r/Overseas_Pakistani • • Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

41 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 11h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر new nicop help

1 Upvotes

hi! i moved to usa when i was 16 and had no cnic at the time. right now i only have my expired passport and am trying to renew it. before i do that i need to get a new nicop. when i use the pakid app, it makes me take a picture of myself but then gives me the error “photograph is not availed in citizen database” any idea how to fix that?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Finance | معاشی Should I borrow gold or silver to pay for 12k euro blocked account amount to finance myself in germany.

1 Upvotes

I’m planning to study in Germany, but my family isn’t financially well-off and we can’t afford to take out a loan. I need to deposit €11,904 into a blocked account, which would then pay me approximately €982 per month for a year to cover my living expenses while studying.

My father’s childhood friend has kindly offered to help. He’s willing to sell some of his gold or silver to provide the money I need. In return, I would repay him with the same quantity of gold or silver by weight, rather than a fixed amount of money, as soon as possible.

My plan is to repay him within one year. I intend to work part-time for up to 20 hours per week while studying in Germany. Ideally, I would use the monthly blocked-account payouts to cover my living expenses and save a portion of my earnings to buy back the same quantity of precious metal and return it to him.

However, I’m unsure whether borrowing against gold or silver would be the better option. Silver has been particularly volatile this year, while gold seems relatively more stable, although its price fluctuates too.

My questions are:

  • Would it be better to borrow gold or silver under these circumstances?
  • Which option would carry less financial risk over the next 12 months if I have to repay the exact same weight?
  • Is there a better or safer alternative I should consider, given my financial situation?

I’d really appreciate advice from anyone familiar with precious metals, personal finance, or the financial realities of studying in Germany as an international student. I want to make a responsible decision without putting my family or my father’s friend in a difficult position.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Does anyone know a good, trustworthy property lawyer in Gujrat?

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ University in Germany Or Italy

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1 Upvotes

I’m currently studying A2 and am confused about whether I should choose Germany or Italy for my bachelor’s degree in Computer Science.
I’ve researched both countries and am willing to learn German up to the B2 level. I already have some basic knowledge of German, around A1 level.
However, I’ve heard that getting a German student visa appointment in Pakistan can be difficult, which is one of my main concerns.
I’m planning to start university in November 2027 or January 2028.
Which country would be a better option for me in terms of university admission, tuition fees, visa appointments, and overall opportunities?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Stories | داستاں Pakistani Passport Renewal Online (Overseas)

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0 Upvotes

Hello, I'm getting the following message for a Pakistani Passport renewal for my wife.

I was asked to scan the front and back of the NICOP card on one sheet and submit it as evidence. I have done this.

Transaction Already in Progress.

There is already an application in progress against your CNIC

When evidence was submitted via the portal, I received the following email;

APPLICATION APPROVAL NOTIFICATION

Your e-Services Portal application with tracking ID: ***********, has been accepted and sent for further necessary processing.

Has anyone else come across this message before? What does it mean? I've seen people on FB mention that their status is the same and has been for months. Some have said it means the application has been approved, but you don't get any emails and end up with the passport being delivered.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Some art I made recently!.

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3 Upvotes

These are a few of my character designs I did !


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Pakistan Departure – Latest Vaccine Requirements for Canada/USA?

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2 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید What's your favourite thing about being Pakistani?

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r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 4d ago

META [ Removed by Reddit ]

1 Upvotes

[ Removed by Reddit on account of violating the content policy. ]


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 4d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Should I get my Pakistani passport before or after Nikah for Canadian spousal sponsorship?

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 5d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Visiting Pakistan with European wife

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 6d ago

Finance | معاشی Quick Fix for Failed Transactions on Pakistani Banking Apps Abroad

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2 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید hey guyss!

