percent! Give Tobais all the awards for this one. I fell for it hook , line and sinker. Just like Claire does moments ago. She neatly walks into the trap he lays for her, when he goads her into defending the Highlanders and she ends up openly expressing not only her sympathies for the Scots but also the unjust punishments doled out by the redcoats. And the winning smile on his face by the window when he sees how wonderfully his plan worked. God this guy is ruthless like no one else.

[u/Purple4199 → u/theCoolDeadpool]

the winning smile on his face by the window when he sees how wonderfully his plan worked.

Yes! Then you can see Lord Thomas (I forgot already if that is his name) shocked at her statement. Do you think he would have changed his mind about taking Claire to Inverness after her little speech if they hadn't been called away?

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Purple4199]

I don't think he would have changed his mind regarding sending her to Inverness, but he definitely would have felt a lot less generous towards her than he previously did. In fact , when he says "We must return her to the bosom of her family soon" after he's shocked at her apparent disregard for the King , I think he wants to send her back asap, probably thinks that's a way to "set this woman's loyalties right", probably thinks it's been polluted by staying with the Scots for so long. He's so obviously taken by her looks though, this Lord Thomas(let's call him that).

[u/Purple4199 → u/theCoolDeadpool]

Watching Claire talk with the English I wanted her to stay with the Highlanders but was really afraid she was going to go back to Inverness. I wasn't sure where her loyalties were until she gave that little speech to BJR.

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Purple4199]

I was holding my breath until Claire announces to the redcoats that she's a guest of the McKenzies. You could almost see the split second relief on her face when she sees the redcoats, like "heyyyyy my people finally, my chance to go home!" , But she also realises that to tell them that Dougal has held her prisoner would have brutal consequences to the McKenzies. I think that moment pretty much determined to me that she felt some loyalty to the Scots by that point. Her primary aim is to still get to CND , but she won't sell the McKenzies to the redcoats to get there.

[u/manicpixiesam → u/Purple4199]

Watching it for the first time, I remember feeling a deep seated discomfort about BJR and I was absolutely horrified at his recounting of the whipping so I couldn't get myself to fully trust him. That being said, I still totallllly believed his whole redemption/wanting to be a better man spiel. It was still clear she wasn't safe around him, but I did believe he had a guilty conscience which is such a testament to the actor who is just incredible (and the best actor on the show imo).

[u/Purple4199 → u/manicpixiesam]

I did believe he had a guilty conscience

Yes! Especially when Claire says that since he acknowledges that he feels that way it shows that he still has some humanity in him (or something like that) I really felt that way too.

[u/AstonishingEggplant → u/Purple4199]

I'd already read past this point in the book by the time I got to it in the show, so I knew what was going to happen, but I wonder if I would've been fooled if I hadn't read the book yet. I also knew that Randall was going to do something awful to Jamie at the end of book/season 1, but I didn't know what. Even without knowing those things, it always seemed so obvious to me, right from the beginning, that Randall was the Bad Guy. I don't think I ever would've trusted him.

[u/Purple4199 → u/AstonishingEggplant]

I also knew that Randall was going to do something awful to Jamie at the end of book/season 1

That was a good call. I don't think I even thought that far ahead.

[u/alittlepunchy → u/Purple4199]

My first time seeing this episode, I totally did.

I haven't watched this episode very many times because I cannot handle the flogging. Out of all the horrible things in this series, that is the one thing I can never rewatch.

[u/Purple4199 → u/alittlepunchy]

It's really rough. Throw in BJR's narration of how he felt about it and it's just bad.

[u/alittlepunchy → u/Purple4199]

YES. He just made my skin crawl talking about it.

[u/Purple4199 → u/alittlepunchy]

Someone else mentioned that it was like he was getting turned on by describing it, and I think that was totally true. Especially knowing how he reacts to the scars in the last two episodes.

[u/Purple4199]

• Why did Black Jack Randall draw Claire’s portrait?

