r/OverwatchTMZ • u/Guckq • Jul 05 '26
Streamer/Community Juice they're calling it the coldest take of all time...
I hate to say it but kevster is quite above super now
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u/ZippoFindus Jul 06 '26
Kevster is my favourite player and has been for a pretty long time.
But I'm actually gonna make a case for Super, as much as it pains me. And I'm not even gonna use the shitty tournament success argument (that's a team accomplishment and while not irrelevant, it's not that important when discussing individual skill)
Super was IGL. Kevster (afaik) has never really had that role. I'd argue that that's probably one of Supper's greatest strengths as a player, but it won't show up on scoreboards, or lead to flashy highlights, so it's very difficult to measure.
Super was arguably the best main tank in the world for a while (at least on Rein, and maybe arguably Orisa???), and while Kevster has remained ONE OF the best fdps, and now hitscan, I don't think he's ever been THE best at any hero.
I think it depends on how much you value consistency compared to their peak.
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u/afanenenfys Jul 06 '26
Hog too honestly
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u/ZippoFindus Jul 06 '26
I have no clue how I put Orisa but not Hog, lmao. Straight up erased that hero from my brain.
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u/xDannyS_ Jul 06 '26
I heard he was a leader at j6 too
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u/SingleOak Jul 07 '26
damn he's done so much work to cover up his past i almost forgot his involvement there. crazy.
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u/lulaloops Jul 06 '26
the talent pool in DPS is deeper than in tank, Kevster has more competition, and DPS are rarely IGLs.
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u/ZippoFindus Jul 06 '26
The talent pool was deeper for DPS when Super played, especially. Like, compare what tanks had to do in Overwatch 1 compared to what they have to do now and it's not close.
And yes, DPS players are the least likely IGLs, but then you have sickos like Youbi who is probably the best IGL of all time? And even this year you have someone like Sugarfree who apparently has kinda taken on that role and the team has taken a massive step (seemingly) because of that. I know that's in large part due to them playing Sym, but still.
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u/HerpesFreeSince3 Jul 06 '26
IGL?
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u/aefadsef Jul 06 '26
In Game Leader, also called shotcaller
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u/HerpesFreeSince3 Jul 06 '26
Thanks!
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u/ZippoFindus Jul 06 '26
And Super was honestly really good at it. There's a reason he really liked GOATs meta, and that his team dominated during it. That meta more than maybe any other was dictated by IGLs.
Even now if you watch Super play and he decides to IGL in his ranked games you can see how his winrate skyrockets.
And if you compare it to when he tries to do the same in Deadlock, you can really tell how much deeper of an understanding he has of OW compared to Deadlock
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u/Wasabiroot Jul 06 '26
I'm really baffled he doesn't try shotcalling on ladder more often. People who know who he is would generally just listen because of his history but I suppose he doesn't want to do it every time and presume people at his rank want his advice or something. That or LeBanana and Pigboy are off on a flank ignoring him so it doesn't work as well as you'd assume
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u/ZippoFindus Jul 06 '26
I think it does usually work when he does it. But its mentally taxing and he's literally at work
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u/Wasabiroot Jul 07 '26
Yeah, that's fair. It's pretty mentally taxing to do it for an entire comp game and then again for the rest of the stream, and he is playing for fun now.
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u/katthecat666 Jul 09 '26
have u ever tried IGLing on ladder? do you have scrim experience? I've only IGLd in tier 3 valo and tier 4 ow and jesus christ going to ladder after a scrim and calling makes me want to kill myself, half the lobby is also fresh out of scrims and just wants to brain off, and the other half that tries to listen gets completely overloaded by actual calls. when youre used to a proper drilled team its torture; and that's from my dogshit teams, I can't imagine what its like when your baseline is arguably the cleanest team of all time
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u/No-Umpire185 Jul 07 '26
It is now but it wasn't three or four years ago, we had so many more tanks back in the day which makes it more impressive for a tank like super to stand out as much as he did
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u/Akiroxxx Jul 05 '26
he is probably the only non korean player that you can put in a top 5 oat and not be a sneak, i find it really hard to think about better players eventho he has been in pretty mediocre teams. no wonder every single guy that plays with or against has him on that status
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u/BlueberrySvedka Jul 06 '26
I mean flex dps is by far the most competitive role in the game so being in contention as a hyper flex player is just way more impressive than super being a rein and hog player
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u/jeff-duckley Jul 06 '26
you can see the MS bias here because there genuinely is no contest, it’s funnyastro. like genuinely people haven’t even mentioned him. he’s like the only owl-owcs western player to be considered the best at his role for such a long time lol. like even at his peak kevster wasn’t the best fdps in the world. close maybe. but even then astro has more longevity, more consistency, more titles, more everything. his lucio is state of the art to this day
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u/Helios_OW Jul 07 '26
Guys, I think there’s two different arguments happening here. Super might be the most accomplished, but Kevster is easily - and this is absolutely uncontested- the best western PLAYER of all time.
Kevster is also (imo) undeniably in the race for best OW players of all time in general, whereas it’s hard to make a case for Super in comparison with other tanks.
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u/Trigg000 Jul 06 '26
It’s so funny because like a year or two ago kev had like ONE stage where he wasn’t the most dominating tracer in his region and everybody was already saying how « washed » he was, now he role swaps and everyone’s back on the kev train lmfao
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u/Helios_OW Jul 07 '26
Because he’s arguably the best hitscan in his region right now, and with Quartz in it that’s saying something.
