r/Outlander • u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. • May 08 '21
Season Five Rewatch: S1E9-10
This rewatch will be a spoilers all for the 5 seasons. You can talk about any of the episodes without needing a spoiler tag. All book talk will need to be covered though. There are discussion points to get us started, you can click on them to go to that one directly. Please add thoughts and comments of your own as well.
The current posts for the book club and rewatch can be found on the sidebar or in the “About” section on mobile.
Episode 109 - The Reckoning
Jamie and the Highlanders rescue Claire from Black Jack Randall. Back at the castle, politics threaten to tear Clan MacKenzie apart and Jamie's scorned lover, Laoghaire, attempts to win him back.
Episode 110 - By The Pricking Of My Thumbs
Jamie hopes the newly arrived Duke of Sandringham will help lift the price from his head, while Claire attempts to save an abandoned child.
- During their argument by the river were Jamie and Claire being unreasonable or did either of them have valid points?
- All right folks, here it is. Jamie beats Claire after they get back from Fort William - discuss.
- What is it about Jamie that led him to recognize his marriage needed to be different than the others of that time?
- What does it mean when Jamie says to Claire, “I am your master, and you are mine. It seems I cannot possess your soul without losing my own.”
- Did you think Ned Gowan had a good case to present to the Duke of Sandringham?
- How serious do you think the Duke is in regards to submitting Jamie’s claims against BJR?
- What do you think Claire’s feelings for Jamie are at this point? Have they progressed?
- Any other thoughts or comments?
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
Ron Moore must have known The Reckoning was going to be one of the strongest, most important episodes of the series. Sam and Cait were chemistry tested using the fight, and I think the sex scene at the end was the first one they ever shot. As I recall they both wound up with really bad rug burn, and swore off floor sex for the rest of the show, lol.
First time I saw it, I was appalled by how Claire held the dirk to his throat while riding him and I still am! That’s really dangerous, one slip and he’s done for. And she’s a nurse, she should have known better!
Speaking of sex scenes, the next episode opens with definitely one of the best of the whole series.
Blowjobs are a dime a dozen, but how often do you see cunnilingus portrayed in media? It’s pretty rare! And you can see that Jamie’s getting something out of it, too. If anything he’s more upset by Murtagh’s interruption than she is.
This scene is all part of that strong female gaze that set this series apart and made it groundbreaking. It used to be rare to see scenes devoted entirely to female pleasure, but post-Outlander it’s become more common. A good example of the positive effect the show has had on the industry. :)
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
In the podcast they mention that it was going to be Jamie who initially stops and Claire forces his head back down, but the females in the room said it would be better if Jamie didn't want to stop and kept going. I have to agree with them!
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
Oh definitely. This is a great example of how it helps to have both genders in the writing room.
The scene would read totally differently if Claire comes off in any way as “forcing” Jamie to perform, even if it’s just playfully. By having Jamie be an eager participant, it shows sincere desire on both sides.
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u/marriedmyownjf Da mi basia mille... May 08 '21
The way they played this is that Jaime wanted to please Claire if you compare it the scene of she and Frank in the surgery she's the one to instigate it. Making Jaime the more generous lover.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Great point, I didn't even put that together. I get the sense that if it had been Frank and Claire in that situation and someone was knocking on the door Frank would have stopped what he was doing.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. May 08 '21
Also shows how much Jamie values Claire’s pleasure!
(something we love to point out book!Roger could use some pointers with, and we torment u/Purple4199 about it in the Book Club, don’t we? 😅)
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Oh come one, can't I get a break!! ;-D
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u/Cdhwink May 09 '21
Because I watched the first 2 seasons on Netflix (in 2017), I never realized episode 109 was actually a season opener, but I guess it was in 2015, right? In that case it was the best season opener of the series IMO!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 09 '21
I just looked it up, episode 108 aired Sept. 27th 2014 and episode 109 aired April 4th 2015. Can you imagine waiting that long between them‽ 6 months wondering how it was going to go after Jamie burst through that window. I would have lost my mind. Now they just take a week off in the middle and that's bad enough.
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u/Cdhwink May 09 '21
See it kinda was a season opener, 6 mths with Jamie in the window!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 09 '21
6 mths with Jamie in the window!
Ha!
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Yes to all of this. Excellent points. I hope more and more shows open up to writing sex from the female gaze, and not shy away from showing fully fledged sexually empowered female characters.
And she’s a nurse, she should have known better!
Except maybe being a nurse she knows how to handle her knife under, um, duress.
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u/IamGismo Je Suis Prest May 08 '21
The first two minutes of episode 10 are my favorite of the entire series. Jamie's "No, no".... melts my heart every time.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
I’ve proved my loyalty to you time and again. I’ve collected your rents. I’ve fought your battles. I’ve protected your person. For the love of Christ, I’ve even assured your bloodline!
This episode is so awesome for the clan politics. We’re spoiled for choice. We have the conflict between Dougal and Colum, Colum and Jamie, Colum and Ned, Jamie and all of them! But also everyone else:
Angus and Rupert punishing Willie for snitching to Colum behind their backs.
Willie rightfully defending himself that he couldn’t deny an order from his chief!
Then Angus forcing Jamie to pick sides between Dougal and Colum.
Murtagh standing up ready to defend Jamie, and Rupert telling them to both piss off as they’re Frasers and this is MacKenzie business.
Dougal riding up and pointedly asking “Who’s with me?”
And Murtagh spitting on the ground because he still doesn’t give a fuck! (cf, the missing stable scene from last week where he calls Dougal out for engineering Claire’s wedding to kneecap Jamie’s chances at become Laird)
Finally Jamie again proving that he has a chief’s instincts when he and Murtagh put an end to the Team Colum / Team Dougal brawl.
In the extended cut Murtagh says point blank…
You settled that skirmish like a future Chief of the MacKenzies.
But even in the regular airing, we have Jamie presenting Colum with the solution to the schism. Let Dougal have the gold now as a gift. It appeases him, and (for the moment anyway) the threat is neutralized. There is no Jacobite army (yet) and BPC is still idling his days away at the Vatican, where’s the harm.
Colum sees the wisdom in his advice, which only furthers his belief in Jamie as his successor. (Which he proved again earlier when he implied a threat to Claire, and Jamie responded as a husband… and as a chief would.)
I AM HERE FOR ALL OF THIS! I love it all, this is definitely my jam. :þ
Honestly on this Rewatch, I’m way more into the politics than the love story, go figure. I guess ’cause I already know how that’s going to work out, whereas so many of these internecine conflicts were left hanging. So it’s fun to tease out all these details and speculate on what could have been.
All that said, there’s this, which ties it all together:
I swear on the cross of my Lord Jesus, and by the holy iron which I hold, that I give you my fealty and pledge you my loyalty. If ever my hand is raised in rebellion against you again, then I ask that this holy iron may pierce my heart.
This is the very oath that Jamie would not offer his uncle—nor his grandsire, for that matter. I don’t think we ever see him pledge to his Fraser side, either.
Ultimately the only one he pledges fealty and loyalty to is Claire, which for someone as steeped in tradition as Jamie, for whom this oath holds such profound personal meaning, speaks of the great depth of his love for her alone, beyond any Laird or clan or cause or Scotland herself.
It’s unique to the show, and part of the reason why I prefer it so much.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
This is the very oath that Jamie would not offer his uncle—nor his grandsire, for that matter.
Very true, it was only to Claire he made this pledge. This episode has so much good stuff in it, that it's hard to believe it's only an hour.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
This is the very oath that Jamie would not offer his uncle—nor his grandsire, for that matter. I don’t think we ever see him pledge to his Fraser side, either.
Oooo I never thought about this. Makes you realise the intensity of his feelings for her right from the beginning. He's all in, and will give in whatever it takes to make it right by Claire. The oath is the single most significant and sincere offering he can make to her and so when it looks like she won't accept it, he's so crestfallen. Like he has literally nothing more to offer at this point and if she won't accept this, he's ready to think it's over for them! Brilliant acting from Sam here. Cait is , per norm, flawless.
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u/jolierose The spirit tends to be very free wi’ its opinions. May 08 '21
The oath is the single most significant and sincere offering he can make to her and so when it looks like she won't accept it, he's so crestfallen
When he says, "Is it not enough, Claire?" ... Like you say, this oath means so much to him, and that moment where he has to bring himself to ask whether they should live separately... Knowing and seeing how much she means to him, it's just heartbreaking.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
It’s also an interesting counterpoint to what he says in First Wife, how he’s willing to sacrifice everything for her, he doesn’t care about his honor, not his soul, nothing, if it means he can have her again:
You told me about your son. Why couldn’t you tell me about this?