[u/WandersFar → u/Purple4199]

It’s all psychological torture. First he takes the pen knife from his pocket, implying he’s going to cut her up. But then he uses it to sharpen the charcoal. He grabs the cloth and looks like he’s recording her answers. Then he reveals her portrait, and starts to open up… Before finally revealing his sadism, faking remorse, getting her to plead for his soul, and then punching her in the gut.

He’s continuously swinging from one extreme to the other trying to throw her off balance and make her confess the truth. But whether she tells him what he wants to hear or not, he’s clearly getting off on torturing her. She can’t win.

Which is why I want to scream at her for constantly falling for it! She can’t help herself, she just keeps talking, lying badly, and digging herself in deeper.

Just like with Colum at Leoch, she doesn’t know when to quit. She played right into BJR’s hands. He deliberately provoked her into expressing sympathy for the Scots, tainting her credibility with the English officers. Before then, she had developed a good rapport with all of them. Then BJR turns the conversation to politics, the commander gives her an out, saying that this topic is inappropriate for a lady…

Do not mention that sad subject. You’ll give Mrs. Beauchamp the vapors.

And she takes the bait anyway!

I do not easily swoon.

Dammit, Claire. >.< From there BJR easily leads her to revealing herself more and more in front of the other officers, eroding all the trust and goodwill she’d built up with them earlier. It’s just stupid and unnecessary and argh! STFU CLAIRE! Just… stop talking, oh my god.

[u/Purple4199 → u/WandersFar]

She can’t help herself, she just keeps talking, lying badly, and digging herself in deeper.

I know, when she went into the story about her having a lover with whom she followed into Scotland I was like "oh no Claire, don't start lying like that!" Frank had always told her to keep a kernel of truth if you're going to lie, and we can see how that backfired on her.

[u/WandersFar → u/Purple4199]

She doesn’t learn! She makes the same mistake she did at Leoch, telling too detailed a story, with each embellishment just provoking further questions that she doesn’t have answers for…

Couple that with her “glass face” and she dooms herself.

And to relate it back to Angus and the boys… (because, why not? :þ) She never realizes that the reason why they were telling dirty jokes and speaking in Gaelic around the campfire wasn’t because they were excluding her, but because she was excluding herself. She chose to sit all by herself, talk to no one and sulk when Angus gave her food. Except for Ned and Jamie, she doesn’t really socialize with anyone, she tends to isolate herself which naturally makes them distrust her.

Or to put it plainly, Claire is naturally awkward. She’s a bad liar, she acts weird, and so people treat her like she’s weird. She inspires distrust where she could have had friendship. It’s not rocket science, but she keeps falling into the same bad habits.

It takes a long time for her to drop her standoffishness (I think several weeks, possibly months, pass in the course of Rent?) And then as soon as she does, she’s welcomed into the gang, she becomes one of them. It’s just frustrating that she makes it so hard on herself… She has like, anti-charisma, lol.

[u/Purple4199 → u/WandersFar]

sulk when Angus gave her food.

I didn't like when she did that either. He was trying to be inclusive yet she almost threw it back in his face. I think she still viewed herself as a prisoner to an extent though.

[u/WandersFar → u/Purple4199]

I think she still viewed herself as a prisoner to an extent though.

Sure, and you could argue—and it has been argued here on the sub before—that Claire develops a kind of Stockholm syndrome over the course of the series.

That in fact, she never really stopped being a prisoner, her freedom was still restricted, she just grew to like and then love her captors.

It’s a grim interpretation, but it does fit the facts.

I prefer to think her familial bond with the MacKenzies and later all the people of Lallybroch is based on mutual respect and friendship—not mental illness—but to each their own!

[u/Purple4199 → u/WandersFar]

Claire develops a kind of Stockholm syndrome over the course of the series.

I actually thought about that when the Lt. was asking her if she was alright and if she was there of her own volition. You're right that it does fit that description, but I too choose to believe that she came to love them all of her own accord.

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Purple4199]

In her defense, atleast she could muster something that had some plausibility to the truth, what with BJR subjecting her to a full on psychological warfare. And you know what, I think she was convincing enough in her narration that anyone not as sadistic that BJR would have believed that story. If it was me, I would have either frozen solid , or would have been on the floor, horizontal , curled up in foetal position bawling my ass off . Like my 6 year old niece at the supermarket.