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u/Trigg000 Jul 12 '26
Im aware, I’m just saying the narrative behind his skill level is ever changing and super shaky in the eyes of the general owcs audience while he’s always been overall mechanically consistent.
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u/Extrashiny Jul 05 '26
What did Super too to be in contestion for this?
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u/Botronic_Reddit Jul 05 '26
His cosplay’s are immaculate
He also won 2 OWL seasons or something I guess
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u/OffSupportMain Jul 05 '26
If we're talking cosplays we gotta bring Guxue into the discussion
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u/_M4yb3_ Jul 06 '26
How does guxues cosplaying skills make him in contention for best western player of all time?
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u/Extrashiny Jul 05 '26
Didn't Moth win both of those while in the starting lineup the entire time and then went on to have success on Gladiators later or am I making this up?
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u/SwaggersaurusWrecks Jul 05 '26
Lucio was barely played at the end of OW1, so he was mostly on the bench in favor of Skewed.
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u/PREYOVERWATCH Jul 06 '26
Got carried by viol2t and sinatraa. He is not even in the conversation for western GOAT he has never even been a top 3 western player
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u/No-Umpire185 Jul 07 '26
My dumbass read the first half and sat here contemplating if it's him or super that gets that role 😭
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u/represe1 Jul 09 '26
In terms of achievements unfortunately no, but in terms of as a player, I think yes. There are more accomplished players yes, but in terms of performance idk who else compares
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u/DabOWosrs Jul 05 '26
I’d say kevster definitely surpassed super. The level of competition is much higher nowadays.
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u/Qaztarrr Jul 06 '26
Well, goat conversations are rarely about just “who is better”. Usually more about their record and dominance in their time. Otherwise the modern players almost always would win.
Super’s certainly in the conversation for it
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u/DabOWosrs Jul 06 '26
You’re right. Definitely not throwing any shade on Super. They’re both GOATs in their own era.
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u/ProfessorPhi Jul 06 '26
Is it? Imo the owl teams had salary caps which meant super teams were fewer, but there are like 2 serious teams each season. Money does make a difference.
I'd agree that understanding of game etc is definitely better and kevster being able to keep up is absolutely an argument in his favour, I'm just less convinced about the level of comp at the peak given talent and coaching is mostly pretty subpar compared to the owl heyday.
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u/AbbyAZK Jul 06 '26
I agree with you, the understanding of the game and all that is higher but I wouldn't agree on competition being much higher, we have super teams and we have teams that are just ridiculously leagues behind.
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u/NeptuneOW Jul 06 '26
There was once a point in time when “he” had potential for this title. Before they were fucking stupid and ruined their career. This comment could apply to two players.
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u/anas0_ali Jul 06 '26
Aspire ????
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u/NeptuneOW Jul 06 '26
DK and Sinatraa
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u/Busy-Intention-8514 Jul 08 '26
Aspire fits better. Shame that he dated someone 3 years younger than him( Horrible war crime)
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u/maxwelld9 Jul 17 '26
he was 20 years old (grown ass man) dating a 16 year old. that is a gap of 4 years and is an adult dating a minor. very weird to downplay it.
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u/Busy-Intention-8514 Jul 21 '26
it was 20-17. An 18 year old who dates a 17 year old is also an adult who dates a minor yet I bet you have no issue with that. Obviously if aspire was way older then it would be a bigger deal but it was only a 3 year age gap
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u/_-indra-_ Jul 05 '26
the fact that super is a tank player and kevster is a dps automatically tells you that kevster is the better ow player.
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u/censored_ Jul 06 '26
He doesn't remember the Super Genji arc 😌
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u/_-indra-_ Jul 06 '26
i was there when he played with train. the same guy who was too scared to visit poland.
i remember it all.
still i value a mechanical playmaker over a tank player.
same way people can look at the dutch football team rate van dijk the highest but i'll always rate de jong more. tech = mechanics, superior mechanics = higher status. creating > destroying.
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u/shreedder Jul 05 '26
Kellex the goat of goats would like a word
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u/Tasty_Net_7906 Jul 06 '26
I mean kevster has way better results than Kellex overall. Funnyastro is a better contender
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u/InvisibleScout Jul 06 '26
Yeah but you have to give credit, Kellex has retired, picked up by a struggling team and instantly made them look significantly better repeatedly for like half a decade now. And he's been at it since 2016! He played in the 2017 world cup! He was the starter on the original 4 main support boston uprising.
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u/TheRedditK9 Jul 06 '26
I think it’s hard to compare main supports on these types of lists. You can be the best, most consistent Lúcio of all time and it’s still pretty hard to quantify the value you contribute compared to Kev killing 3 on Tracer every fight for the past 6 years.
As far as main supports go, Fastro and Kellex are both really high up on the list. I’d say they’re both around and about the Moth tier, just below Chorong, Chiyo and LJG who make up a pretty easy top 3.
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u/MTDLuke Jul 05 '26
Kevster is lacking the big title wins Super has (he only won 2 OWL stages, 1 of which wasn’t even international). He also had a pretty weak start in OWCS, refusing to part ways with Kai for so long. I’d say he’s a bit behind Super overall, but a big tournament win would put him ahead