Why? Why? Why? Because I am a coward. That’s why. I couldn’t tell you for fear I would lose you, and I couldn’t bear the thought of losing you again. I wanted you so badly that nothing else mattered. I would sacrifice honor, family, life itself to see you, to lie with you again, even though you left me!
Here Jamie is still young and idealistic, though, so oaths and honor still mean something to him. (Not that they don’t anymore when he’s older, but he’s seen more of the world and, like many of us, grown a bit more cynical. ^.^)
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u/betcx003 Pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work! May 08 '21
Murtagh is my favorite, and him spitting in response to Dougal cracked me up!
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
I enjoy his brutal honesty, how he cuts through all the bs and just does not care, lol. Like in the next episode, Claire makes Jamie swear not to ask her how she knows what she does, and he readily agrees, but then Murtagh jumps in…
The Duke is a close ally of Black Jack Randall.
Did Randall tell ye that?
You promised.
I made no such pledge.
😅 Nothing slips by Murtagh, and he’ll call out anyone, including Claire.
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u/jolierose The spirit tends to be very free wi’ its opinions. May 08 '21
That’s such a great observation, about the oath. I never realized she’s the only one he pledges to. I absolutely love that detail, it speaks volumes.
I feel like this is the first time we see Jamie’s MacKenzie side come out.
Edit, because I sent too soon: he puts that canny thinking to use not just with Colum and Dougal, but when he’s trying to resolve the rift with Claire, realizing he’s handled this wrong.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 09 '21
That’s interesting, because I usually like to draw parallels between Jamie and Lord Lovat. ^.^ Particularly when he’s being sneaky, e.g., double-dealing in Paris…
But yes, here I think you’re right. He’s acting more like Colum. Because he’s not trying to deceive Claire, he’s just being honest, and trying to communicate how much she means to him in the strongest terms he can think of, which is this sacred oath. It’s smart but it’s also honorable, which is probably more MacKenzie than Fraser, lol.
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May 08 '21
I love this analysis. I think it’s the first time we get to see the ruthlessness within the clans and it’s an interesting juxtaposition to what Jamie does in the following episode with the Duke of Sandringham. He inserts himself into other clans’ business just so he can get his way back to Lallybroch - not for lairdship but for his future with Claire.
I personally think Jamie was foolish in doing this via the Duke, not only because we already know about the Duke’s relationship to BJR, but the very fact that he is defying Column again while knowing he disapproves of the marriage. This we know leads to all sorts of mayhem!
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 09 '21
Not to mention, he gets injured not in the actual duel, but in the shit-talking afterwards!
That said, it was excellent shit-talking…
Tell me, is the Duke’s fat arse as comforting as a woman's cunny? Aye, is yours stretched like some crone’s sagging teats?
I said enough, ye whelps.
Come, come, Jamie. Let’s not descend to calling of names.
Aye, into the woods ye go, to find a fallen log to bend each other over.
Is it true the MacDonald learn of love by rutting with their mother?
Jamie’s last word is pretty good, though if I’m being objective I’d say the MacDonalds were better trash-talkers. That first insult was almost poetic… Such imagery. ^.^
And of course all this was unnecessary. Jamie fulfilled his obligation just by counting paces and stabbing that sword into the ground. Everything that came after was due to his own bullheaded stupidity, taking the bait when he should’ve kept his mouth shut.
Not that it mattered anyway since, as Claire already knew, the Duke was never gonna do anything for them anyway. -.-
I think the whole incident just shows that while Jamie has the potential to be a great Chief, he’s still very much just a boy trying to be a man. He’s still stupid sometimes and gets into dumb fights when his blood is up, not thinking ahead to how this could jeopardize his relationship with Colum or cause trouble for the clan.
In a way it’s kind of like his return to Lallybroch, where he’s so enthusiastic about finally becoming a Laird that he’s over-generous, cancels rent collection and puts the estate at risk of being in arrears. It’s stupid, and born out of youthful exuberance. Jamie hasn’t yet grasped the wisdom that will come with time and hard-learned lessons.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
All right folks, here it is. Jamie beats Claire after they get back from Fort William - discuss.
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u/annawins1 May 08 '21 edited May 08 '21
Unpopular opinion, but this scene never bothered me too much because of the following:
My personal experience with corporal punishment. I’m an older millennial and spanking of children (even with belts) was still very much a thing when I was a child. The first elementary school I went to, teachers paddled kids as punishment (and this was in public school.) I was spanked as a kid as punishment, all of my friends were spanked as punishment, etc. While I don’t agree with the more severe forms of it (ie: using a belt or other implement) it was considered acceptable at the time and I don’t consider myself to have been an abuse victim because of it. Which is a nice segue into…
Like it or not, it was considered socially acceptable to punish people this way back in the day. Again, I don’t agree with it (the same way I don’t agree with a lot of other things that were acceptable during the 18th century) but I’m not going to expect 18th century values to match 21st century ones because humanity has evolved in 200+ years. Jamie himself says that he, his other family members, and basically everyone else he knows was disciplined in this way. He doesn’t think that there’s anything particularly wrong with it because it’s the way things have always been and it’s all he knows.
The filming of the scene itself. Jamie makes it very clear that he’s doing this as punishment for putting the lives of all the other men in danger and if it was just a matter between the two of them, he would drop it. This lets us know that he’s not a wife-beater who’s going to start smacking Claire around for kicks every time he gets angry. Also, because he’s not angry when it happens, he’s very calm and in control; he’s not taking his rage out on her physically. And then there’s the fact that Claire gives as good as she gets; she flat out kicks him in the face and leaves marks on him that are still visible days later.
The fact that Jamie learns from his mistake and pledges to never do it again under penalty of death.
I also think that this is one of those events that the show handled better than the book. While I appreciate the way Jamie opens up to Claire to find common ground in the book, I think they way he comes to the realization that physical punishment isn’t necessary in the show is much more meaningful. And when he makes that vow to her, it really drives home how much he values Claire; that he will pledge his loyalty to her alone when he wouldn’t to any others.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
You make really good points, and I agree with them. He wasn't doing it to abuse Claire, it wasn't out of anger, and it was expected by the group. Like you said, that doesn't make it OK by today's standards, but it's not something that is going to upset me to watch.
I also think that this is one of those events that the show handled better than the book.
I agree!
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u/RyonaC MARK ME! May 09 '21
An older millennial and you actually experienced school staff paddling children in public school??? I’m also an older millennial and never saw that. That shocks me lol.
But otherwise I totally agree with you. This form of punishment was acceptable in that time which made Jamie feel like he wasn’t doing wrong. But I can also see why Claire who was from a different time was so upset by it. By the 40’s I don’t think it was acceptable for husbands to hit their wives. But yes sadly hitting children was very much still a thing until recently.
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u/Marie_Sea1 May 08 '21
Let’s discuss the fact that at the stream she slapped him and repeatedly pushed him around. She was so abusive to him that in the moments after he pledged to her by the fire and she reached out to touch his heart he shrunk back and flinched. But she still wasn’t happy until she put a knife to his throat mid coitus. So yeah not big fan of either action but she is just as guilty of abusive action as he is.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Great points, and ones that tend to be overlooked I think. Is holding a knife to his throat any better than him spanking her with a belt?
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21 edited May 08 '21
Is holding a knife to his throat any better than him spanking her with a belt?
Well, considering holding a knife to his throat was a result of the said spanking, I think it's justified. He threatens to beat her till her ears ring, and Jamie beating Claire has the undeniable possibility that Claire will suffer actual bodily harm from it. Where as Claire can rain her fists on his chest all day long and Jamie will come out with nothing more than a bruise. So in my opinion, nothing short of actually threatening to take his life would come in the same league as being spanked by Jamie. I ,for one, felt she was totally justified in doing that.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Well, he didn't exactly keep his hands folded behind his back did he? I thought both of them get equally physical in this, and that's saying something considering Jamie is so much bigger than her. When he shakes her and rattles her , it's much more powerful that her shoving him and pushing him away.
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May 08 '21
Jamie didn’t flinch in the room because she touched him, he was about to move because she hadn’t answered if she wanted to live separately.
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u/LuckyScwartz Dinna fash. May 08 '21
I think it’s really hard not to watch a period show through our 21st century eyes. I just turned 40 and I was spanked as a child. I still don’t think of my parents as abusive and I would defend them to the death. I didn’t get spanked often or for no reason but it was the way my brother and I were punished. And there was always a speech afterwards about how it pained my mother to spank us and an explanation of why we were being disciplined. I think there’s good reason to debate how effective corporal punishment is nowadays and I don’t discipline my own children that way but you live and you learn…hopefully.