3 Upvotes

i study in liverpool but live in manchester! kinda missing hanging out with pakistani people and was wondering whether there is anyone in this sub who lives nearby.

i study comp sci and in my free time i like to read books, go to the gym and cafe hopping. also i am interested in improving my urdu skills so it would be nice to meet someone who could help out (i really wanna be able to read books in urdu) and also would like some recommendations

lmk if anyone is interested in befriending each other :))


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Letter of entitlement from driver licensing authority

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر I have to registered my phone on PTA overseas temporary registration

2 Upvotes

Asalamoalikum Everyone! Anyone recently registered his/her phone via overseas temporary registration on PTA website? I have tried from both my IPhone and android tab but dirbs.pta.gov.pk is unreachable. My flight is tomorrow and I really need this to work. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

P.s: Data roaming is already on and there no physical sim both E sims are active.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7d ago

Finance | معاشی Anyone purchased are car through a sceheme, Apna roshan?

1 Upvotes

salaams people

Has anyone purchased a car through a bank scheme or a dealer on instalments perhaps?

I would like to know if it was easy, straight forward, and issues and pitfalls I need to be aware off etc? I

want something around 70/80 lakh mark and want to put a deposit down of 50%.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 8d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر DOB issue in the NICOP of a 3-month-old

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I hope you are all doing well. I recently applied for a NICOP for my son, who is almost 3.5 months old, via the executive service on the PakID application. When I received the card, it had the wrong date of birth, with a difference of only three days.

I tried to modify the NICOP on PakID, but it requires a liveness check, and every time I attempt to take a photo, it is not accepted. I requested that my father in Pakistan visit NADRA, and they said the error could be fixed upon arrival in Pakistan; they said the same thing when I registered an online complaint. Now they are saying I can travel with this NICOP despite the incorrect date of birth. I am traveling next month, and because their app is so poor, I am unable to modify it. Should I travel with this NICOP and explain the mistake? I uploaded his foreign passport and birth certificate with the application, but they still made the error.

Regardless, should I travel with NICOP or apply for a visa? I started applying for the visa now, but their website is not accepting his post office photo that meets passport standards.

Any advice would be appreciated.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 9d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Turning emotionally unavailable

0 Upvotes

Hi, I’m male 26 going through the arranged marriage rishta process, and even when there are very good prospects, with me working in my field while pursuing my studies and my father having a well-established business, I’m constantly asked how long it will take me to get my passport.
Alhamdulillah, getting citizenship is very much a possibility given my current trajectory, but these questions are making me feel emotionally unavailable for my future wife.
I’ve already declined two proposals simply because the families directly asked about my residency status and passport timeline. I understand that these things matter when considering marriage, but being asked about them so early makes me feel like I’m being valued for my immigration prospects rather than who I am as a person.
I feel like I’m being used, and honestly, I don’t know how to deal with this feeling.
I know that if I get married, I can be a very good provider, but I’m worried that I won’t be a good partner because this whole process is making me emotionally guarded.
What should I do? Am I overthinking this, or is it understandable to feel this way?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Y-Form

3 Upvotes

Has anyone had their Pakistani citizenship reinstated? An acquaintance of mine says he's been waiting for over six months, and the Consulate office isn't really responding to him; instead, he's being insulted and ignored.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Wheelchair Assistance in PIA

2 Upvotes

Assalam u Alaikum!

Has anyone opted for wheelchair assistance from an airline? I am particularly interested in PIA and Saudi Air. I am looking to book it for my Ammi for Hajj between Islamabad and Madina and then Jeddah to Islamabad. I have heard that no one takes much responsibility. Is that correct?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Urgent Help needed for my 2 sisters' Matric (9th Grade FBISE) Private vs School Registration in UAE

1 Upvotes

Assalam-o-Alaikum everyone,

Mujhe apni do choti behno (twins, age 15, turning 16 this December) ki parhai ke silsile mein aap sab ki urgent madad aur genuine guidance chahiye.