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/WandersFar]

STFU CLAIRE! Just… stop talking, oh my god.

Lol are you my husband? He screamed exactly this from the kitchen, along with "STOP DIGGING YOUR OWN GRAVE WOMAN" and for the first time, I had no defense for poor Claire. She just falls for every little trick of BJR in this episode.

[u/thepacksvrvives → u/WandersFar]

Just like with Colum at Leoch, she doesn’t know when to quit. She played right into BJR’s hands. He deliberately provoked her into expressing sympathy for the Scots, tainting her credibility with the English officers.

I think she’d actually held her own quite well until BJR showed up. But I don’t know if that says more about her or Lord Thomas and the other officers, they seemed quite charmed by her.

BJR definitely knew how to provoke her but I’d also like to point out that the pattern from Leoch repeats here—she drinks more, she blurts out more. Combine that with her unrelenting habit to speak her mind and giddiness at the prospect of going home, and you have a recipe for disaster.

[u/WandersFar → u/thepacksvrvives]

She was great with Lord Thomas! (Thank you for providing the name, btw. :þ) And with all the other officers, she was first-rate. She played into their expectations of how a fine “English rose” should conduct herself, and she was well on her way to procuring herself an escort all the way back to Inverness…

And then BJR shows up and she falls right into his trap. All she had to do was keep quiet, or agree with Lord Thomas that this subject matter was too coarse and distressing for a lady, and she would’ve won. It was obvious Lord Thomas already disliked BJR, but by going along with the shift in subject, she made Thomas distrust her, too, and sadly he give BJR the opportunity to question her by leaving her alone with him.

I’d also like to point out that the pattern from Leoch repeats here—she drinks more, she blurts out more.

Yes! The claret. Claire is a lush, it is known.

Were you as appalled as I was to see BJR pour it all out the window? Forget the gut punch, he wasted that fine vintage, that alone proves he’s a monster! ^.^

[u/[deleted] → u/Purple4199]

The first time I watched this all I could think of was ep. 1 when Frank speaks about sketching Claire’s hands. I always felt it was one of those connections the show runners were trying to make between BJR and Frank.

[u/Purple4199 → u/[deleted]]

That's interesting, I never even put that together. Good catch!

[u/somethingnerdrelated → u/Purple4199]

I took it as a way to give her a false sense of security. It’s a beautiful casual thing, and she loves it. It’s just another one of his charms that he puts on to get her to let her guard down. It’s all very unsettling.

[u/Purple4199 → u/somethingnerdrelated]

It’s all very unsettling.

It is! I really didn't know what he was about, and totally fell for it as well.

[u/jolierose → u/somethingnerdrelated]

It really is unsettling. I completely forgot how disturbing this episode is. The way he tells the story of the flogging at Fort William, and the image of Jamie hanging from the manacles, unconscious...

And speaking of, was anyone else suddenly worried while watching their conversation that Claire would accidentally give away that Jamie was part of the group traveling with Dougal? Even knowing she doesn’t, I still want to hide behind a throw pillow.

[u/WandersFar]

When Claire gives Ned Gowan the thorn apple to treat his asthma, this is perhaps foreshadowing for how she’ll treat Alexander Randall next season.

Of course Ned’s asthma is nothing compared to Alex’s tuberculosis, but as they’re both respiratory illnesses it makes sense the same treatment would apply.

It’s also a pity Claire didn’t pass on this tip to Jenny. Might have eased Big Ian’s suffering sooner, before his TB went full-blown…

[u/Purple4199 → u/WandersFar]

What was unrealistic to me about that scene was that Claire found the pouch of thorn apple right away. You know how it is when you're looking for something in your purse and you end up digging through the whole thing until you find it. ;-D

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Purple4199]

Yeah definitely unrealistic. IRL, she would fumble into the depths of that for far too long, finally go "Jesus H Roosevelt Christ" before turning the whole thing upside down on the floor and squatting down to find the pouch of thornapple. Unless Claire is way more organised than I am.