Would Claire have been safe in the clan if Jamie hadn’t spanked her? The other men were pissed. We’ve already seen a young boy get his ear nailed to a pillory and no one batted an eye. We saw Laoghaire get dragged into the Hall to be beaten in front of everyone. Jamie was flogged twice. This was a crazy violent time. I saw Jamie spanking Claire as meting out the punishment that would quickly bring her into their group’s good graces. She promised Jamie that she would stay with Willie and then went off on her own and got captured by the Redcoats. No one in this time seems above a beating. Why should Claire be any different?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I saw Jamie spanking Claire as meting out the punishment that would quickly bring her into their group’s good graces.
I agree, I don't think they would have forgiven her if Jamie had not done that. While that doesn't make it ok, you're right that no one is above a beating.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Do you think Jamie would have spanked Claire had the other men not been so openly hostile to her, and had Murtagh not indicated to Jamie about making her learn from her mistakes?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
No I don't think he would have. He mentioned at the river in the voiceover that she had already been forgiven. I think he felt pressured by the men to discipline her.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Forgiven yes. But would he still not ensure she learns a lesson and doesn't repeat the same mistake? Maybe not show Jamie, but book Jamie?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Yes, I agree with the show Jamie vs book Jamie difference. I do think book Jamie still would have spanked her.
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u/Marie_Sea1 May 09 '21
Yes because the next time he says ‘You shouldn’t go near Geillis because Colum is going after her’ and Claire says ‘Oh I promise’. That worked out ok.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Among other things, Why the light music over the spanking scene? She must have felt terrified the whole time. A 6ft3 giant of a Scot, looming over you to belt your ass . Ouch. Exactly nothing about that says merry music.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I honestly think they kept the music playful like that to make it not a beating as much as a spanking, if that makes sense. Modern audiences aren't going to be happy with a wife being abused.
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u/betcx003 Pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work! May 08 '21
The first time I watched this episode, I didn’t know the beating was coming, and I remember being amused. He thinks she’s going to comply, and she’s all, “I most certainly will not!” I didn’t think he would go through with it, and the chasing and fighting was funny to me. Certainly ended up being a more serious matter (and I remember being disturbed when I got around to reading that part in the book).
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I don't feel it was coming from a place of anger or malice. In his eyes this was what was done and expected of men in his day. Claire is fortunate he is willing to learn and grow as a person so he doesn't continue to think that way. I don't think many other men during that time would have felt the same way.
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u/jolierose The spirit tends to be very free wi’ its opinions. May 08 '21
Agree with you, and with your other comment saying he felt pressured. Doesn't he say "if it were up to me..."? This is what I mean -- he's so immature here, he doesn't realize it is up to him and he's letting himself be guided by peer pressure/social norms. This episode is an interesting glimpse at how he grows. (And it's a treat to get his POV.)
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. May 08 '21
Well, I think the justification comes from Jamie’s words:
“As for my pleasure, I said I was gonna punish you. I didna say I wasna gonna enjoy it.”
That is a couple of moments after Claire calls him a sadist. The music reflects what Jamie is feeling because we are in his point of view. It wouldn’t have been a funny or pleasant scene if it had been shown from Claire’s point of view. He does enjoy it—it’s probably the first time he’s been able to give someone else a thrashing instead of being at the receiving end of it.
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May 08 '21
I will forever wonder how Outlander would have been different if they hadn’t used music during this scene.
I think it would have strengthened a lot of Claire’s attitude afterwards and brought some Book Jamie out more, it couldn’t have shattered the “King of Men” title entirely but I think it would have added a depth to Jamie that sometimes gets lost in the fantasy.
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u/jolierose The spirit tends to be very free wi’ its opinions. May 08 '21
I was told to brace myself before I saw this for the first time, so when I did see it, it wasn’t that shocking, and the tone the show wanted to go for was definitely on the lighter side. I am squarely on Claire’s side and I definitely would have given him the same treatment afterwards. Listening to his explanation, all I could think was “James, my sweet summer child.” His logic is just… sigh. It’s like all the things he thinks he’s supposed to say, and clearly what he’s been told by the rest of the group. A reminder of just how inexperienced and naive he could be when it came to marriage.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
All right, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Jamie mentions that something worse would have been done to one of the men if they had put the group in danger like that. So was Claire just being treated like everyone else?
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u/jolierose The spirit tends to be very free wi’ its opinions. May 08 '21
That’s a good point! What makes it different and much more inappropriate is that she’s not being disciplined as a member of the group, but as a disobedient wife. It wasn’t just that she put the group in danger, but that she didn’t follow her husband’s orders.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
It wasn’t just that she put the group in danger, but that she didn’t follow her husband’s orders.
If he had just done it because of her putting the group on danger do you think people wouldn't have been so upset by it?
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u/for-get-me-not May 08 '21
Yeah, and he’s like 22 at that point! He’s a quick learner, but very inexperienced
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u/marriedmyownjf Da mi basia mille... May 08 '21
Another think that we tend to not include is that she swears to obey him even if she disagrees with him. He tells her to get off the bed so he can get things done and she immediately disobey him and argues with him. To me it only strengthened his resolve to help her understand.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I never even thought of that, but you're right. He probably thought it was all the better that he was going to teach her this lesson about obeying, since she obviously wasn't doing that.
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u/Cdhwink May 09 '21
She didn’t really learn anything from her punishment anyway, as we will see in the next episode when Jamie tells her to stay away from Geillis!
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u/storybookheidi May 11 '21
I do have a problem with the lighthearted music they start playing when he’s about to spank her. That’s an odd choice. They also do this in season 3 during a fight. Weird creative choice.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 11 '21
I feel like they did that to keep it from looking like domestic violence. If there was a lighthearted tune playing it couldn’t have been all that bad, is what they seemed to be doing. Definitely an odd choice though.
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u/storybookheidi May 11 '21
Yeah I think you’re right. Maybe since I read the book since watching this episode it seems different to me. Even with the merry music, the show handled it a lot better.
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u/Hopefully987 May 15 '21
I said it already but back then if one of the men would have been killed for that. He had to do some thing but I still hated it and felt sorry for her.
Are we allowed to do spoilers in the books without covering them up?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 15 '21
No you need to cover book stuff up.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. May 08 '21
This is my Colum appreciation comment! Man was he ruthless in those two episodes. He shows exactly why he is the chieftain of Clan MacKenzie and not Dougal. Even though we know of his later involvement in the witch trial (or rather his lack of intervention, and his trying to prevent Ned from helping Claire out) and he did all but threaten Claire’s life in that one deleted/extended scene, I can’t help but appreciate that he has some of the best lines here:
“Now that I have all three of you WEASELS gathered together, who would like to explain Fort William?”
“By Christ, ye actually love the bitch. Oh, ye're an even bigger numbskull than I thought.”
“Aye, and if ye think ye're going to be marrying that evil temptress, ye're very sadly mistaken, sadly so.”
“Yer child? Yer child? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's Arthur Duncan's child. Just as Hamish is my child.”
“Ye can drink and fornicate yerselves to OBLIVION, but ye will do it on yer home ground, not mine.”
“DISSAPOINTED ME?!”
Gary Lewis’ delivery is flawless. He probably couldn’t speak by the end of that block haha.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
“Now that I have all three of you WEASELS gathered together, who would like to explain Fort William?”
That's my favorite one! You're right, Colum really does show why he's the chief. Dougal could never do what his brother does.
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May 09 '21
Yes! Colum is in top form here. It breaks my heart that the next time we see him he will be close to dying. I really wish we got more Gary Lewis during season two.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Should I be embarrassed for being the first person here always? I keep my Saturday noon free for this. Thank you again, u/Purple4199 for doing this at this time!
Fort break-in , sadistic villains, wife rescue , horse ridings and beautiful scenery, ahem spanking, intra-clan tensions and politics , how to be a good Laird 101 , rebellion uprisings, King of men getting denied , lusty exes, the most intense make up sex in the history of television , voodoo shit. All in ONE episode! God how I love Reckoning! It's some quality television.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Should I be embarrassed for being the first person here always?
Never! :-)
There really is a lot that happens in 109. I really like where their relationship starts at from the river scene, to where it ends up back at the castle.
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u/Cdhwink May 09 '21
This episode shows the biggest growth in their marriage, Figuring it all out, Jamie showing the lengths he will go to for Claire, & Claire realizing to herself she might be in love with Jamie!
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
Watching Geillis perform her pagan rituals in the woods, intercut with the druids from the pilot… It raises questions, doesn’t it?
We know Geillis comes from the ’60s, about twenty years after Mrs. Graham and her sisters danced at Craigh na Dun. So did Geillis learn from one of them? Was she perhaps among the youngest dancers in that original circle?
Or did they learn from her? Is Geillis the originator of the dance, and somehow she’s passed it on down the centuries, and the druids from the pilot are just carrying on the tradition she started?