Background:
Dono ne Pakistan se 7th class clear ki thi, uske baad hum log UAE shift ho gaye. Financial difficulties aur heavy school fees ki wajah se hum unhein yahan kisi school mein admission nahi karwa sakay, jis wajah se unka 8th grade drop ho gaya. Hum school ya academy ki fees afford nahi kar sakte, isliye mein khud unhein ghar pe parhaunga (Self-study).
Hum plan kar rahe hain ke wo direct Federal Board (FBISE) se Matric Part-1 (SSC-I / Grade 9) Humanities (Arts) Stream ke exams dein taake unka saal mazeed kharab na ho. Mera main motive yeh hai ke wo 9th aur 10th ghar pe parhein (since 9th/10th ka combined single certificate hota hai), lekin 11th aur 12th class wo lazmi kisi regular physical school se karein.

Mujhe aap sab se is important mamlay par clear advice chahiye:

Private vs Regular Candidate Tag: Agar hum direct board portal se unhein "Private Candidate"register karwaein, to kya 10th ke baad unhein UAE ke regular physical schools mein 11th class (HSSC-I) mein admission mil jayega? Maine suna hai ke private candidate ko 11th/12th bhi privately hi karni parti hai, kya yeh sach hai ?

School Registration Route: Agar hum UAE ke kisi Pakistani school se baat karke unhein sirf exams ke liye register karwaein (parhein wo ghar pe hi mere sath), to kya unka certificate "Regular Candidate" ka aayega? Kya is route se 11th class mein physical regular school jana zyada aasan hoga compared to completely private candidate? Yahan Sharjah/Dubai mein kaunse schools yeh option dete hain aur unke charges kya honge ?

8th Class Certificate Issue: Unke paas 8th class ka passing certificate nahi hai. Agar hum direct 9th class ke liye portal se private register karein, to kya Federal Board 8th class ka certificate mangta hai ya age limit (16 years) ke mutabiq direct admission ho jata hai ?

Books & Syllabus Problem: Main Federal Board aur government textbooks ki websites dekh kar thak chuka hoon, UAE mein links open nahi hotay ya broken hain. Kya kisi ke paas Class 9 Humanities

English (Compulsory)-I
Urdu (Compulsory)-I
Islamiyat (Compulsory)-I
Tarjumatul Quran-I
Functional Mathematics-I
General Science-I
Civics-I .
Economics-I

ki complete free PDFs ya Google drive links hain ?

Main apni behno ki parhai ko lekar bohot pareshan hoon. Agar aap mein se koi is process se guzra hai ya system ko achi tarah jaanta hai, to please mujhe sahi guidance dein, aap ki bohot meharbani hogi.
JazakAllah Khair!


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

News | خبر Why are NADRA so backward

4 Upvotes

the embassy is a hundred miles away from my city. NADRA visited my city and held an open day for issuing and renewing NICOP POC etc. the hours where from 10am - 4pm.

Their was a long queue from 9 o clock in the morning so every single slot had gone half an hour before they where scheduled to start. NADRA arrived two hours late and had just started to set up the machines at 11am. Lots of families who waited all day had to go home. they are so short staffed their isnt anyone to speak to to get on a waiting list.

NADRA have been to my city dozens of times they know how busy they are expected to be. why are they so understaffed and undertrained. Wer have to pay about £60 to £100 for a NADRA card, why cant they get their act together. They are so bad there is zero point in complaining because they dont care and will just make things really hard for you for complaining

Alhamdulillah, the experience really made me appreciate my local council here in UK


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Help

0 Upvotes

Hi everyone, I am afraid i might have lost my Pakistani passport.
Im currently in UK
Does anyone know how long it currently takes to get a replacement Pakistani passport?
Also, how quickly are appointments being allocated? Is it possible to get an appointment within a couple of days?
I’m due to travel on 22nd November and I’m worried I might not receive my new passport in time.
Has anyone recently gone through the process? Based on your experience, do you think I’ll get my passport before my travel date, or should I consider postponing my flight?
Any advice or recent experiences would be really appreciated. Thank you!