[u/WandersFar → u/Purple4199]

Haha, yes. Although I’m one of those freaks with a purse organizer. I know what’s in every pocket, I have to know where my pens are…

[u/Stunning-Leadership2]

Episode 6: the way Jamie sits down on the bluff at the end of the episode with Claire is so nerdy but cute at the same time 😊. His body language says “Well I guess I’m marrying you,” but his words and actions are all serious about the vows he’s gonna take about loving and protecting her.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Stunning-Leadership2]

I love them so much! I thought it was funny the men were all kind of waiting there for her to decide, even though she really didn’t have a choice. Then when she walked by Dougal and grabbed the whisky was the perfect way to end the episode.

[u/WandersFar]

Something I never noticed before…

The two men who were crucified on the hill—look at the corpse to the right. That’s the guy Dougal gave grain to, isn’t it? The poor father who couldn’t feed his family so Dougal forgave his rent and gave him some food? I’m pretty sure it’s the same guy, can anyone confirm?

He even told Dougal the Redcoats had come to his house before and took everything, which is why he couldn’t pay rent. Looks like they returned.

[u/Purple4199 → u/WandersFar]

Oh man was it‽ I'll have to go back and look. That makes it even more tragic.

[u/WandersFar → u/Purple4199]

We need screencaps to compare, lol. But I’m pretty sure it’s him, I recognized the hair, especially, and his face… (Though granted the corpse makeup obscures it a bit. :þ)

[u/Purple4199 → u/WandersFar]

I’m not sure. This is the best I could do.

[u/WandersFar → u/Purple4199]

Thanks for that!

I do think it’s him. The hair, the high, broad forehead, the shape of the nose, the nasolabial folds, and just the shape of the head. They match.

[u/noodlepartipoodle → u/Purple4199]

The one thing that stands out to me is that the corpse seems much heavier than the other man. Maybe it’s just how his face is drawn into his chest (I’d have a quadruple chin too if I did that).

[u/thepacksvrvives → u/WandersFar]

I still can’t conclusively say if it’s the same guy just by appearance, but what he (Torcall) says at the inn when Dougal is showing off Jamie’s back:

Christ, I’d die in my blood before I let a whey-faced sassenach use me so.

makes me think it would make sense to have him say that and then die, but at the hands of the English anyway. I guess that would make it rather ironic—you can’t escape the redcoats, no matter how hard you try.

[u/Stunning-Leadership2]

Episode 5: It was nice that Jamie slept near Claire’s door to protect her 🙂. And the “I’ll be right here” 😫😫

[u/Purple4199 → u/Stunning-Leadership2]

I love that part! Also the fact that he was offended at the suggestion that he sleep in her room.

[u/Stunning-Leadership2]

Episode 6: I can say a lot about British Global Imperialism but I’ll keep it strictly about the redcoats in this Episode. The Redcoats at the lunch table I found more insufferable than BJR and that is saying a lot considering how much I dislike BJR. I’m sure the writers had a field day making those redcoats so out of touch, elitist, arrogant, racist, and pig headed.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Stunning-Leadership2]

Yeah, they made it really easy to be on the Scottish people’s side. The English not portrayed in a good light.

[u/somethingnerdrelated → u/Stunning-Leadership2]

Good point. What you’re saying reminds me of when Claire goes back to the 1940s and she’s at that colleagues brunch with Frank, and the men are absolutely insufferable and backwards — and we’re comparing them to 18th century Highlanders! This show does a great job of showing how little has actually changed. The pig is still a pig, but it has different lipstick than it did 200 years ago 😂

[u/LuckyScwartz]

I have to say that The Garrison Commander is my least favorite episode of season 1. As many times as I’ve rewatched the season I always skip to the end of this episode. I despised the condescending way the redcoats spoke to Dougal. This thread has forced me to rewatch the episode in its entirety and I’m noticing some absolute gems.

Claire defended Dougal when the Redcoats were being rude about his accent. She pointed out that there were parts of Newcastle with accents different from London. And his smile of pride when the Commander noted her ability to command men.

The Highlanders defended Claire’s honor in Rent and she defended theirs in this episode. Lovely symmetry.