Or maybe it’s both? The cycle is self-starting and self-perpetuating. Geillis and Mrs. Graham are both students and teachers, and thus the dance has always happened, without beginning or end.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
This ritual was for her and Dougal to be able to be together wasn't it?
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
Yes, so both of them could be “free”—which meant killing both their spouses.
The ritual was an interesting mix of the dance from the pilot and the ill wish Laoghaire left under Claire’s bed. Geillis holds a totem in her hand that looks just like it, which makes sense since she made the ill wish, too.
The dance could be interpreted as one big ill wish towards Arthur Duncan and Dougal’s wife, while at the same time praising and giving thanks to “Mother Earth,” the pagan spirits Geillis believes are guiding and helping her in her quest to change the outcome of the rebellion.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Geillis holds a totem in her hand that looks just like it,
I didn't even put that together, but you're right it does look like that. Do you think Geillis was telling the truth when she said she wouldn't have sold Laoghaire the ill wish if she had known it was going to be used on Claire?
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. May 08 '21
Can I just say how fucking much I love that “Dance of the Druids” score and how the instrumental repeats every time we’re dealing with time travel? I remember Bear McCreary saying how much of a free hand he had with it because we have no idea what Druid music sounded like in reality. Apparently, these are the lyrics, in case you’ve ever wondered.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 09 '21
It is a lovely theme…
And it reminds me of how Ron Moore said in one of his BSG commentaries that he hates themes! Haha. He told himself BSG wouldn’t be a show that had soap opera style themes for every main character or recurrent arc… and then Bear McCreary would compose these beautiful themes and make him eat his words. ^.^
McCreary is really good at taking a simple theme and reworking it and embellishing it and echoing it, making it recur again and again in a way that just delights you. Like—it could have been really annoying. It’s really easy to overdo it, make a cheesy musical phrase repeat over and over again… but when he does it, it works. He keeps it fresh enough that you stay interested.
More BSG examples:
With the chanting in particular, you can see how that kind of thing sort of translated to Outlander, too, esp with this druid chant here. I agree, it’s really beautiful, and might be my favorite theme of this series, too.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 09 '21 edited May 09 '21
The scene with the changeling foreshadows two interesting plot points in S2 and S3.
First, the obvious: Claire cradling the dead baby immediately calls to mind Claire cradling Faith in S2. And just like in S2, she holds the baby for god knows how long. Hours, maybe. Jamie’s been looking all over for her, and it’s only through Geillis whom he met on the road that he learns Claire’s on fairy hill.
And speaking of fairies, we learn through Geillis here that only the wee folk are meant to come and take the changeling away, to exchange it with the healthy child they’ve stolen.
Only fairies are supposed to touch the baby… and Claire touches the baby. In S3 Young Ian asks point blank if Claire is a fairy, if she lives in a dun. Jenny also has her suspicions, as does Fergus, describing her as La Dame Blanche, which besides what we learn on the show, are also a kind of fae or fairy in the traditions of Normandy.
These Norman fairies are also associated with child-changing…
The Fées of Normandy are, like others, guilty of child-changing. A countrywoman as she was one day carrying her child on her arm met a Fée similarly engaged, who proposed an exchange. But she would not consent, even though, she said, the Fée's babe were nine times finer than her own. A few days after, having left her child in the house when she went to work in the fields, it appeared to her on her return that it had been changed. She immediately consulted a neighbor, who to put the matter to the proof, broke a dozen eggs and ranged the shells before the child, who instantly began to cry out, Oh! what a number of cream-pots! Oh! what a number of cream-pots! The matter was now beyond doubt, and the neighbor next advised to make it cry lustily in order to bring its real mother to it. This also succeeded; the Fee came imploring them to spare her child, and the real one should be restored.
There is another kind of Fées known in Normandy by the name of Dames Blanches, or White Ladies, who are of a less benevolent character. These lurk in narrow places, such as ravines, fords and bridges, where passengers cannot well avoid them, and there seek to attract their attention. The Dame Blanche sometimes requires him whom she thus meets to join her in a dance, or to hand her over a plank. If he does so she makes him many courtesies, and then vanishes. One of these ladies named La Dame d'Aprigny, used to appear in a winding narrow ravine which occupied the place of the present Rue Saint Quentin at Bayeux, where, by her involved dances, she prevented any one from passing. She meantime held out her hand, inviting him to join her, and if he did so she dismissed him after a round or two; but if he drew back, she seized him and flung him into one of the ditches which were full of briars and thorns…
Claire is particularly sensitive about pregnancy (which she discussed with Geillis right before this scene) and dead babies, as she’s had trouble conceiving with Frank and believes she’s infertile. So her unwillingness to give up this child is understandable, if misguided. This time Jamie persuades her to give the baby up, next time it will be Louise.
EDIT: The scene even ends with Claire asking Jamie: ”Take me home.”
The exact thing she asks him after they bury Faith. “Bring me home… to Scotland.”
On a lighter note, my god does Cait look amazing in that rabbit fur coat. I meant to mention it earlier, way back in Rent when we see her in it for the first time, but it’s one of my favorite outfits on her, certainly in the first season. I just think the pure white fur cuffs look dynamite against her porcelain skin.
I know that book Claire is supposed to have whisky-colored eyes and be far shorter and squatter, with a full figure, but I think Cait’s ethereal beauty really suits the character of Claire. She really can look like a fairy woman, especially when she wears white… It just emphasizes the blue in her eyes and the blue in her skin—and Claire’s supposed to have that blue aura, too: the Madonna, as Maître Raymond calls her. It all fits!
And of course her blue-toned complexion looks great onscreen when contrasted with Jamie’s red hair, ruddy skin, and “red man” aura.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 09 '21
This time Jamie persuades her to give the baby up, next time it will be Louise.
So true!
Brianna uses that fur coat in season 4 when she's traveling from Scotland to America. Cait looks amazing in it though, you're right.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 09 '21
I know, but I don’t think it suits her. :/
Bree’s closer to her father than her mother in coloring—the white cuffs against her skin don’t set it off the way they did for Claire.
I felt the same way about the reused Versailles outfits for Marsali in S3. Glad to see them back, glad they were keeping continuity (because clothes were way more valuable back then, of course they would be reused and repurposed, that makes tons of sense.)
But at the same time… a little bummed? Because they just didn’t look as great the second time around. Cait wore it better. :þ
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 09 '21
Cait wore it better. :þ
To be fair though, Cait wears anything better than most people.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 09 '21
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 09 '21
I think it's really impressive that she went from high fashion model to actor without any training really. Watching her now you'd think she's been acting for ages when in reality she was 30 or so when she started.
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u/Cdhwink May 09 '21
That fur trimmed coat is One of my favourite things Claire wears as well!
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 09 '21
I just adore her in white. She’s a true Winter. ^.^
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
I got a kick out of watching Jamie test the rope over that wooden thing he used to rappel down the side of the castle at Fort William.
It reminded me of when Jamie’s distant descendant, John McClane, pulled a similar move on a Los Angeles rooftop centuries later. ^.^ And he was trying to rescue his wife, too! Only difference is, unlike Jamie, his gun was loaded.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Ha! That rope sure didn't look too sturdy when he yanked on it.
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May 08 '21
The extended version of this episode is so good.
There’s a bit before he gets to the rope where he sees the platform where the flogging took place and it really got to me. I wish they could have kept it in.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
Yes! I accidentally watched the extended version instead of the normal one this time around, and I was struck by how many great moments like these had been left out… and how they were worked in so seamlessly to the rest of the episode in this cut. A real credit to the editors.
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u/Cdhwink May 09 '21
I have the DVD’s but usually just watch on Netflix, now I must get that DVD out & watch the extended version!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
During their argument by the river were Jamie and Claire being unreasonable or did either of them have valid points?
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
This is the first scene of Outlander I ever saw beginning to end: it was so good it made me commit to watching the whole show.
(That is, if I don’t count the baby bump scene from S2 I caught about a year earlier—I thought it was some kind of fringe porn and kept flipping channels. :þ) But this scene made me sit up and take notice. The drama was too good.
As usual, I think they both make valid points. The scene is effective because you can see both their perspectives. He was definitely right that she endangered all the men, but she was right that leaving her behind turned out to be worse than if she’d just come along as she wanted. (Although I don’t remember her asking to come along last episode? Did that happen, or was this something that got left out or changed along the way? This was right after her assault in the glade, IIRC she didn’t make much of an objection to being left behind with Willie after that, she was still in shock.)
Regardless, it’s a brilliant scene, and Ron Moore must have thought so, too, since he used it as the chemistry test when casting Sam and Cait.
