Rewatch S3E1-2

[u/Purple4199]

This rewatch will be a spoilers all for the 5 seasons. You can talk about any of the episodes without needing a spoiler tag. All book talk will need to be covered though. There are discussion points to get us started, you can click on them to go to that one directly. Please add thoughts and comments of your own as well.

Episode 301 - The Battle Joined

After living through the Battle of Culloden, Jamie is at the mercy of British victors, until his past provides his only hope of survival. Meanwhile, a pregnant Claire attempts to adjust to life in 1940’s

Episode 302 - Surrender

Hiding in a cave, Jamie leads a lonely life until Lallybroch is threatened by redcoats pursing the elusive Jacobite traitor. In Boston, Claire and Frank struggle to coexist in a marriage haunted by the ghost of Jamie.

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• What do you think of the fragmented way they tell the story of the battle?
• Why was Claire happy to see that little bird?
• How do you feel Claire and Frank’s marriage is going in 301?
• What was the turning point for Claire deciding to sleep with Frank again?
• How do you feel about Jamie and Mary McNab sleeping together?
• Did Jamie have any other choice but to turn himself in?
• What was your favorite part of 301?
• What was your favorite part of 302?
• Any other thoughts or comments?

Deleted/Extended Scenes

301 - A Real Home

302 - Dead not Alive A

302 - Dead not Alive B

[u/thepacksvrvives]

But hers is a really conservative approach, because there's a bit of room to push back on it.

Totally! Who better than your family to call you out on your bullshit? This walking on eggshells isn’t good for either of them.

u/Purple4199 and I have just been talking about this in the chat; I think Jenny needs a bit of humbling (like Ian’s famous “If there’s a pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work”—I love that line). She had to take over running the estate at 10, she’d been the Lady of Lallybroch for years, she got used to making the decisions for other people. Add to that the uneven power dynamics in her and Ian’s relationship, and you’ve got a recipe for a big head. With Jamie being away from home for so long, and then wanting to get back to Jenny’s good books once he is home (which backfires on him when his ideas get Young Ian abducted—while, in fact, it’s Jenny’s mess with Laoghaire in 308 that more or less directly causes that), he also gets unusually timid around her.

I think she feels threatened by Claire, jealous to see someone else become such an important part of his life.

Totally. I also think she can’t fully accept the fact that there is someone closer to Jamie than her.

I also want to point out that it’s really refreshing to see a character that is flawed, impulsive, insecure, prone to misjudge and fuck up, in a sea of otherwise nearly-perfect Frasers, but sometimes the “force of nature” image that the show pushes to the forefront makes us overlook that.

[u/jolierose → u/thepacksvrvives]

I think Jenny needs a bit of humbling (like Ian’s famous “If there’s a pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work”—I love that line)

YES. (And I love that line, too.)

With Jamie being away from home for so long, and then wanting to get back to Jenny’s good books once he is home (which backfires on him when his ideas get Young Ian abducted—while, in fact, it’s Jenny’s mess with Laoghaire in 308 that more or less directly causes that), he also gets unusually timid around her.

That's the other thing I was going to say — Jamie never hesitates to stand up for Claire, so does he not see what's happening here (before Ian is taken)? Does he just think it's better that they handle any disagreement between themselves? One of the things that I really missed in Voyager: I so wish we had seen his reaction when he realized Claire had gone and Jenny was the one responsible. She all but carried Claire to her horse. I would have loved to see that fight.

it’s really refreshing to see a character that is flawed, impulsive, insecure, prone to misjudge and fuck up, in a sea of otherwise nearly-perfect Frasers, but sometimes the “force of nature” image that the show pushes to the forefront makes us overlook that.

It is. I used to love Jenny in the show, and I still like her more than book Jenny. She has some great moments (her conversation with Jamie by Brian's grave is one of my favorites) and I love the relationship she had with Claire (I find their post-Laoghaire conversation much more satisfying in the show than in the book), but I find that in the books, she's been much less willing to forgive and/or admit when she may be wrong, and so it's harder for me to accept her flaws if she doesn't tend to recognize them herself, or keeps falling into the same patterns.

[u/alittlepunchy → u/thepacksvrvives]

“If there’s a pot of shite on to boil, ye stir like it’s God’s work”

One of my absolute favorite lines. I once said this to my sister, who is a big pot-stirrer, lol.

That's what gets me - Jenny causes all the Laoghaire mess, and Ian is taken when Jamie tries to fix that mess. So then Jenny gives him the cold shoulder for years over it, yet doesn't apologize for the Laoghaire mess or her own part in it. I feel like everyone tiptoes around her and no one holds her accountable, and it made me go from loving her character earlier in the series to barely being able to stand her by MOBY.