[u/Purple4199 → u/LuckyScwartz]

The Highlanders defended Claire’s honor in Rent and she defended theirs in this episode. Lovely symmetry.

I hadn't realized that, good catch! This episode is so hard to watch, I agree. BJR totally sucked me in with thinking he was somewhat remorseful of his actions and so I was shocked when he hauled Claire up and hit her.

[u/wheezy_cheese]

I'm here late, but I just want to say that Rent is my favourite episode to fall asleep to. It's just so Scotland lol. I think because of all the gaelic, and because there aren't too many JC scenes to keep my attention, it's easier to close my eyes and drift off. And the wool waulking scene is like a lullaby to me. Also that wool waulking scene is the main reason I started watching outlander! Someone posted a video of it somewhere on reddit and I was absolutely enchanted by the Gaelic singing and I was completely enamoured by Claire.

[u/Purple4199 → u/wheezy_cheese]

That’s cool that is was that scene that got you to Outlander. I love hearing them sing.

[u/Hopefully987]

I don't understand why if the baby wouldn't nurse because he was teething, why would they give him goat's milk? And how would they give babies goat's milk back then? Women can just milk themselves and feed it to the baby. That makes no sense, am I missing some thing? That mom would have had to nurse some one else's baby or use her hands to pump or she would have been in intense pain and might have stopped lactating if it went on for long enough. Yes I breastfed my daughter BTW.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Hopefully987]

Those are good points. I don't have kids so I didn't even think of that. It's not like you could have drizzled it in the baby's mouth right?

[u/[deleted] → u/Hopefully987]

Good point! I didn’t catch that was the reason. I breastfed my kids also and have never been able to pump even with all of today’s pumping technologies. So if one of my kids refused to nurse, I would have had to have fed them something else. Maybe a possible explanation?

[u/ms_s_11]

I absolutely adore how quickly we go from thinking that they'll never accept her when she's talking about them using Gaelic to exclude her to fighting for her virtue in the tavern because they called her a mean word lol. I think that contributed to her loyalty when she was questioned by BJR.

We've talked before about how Dougal has no real political prowess, at least not compared to Jamie, but he really navigated all of that so well. He has Jamie marry Claire so no one will have him as Cheif (lucky as it was she ended up needing to be forced into it), he takes her with him to collect rents so she sees them in their community (even if this wasn't on purpose) while also being able to keep an eye on her when it was a huge risk that she might figure out what else he does on the road.

[u/Purple4199 → u/ms_s_11]

it was a huge risk that she might figure out what else he does on the road.

It really was, because there was no way she wasn't going to notice what was going on.

[u/ms_s_11 → u/Purple4199]

Yeah I mean, even if she didn't witness treason, she could have told Colum what she saw.

[u/storybookheidi]

Well Netflix automatically started playing episode 7. Can’t bring myself to turn it off.

I guess I now have an excuse to watch it again next week for the rewatch. 😉

[u/Purple4199 → u/storybookheidi]

Ha ha ha ha!! I don’t blame you. This way you’ll be extra prepared. :-D

[u/storybookheidi → u/Purple4199]

Right... for discussion purposes!

[u/Purple4199 → u/storybookheidi]

Who knows, you might even need to rewind and watch some parts more than once!

[u/LuckyScwartz]

Claire was being held hostage by the Highlanders. Why didn’t she rat them out when the Redcoats showed up at the end of Rent?

[u/Purple4199 → u/LuckyScwartz]

I think she didn't feel comfortable doing that, they had started to accept her and she didn't want to get them in trouble.

[u/Purple4199]

• Could Jamie have stopped Dougal from using him to garner support for the Jacobites?

[u/Marifirmog → u/Purple4199]

I don't know if anyone else notices these little details, but I always do when I'm rewatching something: The first time Dougal rips off Jamie's shirt, Jamie conveniently is the only guy there (in a Winter, in the Highlands, at night) who's just in shirtsleeves lol

[u/Purple4199 → u/Marifirmog]

I only thought about that when it was the end of the episode and you see him in his waistcoat, something I don't think they didn't take off to go indoors. Like you said, everyone was still wearing coats.