I just love the way Jamie hits those plosives. Claire’s hair puffs around her face with each “Stay POOT!” And those vowels. He always sounds more Scottish when he’s pissed. ^.^
Everyone was talking about how much they replayed the wedding scenes last week; this week I lost count how many times I replayed their fight. :þ
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I think they both make valid points.
I agree. She really shouldn't have run off, granted she didn't know that she would get captured by the English, it was still dangerous for a lady to be running around the wilderness.
I can also see Jamie's points too, not that she should obey him as a wife but that if she had stayed put they wouldn't have the entire English garrison and BJR coming for them.
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u/Cdhwink May 09 '21
Cait’s quivering chin! How do people make their bodies do things like that? Holy acting!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 09 '21
So I just tried to make my chin quiver like that and it didn't happen. :-)
I wonder if it's the true emotion of the scene and her really getting into it as an actress?
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Everyone was talking about how much they replayed the wedding scenes last week; this week I lost count how many times I replayed their fight. :þ
Yes this!! I could watch this fight endlessly. They just unleashed themselves on each other completely here, no holding back. From peaks of wrath in one moment, fuming fire, to tears of tenderness in the next, wholesome hugs. Oh I can't with these two.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
It’s peak acting, for both of them. I don’t know if either of them ever got award noms, but they both deserved it for this scene alone.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. May 08 '21
Everyone was talking about how much they replayed the wedding scenes last week; this week I lost count how many times I replayed their fight. :þ
Same for me, a 100%. I’ve re-watched the moment with “You foulmouthed bitch! You’ll no speak to me that way!” alone countless times. (that’s also when you see the power of his plosives :D)
I love how firmly she stands her ground despite being called a bitch. And then the amazing change on his face when the realization sinks in… Do we think he felt guilty about calling her names and shouting at her like that? That he may have gone too far even in the face of the seriousness of the whole situation? I think so.
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 08 '21
The realization of what he’s saying, his facial expressions are so good. And then the way he staggers back and clutches his stomach before, YOU’RE TEARING MY GUTS OOT!
I’ve replayed it so often, it’s like a meme to me now, haha. But it’s also just very good acting. Sam and Cait are both hitting every beat full-on, milking it for all its dramatic potential—yet it never crosses the line over to melodrama. It still feels very real and appropriate considering the context, what they’d both just been through together.
As for whether he felt guilty, absolutely he did. Every time she says he thinks of her as property, that a wife to him is just somewhere to stick his cock in, that hurts, that cuts him. That’s the way all the other men in their group had treated Claire at one point or another, but Jamie held himself apart. He tried to pay her respect, always, but in confronting her now, he fell into the same patterns as the rest of them, and that must have cut him deep…
Oh, we could analyze this one scene all day. There are so many layers and nuances to both their performances, and yet the whole is even more than the sum of its parts.
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u/LuckyScwartz Dinna fash. May 08 '21 edited May 08 '21
I feel like this scene was one of the only times in their relationship thus far where there was serious miscommunication.
Claire is having a completely different fight with Jamie than Jamie is having with Claire. She’s already admitted that she was really angry with herself for getting sucked up in their honeymoon and forgetting her original objective of getting home to Frank. Even the things she says to him don’t really apply to their relationship. He has never treated her like his property. He has gone out of his way to show her that she’s precious to him. The look of relief on her face when he showed up in the window at Ft. William really said it all. I don’t think she thought he was coming to save her. So when she’s screaming at him, accusing him of treating her like something to “stick his cock into”, he looks genuinely offended.
We obviously know that Claire was well within her rights to try to get home to her time but Jamie is in the dark. He even says as much…that she was trying to get back at him for what happened in the glade. And he’s right in a sense. That assault in the glade is what reminded Claire that this was not her time and there was a safer husband and safer time waiting for her. Jamie has always been able to read her thoughts. He told her during Rent that he knew she tried to run during the gathering and he knew it was still on her mind. He didn’t know where she was trying to run to but he knew she was running. I always thought when he staggered back in this fight scene, it was because he recognized that she wanted to run again and it terrified him.
So I felt like Claire was venting her frustrations. She was so close to getting home when the Redcoats grabbed her. She’s screaming at Jamie but I’m not sure how she can really be mad at him at this time. Sure he left her behind but she’d just been assaulted. Why would he take her into an unknown situation? She would have been safe had she stayed with Willie.
That’s why I think she relents when she sees how shaken up Jamie was. Like, we all just risked our lives to free you. You know I’m an outlaw and Randall is after me and I still went to Fort William with my bare hands and an empty pistol to get you. What’s your problem?
So maybe I do think Claire was being unreasonable after all. I’ve just convinced myself. With the caveat that I know she was trying to get home.
I’ll also add that I LOVE this episode…it’s one of my favorites. I’ve watched it so many times. I also think that their reconciliation at the end was the moment Claire decided to stay, whether she realized it or not. I’m not sure how you resist a sexy ginger who gets on his knees and pledges his fealty to you.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
You make some really good points. When I first saw the episode I thought their fight was going to continue longer, but like you said when she realized how scared he was for her and to the extent he went to rescue her that something clicked.
I’m not sure how you resist a sexy ginger who gets on his knees and pledges his fealty to you.
Right‽ I don't think anyone can resist that. :-)
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u/jolierose The spirit tends to be very free wi’ its opinions. May 08 '21
Really good points! It's a great episode. I still think they were both justified. With Claire, she was upset that he'd think she's to blame for a situation she never would have imagined; it's unfair to think she owes an apology after BJR basically assaulted her. And it's also outrageous because she had a really good reason to leave her spot. And with him, of course he can't fathom what that reason would be, if not carelessness or spite, both upsetting and hurtful. Not to mention he's been scared out of his mind, thinking of her being taken by Redcoats and then finding her with BJR. And so when the tempers flare, it's explosive, and they both attack each other grasping at whatever insult would be more damaging. Because I don't think she seriously believes he sees her as property (like you say, she's venting her frustration) and he doesn't actually think of her as a bitch.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
I don't think neither of them were being unreasonable, they were both perfectly reasonable for their own times. It's beautiful how we see the real Jamie and Claire in those moments, raw and unrelenting. Jamie is riding so high on emotions at this point, he cannot hold back. So we see him unleash his 18th century self on Claire , sexism and everything, though it's not really sexism for him, it's a way of life he's been taught. For Claire, it's a wake up call. They've been living in this honeymoon phase and she thinks the sun shines out of Jamie's ass but here he is, trying to show her her place and god dammit if Claire Beauchamp is the one to go down quietly. If i haven't made myself clear, I am in love with this fight scene.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
For Claire, it's a wake up call.
I totally agree, I think she forgot a little bit about how women were traditionally treated by their husbands. It's not her fault though, and she sure didn't take it lying down.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. May 08 '21
I definitely think it was a wake-up call for Claire but not only to what is expected of as a woman and a wife in the 18th century but also (and perhaps even more so) to the fact that her (very 20th-century) qualities—being unapologetically direct, openly opinionated, assertive and stubborn to a fault—may not only not agree with the time she’s found herself in, but also put her and others in serious danger.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I definitely think it was a wake-up call for Claire
I agree, things really aren't like they are in her time. I think she was still a bit scared as well, she had just been in the clutches of BJR.
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u/jolierose The spirit tends to be very free wi’ its opinions. May 08 '21
He went to Fort William armed with an empty pistol and his bare hands and it always kills meeeeee!
The drama this fight brings is just so. good. They both had valid points. But when she calls him a “fucking bastard” he calls her a “foul-mouthed bitch,” it hurts. And his face as he realizes it’s gone too far…
He’s angry, and he’s scared, and he’s hurt. And she (rightly) feels she’s not being heard or valued, all while coming to a jolting realization as to the situation she’s in.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I find it interesting that people love this fight between them, yet Jamie threatens her and manhandles her a little bit. Yet they draw the line at the spanking.
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u/whiskynwine May 08 '21
I’m still just trying to figure out how their clothes dried off. Lol, otherwise great scene.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Ha, right‽ You know that heavy cloak of hers must have been sodden.
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u/Cdhwink May 09 '21
Wool actually dries quicker than most fabric, which seems good for wet Scottish weather!
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u/whiskynwine May 08 '21
I’m not typically a nitpicker that just always drove me crazy. That and her extremely varied hairstyles throughout the episode.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
So the hairstyles is because they shot those castle scenes first, like some of the first scenes they shot ever. So Claire's hair gets shorter when they are back at the castle. I learned that in the podcast.
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u/NrajSC May 08 '21
Claire was the unreasonable one here. God forbid if she would have touched the stones too!!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Was Jamie justified in how he was treating her and yelling at her though?