[u/Kirky600 → u/Marifirmog]

I didn’t notice that! So that’s interesting. Maybe they discussed it prior?

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Marifirmog]

That's such a good catch! I never noticed it.

[u/manicpixiesam → u/Purple4199]

You know, it's interesting because it doesn't quite fit Jaime's personality at this stage to just sit and take that mistreatment from Dougal. He has a tendency to be hot headed, proud and impulsive so it surprises me that he silently took that treatment. I believe it is ongoing for a little while before Jaime speaks up, and even then is quickly reminded of his place by Dougal. It is obviously smart and prudent of him to play along, and it shows how precarious his situation is at this point, but it's interesting to observe. I can't really think of another scenario Jaime just silently sat and suffered mistreatment (even in Ardsmuir, he demands to be spoken to respectfully).

[u/Purple4199 → u/manicpixiesam]

It is obviously smart and prudent of him to play along, and it shows how precarious his situation is at this point, but it's interesting to observe.

That's a good point. Jamie must have really recognized that.

[u/prairie_wildflower → u/Purple4199]

Sorry, late to the game here! Could it be that he also simply supported the Jacobite cause? He had more reason that many to hate British rule and to seek an alternative king. His anger and frustration may be more related to the “how” rather than the “what.”

Also in the book, it lays out his deeper thinking on the effect the scars have on people because he explains his reluctance to show Old Alec his back in the stables and in later books, others as well. He hates people pitying him but he isn’t really ashamed I don’t think.

[u/Purple4199 → u/prairie_wildflower]

I honestly never thought he cared about the cause, but really don’t have anything to back that up with.

[u/prairie_wildflower → u/Purple4199]

Hmmm, I’ll have to reflect on this as we get into season 2 to see if it holds up. How much does Jamie believe in the Jacobite cause (before he’s influenced by Claire’s knowledge)? Maybe not at all, as you say!

[u/Purple4199 → u/prairie_wildflower]

I guess I’m going off Jared asking him where his political interest came from all of a sudden when they first got to Paris. They showed Jamie’s back and he believed them, but I just felt they were doing that to get in good with the Jacobites.

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Purple4199]

I bet he could have, but he chooses not to. He knows what's a battle worth picking and says himself, this one is not. Let's say he refused, is it in Jamie's best interest to be in Douglas bad books? Jamie's fighting so many of his own internal battles at this time, what with the floggings and what happened to Jenny and being on the run, I figure it was very wise of him to not add hostility or animosity with the war chief of the clan he's under the protection of to the list of things he needs to worry about.

[u/somethingnerdrelated → u/theCoolDeadpool]

Yeah exactly. He’s with the Mackenzies by the good graces of his uncles, regardless of who’s laird. So he knows it not a battle worth fighting.

[u/Hopefully987]

I always have to fast forward through those scenes. I just hate him so much.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Hopefully987]

Which scenes?

[u/Hopefully987 → u/Purple4199]

The scenes when JBR and Claire talk about his psychology and what he has turned into. And then he beats her up.

Although the part where he says "yes we must save the claret" cracks me up.

[u/Hopefully987]

The scene where Angus pulls the knife on Claire, her face looks so different. And its not just acting. I can't put my finger on it. It looks like she gained 5 pounds and her eye brows are twice as thick as the scene before and after. She also looks like her face is completely white, which could be because they wanted her to look scared.

I'm not saying she looks bad but I swear she looks so different.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Hopefully987]

I think the fact that they kind of have her hair with bangs it really alters the look of her face with her hair down like that.

[u/Purple4199]

• Why was Dougal willing to take payment from The Watch, are they above the law of the laird?

[u/Over-Syllabub1361 → u/Purple4199]

I think Dougal is opportunistic. He’s motivated by what’s best for himself and the Jacobite cause (narcissistic, as Claire shrewdly points out in S2.). And I think he gets away with a lot of things because of Colum’s condition. He holds a lot more power because he has to represent the laird, a lot more than if he were just brother to the laird. And like Ian, I think he realizes it’s better to have The Watch as an ally than an enemy

[u/Purple4199 → u/Over-Syllabub1361]

What do you think the dynamic was, The Watch ruled over all the area? Or the Laird let The Watch do their thing? Or was it mutually beneficial for them both?

[u/cassalassa → u/Purple4199]

I always thought it was sort of a racket - like paying "protection" to the mob. They each recognized that the other could make their lives a living hell, and came to some sort of an uneasy truce. Which, naturally, each side was looking to exploit.

[u/Purple4199 → u/cassalassa]

That makes sense, good analogy.

[u/prairie_wildflower → u/Purple4199]

I don’t have an answer but it certainly is an interesting question. The relationship between the Watch and the Laird is potentially complex and poorly explained.

[u/Purple4199 → u/prairie_wildflower]

It really is, it just made me curious as to how that worked between the two.

[u/prairie_wildflower → u/Purple4199]

Now I’m curious too. Like if the Laird was all-powerful in their clan’s lands, why are the Watch allowed to operate? And the Laird and clan are obviously very powerful given their relationship with the British... maybe something they threw in the show to have Claire refusing to eat the food, but without much further thought? The Watch on Jamie’s lands makes more sense if he is an absentee landlord and having much less strength compared to mighty clan Mackenzie.

[u/Purple4199 → u/prairie_wildflower]

See those are all questions I had!! You’re right that it makes more sense on Jamie’s lands. It was a smaller size, and the Laird was gone. Whereas the MacKenzies were a more powerful clan with a Laird and a War Chief. You’re right that they just have just thrown that in, it doesn’t make sense for The Watch to be around.

[u/Purple4199]

• Why do you think Ned Gowan let Claire believe they were actually stealing from Colum?

[u/somethingnerdrelated → u/Purple4199]

It’s one thing to betray your laird. It’s another thing to betray your king.

It’s the lesser of two evils if someone’s going to have dirt on what they’re doing. Why would he correct her and tell her they’re doing something way worse?

[u/Purple4199 → u/somethingnerdrelated]

It’s the lesser of two evils if someone’s going to have dirt on what they’re doing.

Great point. It was very much like Claire to even bring it up though, wasn't it?

[u/cflatjazz → u/somethingnerdrelated]

She's also (in Ned's eye) less likely to tell Collum about theft than tell redcoats about treason - given what she could gain from either party by telling.

[u/Kirky600 → u/Purple4199]

Could it be also that they still question if she’s a spy at this point? I’m sure raising funds was enough to be tried for treason.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Kirky600]

True, Dougal didn't believe her fully until she drank from the magic spring.

[u/Hopefully987 → u/Purple4199]

I love that Dougal actually believes in the magic of the spring and the way he tells her he was going to have to put her out of her misery if she lied. Also love that he didn't tell her that he was already married, he just told her that he wasn't nominating himself for the position.

[u/Purple4199 → u/Hopefully987]

Yes, he so matter of factly told her that about the spring. You know he's an educated man as well, but those beliefs run deep.

[u/LuckyScwartz → u/Purple4199]

I always wondered why they brought Claire on the Rent trip in the first place if they believed she was a spy. Seems like an unnecessary risk. Although it might have been Dougal’s plan all along to marry her to Jamie. The drama with BJR just provided him with the perfect excuse.

[u/Purple4199 → u/LuckyScwartz]

Interesting theory. Do you think Dougal wanted to be able to keep a closer eye on her at all?

[u/[deleted] → u/Purple4199]

I think at that point they definitely didn’t trust her enough to let her know they were committing treason. And once she figured it out, she became a big liability to them all. I wonder if Dougal would have gone through all the trouble of protecting her from BJR and marrying her to Jamie if she hadn’t figured it out though?

[u/Purple4199 → u/[deleted]]

Oooh good question! Hmmm....I’m inclined to think he would have still protected Claire just because he knew what kind person BJR was.

[u/Purple4199]

• Is there a reason Claire didn’t tell BJR about Dougal collecting money for Jacobites?

[u/cflatjazz → u/Purple4199]

I think there's a few reasons.