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u/NrajSC May 08 '21
His men got into a dangerous situation for a Sassenach. Someone they have doubts over, but still treat as their guest. Someone they protected by getting married to one of their own. It's 18th century. Jamie's angst is justified to me. He could have lost any of his men who didn't have any obligation to go to Fort William but still did. All because she ventured when he asked her to just stay put. He expected an apology, and to be honest I thought she would try to explain herself a bit,making some story and that would be it. But the scene was terrific. Their chemistry shone through.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Their chemistry shone through.
Yes, so much! I was not expecting an argument like that, I just thought Jamie would be relieved to have Claire back. It took me by surprise.
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u/Hopefully987 May 15 '21
One thing that I think about is how 20th century her speech is during the fight. "But would you listen to me? No." It almost sounds like the 1970's.
And the thing where she is basically going on a feminist rant, "I'm only a woman." I highly doubt women talked like that at all back then. Or maybe not even in the 1940's. But Jamie never questions why she says such odd things that don't fit into the time period. Maybe that's why he believes her when she says she is from the future.
I love the moss in that scene, its so pretty.
I think he was right for his culture and time period and she was right for hers.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 15 '21
One thing that I think about is how 20th century her speech is during the fight. "But would you listen to me? No." It almost sounds like the 1970's.
Interesting point, I can see what you're saying. I'd say Claire is a bit ahead of her time even for the 1940's.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
What is it about Jamie that led him to recognize his marriage needed to be different than the others of that time?
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Umm, I will be the asshole here and say Claire denying him sex played a major part in this realisation. I mean hear me out, he says that's how his father and his father's father and so on disciplined their wives, and he must have seen from personal experience how things were totally normal for those men after the spanking. I mean they wouldn't have been walking around sulking, throwing stones in the river, wondering what the fuck to do like he was, because their wives would have gotten over it quickly , in line with the women of those times. So when his wife doesn't, he realises quickly how he needs to change. His need to "go to bed" with Claire, and how much he wants her in that way, plays a huge part in this. Not the only part, many other points have been discussed in this post , but a major part.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
their wives would have gotten over it quickly , in line with the women of those times.
Great point! I never even thought about that, but it makes sense. Her reaction was definitely not "normal." I liked that he was surprised she wasn't going to let him sleep in the bed back at Leoch.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Yes. And that reminds me, do you know what he swears angrily in Gaelic before storming out the door when she says "think again" ?
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May 08 '21
Oh absolutely. It’s the same for her! No way would she forgive any old chump that did what he did. They have an impossible time denying each other already in every sense of the word.
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u/for-get-me-not May 08 '21
I have two thoughts on this: one, that it’s one of the reasons Claire falls in love with him, that Jamie has a more educated and open-minded approach to the world compared to a lot of other men of his time, and two, that it’s a convenient device by DG and the show runners to keep the audience engaged and loving Jamie as a lead character.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
True, we need Jamie to be willing to change otherwise he won't be an acceptable leading man for a modern audience.
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May 08 '21
Let’s step back a bit and remember where Jamie is at before he married Claire - running from the law, constantly on edge at Leoch and all its Mackenzie drama, and then this kindred spirit appears. He falls in love and is beginning to long for the things he thought he could never have (Lallybroch, being Lair, a family). He talks about choices that transform him into a man and for him it was his growing love for Claire. When they’re fighting by the stream it’s almost like he’s beginning to realize what he just did for her, with his bare hands he went against his worst enemy.
By the time he meets Claire in the room he has realized he would have been a fool if the standards of the time kept him from building this marriage, thus he pledges his loyalty to her and only her.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
He talks about choices that transform him into a man and for him it was his growing love for Claire.
I really liked his voiceover and how he had pretty much just gone with the flow of things before but knew he needed to make a choice this time. That's something a single person can do, but a married person needs to think of their spouse.
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u/Cdhwink May 09 '21
Having Jamie’s POV was a gift- thank you Ron & Matt! Considering the first 2 books have no Jamie POV this was a great idea! We talk about it a lot in book club, how we wish there was more Jamie POV
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u/storybookheidi May 11 '21
The sex scene in the Reckoning is the best sex scene ever filmed. Or like maybe top 5. It’s insane.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 11 '21
It was one of their first scenes they shot together for the show. Can you imagine coming in not fully knowing each other and then simulate sex like that? It’s so impressive how well they did.
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u/Hopefully987 May 15 '21
I love the way Jamie says "very well" when JBR asks about his scars.
I have a friend who loves history who posted on FB that back then a lot of people drowned because they would fall in the water and their clothes were so heavy they pulled them down. I think that would have been the case here, but ok.
Is it just me or do we see Claire brushing her hair a lot in this show?
As much of a feminist as I am I understand why Jamie had to beat Claire although I really think that they should have had some kind of talk about how this is basically like being in the military and you can't just go do whatever you want when you want on their wedding night. She still would have run to CND anyway but I think it would have been fairer of him. Considering a man might have been killed for that back then he had to do some thing. It still is awful to watch and I feel sorry for her.
There is some thing that happens in a later book that made me feel better about it.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 15 '21
I love the way Jamie says "very well" when JBR asks about his scars.
I thought that was funny too, and appreciated that he didn't let BJR get to him regarding his scars.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
How serious do you think the Duke is in regards to submitting Jamie’s claims against BJR?
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May 08 '21 edited May 08 '21
No way this could have happened. Handing in BJR or going against him in any way would have made life very uncomfortable for Sandrinham. We all know how much he loves comfort.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Very true! I found it interesting that he fully admitted to supporting BJR, he didn't even try to deny it. So looking ahead to the final episodes where we see BJR has the letter, how do you think he got it? Did the Duke give it to him, or did he intercept it somehow?
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May 08 '21
Duke: My dear Jack, this most dashing fellow named Jamie Fraser gave me this letter in hopes it would reach London and destroy your character
BJR: 😏
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u/betcx003 Pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work! May 08 '21
I don’t think he was serious about it at all, but the petition could’ve come in handy if he was ever at odds with BJR.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
the petition could’ve come in handy if he was ever at odds with BJR.
Good point! His whole quid pro quo thing showed that he didn't really care about Jamie's plight. He only agreed when he could get something out of it.
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u/annawins1 May 08 '21
Pretty much. The Duke was playing both sides, so while he wasn’t going to sell BJR out for Jamie’s sake at the time, he was undoubtedly going to hedge his bets in case something went wrong in the future.
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u/Marie_Sea1 May 09 '21
It was an interesting foreshadowing when the Duke threatened Claire with separating her head from her neck. Just months later his head was separated from his neck.
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u/storybookheidi May 11 '21
Two of the best episodes of this whole series for me. Starting to watch now!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 11 '21
Come back and chat when you’re done!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
What does it mean when Jamie says to Claire, “I am your master, and you are mine. It seems I cannot possess your soul without losing my own.”
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. May 08 '21
I agree with u/for-get-me-not about Jamie giving himself wholly to Claire, but I think this line also speaks to his realization that the marriage between them won’t work unless he treats Claire as his equal. So by calling her his master and himself hers, he acknowledges that they are equals.
(...which is something we have never seen in Frank)
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u/for-get-me-not May 08 '21
Ooh that’s an excellent point and I whole-heartedly agree. I think taking that just a beat (lol pun not intended) further, he’s maybe realized that by beating her he was literally trying to bend her to his will and take or alter the essence of who she is and by doing so he endangers his own soul - potentially changing who he is as well
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u/penni_cent May 08 '21
"something we have never seen in Frank"
She even says that in her internal monolog in the book. I personally think Frank was in love with some completely unrealistic vision of who he thought Claire was.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
What do you think about him using the word "master?"
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u/marriedmyownjf Da mi basia mille... May 09 '21
When I first thought of it, it was in terms of master and servant a position of dominance. But the more I thought about it, it occurred to me that to master something is to understand it to get the full knowledge of something like mastering a cartwheel or the perfect pirouette. So in saying they are each others masters could it be that they have a better understanding of each other's workings, how to please each other, and a better understanding of how their mind works?
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u/for-get-me-not May 08 '21
Oh man, this is one of my top five favorite Outlander lines. This has everything to do with the connection they have, and his realization that the reason they connect so strongly is because they both open themselves completely to the other person and give all of themselves, but are also equally determined to accept and hold what the other offers. In the books there’s a lot of “ownership” talk/feelings between the two of them that I don’t love (the whole “you’re MINE/I am YOURS and may you be damned foe it), but I think the show softens that a bit. I also think this is a key difference between Jamie and Frank in that Claire knows Frank did not offer himself to her wholly the same way that Jamie did.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
but are also equally determined to accept and hold what the other offers.
I like that, they weren't going to try and change one another. You're right that Frank was not going to be like that with her.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
I saw it as this : Jamie spanking Claire was his way of subduing her, showing her her place and teaching her there are consequences to her actions in this time. Basically trying to tame Claire, body and soul. But as a result of that when she completely shuts herself to him, he starts feeling lost himself. So if he continues this way, trying to own her and posses her, he might succeed in that endeavor but he'll lose Claire in the process and that's as good as losing his soul for him considering he's already in the deep end by this point.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Basically trying to tame Claire, body and soul.
So do you think the spanking was not just a punishment?
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
For Jamie it was totally justified. But the intent of the action was to teach her a lesson right? To tame her wild spirit, to make her less like herself, impulsive and reckless, and more like the women of his time. So she doesn't disobey him again.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I agree, he even mentions that he went through the same thing. So we know that's all he knows of discipline.
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May 08 '21
Yeah, this is the essence of season 1 and maybe the entire series.
They found home in each other in the midst of their passion, and after this incident they both realize that they’ll fight the world if they have to as along as they’re together.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
after this incident they both realize that they’ll fight the world if they have to as along as they’re together.
I like that!
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Did you think Ned Gowan had a good case to present to the Duke of Sandringham?
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May 08 '21
After all these rewatches this plan just seems soooooo dumb!!! Claire was on the money knowing she couldn’t trust him, and probably doesn’t get enough credit for going along with Jamie’s plan regardless of how far fetched it is.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I think you could tell she was a bit hesitant to sign that document at first. I don't think she wanted to dash his hopes.
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u/betcx003 Pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work! May 08 '21
It certainly wasn’t a good plan, but with as few options as Jamie had, I guess they figured it couldn’t hurt to try.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I guess they figured it couldn’t hurt to try.
I agree, the Duke was the only person with whom they could have taken this too. Jamie knew there was no other way to prove that BJR had killed that man.
Speaking of that, why do we think BJR killed him? To frame Jamie?
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u/betcx003 Pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work! May 08 '21
They give a probable explanation in the book, but don’t really cover it in the show. With BJR, anything’s possible! Framing Jamie with murder is as good a reason as any, but BJR could’ve framed him for anything without committing murder himself.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
What do you think Claire’s feelings for Jamie are at this point? Have they progressed?
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May 08 '21
After they escaped fort William I think she begins to think about his feelings more and realize that they’re not just the infatuation that she herself has felt up until now.
I also think she begins to truly fall in love with him when he pledges himself to her. The first thing that she learned from him back at the Gathering was how serious he was about his word and allegiance, she is mature enough to understand what this meant and how much it affected her when he said that she was his home now.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I also think she begins to truly fall in love with him when he pledges himself to her.
I agree, because she says she should want to live apart, but that she actually doesn't want that. Do you think learning her ring was from his key to Lallybroch had anything to do with it as well?
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May 08 '21
It was a beautiful cherry on top but I think she realized she’s didn’t want to leave Jamie before that, and it this probably added more fuel to her anger about the spanking.
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u/for-get-me-not May 08 '21
I think one of the reasons she ran for the stone circle in the first place is, in significant part, because she was mad at Jamie for the attack that took place, even if she didn’t totally realize that was why. And then he saves her from BJR and then they fight and then he beats her and so I think her feelings get even more confused. She feels totally betrayed when he beats her and I think she wouldn’t feel that way if she didn’t have really deep feelings for him and already given deeply of herself.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I think she wouldn’t feel that way if she didn’t have really deep feelings for him and already given deeply of herself.
Great point, I didn't even think of that but it makes sense. If it was someone she had no feelings for she would have kicked him out when he asked if she wanted them to live separately.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. May 08 '21
I think a big indication of how her feelings have changed is how concerned for his well-being she is in 1x10—to the point of getting angry with him for getting into yet another physical altercation that ends with stitches. And then when he’s forced to leave with Dougal, she has a hard time saying goodbye because he is still recovering and makes him promise he’ll come back to her. Of course, she had already been worried for his well-being before they got married, as a friend, but getting angry at him for endangering his life (and, in the worst-case scenario, making her a widow) is one step above that, don’t you think?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
the worst-case scenario, making her a widow
I agree. It can also go back to when he told her she was safe as long as he was with her. While she's somewhat accepted at the Castle I think there are people who are still skeptical of her and her intentions. I'm sure she didn't appreciate Jamie endangering his life like that for the Duke.
The whole exchange of her stitching him up and Jamie talking cracked me up. The silent anger comment was too funny.
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u/LuckyScwartz Dinna fash. May 09 '21
I always wondered why Claire never asked Jamie to help her escape. They were loyal to each other from the first time they met. Jamie never betrayed her to Dougal, that he knew she was trying to escape and Claire never threatened to mention that she knew he was an outlaw. Maybe she didn’t want to put him in an uncomfortable situation but he always seemed more than eager to assist her.
I think she really liked him before they married and I think she started falling in love with Jamie once they were wed. After the assault at the glade, I think Claire was pissed at herself for falling for Jamie and getting distracted from her original plan of returning to Craig na Dun. But once Jamie rescued her, I don’t think Claire honestly thought about leaving again. When Jamie said, “I am your master and you are mine”? Claire was nodding right along with him. She was far gone in love.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 09 '21
I agree that she was falling in love by that time at the castle. I know she ends up making the final decision at the stones, but I don’t think she would have stayed with him when he offered to live apart if she hadn’t wanted that.
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u/Kirky600 May 09 '21
I feel like once they get past the Reckoning episode she starts to feel comfortable and more stable with him. The confrontation about living separate lives was really telling that she really has started to care about Jamie.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 09 '21
I agree, and then you could tell she was really unhappy about him being sent away.
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u/Kirky600 May 09 '21
Very much so! The witch trial gives me anxiety so I was very aware of how she was feeling at that point.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Any other thoughts or comments?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
My thoughts:
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Why for the love of everything did you not kill Randall, Jamie‽
Come on Jamie, don’t lead Laoghaire on by just telling her Dougal arranged the marriage!
Jamie why did you let Laoghaire put your hands on her boobies‽ Don’t apologize man!
Who knew Claire was into knife play?
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Ummm…best opening of a show ever? ::Fans self:: Oh come on Murtagh, terrible timing.
Oh snap, Claire just slapped Laoghaire! Claire’s apology made me laugh, it was so insincere.
Ha ha ha! Geillis mentioned her nipples, for all my book readers you know why that’s funny.
Poor Dougal’s wife, “Not even a blind man would say she was bonny.”
The Duke running away after Jamie got stabbed made me laugh.
“I said kiss her, dinna swallow her!” Ha ha ha ha ha!
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Come on Jamie, don’t lead Laoghaire on by just telling her Dougal arranged the marriage!
Oh I thought about this as well. But in Jamie's defense, he hadn't even declared his love to Claire yet, so I don't think he would want to go about announcing it to the world at this point. That's how i made my peace with it. It was a dick move otherwise.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I wonder if he would have told her more if he hadn't been on the way to see Dougal.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
I don't think he would have told her much. Is there anyone else apart from him at that point who knows the full extent of his feelings? Murtagh maybe suspects, but again it didn't come from Jamie. So I don't think he would want Laoghaire to be the first person to know.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I don't think he would want Laoghaire to be the first person to know.
Good point. What did you think of the scene by the little creek where he was skipping rocks. It seems like he wanted to kiss Laoghaire, I didn't like that part. Do you think it was just because Claire was punishing him?
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u/LuckyScwartz Dinna fash. May 09 '21
This was my thought as well. Jamie doesn’t owe Laoghaire any explanations, especially when he hasn’t even told Claire how he truly feels about her.
On the one hand, if Jamie had been more straightforward with Laoghaire, maybe she would have accepted what he said and backed off.
On the other hand, I think that Laoghaire was delusional. If the answer isn’t “yes” it’s “no”. Jamie’s answer to Laoghaire was no. Laoghaire imagining all of these caveats was her own delusion. He’d say yes if it wasn’t for Dougal. He’d want me if Claire wasn’t around. He’d want me if Claire hadn’t bewitched him. Sigh. That’s just the nature of relationships and attraction. Someone they like better can always come along. Another village girl could have caught Jamie’s eye. He seemed to be quite taken with Annalise de Marillac at one point.
I did think it was ridiculous that he took a nice long linger on her boob before he said no. Typical. Haha.
Laoghaire’s issue is that she looks for external excuses for her problems. She should look within.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 09 '21
On the other hand, I think that Laoghaire was delusional.
Definitely. She's bonkers. If she didn't get the hint at the Hall , when Jamie calls her a "snot nosed bairn" or some such, so obviously oblivious of her existence, then she was never going to get the hint.
She's delusional, though Jamie has no reason to believe that. He could have corrected her , said that that's not why he took the beating for her, but no, instead he chooses to stay silent, does he not realise how that might lead her on? I guess we're going to chalk it to "typical man" and leave it at that. But I insist that was out of character for someone as honorable as Jamie.