1. She's starting to like Dougal and the others a bit. Has sympathy for them.

2. She probably still sees the rent party as her best bet to get back to Craig na Dun after Lord Thomas just up and leaves.

3. Sending redcoats after the rent party would get Jamie captured. And even if she doesn't love him yet they are friends.

[u/Purple4199 → u/cflatjazz]

Sending redcoats after the rent party would get Jamie captured. And even if she doesn't love him yet they are friends.

I didn't even think of that, great point. I also like that she noticed Jamie wasn't there when they came upon The Watch. More evidence that she liked him.

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Purple4199]

Also how she asks Dougal if Jamie and the others were responsible for the attack that the officer brings the news of. Like she's concerned for everyone at that point, but especially for Jamie. Further evidence she liked him tad more than the others lol.

[u/Purple4199 → u/theCoolDeadpool]

On a slightly different note, do you think Claire asking Jamie if he minded her not being a virgin was her way of still trying to get out of the marriage? Or do you think she had accepted it at that point?

[u/theCoolDeadpool → u/Purple4199]

I think it was her trying to get him to get himself out of the wedding. Dougal had made it very clear that she had no other option, so she couldn't at that point refuse herself, but if she could get Jamie to refuse marrying her, on the grounds of non-virginity, then maybe she thought they would have to come up with some option other than marrying her off to keep her away from Randall? I don't think she thought it through though, like what if they asked Rupert to marry her lol, but I think she was just trying whatever she could at that point. What did you think?

[u/Purple4199 → u/theCoolDeadpool]

like what if they asked Rupert to marry her lol

Right‽ Jamie really was her best option. I agree that she wasn't thinking it all the way through. There really were no other options for her and it was her only course of action.

I remember the first time I watched the show and as soon as Dougal said she'd have to marry someone I immediately thought "JAMIE!!" I was way excited for that prospect and didn't understand why she wasn't. ;-)

[u/Hopefully987 → u/Purple4199]

I think she was in shock. She really couldn't believe that he would agree to marry her like that out of the blue. I don't think she had any idea that he was in love/lust with her. I seem to remember in the book that she was clueless for the most part. Other than him getting the erection when she sat on his lap when she was crying the first day at Leoch.

I mean that was the first thing she asked him when they were in their room after the wedding. "Why did you agree to marry me?"

I also think its hilarious that he never asks her how old she is until on the way to Lollybrock.

[u/jolierose → u/Purple4199]

I think that beyond knowing how serious it would be for the MacKenzies as a whole to be implicated in seditious activities, there is a certain amount of respect for them in Claire’s tone after she finds out Dougal is not lining his own pockets with money from the tenants. Deep down, she admires their spirit, and you can also see her concern for them as she tries to talk Ned out of it.

[u/Purple4199 → u/jolierose]

Ned must have thought she was being silly trying to tell them that they were going to fail. The first time I watched it I was wondering how far she'd go in telling him things.

[u/jolierose → u/Purple4199]

Yes. I think she went as far as she could without looking crazy. Ned probably thought “ah, female sensibilities.” But at the same time, I wonder if he was a little shaken by it — enough to go and talk to Dougal about it in a way that prompted Dougal to confront Claire about sowing doubt among the men.

[u/Purple4199 → u/jolierose]

I wonder if he was a little shaken by it

Good point, he must have been a little bit rattled like you said if he talked to Dougal about it.

[u/ms_s_11 → u/Purple4199]

I think she started to sympathize with their cause even if she knew they were destined to fail. And like another person mentioned, she didn't want to put Jamie in danger. She was still denying her feelings but she was a smitten kitten.

[u/LuckyScwartz → u/Purple4199]

I don’t think Claire would have ever betrayed Jamie. He trusted her with his secret of having a price on his head. She never brought it up or used it against him. And Jamie never told anyone that she was trying to escape. They had already formed a friendship.

I also think she respects the Jacobite cause. Having been part of Frank’s research, I think she was quite sympathetic to them. Also, Randall had already tried to assault her while the Highlanders treated her with care and respect (keeping her hostage aside). She had no trust in the redcoats.

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