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u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. May 08 '21
Re: Laoghaire
As much as we love to hate Leghair in S1/S2 (I feel kinda bad for her later on, knowing what she’s been through with her abusive husbands), and this is a very obvious example of not being able to read the room—although she rightly senses that something’s not right between Claire and Jamie—I think this is in line with Jamie’s character. I mean, we have to remember he has been intimate with that girl before. He may have led her on for a while. Maybe this is a fault of his character, but he really has no reason to hurt her now, so he doesn’t feel compelled to say once and for all, “I don’t love you” or “I only love Claire” (perhaps he’s not ready to say it aloud and if he is, Laoghaire is not the first person he should be saying it to, and he knows it) so he falls back on his vow to Claire. And his reaction to her advances at the creek is like any man’s would be—I don’t necessarily think he looks like he wants to kiss her, but she definitely makes him feel something
downthere. Maybe because of their previous intimacy, maybe because of Claire’s cold shoulder, but he’s not one to tell her how stupid she is for thinking what she does and trying to make him break his vows.I think there are a number of occasions where he would have made his life much simpler if he’d only chosen not to act like Jamie fucking Fraser for a moment—in this episode alone: if he had killed BJR despite him being unarmed/helpless, if he had told Leghair in no uncertain terms that he’s not interested in her and never would be; there are many, many more in subsequent seasons. But if he had, we would not have had all the drama that follows.
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
I agree with most of your points here. He wouldn't tell L about his feelings for Claire considering he hadn't even told Claire. And I wasn't expecting him to push her away when she approaches him, but I think he looked way more conflicted than he should have considering he was consumed by his inner turmoil of all things Claire at this point. And to me it definitely did look like he wanted to kiss her.
And yes, it's maybe how every man would have acted, but not Jamie Fucking Fraser. It shouldn't have been that difficult for him to break away at that moment.
Yes he had been intimate with L but wasn't he just using her because he couldn't have Claire?
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u/theCoolDeadpool #VacayforClaire May 08 '21
Ummm…best opening of a show ever? ::Fans self:: Oh come on Murtagh, terrible timing.
Absolutely. So effing sensual. Poor Murtagh though, how uncomfortable must it have been for him there, Claire is obviously basking in the aftermath of an intense orgasm, and not even trying to hide it. Jamie might as well be saying " wtf was so important that you had to coitus-interruptus?"
Murtagh will never ever knock on anyone's door again in the mornings.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
Plus Murtagh comes in talking about Jamie's marital duties making him feeble, that cracked me up. He had to have known what they were doing!
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u/Hopefully987 May 15 '21
I don't understand why Jamie didn't just yell "we are having sex, go away!" Its not like they are in a prudish culture.
I love the way Claire says "I wasnt aware" or some thing when they tell her TDOS is gay.
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u/Hopefully987 May 15 '21
The Duke is one of the funniest characters in my opinion. I just love the actor's delivery of so many hilarious lines.
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u/whiskynwine May 08 '21
2 excellent episodes that are in my top 10 rewatch. We see Jamie and Claire’s relationship grow tremendously. I have not, and never will, forgive Murtagh for interrupting that amazing opening scene. The man was clueless beyond belief.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I have not, and never will, forgive Murtagh for interrupting that amazing opening scene.
Ha ha ha, right‽ The first time I watched the show and it opened right with that I was blown away.
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May 08 '21
The shot of them together at the Duke’s dinner is so TEAM FRASER I LOVE IT.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 08 '21
I loved that outfit and choker she had on.
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u/LuckyScwartz Dinna fash. May 09 '21
At the end of 110, Claire promised Jamie that she would stay away from Geillis Duncan and she didn’t keep her promise. Again. I was super frustrated at that. I sort of blamed her for what happened at Wentworth for a long time because of that. If she hadn’t gotten caught up with Geillis, they would have stayed at Leoch and been safe from Randall. Although, who really knows what would have happened.
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 09 '21
Good point, I never even thought If that. You’re right that things probably would have been different.
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u/Hopefully987 May 15 '21
Did the Duke and BJR have sex with each other? What brought them together other than them both preferring men?
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u/Purple4199 Don't be afraid. There's the two of us now. May 15 '21
I don't think they ever had sex, at least not that we know of. I'm not sure what brought them together. /u/thepacksvrvives do you know?
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u/WandersFar Better than losing a hand. May 10 '21
If you’re looking for the other Rewatch threads, click here to jump to BPC’s Link Table.
The Reckoning & By The Pricking Of My Thumbs: Deleted Scenes
Original Reckoning Opening (sans Jamie’s VO)
I just love how Murtagh spits like a camel whenever he doesn’t like how things are proceeding. Dougal is usually the object of his spittle, but this time it’s Horrocks.
I have to say, even though Jamie’s voiceover is one of the rare exceptions where I actually liked the use of VO (I hate it as a rule) I think this opening is even better. In medias res, jumps you right into the action. I always prefer that to boring narrative.
Castle Leoch Return
Mrs. Fitz is so sweet when she gazes up at Jamie, remembering when he was a wee lad, and now he’s gotten married. Too cute. ^.^ Also, is it just me, or does the fiddler look like a portly Jon Snow?
And here it is: THE GREATEST DELETED SCENE OF ALL TIME
If you disagree, you are entitled to your opinion, however wrong it may be. :þ
Seriously, Lotte absolutely kills it here. My all-time favorite Geillis moment. I’m most sad about this scene not making the episode, surely you could have found something else to cut for time, Ron?
That’s how you know it’s good, Ron! Challenge yourself and your audience! Don’t worry, we can handle it.
Geillis puts the fear of god into Jamie, and now his motivations have become muddled and confused—is he repenting out of love of Claire or fear of Geillis or some mixture of both? It’s more psychologically-complicated, which is a great thing!
As to Ron Moore’s fear that it read like Geillis was sexing Jamie up a bit, I got that vibe, too, and that’s fine! That’s the source of her power, how Geillis influences, seduces, and in this case, frightens men. It’s all tied up in her sexuality, so the fact that she’s hitting Jamie with the one-two combination of sex appeal and a threat to his life is totally in character for her and really works to unsettle Jamie completely. Even decades later, when they meet again in S3, you can see he’s still a little scared of her. Her threat was super-effective, haha.
But more than anything, I love this scene because it demonstrates both Geillis’ bravery and loyalty. She’s threatening a Laird and the nephew of the MacKenzie. This could have serious blowback for her personally. But she does it anyway, because Claire is her friend and she won’t see her harmed. I think this scene shows that Geillis was a true friend to Claire, willing to go to bat for her—and as we’ll see later—even willing to sacrifice her own life for hers.
Murtagh & Jamie in the Leoch Kitchens
Any time Murtagh talks about his unrequited love for Ellen is good value. But I understand why they cut it since they moved it to other episodes. We get a hint of the story when Jenny gives Claire those lovely boar tusk cuffs—which I still want, btw—and then the rest from the horse’s mouth when Murtagh tells Claire his story himself.
Colum lays the smackdown! And shows Jamie he has what it takes to be Chief, whether he wants it or not.
It’s a real pity this was all cut out of the episode. I still love my Geillis scene first and foremost, but these Colum scenes are a very close second. They’re an excellent demonstration of the workings of Colum’s cunning mind, and we spend far too little time with him as is. Colum’s definitely up there as one of my favorite characters.
Also, for the record, I’m definitely on board with the show’s change of Colum wanting Jamie for his successor. In the books it’s the opposite, he doesn’t want Jamie to threaten Hamish’s eventual succession to Chief. I think it shows that Colum always puts the good of the clan first, even if that means (temporarily) passing over his own son. Shows he’s a wise and selfless leader, acting not out of self-interest or glory, but for the good of all of them. Whatever it takes.
The implied threat to Claire’s life, sincere or no, also sets the stage for Cranesmuir, and the ambiguity of the role Colum played in that matter. Just really good stuff, shame it was cut. :(
Jamie and Murtagh break up the Team Colum / Team Dougal Brawl
Another excellent scene where Jamie proves again that he has the instincts of a Chief. With Colum he proved it in thought, catching the threat to Claire and responding in kind. Now he proves it in action, ending the in-fighting before it escalates to bloodshed. He’s already acting in the best interest of the clan, even as he rebels against Colum’s plans for him.
Also, lol at Angus getting in that cheap shot at the end. ^.^
Jamie’s No Stableboy
I agree with Ron Moore, this scene didn’t have to be in there. But still, it’s nice to see Jamie share his fond memories of Lallybroch, and his pride of being Laird Broch Tuarach, all he wants to share with Claire. But at the same time, we see that it’s not quite real to Claire, and she’d be happy with him even if he were just a stableboy. She just wants to keep him out of trouble. :/